Russell Martin

[badgerx16]

  On 14/10/2024 at 08:43, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

I’m a bit surprised really how so many are taking this seriously - posted a few minutes before RM’s charity match as he was “on the way out” of the dressing room and onto the pitch.

Surely the poster was on a wind-up or he was stitched up by his “source” 😁

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  On 14/10/2024 at 09:14, tdmickey3 said:

Correct it was Farmer Saint and he has mostly nonsense info.

We are stuck with the clown 😬

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Everything I posted was accurate, the timing was coincidental - I had just hung up a phone call during which I had been told what a first team squad member had said. I know the connection between the person I had spoken to and the player, and trust my 'source' to not be on a wind up.

NB, I didn't say it would be today, Farmer said HE would find out more today - but I have no knowledge of Farmer or his contacts.

 

Best stay clear of the CoT thread if I were you.

[Oldandtired]

  On 14/10/2024 at 09:22, badgerx16 said:

 

 

Best stay clear of the CoT thread if I were you.

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Ah, the good old Coven of Twats.

[Graffito]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/oct/14/is-it-naive-for-a-promoted-side-to-play-possession-football-in-the-premier-league?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

When we win, the game model seems good and is not questioned. But bear in mind, we won’t always win. Then doubts will come. That is the moment when we will have to trust the model more than ever because the temptation to move away from it will be very strong.

[lambtiss]

  On 14/10/2024 at 09:22, badgerx16 said:

 

Everything I posted was accurate, the timing was coincidental - I had just hung up a phone call during which I had been told what a first team squad member had said. I know the connection between the person I had spoken to and the player, and trust my 'source' to not be on a wind up.

.. 

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I have heard that nothing is happening until, at the very earliest, the Leicester match. 

[Jack]

  On 14/10/2024 at 10:15, Graffito said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/oct/14/is-it-naive-for-a-promoted-side-to-play-possession-football-in-the-premier-league?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

When we win, the game model seems good and is not questioned. But bear in mind, we won’t always win. Then doubts will come. That is the moment when we will have to trust the model more than ever because the temptation to move away from it will be very strong.

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“We won’t always win” 

At least he got that bit right. Ok Russ, but see what happens when we never win

[Wade Garrett]

Think the last part of The Guardian’s piece summed it up.  The refusal to change tactics is for the manager’s benefit, not the club’s.

[badgerx16]

  On 14/10/2024 at 10:59, Wade Garrett said:

Think the last part of The Guardian’s piece summed it up.  The refusal to change tactics is for the manager’s benefit, not the club’s.

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The difference between Martin and Kompany is in where they played and who were their managers. VK played several seasons as club captain for Pep at Man City, the pinnacle of Russ's career was Norwich.

Quite possibly some of Pep's magic rubbed off on VK, Russ is just a poor infatuated mimic.

Edited 14 October, 2024 by badgerx16

[Gloucester Saint]

  On 14/10/2024 at 10:15, Graffito said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/oct/14/is-it-naive-for-a-promoted-side-to-play-possession-football-in-the-premier-league?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

When we win, the game model seems good and is not questioned. But bear in mind, we won’t always win. Then doubts will come. That is the moment when we will have to trust the model more than ever because the temptation to move away from it will be very strong.

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That article has all the hallmarks of a pitch to his next mid-table Championship employer with half an eye on making the play-offs.

[Dark Munster]

  On 14/10/2024 at 07:44, Sarnia Cherie said:

Are Ian Branfoot and Steve Wigley busy?  Any port in a storm or better the devil you know? (Tongue in cheek in case anyone thinks I'm being serious). 

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Rasmus wouldn’t consider them, they’re old and useless. He’s only interested in young and useless managers. 

[Toussaint]

I heard that Rasmus is considering Rasmus as the ideal replacement, with Uri Geller as director of manifestation. 

[Badger]

  On 14/10/2024 at 10:24, lambtiss said:

I have heard that nothing is happening until, at the very earliest, the Leicester match. 

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So, another roll of the dice. Perhaps one too many.

Lose to Leicester and we’ll regret giving him this match and another three points squandered. But beat Leicester and that’ll be enough to keep him in post until probably the Everton or Wolves game when the same conversation will rumble on. 

[Badger]

  On 14/10/2024 at 15:07, Toussaint said:

I heard that Rasmus is considering Rasmus as the ideal replacement, with Uri Geller as director of manifestation. 

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Has to be a role for David Icke in there as well somewhere.

Actually, it’d be interesting to see what a Rasmus/Uri Geller brainstorming combination might come up with. Beyond Wilcox I always suspected Rasmus consulted with someone else re the appointment of Martin. Possibly Greta Thunberg. 

[Miltonaggro]

  On 14/10/2024 at 07:32, notnowcato said:

A lot of scar tissue being exposed when discussing ex managers. 
To be fair it’s fucking ridiculous comparing Hughes and Martin. One has had over 7 years managing in the premier league and the other has had 7 games. 

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You are right in terms of attempting comparison over time, but for the record in Hughes first seven games as a league (PL) manager he won one, drew three and lost three - so six points and hit the ground a good deal faster than Russ. 

Hughes' first ten as a league manager were won two, drew five, lost three and his first game / first win was against the pond life down the road. 

March 2018 we got jaded journeyman Mark Hughes of course, but to be fair he did the job he was taken on to do. 

 

[CB Fry]

  On 14/10/2024 at 16:08, Miltonaggro said:

March 2018 we got jaded journeyman Mark Hughes of course, but to be fair he did the job he was taken on to do. 

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8 points in his first 8 Saints PL games which we already know Martin won't be matching.

Edited 14 October, 2024 by CB Fry

[SambaMaverick]

Lose against Leicester and he has to go, simple as that.

[gurru991]

  On 14/10/2024 at 16:21, SambaMaverick said:

Lose against Leicester and he has to go, simple as that.

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The funny thing is that Leicester fans think that Cooper has to go if Southampton win.

[Weston Super Saint]

I used to think we'd be down with the Christmas decorations.  Sadly, carrying on like this and we could be down before they even go up.

[Badger]

  On 14/10/2024 at 16:57, gurru991 said:

The funny thing is that Leicester fans think that Cooper has to go if Southampton win.

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Both sets of fans think we’re playing for the Potter Trophy.

Both sets of fans to be disappointed.

[Gloucester Saint]

  On 14/10/2024 at 16:57, Weston Super Saint said:

I used to think we'd be down with the Christmas decorations.  Sadly, carrying on like this and we could be down before they even go up.

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If we lose this one, it’s a 30 game, 10 month pre-season for 25/26 campaign. Would only have Derby’s low points record to overhaul but hopefully some of the players would want to use the remaining fixtures as a showcase/shop window and as fans we might get at least a few enjoyable games/results without useless passing triangles between Stephens-Bednarek-THB.

Nothing against any of those players, I just loathe the style of football as much as I did Branfoot and long ball.

[Badger]

  On 14/10/2024 at 16:21, SambaMaverick said:

Lose against Leicester and he has to go, simple as that.

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Same was said before Ipswich, then Bournemouth. He had a pardon v Arsenal, and will v Man City. 

But every chance it’ll be said again v Everton, then Wolves. 

[Wade Garrett]

Dragan is going to lose a shitload of money because of the board’s procrastination.

He can afford it though.  It’s us lot that have supported the club all our lives that will have to live with it.

Sports Republic - a lesson in bullshit and incompetence.

[Suhari]

  On 14/10/2024 at 15:28, Badger said:

So, another roll of the dice. Perhaps one too many.

Lose to Leicester and we’ll regret giving him this match and another three points squandered. But beat Leicester and that’ll be enough to keep him in post until probably the Everton or Wolves game when the same conversation will rumble on. 

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I just hate the whole concept of any manager 'getting one more game to save his job'. Bollocks to that. If the club reaches that decision-point, then for me the decision is already made.

Just get rid.

Edited 14 October, 2024 by Suhari

[Midfield_General]

  On 14/10/2024 at 16:15, CB Fry said:

8 points in his first 8 Saints PL games which we already know Martin won't be matching.

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Also won his first match 2-0 at home to Wigan in the FA Cup quarter final, went toe-to-toe away at Arsenal, eventually going down 3-2 (after going 1-0 up and then equalising for 2-2), and again at home to Chelsea, losing 3-2 after going 2-0 up. 

Ultimately Hughes was a limited manager, but he was also a common sense manager and a pragmatist, had an immediate positive impact, and got the most out of the resources he was given to grind out the results he needed to keep us up. 

Edited 14 October, 2024 by Midfield_General

[Mr X]

  On 14/10/2024 at 17:27, Midfield_General said:

Also won his first match 2-0 at home to Wigan in the FA Cup quarter final, went toe-to-toe away at Arsenal, eventually going down 3-2 (after going 1-0 up and then equalising for 2-2), and again at home to Chelsea, losing 3-2 after going 2-0 up. 

Ultimately Hughes was a limited manager, but he was also a common sense manager and a pragmatist, had an immediate positive impact, and got the most out of the resources he was given to grind out the results he needed to keep us up. 

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This is the thing Martin is not using the tactics that will give the best chance of a mediocre group of players finishing 17th.... Martin can't grind out results as we are terrible in defence and don't score enough goals.... He has to go 

[AlexLaw76]

Such a waste that he is still here

[Mr X]

  On 14/10/2024 at 17:37, AlexLaw76 said:

Such a waste that he is still here

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But the general consensus on here is no one could keep this team up.... It will be difficult now but not impossible..... Stick with Martin and there's no chance 

[Suhari]

  On 14/10/2024 at 17:37, AlexLaw76 said:

Such a waste that he is still here

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I wonder if we'll look back in a few months, lamenting that a new guy would probably have kept us up, if only he'd had 3/4/5 more games as our manger.

[notnowcato]

  On 14/10/2024 at 16:08, Miltonaggro said:

You are right in terms of attempting comparison over time, but for the record in Hughes first seven games as a league (PL) manager he won one, drew three and lost three - so six points and hit the ground a good deal faster than Russ. 

Hughes' first ten as a league manager were won two, drew five, lost three and his first game / first win was against the pond life down the road. 

March 2018 we got jaded journeyman Mark Hughes of course, but to be fair he did the job he was taken on to do. 

 

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Marvellous. Equally meaningless but appreciate your efforts. 

[Convict Colony]

Russ has 4 games to save his job in my opinion.

Foxes, city, Everton then wolves 9th Nov before the international break.

SR sacked Ralph just before the same window so I expect they'd do the same again or earlier if we've got hardly any points before wolves.

Honestly I would think from those 4 games he needs minimum 6pts to stay in the role.

Edited 14 October, 2024 by Convict Colony

[Roo1976]

  On 14/10/2024 at 17:37, AlexLaw76 said:

Such a waste that he is still here

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totally agree ,im still clicking.......................

[manji]

  On 14/10/2024 at 09:22, badgerx16 said:

 

Everything I posted was accurate, the timing was coincidental - I had just hung up a phone call during which I had been told what a first team squad member had said. I know the connection between the person I had spoken to and the player, and trust my 'source' to not be on a wind up.

NB, I didn't say it would be today, Farmer said HE would find out more today - but I have no knowledge of Farmer or his contacts.

 

Best stay clear of the CoT thread if I were you.

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Always a sensible option.

[manji]

  On 14/10/2024 at 18:18, Suhari said:

I wonder if we'll look back in a few months, lamenting that a new guy would probably have kept us up, if only he'd had 3/4/5 more games as our manger.

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Or what the fuck did we bring him in for ? At least Martin knew the team. Along with some irrelevant comment on Rasmus.

[Lighthouse]

I don't know why anyone is hoping or expecting for him to have been sacked in this international break, when his last game was away at Arsenal and for the most part we acquitted ourselves alright. If it didnt happen after our trip to Bournemouth, then it isn't going to now.

  On 14/10/2024 at 18:18, Suhari said:

I wonder if we'll look back in a few months, lamenting that a new guy would probably have kept us up, if only he'd had 3/4/5 more games as our manger.

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So what, we just keep sacking managers every six or seven games? What if the next bloke comes in and only gets a point or two from his first seven? Sack him and bring in another?

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 14/10/2024 at 19:12, manji said:

Or what the fuck did we bring him in for ? At least Martin knew the team. Along with some irrelevant comment on Rasmus.

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Because the football under Martin is shit.

It is an effort to keep turning up to home games knowing that the enjoyment of the occasion is missing.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

  On 14/10/2024 at 19:14, Lighthouse said:

I don't know why anyone is hoping or expecting for him to have been sacked in this international break, when his last game was away at Arsenal and for the most part we acquitted ourselves alright. If it didnt happen after our trip to Bournemouth, then it isn't going to now.

So what, we just keep sacking managers every six or seven games? What if the next bloke comes in and only gets a point or two from his first seven? Sack him and bring in another?

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Surely he cannot survive a home defeat against Leicester? 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

 

 

  On 14/10/2024 at 19:12, manji said:

Or what the fuck did we bring him in for ? At least Martin knew the team. Along with some irrelevant comment on Rasmus.

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We brought him in to win games and ultimately establish ourselves in the PL again? Apologies if i have missed some context..haven't read back through all the history

Edited 14 October, 2024 by Golac's Cunning Stunts

[CB Fry]

  On 14/10/2024 at 19:14, Lighthouse said:

 

So what, we just keep sacking managers every six or seven games? What if the next bloke comes in and only gets a point or two from his first seven? Sack him and bring in another?

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New man gets game 9 to game 27.

At that point....

If he's broadly in the right direction he stays to take us into the Championship season On the back of a narrow relegation.

Or he performs a miracle and we stay up (we're not staying up).

Or If he's terrible then bin off and either caretaker or move in on a decent Championship manager (come on down, the inevitably available Steve Cooper). Prep begins for the Championship.

 

Edited 14 October, 2024 by CB Fry

[Lighthouse]

  On 14/10/2024 at 20:00, CB Fry said:

New man gets game 9 to game 27.

At that point....

If he's broadly in the right direction he stays to take us into the Championship season On the back of a narrow relegation.

Or he performs a miracle and we stay up (we're not staying up).

Or If he's terrible then bin off and either caretaker or move in on a decent Championship manager (come on down, the inevitably available Steve Cooper). Prep begins for the Championship.

 

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Why does the new man get nineteen games when Russ only gets eight? (Many wanted him gone after six, some as few as three or four).

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 14/10/2024 at 20:25, Lighthouse said:

Why does the new man get nineteen games when Russ only gets eight? (Many wanted him gone after six, some as few as three or four).

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Because Russ is stubborn and refuses to accept the obvious?

[Charlie Wayman]

  On 14/10/2024 at 20:25, Lighthouse said:

Why does the new man get nineteen games when Russ only gets eight? (Many wanted him gone after six, some as few as three or four).

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Nigel survived until mid-January - we stayed up. 

[a1ex2001]

  On 14/10/2024 at 16:57, Weston Super Saint said:

I used to think we'd be down with the Christmas decorations.  Sadly, carrying on like this and we could be down before they even go up.

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We are already down so stop worrying about it!

[CB Fry]

  On 14/10/2024 at 20:25, Lighthouse said:

Why does the new man get nineteen games when Russ only gets eight? (Many wanted him gone after six, some as few as three or four).

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I mean you can push for your "each manager gets eight games" strategy but I'm worried that youngsters like Tyler won't know their A from their E.

So....Manager 2 gets up until December and if he ain't no good then BAM - GOODBYE and new man in for the Christmas fixtures. Then he would make it to maybe the FA Cup fourth round in Feb before the potential chop.

I'm not super sure, i think its insane but if you believe in it, I'll back you.

 

Edited 14 October, 2024 by CB Fry

[Lighthouse]

  On 14/10/2024 at 22:05, CB Fry said:

I mean you can push for your "each manager gets eight games" strategy but I'm worried that youngsters like Tyler won't know their A from their E.

Manager 2 gets up until December and if he ain't no good then BAM - GOODBYE and new man in for the Christmas fixtures. Then he would make it to maybe the FA Cup fourth round in Feb before the potential chop.

I'm not super sure, i think its insane but if you believe in it, I'll back you.

 

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That’s very obviously not what I’m saying though. Most people wanted Russ gone after Bournemouth, i.e. six games. Now the consensus seems to be that failing to win our eighth game will be the final straw. My point is that if the next bloke comes in and gets one or two points from eight games, why does he then get another eleven games to prove himself?

In short, why would we hold two different managers to completely different expectations in terms of time available to get results? Because I can absolutely guarantee it won’t pan out that way with the fans. Nobody was demanding we give Jones another twelve games after that Wolves performance last year and it’ll just be the same if the new bloke turns in similar performances.

[CB Fry]

  On 14/10/2024 at 22:18, Lighthouse said:

That’s very obviously not what I’m saying though. Most people wanted Russ gone after Bournemouth, i.e. six games. Now the consensus seems to be that failing to win our eighth game will be the final straw. My point is that if the next bloke comes in and gets one or two points from eight games, why does he then get another eleven games to prove himself?

In short, why would we hold two different managers to completely different expectations in terms of time available to get results? Because I can absolutely guarantee it won’t pan out that way with the fans. Nobody was demanding we give Jones another twelve games after that Wolves performance last year and it’ll just be the same if the new bloke turns in similar performances.

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You seem to be labouring under the assumption that Russell Martin was appointed on August 1st. 

We've seen a whole season of him so we know his shortcomings - last season he lost all four matches against our fellow promoted teams, for example. Time for bye bye.

 

I think we should welcome our new manager and get behind him. After all remember how Alex Ferguson started and he proved everyone wrong. The new guy deserves our backing from the start because we all want to stay up. COYS

Edited 14 October, 2024 by CB Fry

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 14/10/2024 at 20:00, CB Fry said:

New man gets game 9 to game 27.

At that point....

If he's broadly in the right direction he stays to take us into the Championship season On the back of a narrow relegation.

Or he performs a miracle and we stay up (we're not staying up).

Or If he's terrible then bin off and either caretaker or move in on a decent Championship manager (come on down, the inevitably available Steve Cooper). Prep begins for the Championship.

 

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Works for me 

[Miltonaggro]

  On 14/10/2024 at 18:36, notnowcato said:

Marvellous. Equally meaningless but appreciate your efforts. 

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Very sweet of you to say that. 

[hypochondriac]

As much as I detest him, it would have been rather interesting to see where we would have ended up had we appointed Nathan Jones after relegation. Maybe his aggression would have got us promoted and in an alternative scenario it would have been kind of fascinating to see how we would have fared in the prem in that case. If we'd employed Martin instead of Jones maybe he would be the hated one. 

[Dusic]

I've seen nothing to suggest Jones would have got us promoted. He was in the very fortunate position of coming in mid season and then having a 6 week break to get the team setup how he wanted and there was absolutely no visible sign of any pattern or structure, let alone an improvement.

Seems its going the same way with Charlton too. Suprise suprise.

Russell Martin has managed one full season, achieved one promotion having brought together a fractured squad and then is struggling in the PL (as most recent promoted teams have done), with a squad whose most proven PL goalscorer is a 36yo Adam Lallana.

He will probably end up being fired soon and we may or may not improve - certainly no guarentee. But overall he has to be considered as a good appointment by the club - ridiculous for people to be comparing him to Jones and Selles, the first of whom is probably the worst manager we have ever had.

[beatlesaint]

  On 15/10/2024 at 06:36, Dusic said:

But overall he has to be considered as a good appointment by the club - ridiculous for people to be comparing him to Jones and Selles, the first of whom is probably the worst manager we have ever had.

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Yeah, I dont like the style of play, I dont like the fact he's too stubborn to change, but there is no way he compares with some of the shite we've appointed over the past 20 years. 

[Lighthouse]

  On 14/10/2024 at 22:30, CB Fry said:

You seem to be labouring under the assumption that Russell Martin was appointed on August 1st. 

We've seen a whole season of him so we know his shortcomings - last season he lost all four matches against our fellow promoted teams, for example. Time for bye bye.

 

I think we should welcome our new manager and get behind him. After all remember how Alex Ferguson started and he proved everyone wrong. The new guy deserves our backing from the start because we all want to stay up. COYS

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So basically you’re counting the fact that he was here to get us promoted against him. Yes, Russ has short comings, as will absolutely any manager we have a realistic chance of getting, but to say that he only gets eight games after getting us promoted, whilst a complete stranger gets nineteen, makes no sense.