Russell Martin

[SWLondon Saint]

If you want to see how much we're underperforming, have a look at the Opta predictions for now compared to the start of the season.

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2024/10/premier-league-predictions-2024-25-opta-supercomputer-october

Back in August before the Premier League 2024-25 season had kicked off, the Opta supercomputer made Saints favourites for the drop to the Championship (66.7%) and based on their performances so far, it’s now even more confident in that decision (90.7%).

The prediction pre-season is based largely on squad strength / player profile. We've underperformed our predicted points up to now by NINE points. Looking at other teams, we're 1.5x as bad as Ipswich and 2x as bad as Leicester (based on relegation odds).

You can't still think the manager has nothing to do with this? 

[Farmer Saint]

26 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

If you want to see how much we're underperforming, have a look at the Opta predictions for now compared to the start of the season.

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2024/10/premier-league-predictions-2024-25-opta-supercomputer-october

Back in August before the Premier League 2024-25 season had kicked off, the Opta supercomputer made Saints favourites for the drop to the Championship (66.7%) and based on their performances so far, it’s now even more confident in that decision (90.7%).

The prediction pre-season is based largely on squad strength / player profile. We've underperformed our predicted points up to now by NINE points. Looking at other teams, we're 1.5x as bad as Ipswich and 2x as bad as Leicester (based on relegation odds).

You can't still think the manager has nothing to do with this? 

I don't think anyone is saying the Manager has nothing to do with this? What we're saying is that it's unlikely we'll be able to get a Manager in who's good enough to drastically improve our chances.

[Dman]

28 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

TBF Jones had a better team than Martin, and I think as an actual side we've looked better under Martin than Jones - but that's irrelevant - different teams and different players.

I think we have 0 chance of staying up anyway - I said that at the beginning of last season that any foray into the PL will lead to absolute relegation due to PSR and our inability to bring in PL quality players with the resulting transfer fee and ( more importantly) wage inhibitors.

There may be someone who can keep us up, but if there is I very much doubt he'll be interested in coming to us. Even decent Championship Managers want nothing to do with us (Corberan for instance) as it is a bloody nightmare trying to compete in the Premier League with a Championship quality team and wage budget.

 

Again, id strongly dissagree. 

Keeper is miles better, like beyond belief how much of an upgrade ramsdale is to Bazunu. 

Defence is on par. Quality wise, clearly Salisu is better than anything we have now, but he didn't want to be here and was half arsed. As is Tino, but he was injured. 

Midfield was arguably a fair bit stronger with JWP, Romeu, Lavia, Stu etc. who'd all walk into our side now but our current midfield is no way 'less than 12 points' kinda bad. 

I think its pretty much universally agreed that Fernandes is an upgrade on Alcaraz, who was seen as one of (if not the) best players in that side. 

Che was obviously a focal point that we miss, but besides that, we had Sulemana and Tall Paul - both still here and lets be honest, Che wasn't up to standard anyway. 

 

[Dman]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I don't think anyone is saying the Manager has nothing to do with this? What we're saying is that it's unlikely we'll be able to get a Manager in who's good enough to drastically improve our chances.

I'm not sure what your arguement is, if i'm honest. 

One one hand it sounds like you're agreeing he should be sacked and on the other you're saying (by suggesting we couldn't do better) we shouldn't? 

Keir Starmer, is that you? 

[Farmer Saint]

24 minutes ago, Dman said:

I'm not sure what your arguement is, if i'm honest. 

One one hand it sounds like you're agreeing he should be sacked and on the other you're saying (by suggesting we couldn't do better) we shouldn't? 

Keir Starmer, is that you? 

I'm saying he should go as he's extremely divisive amongst the fan base and if we need anything to help galvanise us it's the fans. What I am also saying is not to expect anything particularly better - the Managers we are picking from are not good. There is no argument here - we're a very poor team in a strong league with a poor PL Manager. Not much to say here.

Edited October 18 by Farmer Saint

[Farmer Saint]

28 minutes ago, Dman said:

Again, id strongly dissagree. 

Keeper is miles better, like beyond belief how much of an upgrade ramsdale is to Bazunu. 

Defence is on par. Quality wise, clearly Salisu is better than anything we have now, but he didn't want to be here and was half arsed. As is Tino, but he was injured. 

Midfield was arguably a fair bit stronger with JWP, Romeu, Lavia, Stu etc. who'd all walk into our side now but our current midfield is no way 'less than 12 points' kinda bad. 

I think its pretty much universally agreed that Fernandes is an upgrade on Alcaraz, who was seen as one of (if not the) best players in that side. 

Che was obviously a focal point that we miss, but besides that, we had Sulemana and Tall Paul - both still here and lets be honest, Che wasn't up to standard anyway. 

 

GK is better, hasn't looked great though tbh - although sitting behind this defence I'm not surprised.

Defence is far worse. Bednarek has never been a PL quality defender, nor has Stephens and we're also seeing why Kompany decided against signing Harwood-Bellis. Sugawara seems decent going forward, but suspect defensively. KWP has started awfully. I would much prefer a back 4 of 2022 KWP, Salisu, ABK and Perraud.

Midfield yeah, 2022 shits on this midfield so let's ignore that.

Striker - would prefer Che up top to Ross, although think Archer could come good. Let's call that one a draw.

Edited October 18 by Farmer Saint

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

All the season ticket holders who sit near me all think he’s an onion.

Head scratching every game.

If we lose to Leicester I hope the fans vent their feelings loudly, not just scratch their heads!

[Mr X]

12 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

If we lose to Leicester I hope the fans vent their feelings loudly, not just scratch their heads!

We normally just lamely accept our fate..... Tis the English way 😂

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Oldandtired said:

And a massive two fingers stuck up to the fans. I paid out nearly £600, a huge percentage of my yearly disposable income being a pensioner, for a season ticket on the premise that we would at least give it a go this season. That season ticket was not sold to me as a spectator to one man’s vanity project, to watch him gloat about having the best stats for keeping possession in our own penalty area or whatever. 
 

To those who defend him, in my opinion you are defending the indefensible. The only thing bigger than his ineptitude is his ego….or perhaps his ability to bullsh*t.

Exactly. My support comes with a precondition of trying to win a game. I don’t want to be a part of Egohead’s vanity project.

[SambaMaverick]

Russell doing the media rounds this week - Sky Sports, Football Focus

Just shut the fuck up and deliver mate! We're not interested in your come-and-get-me plea to a bigger club

[Wade Garrett]

51 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

If we lose to Leicester I hope the fans vent their feelings loudly, not just scratch their heads!

Really difficult to slag the manager when you’re trying to get behind the team.

Hopefully we win tomorrow.  But if it’s more of the same, I think the crowd will turn on the manager.

[saintant]

8 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

Russell doing the media rounds this week - Sky Sports, Football Focus

Just shut the fuck up and deliver mate! We're not interested in your come-and-get-me plea to a bigger club

I'm not sure even he thinks a bigger club is going to come in for him.

[SambaMaverick]

An absolutely unhinged 40 seconds, doesn't make sense to me at all. More concerned with losing his half-baked style than losing probably 30 games this season.

[SambaMaverick]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

I'm not sure even he thinks a bigger club is going to come in for him.

He's fallen upwards twice already, clearly needs to have his wings clipped a bit if he's to come back down to earth

[Miltonaggro]

5 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

An absolutely unhinged 40 seconds, doesn't make sense to me at all. More concerned with losing his half-baked style than losing probably 30 games this season.

Emotional rescue...

[Jack]

5 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

An absolutely unhinged 40 seconds, doesn't make sense to me at all. More concerned with losing his half-baked style than losing probably 30 games this season.

Someone needs to ask him exactly what happened in the playoffs, and why, and what the outcome was. 
 

And then someone else needs to fire him. 

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, Jack said:

Someone needs to ask him exactly what happened in the playoffs, and why, and what the outcome was. 
 

And then someone else needs to fire him. 

We got exactly the same outcomes against the same teams earlier in the season.

[Jack]

3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

We got exactly the same outcomes against the same teams earlier in the season.

Are you saying he didn’t change our approach in the playoffs? 

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, Jack said:

Are you saying he didn’t change our approach in the playoffs? 

No. He’s recognised that himself. I’m saying it’s an odd argument to make considering our results with the other approach were also good.

Edited October 18 by Fabrice29

[SambaMaverick]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

No. He’s recognised that himself. I’m saying it’s an odd argument to make considering our results with the other approach were also good. 

Yet not good enough for automatic promotion or to finish ahead of Leeds, and the results are certainly not good enough now in the Premier League.

Edited October 18 by SambaMaverick

[SouSaint]

17 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

An absolutely unhinged 40 seconds, doesn't make sense to me at all. More concerned with losing his half-baked style than losing probably 30 games this season.

Vanity project.

[Dark Munster]

15 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

We got exactly the same outcomes against the same teams earlier in the season.

He changed his Russball against Leeds earlier in the season as well. It was after 4 consecutive appalling performances/defeats so his hand was forced then too.

[AlexLaw76]

28 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

An absolutely unhinged 40 seconds, doesn't make sense to me at all. More concerned with losing his half-baked style than losing probably 30 games this season.

He is losing it

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

He changed his Russball against Leeds earlier in the season as well. It was after 4 consecutive appalling performances/defeats so his hand was forced then too.

What people really mean when they say he should/did change is win. Sometimes that has/will coincide with slightly less possession which is a really easy go to statistic to point and say ‘look, he changed’. Sometimes it doesn’t coincide with that though. 

[coalman]

40 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

An absolutely unhinged 40 seconds, doesn't make sense to me at all. More concerned with losing his half-baked style than losing probably 30 games this season.

Say what you like about the man. That interview is brave to say the least. Extra bonus points for his primary goal to remain as Saints manager at the end of the season rather than not getting relegated.

[SWLondon Saint]

35 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

That basically says he puts his ego and his 'method' above results, the club, and the players.

It also just shows how...well, limited he is in imagination and intellect frankly. I imagine most of us on here have worked for a variety of managers and many have also managed. Who on earth goes into any project / job saying this is the way we have to do it, regardless of the budget, personnel, facts on the ground or difficulties on the way? He's just out of his depth and posturing when he should be studying and learning from the best. It's actually pretty sad.

[Wade Garrett]

46 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

An absolutely unhinged 40 seconds, doesn't make sense to me at all. More concerned with losing his half-baked style than losing probably 30 games this season.

The owner needs to sack him on that alone.  Absolutely fucking mental.

[Bad Wolf]

7 hours ago, Dman said:

He has no track record of being anything other than remotely average everywhere he's been. Promotion last season was an anomaly. He had the better of Farke last season so credit where its due for that but other than that, we beat everyone we should have beat. 

And? So what you're saying is that he did the job that was expected of him?

Interesting that Leeds fans are still backing their manager despite doing even worse than us with a slightly better squad.

 

[Dark Munster]

8 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

The owner needs to sack him on that alone.  Absolutely fucking mental.

And not just him, also everyone on the board who is still backing him. Rasmus being the ringleader. 

[Oldandtired]

19 minutes ago, coalman said:

Say what you like about the man. That interview is brave to say the least. Extra bonus points for his primary goal to remain as Saints manager at the end of the season rather than not getting relegated.

He won't and we will.

Edited October 18 by Oldandtired

[Badger]

1 hour ago, SambaMaverick said:

An absolutely unhinged 40 seconds, doesn't make sense to me at all. More concerned with losing his half-baked style than losing probably 30 games this season.

More importantly let's see if the Board change their plans ...

[Gloucester Saint]

25 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

That basically says he puts his ego and his 'method' above results, the club, and the players.

It also just shows how...well, limited he is in imagination and intellect frankly. I imagine most of us on here have worked for a variety of managers and many have also managed. Who on earth goes into any project / job saying this is the way we have to do it, regardless of the budget, personnel, facts on the ground or difficulties on the way? He's just out of his depth and posturing when he should be studying and learning from the best. It's actually pretty sad.

Talk about him not reading the room. All the fanbase cares about is three points vs Leicester. We couldn’t give a flying fuck if THB, JB and JS have a 50-strong passing string between them progressing us 5 yards up the pitch to meet ball possession targets. 

[Gloucester Saint]

14 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

And not just him, also everyone on the board who is still backing him. Rasmus being the ringleader. 

Agree, but not sure most of the fanbase understands how much Rasmus has been at the root of the club’s rapid decline, compared to Les Reed or Rupert Lowe. At least the latter two did have some successes to point to. 

[Toussaint]

4 hours ago, saintant said:

Just watched part 1 of the press conference. Near the end RM seemed to be intimating that those in charge are not too bothered about results and it's more about sticking with the process. He said something along the lines of the perception inside the building being totally different when Adam Blackmore asked about how the club stop the noises about his position being under threat. This is a worrying attitude from those running the club.

Which confirms my feeling that there are no footballing  people above Russell and they are therefore blindsided by his bullshit. 

[Harry_SFC]

5 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Which confirms my feeling that there are no footballing  people above Russell and they are therefore blindsided by his bullshit. 

I do have this nagging feeling that the club will stick with Martin no matter what this season. 

[Miltonaggro]

4 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Agree, but not sure most of the fanbase understands how much Rasmus has been at the root of the club’s rapid decline, compared to Les Reed or Rupert Lowe. At least the latter two did have some successes to point to. 

For me the worst thing is that it seems avoidable.  Solak to his credit has put serious money into the club in earnest and on a different level to previous Boards, staggered that he seems willing to let these chancers continue to throw the dice on his investment.  All they needed to do when they came in was stabilise, whether that was by backing the beleaguered Hassenhutl or replacing him with someone credible - £50 odd million in that 'Rasmus' window alone with an atrocious return should have seen the fraud off in May 23!  It's clear to a majority of Saints fans who attend the games, away fans, and most of the ex-pro pundits in the media that Martin is out of his depth and drowning, a win against 15th place Leicester isn't going to change that.    

[Gloucester Saint]

7 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

For me the worst thing is that it seems avoidable.  Solak to his credit has put serious money into the club in earnest and on a different level to previous Boards, staggered that he seems willing to let these chancers continue to throw the dice on his investment.  All they needed to do when they came in was stabilise, whether that was by backing the beleaguered Hassenhutl or replacing him with someone credible - £50 odd million in that 'Rasmus' window alone with an atrocious return should have seen the fraud off in May 23!  It's clear to a majority of Saints fans who attend the games, away fans, and most of the ex-pro pundits in the media that Martin is out of his depth and drowning, a win against 15th place Leicester isn't going to change that.    

Agree with much of this. Would make sense for SR to have an overall DoF with top leagues experience and expand the leadership group so that Rasmus and Kraft are outvoted and outnumbered. 

Edited October 18 by Gloucester Saint

[derry]

If Russell Martin thinks he's discovered the holy grail in football tactics he's a bigger fool than I thought he was. What I don't get is his comments about his own tactics stating he's not going to change then reveals that we have been studying and preparing for the opposition all week. Those two statements just don't make any sense together. Quite how a team can prepare to meet the opposition it's studying in detail then play the same way every week is contradictory. No wonder he's forever moaning that they prepared meticulously but the preparation was ignored. The art of football management is firstly picking a team where the players complement and blend whilst covering for deficiencies. He's never done that.

His team selection tomorrow will demonstrate if he's learned anything at all about Leicester attacking on the break.

[lambtiss]

20 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

I do have this nagging feeling that the club will stick with Martin no matter what this season. 

I know exactly what you mean, but I think he will be sacked before the next international real if results don’t improve 

[Farmer Saint]

15 minutes ago, derry said:

If Russell Martin thinks he's discovered the holy grail in football tactics he's a bigger fool than I thought he was. What I don't get is his comments about his own tactics stating he's not going to change then reveals that we have been studying and preparing for the opposition all week. Those two statements just don't make any sense together. Quite how a team can prepare to meet the opposition it's studying in detail then play the same way every week is contradictory. No wonder he's forever moaning that they prepared meticulously but the preparation was ignored. The art of football management is firstly picking a team where the players complement and blend whilst covering for deficiencies. He's never done that.

His team selection tomorrow will demonstrate if he's learned anything at all about Leicester attacking on the break.

So what team selection should he use to demonstrate he has learnt?

[derry]

I wouldn't be surprised if Dragan Solak isn't running out of patience with the whole scheme. How much has he spent reinforcing this team plus retaining Onuachu and Sulemana? This is a much stronger squad than last season yet is no nearer to a settled starting team.

[Farmer Saint]

8 minutes ago, derry said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Dragan Solak isn't running out of patience with the whole scheme. How much has he spent reinforcing this team plus retaining Onuachu and Sulemana? This is a much stronger squad than last season yet is no nearer to a settled starting team.

And it's only now top of table Championship quality - we did well to get promoted last season.

[derry]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

So what team selection should he use to demonstrate he has learnt?

Playing target man Onuachu with Archer and Dibling in a front three.  Sugawara, THB, Bednarek, Taylor. back four. 

[derry]

3 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

And it's only now top of table Championship quality - we did well to get promoted last season.

We got promoted through the playoffs because we dropped the suicidal passing at the back, moved the ball quicker and were more direct. Let in fewer goals and scored more including the Leeds game at the end of the season.

[Farmer Saint]

21 minutes ago, derry said:

Playing target man Onuachu with Archer and Dibling in a front three.  Sugawara, THB, Bednarek, Taylor. back four. 

How is that helping to counteract attacking on the break?

[Farmer Saint]

18 minutes ago, derry said:

We got promoted through the playoffs because we dropped the suicidal passing at the back, moved the ball quicker and were more direct. Let in fewer goals and scored more including the Leeds game at the end of the season.

I'm aware of that - not sure what that has to do with the quality of the team.

[Badger]

5 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm saying he should go as he's extremely divisive amongst the fan base and if we need anything to help galvanise us it's the fans. What I am also saying is not to expect anything particularly better - the Managers we are picking from are not good. There is no argument here - we're a very poor team in a strong league with a poor PL Manager. Not much to say here.

Is he though, apart from on the message boards of course ? I haven’t detected too much hostility or backlash at games. Might change tomorrow though.

If you look back though, most managers weren’t universally popular, and could be described as ‘dividing opinion’, even Lawrie in his early years. Not making a comparison between RM and Lawrie by the way. 

[Oldandtired]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

So what team selection should he use to demonstrate he has learnt?

One that basically has the balls to turn round and say Russell you don't know what you're doing and we're not going to play your crap brand of football anymore.

Surely as professional footballers with aspirations they must be as embarrassed by what they're being asked to do as most fans are. They must surely see it's not working.

If only.

Edited October 18 by Oldandtired

[Dusic]

2 hours ago, derry said:

If Russell Martin thinks he's discovered the holy grail in football tactics he's a bigger fool than I thought he was. What I don't get is his comments about his own tactics stating he's not going to change then reveals that we have been studying and preparing for the opposition all week. Those two statements just don't make any sense together. Quite how a team can prepare to meet the opposition it's studying in detail then play the same way every week is contradictory. No wonder he's forever moaning that they prepared meticulously but the preparation was ignored. The art of football management is firstly picking a team where the players complement and blend whilst covering for deficiencies. He's never done that.

His team selection tomorrow will demonstrate if he's learned anything at all about Leicester attacking on the break.

I think we have actually changed a lot game to game this season, usually to our detriment and would actually have been better if we had more consistency in selection and team shape.

I know that doesn't fit with your prevailing view but do you genuinely think we have done the same thing each week?

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, SambaMaverick said:

An absolutely unhinged 40 seconds, doesn't make sense to me at all. More concerned with losing his half-baked style than losing probably 30 games this season.

We’re doomed.