Russell Martin

[Holmes_and_Watson]

29 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Stop asking for lists of managers.

You're still making out that the only person on planet earth that is suitable for us is Russell Martin who conveniently enough just so happens to be the guy we've chosen.

Ridiculous.

I'd have thought that any manager from any non top league would see this position as a decent post to have. The chance to be part of an overhaul, with some resources, and a big squad at the start of the summer, to get back into the most lucrative league on the planet.

Even among some of the top leagues, if you're not likely to be getting into European places, or with realistic chances of getting there soon, then I'd have thought we would be a decent draw too (premier League and the odd other excepted as the resources in those leagues improves)

For managers currently not employed, unless they want to only join at a top or European spot chasing club, I'd have thought we'd be a decent draw too.

SR are a bit of a shambles at present as they address the leaving staff. But that isn't likely to 1)put anyone off or 2) not get resolved shortly.

The above is fairly broad stroke, and illustrates the level we're at and is not a "we can get anyone." But we're in a relatively good place, considering what a  horror show of a season it was. We should be amongst the strongest teams to get back up to the richest league.

It's a little surprising to find out that it's all nonsense and we're lucky to get someone who's never managed in a top league with that standard of player (used loosely for our lot 🙂). I get the positives in getting Martin. But also the risks, and think we sell ourselves short.

We paid Ralph very well. We've not be averse to paying significant compensation either to get a manager in. So those aren't obstacles either.

Edited 25 May, 2023 by Holmes_and_Watson
typo

[Doctoroncall]

39 minutes ago, Wyn said:

Swans fan here, in peace.

Swansea fans have become well acquainted with various flavours of possession football down the years, with the likes of Martinez, Rodgers, Laudrup and Potter, but it's fair to say that Martin has been the most ideological of all. That's saying something when you consider how Swansea played under Rogers. Possession and control are everything to Martin, and it's fair to say that he has a blind spot for the downsides to his philosophical approach. Midway through last season I worked out for games in which Swansea had more than 60% possession the points return was, if calculated for a whole season, would have given us 48 points - i.e. borderline relegation form. For games in which we had between 50 and 60% possession our season-equivalent points tally would have been over a 100 - a title winning tally. On the pitch, this obsession with possession and control has far too often translated into turgid, walking football, with no intensity or tempo. A lot of Swansea fans have become fed up with this is, in spite of our history. To be fair to Martin there have been signs of him becoming less fixated on possession. A switch to a back four certainly helped the run of 7 wins and two draws at the end of the season. He has also started talking about adaptability in his pressers, so perhaps he's learning. 

Swansea's poor defence can partially attributed to having a very inexperienced lineup, with an average age of just 23 for the back line. A season-ending injury to Benda, our first choice goalie, led to the introduction of Fisher, who made several blunders, but improved at the end of the season. Playing out at the back has led to some goals (with the odd goal scored starting from the goalie), so that's on Martin. Swansea's defending of set pieces hasn't been great, and scoring from them has been even worse, although things did improve slightly this season. 

In spite of the negatives, I still think Martin is a good coach, and has a decent chance of succeeding with you, if the fans and board are prepared to be patient. One thing that's easy to forget is just how poor the standard of the Championship is compared to the Premier League. Lots of your players who've struggled this season will suddenly look top drawer dropping down a division. Kompany managed to turn Burnley into a possession based outfit overnight with very few acquisitions, so I can't see why Martin can't succeed too. 

As for our players, I can see you coming after Manning, Piroe and Grimes. Manning is available on a free (having run down his contract), and whilst a mediocre defender, he is excellent going forwards, with plenty of goals and assists. Leeds are sniffing, so you'll have to get in there early. Piroe is a class act. His finishing is of the highest standard, having the ability to stroke the ball into the corners of the net time after time. The only reason he doesn't seem to be attracting much Premier League attention is his lack of pace - but he's certainly top drawer at Championship level. He's only got a year left on his contract so Swansea's owner's will be desperate to sell. He could be yours for about £12 million. Grimes is the personification of the manager on the pitch. He's technically very adept, and very composed on the ball (the best pass completion of any midfielder in the Championship I think). However, he is a bit marmite, as he's the fulcrum of everything good and bad, and so attracted a lot of unfair flak when Swansea played walking football. I imagine Martin would be very keen to sign him, and that Grimes would want to move. About £8 million should seal the deal.

I'll be intrigued to see how you fare next season. It should be apparent by Xmas whether Martinball translates to a better calibre of side. In the meantime, I'm hoping Swansea bring in Ian Evatt, who has a far better possession-based pedigree than Martin had before he joined us.

But Evatt is a shareholder of the company which owns Bolton.  Although only a minority owner, not sure if he’d want a move to another team with having a deep relationship with a rival club. 
 

Better players will certainly help Martin looking at how Swansea have performed this season and hopefully as you say Martin is becoming adaptable in his tactical approach - always other ways to beat the opposition if plan A isn’t working out. 

[the saint in winchester]

49 minutes ago, Wyn said:

Swans fan here, in peace.

Swansea fans have become well acquainted with various flavours of possession football down the years, with the likes of Martinez, Rodgers, Laudrup and Potter, but it's fair to say that Martin has been the most ideological of all. That's saying something when you consider how Swansea played under Rogers. Possession and control are everything to Martin, and it's fair to say that he has a blind spot for the downsides to his philosophical approach. Midway through last season I worked out for games in which Swansea had more than 60% possession the points return was, if calculated for a whole season, would have given us 48 points - i.e. borderline relegation form. For games in which we had between 50 and 60% possession our season-equivalent points tally would have been over a 100 - a title winning tally. On the pitch, this obsession with possession and control has far too often translated into turgid, walking football, with no intensity or tempo. A lot of Swansea fans have become fed up with this is, in spite of our history. To be fair to Martin there have been signs of him becoming less fixated on possession. A switch to a back four certainly helped the run of 7 wins and two draws at the end of the season. He has also started talking about adaptability in his pressers, so perhaps he's learning. 

Swansea's poor defence can partially attributed to having a very inexperienced lineup, with an average age of just 23 for the back line. A season-ending injury to Benda, our first choice goalie, led to the introduction of Fisher, who made several blunders, but improved at the end of the season. Playing out at the back has led to some goals (with the odd goal scored starting from the goalie), so that's on Martin. Swansea's defending of set pieces hasn't been great, and scoring from them has been even worse, although things did improve slightly this season. 

In spite of the negatives, I still think Martin is a good coach, and has a decent chance of succeeding with you, if the fans and board are prepared to be patient. One thing that's easy to forget is just how poor the standard of the Championship is compared to the Premier League. Lots of your players who've struggled this season will suddenly look top drawer dropping down a division. Kompany managed to turn Burnley into a possession based outfit overnight with very few acquisitions, so I can't see why Martin can't succeed too. 

As for our players, I can see you coming after Manning, Piroe and Grimes. Manning is available on a free (having run down his contract), and whilst a mediocre defender, he is excellent going forwards, with plenty of goals and assists. Leeds are sniffing, so you'll have to get in there early. Piroe is a class act. His finishing is of the highest standard, having the ability to stroke the ball into the corners of the net time after time. The only reason he doesn't seem to be attracting much Premier League attention is his lack of pace - but he's certainly top drawer at Championship level. He's only got a year left on his contract so Swansea's owner's will be desperate to sell. He could be yours for about £12 million. Grimes is the personification of the manager on the pitch. He's technically very adept, and very composed on the ball (the best pass completion of any midfielder in the Championship I think). However, he is a bit marmite, as he's the fulcrum of everything good and bad, and so attracted a lot of unfair flak when Swansea played walking football. I imagine Martin would be very keen to sign him, and that Grimes would want to move. About £8 million should seal the deal.

I'll be intrigued to see how you fare next season. It should be apparent by Xmas whether Martinball translates to a better calibre of side. In the meantime, I'm hoping Swansea bring in Ian Evatt, who has a far better possession-based pedigree than Martin had before he joined us.

Thanks for all this, Wyn.

I hope we move quickly to get the three players mentioned. Grimes sounds like captain material.

[CB Fry]

47 minutes ago, Wyn said:

Swans fan here, in peace.

Swansea fans have become well acquainted with various flavours of possession football down the years, with the likes of Martinez, Rodgers, Laudrup and Potter, but it's fair to say that Martin has been the most ideological of all. That's saying something when you consider how Swansea played under Rogers. Possession and control are everything to Martin, and it's fair to say that he has a blind spot for the downsides to his philosophical approach. Midway through last season I worked out for games in which Swansea had more than 60% possession the points return was, if calculated for a whole season, would have given us 48 points - i.e. borderline relegation form. For games in which we had between 50 and 60% possession our season-equivalent points tally would have been over a 100 - a title winning tally. On the pitch, this obsession with possession and control has far too often translated into turgid, walking football, with no intensity or tempo. A lot of Swansea fans have become fed up with this is, in spite of our history. To be fair to Martin there have been signs of him becoming less fixated on possession. A switch to a back four certainly helped the run of 7 wins and two draws at the end of the season. He has also started talking about adaptability in his pressers, so perhaps he's learning. 

Swansea's poor defence can partially attributed to having a very inexperienced lineup, with an average age of just 23 for the back line. A season-ending injury to Benda, our first choice goalie, led to the introduction of Fisher, who made several blunders, but improved at the end of the season. Playing out at the back has led to some goals (with the odd goal scored starting from the goalie), so that's on Martin. Swansea's defending of set pieces hasn't been great, and scoring from them has been even worse, although things did improve slightly this season. 

In spite of the negatives, I still think Martin is a good coach, and has a decent chance of succeeding with you, if the fans and board are prepared to be patient. One thing that's easy to forget is just how poor the standard of the Championship is compared to the Premier League. Lots of your players who've struggled this season will suddenly look top drawer dropping down a division. Kompany managed to turn Burnley into a possession based outfit overnight with very few acquisitions, so I can't see why Martin can't succeed too. 

As for our players, I can see you coming after Manning, Piroe and Grimes. Manning is available on a free (having run down his contract), and whilst a mediocre defender, he is excellent going forwards, with plenty of goals and assists. Leeds are sniffing, so you'll have to get in there early. Piroe is a class act. His finishing is of the highest standard, having the ability to stroke the ball into the corners of the net time after time. The only reason he doesn't seem to be attracting much Premier League attention is his lack of pace - but he's certainly top drawer at Championship level. He's only got a year left on his contract so Swansea's owner's will be desperate to sell. He could be yours for about £12 million. Grimes is the personification of the manager on the pitch. He's technically very adept, and very composed on the ball (the best pass completion of any midfielder in the Championship I think). However, he is a bit marmite, as he's the fulcrum of everything good and bad, and so attracted a lot of unfair flak when Swansea played walking football. I imagine Martin would be very keen to sign him, and that Grimes would want to move. About £8 million should seal the deal.

I'll be intrigued to see how you fare next season. It should be apparent by Xmas whether Martinball translates to a better calibre of side. In the meantime, I'm hoping Swansea bring in Ian Evatt, who has a far better possession-based pedigree than Martin had before he joined us.

Really useful - thanks for the write up.

Interesting how positive you are about Piroe.

One of the statistical experts on this very forum has written off Piroe because he assures us that there are 91 other players in the Championship that are more clinical finishers than him. True story.

But it's a game of opinions (his is wrong).

[LeBizzier69]

Is he in the building yet?!

[Bad Wolf]

Has Martin signed yet?

[Mr X]

16 hours ago, The Cat said:

We aren't a small club, we're a medium sized one. Someone like Mansfield or Rochdale or Stockport would be seen as a small club, not someone like us with a decent size stadium and fan base.

Also, why would you think there's a small ambition when the club spent crap loads on players in January and to appoint Jones and then more money to sack him?

Surely a club with small ambition wouldn't bother to sign relatively expensive players or pay compensation to a manager.

Okay maybe small club mentality yes we have spent money but who would have spent that money on Nathan Jones or thought they he was an ambitious appointment? And the player recruitment has been horrific Lavia aside 

[Nordic Saint]

Just over 2 months ago, when Swansea were 17th and sliding towards relegation, having won only 1 of their last 11 games, it was rumoured their owners wanted to replace him and their fans certainly did but then an impressive unbetaten run took them up to 10th and saved him... for us.

 

Just over 2 months ago:  

Forum | Russell Martin : ‘ I really like our mentality’ But Russ this is relegation by SwansIndependent | Swansea Independent (fansnetwork.co.uk)

Edited 25 May, 2023 by Nordic Saint

[littledavewatson]

1 hour ago, Nordic Saint said:

Just over 2 months ago, when Swansea were 17th and sliding towards relegation, having won only 1 of their last 11 games, it was rumoured their owners wanted to replace him and their fans certainly did but then an impressive unbetaten run took them up to 10th and saved him... for us.

 

Just over 2 months ago:  

Forum | Russell Martin : ‘ I really like our mentality’ But Russ this is relegation by SwansIndependent | Swansea Independent (fansnetwork.co.uk)

I posted about this on an earlier page but you have to look at the context behind this.

Before / during this run they lost Obafemi in January, their first choice keeper to a long term injury, and the club added no-one throughout the entire window. Their first XI was significantly weaker for the remainder of the season and they went on a bad run. Again on the topic of context, their fixture list also worsened and out of the 1 win in 12 games and 8 defeats (they lost to Millwall after this) they lost to teams that finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5rd, 7th and 8th for 7 of those 8. As we know all too recently, relegation form is going on losing runs against your closest league rivals, not results against the best teams in the league.

In 2015-16, we went on a run of 3 wins in 13 games, coincidentally with our first choice keeper out with a long term injury. We finished 6th that season, our highest league position and points total in the PL era. Bad runs happen, and can be worsened by circumstances such as key injuries or key departures without replacement, it's about bouncing back and improving just as they did (finishing unbeaten 3 points off the playoffs with said squad) and we did in 15-16, which turned when our best keeper in Forster came back from injury.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether you're for or against a prospective managerial hire, but I really don't get the highlighting of specific bad runs or league finishes without exploring reasons as to why it might have happened.

[Greedyfly]

5 minutes ago, littledavewatson said:

I posted about this on an earlier page but you have to look at the context behind this.

Before / during this run they lost Obafemi in January, their first choice keeper to a long term injury, and the club added no-one throughout the entire window. Their first XI was significantly weaker for the remainder of the season and they went on a bad run. Again on the topic of context, their fixture list also worsened and out of the 1 win in 12 games and 8 defeats (they lost to Millwall after this) they lost to teams that finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5rd, 7th and 8th for 7 of those 8. As we know all too recently, relegation form is going on losing runs against your closest league rivals, not results against the best teams in the league.

In 2015-16, we went on a run of 3 wins in 13 games, coincidentally with our first choice keeper out with a long term injury. We finished 6th that season, our highest league position and points total in the PL era. Bad runs happen, and can be worsened by circumstances such as key injuries or key departures without replacement, it's about bouncing back and improving just as they did (finishing unbeaten 3 points off the playoffs with said squad) and we did in 15-16, which turned when our best keeper in Forster came back from injury.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether you're for or against a prospective managerial hire, but I really don't get the highlighting of specific bad runs or league finishes without exploring reasons as to why it might have happened.

We should probably be worried then as we aren't even starting with a 1st choice keeper and striker

 

[Miltonaggro]

3 hours ago, Mr X said:

Okay maybe small club mentality yes we have spent money but who would have spent that money on Nathan Jones or thought they he was an ambitious appointment? And the player recruitment has been horrific Lavia aside 

More incompetent club mentality than small club mentality - defeat from the jaws of success. 

[Whitey Grandad]

6 hours ago, Wyn said:

Swans fan here, in peace.

Swansea fans have become well acquainted with various flavours of possession football down the years, with the likes of Martinez, Rodgers, Laudrup and Potter, but it's fair to say that Martin has been the most ideological of all. That's saying something when you consider how Swansea played under Rogers. Possession and control are everything to Martin, and it's fair to say that he has a blind spot for the downsides to his philosophical approach. Midway through last season I worked out for games in which Swansea had more than 60% possession the points return was, if calculated for a whole season, would have given us 48 points - i.e. borderline relegation form. For games in which we had between 50 and 60% possession our season-equivalent points tally would have been over a 100 - a title winning tally. On the pitch, this obsession with possession and control has far too often translated into turgid, walking football, with no intensity or tempo. A lot of Swansea fans have become fed up with this is, in spite of our history. To be fair to Martin there have been signs of him becoming less fixated on possession. A switch to a back four certainly helped the run of 7 wins and two draws at the end of the season. He has also started talking about adaptability in his pressers, so perhaps he's learning. 

Swansea's poor defence can partially attributed to having a very inexperienced lineup, with an average age of just 23 for the back line. A season-ending injury to Benda, our first choice goalie, led to the introduction of Fisher, who made several blunders, but improved at the end of the season. Playing out at the back has led to some goals (with the odd goal scored starting from the goalie), so that's on Martin. Swansea's defending of set pieces hasn't been great, and scoring from them has been even worse, although things did improve slightly this season. 

In spite of the negatives, I still think Martin is a good coach, and has a decent chance of succeeding with you, if the fans and board are prepared to be patient. One thing that's easy to forget is just how poor the standard of the Championship is compared to the Premier League. Lots of your players who've struggled this season will suddenly look top drawer dropping down a division. Kompany managed to turn Burnley into a possession based outfit overnight with very few acquisitions, so I can't see why Martin can't succeed too. 

As for our players, I can see you coming after Manning, Piroe and Grimes. Manning is available on a free (having run down his contract), and whilst a mediocre defender, he is excellent going forwards, with plenty of goals and assists. Leeds are sniffing, so you'll have to get in there early. Piroe is a class act. His finishing is of the highest standard, having the ability to stroke the ball into the corners of the net time after time. The only reason he doesn't seem to be attracting much Premier League attention is his lack of pace - but he's certainly top drawer at Championship level. He's only got a year left on his contract so Swansea's owner's will be desperate to sell. He could be yours for about £12 million. Grimes is the personification of the manager on the pitch. He's technically very adept, and very composed on the ball (the best pass completion of any midfielder in the Championship I think). However, he is a bit marmite, as he's the fulcrum of everything good and bad, and so attracted a lot of unfair flak when Swansea played walking football. I imagine Martin would be very keen to sign him, and that Grimes would want to move. About £8 million should seal the deal.

I'll be intrigued to see how you fare next season. It should be apparent by Xmas whether Martinball translates to a better calibre of side. In the meantime, I'm hoping Swansea bring in Ian Evatt, who has a far better possession-based pedigree than Martin had before he joined us.

Thanks, very interesting and does nothing to allay our fears.

On another point I must add that I was impressed with the demeanour of the club and your fans when I went to your place for that relegation contest between us. Very dignified, all as it should be. I have kept a look out for your results ever since.

[LGTL]

So he's not exactly pulled up any trees at Swansea, and the impressive write up by Wyn highlights exactly what many of us are fearing

Edited 25 May, 2023 by LGTL

[Convict Colony]

11 minutes ago, LGTL said:

So he's not exactly pulled up any trees at Swansea, and the impressive write up by Wyn highlights exactly what many of us are fearing

Possession is 9/10ths of the law

If the police catch you in possession your in trouble.

So many quandary's about possession.

[InvictaSaint]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Thanks, very interesting and does nothing to allay our fears.

On another point I must add that I was impressed with the demeanour of the club and your fans when I went to your place for that relegation contest between us. Very dignified, all as it should be. I have kept a look out for your results ever since.

But again you’re being selective. Wyn mentions a number of positives within his post. I certainly wouldn’t say there’s ‘nothing to allay our fears’ - quite the opposite. But if you go looking for misery, you’ll almost certainly find it….

A more balanced view would be that Wyn highlights some concerns over a potentially fixed mindset related to possession, resulting in less attractive and less effective football, but counters that with an indication the winning run at the back end of the season showed Martin being more adaptable and flexible. If you then take the context of Littledavewatson’s very reasoned and reasonable post you get a sense of what Martin was up against in January and how that affected things. With better players he might not suffer those issues. 

Nothing is guaranteed and Martin may fail or may succeed. But taking a balanced view is key. 

[Wyn]

34 minutes ago, InvictaSaint said:

But again you’re being selective. Wyn mentions a number of positives within his post. I certainly wouldn’t say there’s ‘nothing to allay our fears’ - quite the opposite. But if you go looking for misery, you’ll almost certainly find it….

A more balanced view would be that Wyn highlights some concerns over a potentially fixed mindset related to possession, resulting in less attractive and less effective football, but counters that with an indication the winning run at the back end of the season showed Martin being more adaptable and flexible. If you then take the context of Littledavewatson’s very reasoned and reasonable post you get a sense of what Martin was up against in January and how that affected things. With better players he might not suffer those issues. 

Nothing is guaranteed and Martin may fail or may succeed. But taking a balanced view is key. 

Thanks for that. I thought my post was fairly balanced, but as you've indicated other posters seemed to focus on the negatives. 

On balance, I like Martin, and I'm disappointed to see him leave. The walking football tended to happen against teams who came to park the bus, where it's difficult to play with tempo. He needs to allow his players to take more risks in the middle third, but I think that may well happen with a more balanced team available to him. He was hampered by playing without a decent right back/wingback all season, zero pace in the team once Obafemi left, and having to contend with prolonged absences for Allen and Walsh, who provided much needed impetus to our play, alongside Grimes, on the rare occasions when they were available. 

The player that Martin was so keen to sign in January to fill the right wingback berth was Ogbene, of Rotherham. The board refused to sanction a transfer fee for a player who had 6 months left on his contract. Ogbene would have added both pace and a right sided outlet, and probably would have got us into the playoffs. He subsequently put in a MOTM performance for ROI against France, so he way well be another player heading your way. 

To re-iterate, I rate Piroe very highly, he's worth at least £20 million in my estimation, but should be available for £12-15 million because of his contractual situation. He's just so composed and precise in front of goal, a lot of his goals are low shots that nestle into the corner of the net. His winner in the last match of the season illustrates the point Swansea City v West Brom | Extended Highlights | Swansea  Albion's opener in that game also illustrates the dangers of playing out from the back. In that respect Martin takes a high risk approach, but it doesn't make much sense to take such risks if you don't have the pace up front, or the attacking intent in the middle of the park to take advantage of the space that opens up when you evade the high press. But with a more balanced team, that may not be an issue. 

Grimes is an all-round player, who plays pretty much every game, very rarely injured or suspended. He can defend, and has a great range of passing, chipping in with some lovely assists with through balls and beautifully lofted passes in to Piroe. But his role under Martin has been more conservative than under Martin's predecessors, and he needs a more dynamic partner in the double pivot for the team to be properly balanced. Swansea really need to hang on to him as he's been our mainstay through the Potter, Cooper and Martin eras, but I can see Martin prioritising signing him for you even over Piroe. 

If you were to sign Manning, Ogbene, Piroe and Grimes I would have you down as certs to go straight back up. But do you have £20 million to spare?

[S-Clarke]

13 minutes ago, Wyn said:

Thanks for that. I thought my post was fairly balanced, but as you've indicated other posters seemed to focus on the negatives. 

On balance, I like Martin, and I'm disappointed to see him leave. The walking football tended to happen against teams who came to park the bus, where it's difficult to play with tempo. He needs to allow his players to take more risks in the middle third, but I think that may well happen with a more balanced team available to him. He was hampered by playing without a decent right back/wingback all season, zero pace in the team once Obafemi left, and having to contend with prolonged absences for Allen and Walsh, who provided much needed impetus to our play, alongside Grimes, on the rare occasions when they were available. 

The player that Martin was so keen to sign in January to fill the right wingback berth was Ogbene, of Rotherham. The board refused to sanction a transfer fee for a player who had 6 months left on his contract. Ogbene would have added both pace and a right sided outlet, and probably would have got us into the playoffs. He subsequently put in a MOTM performance for ROI against France, so he way well be another player heading your way. 

To re-iterate, I rate Piroe very highly, he's worth at least £20 million in my estimation, but should be available for £12-15 million because of his contractual situation. He's just so composed and precise in front of goal, a lot of his goals are low shots that nestle into the corner of the net. His winner in the last match of the season illustrates the point Swansea City v West Brom | Extended Highlights | Swansea  Albion's opener in that game also illustrates the dangers of playing out from the back. In that respect Martin takes a high risk approach, but it doesn't make much sense to take such risks if you don't have the pace up front, or the attacking intent in the middle of the park to take advantage of the space that opens up when you evade the high press. But with a more balanced team, that may not be an issue. 

Grimes is an all-round player, who plays pretty much every game, very rarely injured or suspended. He can defend, and has a great range of passing, chipping in with some lovely assists with through balls and beautifully lofted passes in to Piroe. But his role under Martin has been more conservative than under Martin's predecessors, and he needs a more dynamic partner in the double pivot for the team to be properly balanced. Swansea really need to hang on to him as he's been our mainstay through the Potter, Cooper and Martin eras, but I can see Martin prioritising signing him for you even over Piroe. 

If you were to sign Manning, Ogbene, Piroe and Grimes I would have you down as certs to go straight back up. But do you have £20 million to spare?

Thank you for your views, I think you give a really fair assessment which shows the problems you faced, but like you I think this was more down to the players you had avaliable to you than any terrible personal management by Martin himself.

In relation to Ogbone, we expect Tino Livramento to stay with us and we also have James Bree to provide cover - so right back is right down our list to strengthen. Piroe seems to be a decent shout for us though, if you fancy it we'll give you Adam Armstrong for free in exchange  (or we'll pay you to take him, whatever you want)

Grimes sounds like a steady-eady type in midfield, similar to how JWP plays for us. In terms of what budget we'd have avaliable, should we (as expected) sell JWP for £40, Lavia for £40, KWP for £25, Salisu for £15m then we'd be looking at £100m to play with in the market. We've been told by our owners that they will provide funds in addition to what we raise, so financially we should be in a position to really set the tone - but it's not all about finances as we all know! I'd say Martin will almost certainly be able to build his own team here with the players he wants.

[qwertyell]

22 minutes ago, Wyn said:

Thanks for that. I thought my post was fairly balanced, but as you've indicated other posters seemed to focus on the negatives. 

On balance, I like Martin, and I'm disappointed to see him leave. The walking football tended to happen against teams who came to park the bus, where it's difficult to play with tempo. He needs to allow his players to take more risks in the middle third, but I think that may well happen with a more balanced team available to him. He was hampered by playing without a decent right back/wingback all season, zero pace in the team once Obafemi left, and having to contend with prolonged absences for Allen and Walsh, who provided much needed impetus to our play, alongside Grimes, on the rare occasions when they were available. 

The player that Martin was so keen to sign in January to fill the right wingback berth was Ogbene, of Rotherham. The board refused to sanction a transfer fee for a player who had 6 months left on his contract. Ogbene would have added both pace and a right sided outlet, and probably would have got us into the playoffs. He subsequently put in a MOTM performance for ROI against France, so he way well be another player heading your way. 

To re-iterate, I rate Piroe very highly, he's worth at least £20 million in my estimation, but should be available for £12-15 million because of his contractual situation. He's just so composed and precise in front of goal, a lot of his goals are low shots that nestle into the corner of the net. His winner in the last match of the season illustrates the point Swansea City v West Brom | Extended Highlights | Swansea  Albion's opener in that game also illustrates the dangers of playing out from the back. In that respect Martin takes a high risk approach, but it doesn't make much sense to take such risks if you don't have the pace up front, or the attacking intent in the middle of the park to take advantage of the space that opens up when you evade the high press. But with a more balanced team, that may not be an issue. 

Grimes is an all-round player, who plays pretty much every game, very rarely injured or suspended. He can defend, and has a great range of passing, chipping in with some lovely assists with through balls and beautifully lofted passes in to Piroe. But his role under Martin has been more conservative than under Martin's predecessors, and he needs a more dynamic partner in the double pivot for the team to be properly balanced. Swansea really need to hang on to him as he's been our mainstay through the Potter, Cooper and Martin eras, but I can see Martin prioritising signing him for you even over Piroe. 

If you were to sign Manning, Ogbene, Piroe and Grimes I would have you down as certs to go straight back up. But do you have £20 million to spare?

Is Nathan Wood worth a punt?

[Wyn]

6 minutes ago, qwertyell said:

Is Nathan Wood worth a punt?

He's raw, but has developed over the course of the season. He's attracting interest from Spurs and Arsenal by all accounts, so he's more likely to move to the Premier League. Martin will rate him, but he's one for the future, so may not be the quick fix you might be looking for. 

Ogbene is versatile, and plays more as a winger than as a wingback, so that, and his availability on a free, might swing things his way.

The only other Swansea player you might be interested in is Ntcham. Excellent goals from midfield, but does tend to go missing at times. Swansea have attracted some new investors, so I'm still hopeful we may be able to hang on to some of our players!

Edited 25 May, 2023 by Wyn

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

10 hours ago, Wyn said:

On the pitch, this obsession with possession and control has far too often translated into turgid, walking football, with no intensity or tempo.

Thanks Wyn for your insights and yes sentence does concern a lot of us. We are going to come across many teams that will park the proverbial bus and we showed this year we have no idea as to how it can be broken down...so we pass sideways and go at walking speed. Hopefully there'll be some new additions with new ideas.

[macca155]

10 minutes ago, Wyn said:

He's raw, but has developed over the course of the season. He's attracting interest from Spurs and Arsenal by all accounts, so he's more likely to move to the Premier League. Martin will rate him, but he's one for the future, so may not be the quick fix you might be looking for. 

Ogbene is versatile, and plays more as a winger than as a wingback, so that, and his availability on a free, might swing things his way.

The only other Swansea player you might be interested in is Ntcham. Excellent goals from midfield, but does tend to go missing at times. Swansea have attracted some new investors, so I'm still hopeful we may be able to hang on to some of our players!

Thanks for posting, much appreciated. I'd imagine Grimes will be very high on the list of possible transfers, if Martin gets a say. With Smallbone returning and picking up JWPs creative duties, the team will need another midfielder to play in the Lavia role. Well actually we need about 4 but that's a whole different story.

Not so sure on Piroe, absolutely no doubt he is a quality forward and I suspect someone like Bournemouth will take a punt and if not them others will be circling. In addition Saints have a lot of forwards, of varying abilities it has to be said, and whilst some will be shipped out we'll still be left with enough for the squad. As you say they are probably going to look a lot sharper in the Championship.

I don't think money will be the issue, owners will spend where necessary and there will be a lot of transfer money incoming. Problem is the current squad is so bloated, they'll never be able to shift them all which won't make much room for new signings.

[woodsaint1]

35 minutes ago, Wyn said:

He's raw, but has developed over the course of the season. He's attracting interest from Spurs and Arsenal by all accounts, so he's more likely to move to the Premier League. Martin will rate him, but he's one for the future, so may not be the quick fix you might be looking for. 

Ogbene is versatile, and plays more as a winger than as a wingback, so that, and his availability on a free, might swing things his way.

The only other Swansea player you might be interested in is Ntcham. Excellent goals from midfield, but does tend to go missing at times. Swansea have attracted some new investors, so I'm still hopeful we may be able to hang on to some of our players!

We were repeatedly linked when he was leaving Celtic so it could be an option. Think there were question marks over his work rate and attitude however

[Bad Wolf]

In this day and age, we've known it's Martin for a week and the club know we know so why can't they just say "Yeah, it's who you think it is, we've just got to sort out the finer details and we'll confirm probably Saturday morning but definitely by Sunday evening"

[Lighthouse]

8 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

In this day and age, we've known it's Martin for a week and the club know we know so why can't they just say "Yeah, it's who you think it is, we've just got to sort out the finer details and we'll confirm probably Saturday morning but definitely by Sunday evening"

Because they'll look like a bunch of wallies if it goes tits up and it'll put us in a much weaker negotiating position, whilst achieving absolutely naff all.

[CB Fry]

11 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

In this day and age, we've known it's Martin for a week and the club know we know so why can't they just say "Yeah, it's who you think it is, we've just got to sort out the finer details and we'll confirm probably Saturday morning but definitely by Sunday evening"

But you know it's him already so it doesn't matter.

The club are most likely doing to right thing by Selles, let him manage the team on Sunday and next week do the announcement.

Quite frankly I thought it would be mad to start doing new manager announcements and videos etc etc this week and personally delighted they haven't done it.

The time to look to the future etc is from Monday.

Edited 25 May, 2023 by CB Fry

[goodymatt]

Fabrizio tweeted all was agreed and contract signed etc, he’s usually bang on the money. Perhaps we are waiting for the media stuff to be filmed or even just holding off the announcement until the season is over?

[S-Clarke]

Just now, goodymatt said:

Fabrizio tweeted all was agreed and contract signed etc, he’s usually bang on the money. Perhaps we are waiting for the media stuff to be filmed or even just holding off the announcement until the season is over?

I'd imagine it will be done next week, not sure what benefit it would be to announce it before. Let Ruben see out what he started, then from Tuesday 30th we can start a fresh at all levels.

[Dark Munster]

12 hours ago, Wyn said:

One thing that's easy to forget is just how poor the standard of the Championship is compared to the Premier League. Lots of your players who've struggled this season will suddenly look top drawer dropping down a division.

Cheers Swan's fan for the interesting details of Mr. Martin.

The point above is why I've been arguing that we shouldn't be too quick to get rid AArmstrong. He could be our Tony Funnell/Billy Sharp who isn't PL standard, but could do a job in helping us get promoted.

[wild-saint]

4 hours ago, goodymatt said:

Fabrizio tweeted all was agreed and contract signed etc, he’s usually bang on the money. Perhaps we are waiting for the media stuff to be filmed or even just holding off the announcement until the season is over?

It is done. Starts on Tuesday. Heard from Someone at the club who will be working closely with him.

[the saint in winchester]

13 hours ago, Wyn said:

To re-iterate, I rate Piroe very highly, he's worth at least £20 million in my estimation, but should be available for £12-15 million because of his contractual situation. He's just so composed and precise in front of goal,

We all focus on different things in Wyn's posts, but for me, this is what we need. The very opposite of Adams who gets a rush of blood to the head when he can see the goal.

Yes to Piroe!

[Saint86]

If this deal is as good as done, i can't see why we've not appointed him as early as possible and given him this time with the squad and before the Liverpool game. 

[Dman]

1 minute ago, Saint86 said:

If this deal is as good as done, i can't see why we've not appointed him as early as possible and given him this time with the squad and before the Liverpool game. 

Because Selles is still Employed as manager of the football club, meaning we'd need to pay him compensation. 

 

The squad will also be very different come the start of pre-season. 

Edited 26 May, 2023 by Dman

[Saint86]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

Because Selles is still Employed as manager of the football club, meaning we'd need to pay him compensation. 

His contract is till when, the last game of the season? end of June? How much is he on? We have a huge overhaul ahead of us - all sentiments aside, i personally would want to give the new manager as much of that time as is possible - certainly at the expense of some minor compensation.

Edited 26 May, 2023 by Saint86

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

If this deal is as good as done, i can't see why we've not appointed him as early as possible and given him this time with the squad and before the Liverpool game. 

What exactly does that achieve? He'll get more time to manage Theo/Ely/AMN/Lavia/KWP who won't be here next year?

There's no sense in him overseeing a game this year, it would be bonkers. Let him have a clean break from the carnage that has gone on before. He has an entire pre-season to work with what will in essence be at least 60% new.

[Give it to Ron]

Just now, Saint86 said:

His contract is till when, the last game of the season? end of June? How much is he on? We have a huge overhaul ahead of us, personally i would want to give the new manager as much of that time as is possible. 

How will 1 day impact that ? 
Game Sunday he will start Monday is my guess and he will probably be in contact with Wilcox already.

Whats the point in him managing these players Sunday who the majority won’t be here next season 

[macca155]

1 hour ago, the saint in winchester said:

We all focus on different things in Wyn's posts, but for me, this is what we need. The very opposite of Adams who gets a rush of blood to the head when he can see the goal.

Yes to Piroe!

I'd agree, he looks a good striker, but as I said before Saints don't have room for him at the moment. Currently Adams, Onuachu, Armstrong, Mara, and Ballard are battling for 2 places. Add in Tella, Sulemana, Edozie, Alcaraz, and Olaigbe, who all play in support of the strikers and it is a very crowded part of the squad.

Chances are that will be thinned out with transfers and loans, but quite a few need to resurrect their careers with a decent Championship campaign. If Saints return straight away then they will have a launch pad for their careers. If they are loaned or sold to someone like Sheffield Utd then chances are they'll be back in the Championship next year. Quite the conundrum for their agents. None of them have done enough this year for a big move so they may not be as easy to shift as some seem to think.

The midfield in contrast is already in crisis, and likely to lose it's two most effective players. Essentially Saints will be left with Smallbone. Someone like Grimes is going to be essential and no doubt this is where all the action will be. Doyle looks a good prospect but he will need a protector alongside him.

 

[SwansFan]

I would echo all the thoughts of Wyn.

It is definitely very often possession for the sake of it with very little being created. There were games when we'd have around 70% possession and a handful of shots on target. I think we played Stoke at home and had 3 shots on target in the second half (we were losing at half time) with 73% possession. Russ would come out after that and say that we outplayed them.

His time with us has been characterised by good runs of form and bad runs of form. It seems like once we've got going, we've looked excellent but then we've had a poor result and gone on a bad run and gone back to old ways. I think last season we were pretty much top of the form table, then bottom and then top again. We were looking really good up until a couple of games before the World Cup, then went on a run where we won 3 times in around 20 league games but then finished off with 7 wins and 2 draws from our last 9. There was no real reason for any of this - no injuries to key players coinciding with bad runs of form, etc.

He is also very very stubborn both in terms of moving away from a formation and having his favourite/non favourite players. One player he may well go after who is out of contract is Joel Latibaudiere. He is a bang average championship squad player imo but Martin absolutely adores him for his attitude, etc. If he's starting more than a dozen games for you though, you'll probably be in trouble. He is one of Martin's disciples. As is Grimes.

The club is full of bullshit slogans, etc. which he trots out on a regular basis. Courage and Bravery was a favourite of his, despite us being bottom of the league for blocked shots, blocked crosses, etc. You would rarely see players put their body on the line so presumably he was referring to the suicidal passing around the back that he insisted on, despite the fact we must have conceded half a dozen goals at least from it last season. It's always stuff like them being True to Themselves, Playing their Own Game.. blah blag. Management speak central.

He is also very, very good at the PR game. I've never seen so many dressing room/behind the scenes videos since he came in. It's as if he is also in charge of what goes out on twitter. All playing into a narrative. Wyn mentioned the crap keeper, Andy Fisher (who he signed from MK Dons) - he probably made a major gaff every other game and as soon as he kept a clean sheet Twitter was full of compilation videos of his (very routine) saves from the game. The propaganda from the club has been extraordinary at times.

We posted a video before the first home game of last season against Blackburn with Russ talking about us keeping the ball in that match and running them ragged. "At some point, guess what? They're not gonna be able to run anymore" We lost 3-0. And we lost up there later in the season to an injury time winner.

He messed up his substitution windows against Birmingham this season and we played the last 20 mins with 10 men (at 2-1 up). I don't think he knew the rules. We fell apart and lost 3-2.

He has also had a good relationship with the local press. I am guessing he uses his charm to cuddle up to them. Whilst we were on that run of 3 wins in 20odd games, he was getting questions about when he was signing a new contract. Anyone else would be getting questioned on his future. The one time someone did aim a slightly critical observation, the mask slipped a bit and he was quite nasty.

It seems like he has an ideology of how football should be played and if you don't agree with that, you're wrong. He seems to look down his nose at goals we've conceded from a corner or a long ball, etc. Almost like it somehow doesn't count.

He is very much your modern manager - loves stats, big on players mental health, big on the players enjoying it being the most important thing. At one point he said during a press conference "I am trying my best but that's not enough for some people" - well, it's a results business, Russell! He is big on it being a "process" yet doesn't define what that process is. Given how much he has chopped and changed here at times makes me think it's just a way to buy him more time.

Interestingly, the fanbase seems to be (generally) split between the older and the younger fans in terms of Martin's popularity. The 20 somethings think he's some sort of god. If you're old enough to have enjoyed Martinez or Rodgers you think differently.

He could do well for you purely on the basis that you're probably going to have a great squad. Alternatively, he could be gone by Christmas. The fact that he has been given a shot at a job like this staggers me quite frankly given his record.

I am personally glad to see the back of the insufferable prick. My only concern is who we'll get in to replace him.

[SwansFan]

2 hours ago, the saint in winchester said:

We all focus on different things in Wyn's posts, but for me, this is what we need. The very opposite of Adams who gets a rush of blood to the head when he can see the goal.

Yes to Piroe!

Piroe is brilliant. Probably the most composed and best finisher I've ever seen at the club. Apart from possibly Michu.

Someone earlier in the thread brought up his 2021/22 stats where he scored twice as many as his xG. Take a look at the video of him for that season if there is one available because so many of his goals were fantastic.

He didn't start this season off that well and for the first time did start missing some good chances but he put that behind him. He is one of those players who when he gets a sight of goal you expect him to score. In a team that actually creates chances, he would be deadly.

[macca155]

4 minutes ago, SwansFan said:

In a team that actually creates chances, he would be deadly.

Well that's us stuffed then 😔

Thanks for the info, very detailed. I'm guessing you aren't his no 1 fan. Lets hope he learns and adapts.

I had forgotten how many decent managers you've had, lets hope he's another one. The one bonus of going down is that I can finally do the Swansea away trip. Your ground has eluded me and needs to be chalked off.

[Mixedkebab]

On 20/05/2023 at 20:33, Badger said:

Not sure if intended, or a Freudian slip, but made I laugh...(as I've heard said near Bristol ..)

Grace Jones as his assistant 

[Give it to Ron]

21 minutes ago, SwansFan said:

I would echo all the thoughts of Wyn.

It is definitely very often possession for the sake of it with very little being created. There were games when we'd have around 70% possession and a handful of shots on target. I think we played Stoke at home and had 3 shots on target in the second half (we were losing at half time) with 73% possession. Russ would come out after that and say that we outplayed them.

His time with us has been characterised by good runs of form and bad runs of form. It seems like once we've got going, we've looked excellent but then we've had a poor result and gone on a bad run and gone back to old ways. I think last season we were pretty much top of the form table, then bottom and then top again. We were looking really good up until a couple of games before the World Cup, then went on a run where we won 3 times in around 20 league games but then finished off with 7 wins and 2 draws from our last 9. There was no real reason for any of this - no injuries to key players coinciding with bad runs of form, etc.

He is also very very stubborn both in terms of moving away from a formation and having his favourite/non favourite players. One player he may well go after who is out of contract is Joel Latibaudiere. He is a bang average championship squad player imo but Martin absolutely adores him for his attitude, etc. If he's starting more than a dozen games for you though, you'll probably be in trouble. He is one of Martin's disciples. As is Grimes.

The club is full of bullshit slogans, etc. which he trots out on a regular basis. Courage and Bravery was a favourite of his, despite us being bottom of the league for blocked shots, blocked crosses, etc. You would rarely see players put their body on the line so presumably he was referring to the suicidal passing around the back that he insisted on, despite the fact we must have conceded half a dozen goals at least from it last season. It's always stuff like them being True to Themselves, Playing their Own Game.. blah blag. Management speak central.

He is also very, very good at the PR game. I've never seen so many dressing room/behind the scenes videos since he came in. It's as if he is also in charge of what goes out on twitter. All playing into a narrative. Wyn mentioned the crap keeper, Andy Fisher (who he signed from MK Dons) - he probably made a major gaff every other game and as soon as he kept a clean sheet Twitter was full of compilation videos of his (very routine) saves from the game. The propaganda from the club has been extraordinary at times.

We posted a video before the first home game of last season against Blackburn with Russ talking about us keeping the ball in that match and running them ragged. "At some point, guess what? They're not gonna be able to run anymore" We lost 3-0. And we lost up there later in the season to an injury time winner.

He messed up his substitution windows against Birmingham this season and we played the last 20 mins with 10 men (at 2-1 up). I don't think he knew the rules. We fell apart and lost 3-2.

He has also had a good relationship with the local press. I am guessing he uses his charm to cuddle up to them. Whilst we were on that run of 3 wins in 20odd games, he was getting questions about when he was signing a new contract. Anyone else would be getting questioned on his future. The one time someone did aim a slightly critical observation, the mask slipped a bit and he was quite nasty.

It seems like he has an ideology of how football should be played and if you don't agree with that, you're wrong. He seems to look down his nose at goals we've conceded from a corner or a long ball, etc. Almost like it somehow doesn't count.

He is very much your modern manager - loves stats, big on players mental health, big on the players enjoying it being the most important thing. At one point he said during a press conference "I am trying my best but that's not enough for some people" - well, it's a results business, Russell! He is big on it being a "process" yet doesn't define what that process is. Given how much he has chopped and changed here at times makes me think it's just a way to buy him more time.

Interestingly, the fanbase seems to be (generally) split between the older and the younger fans in terms of Martin's popularity. The 20 somethings think he's some sort of god. If you're old enough to have enjoyed Martinez or Rodgers you think differently.

He could do well for you purely on the basis that you're probably going to have a great squad. Alternatively, he could be gone by Christmas. The fact that he has been given a shot at a job like this staggers me quite frankly given his record.

I am personally glad to see the back of the insufferable prick. My only concern is who we'll get in to replace him.

Cheers for that I bet we are as good as you with that slogan bollox how are you for fireworks and light shows? Just what you need when bottom.

Along with funeral marching bands We March On ….to relegation.

I just hope you dont get Nathan Jones!! You don’t deserve that

[Fan The Flames]

Swansea have had loads of good managers. It will be very Saintsy if we were the one to pull the dud.

I'm torn between thinking that Russ is the next big thing to he is Jones with more charm. Who knows, so I'll reserve judgement.

[Farmer Saint]

38 minutes ago, SwansFan said:

I would echo all the thoughts of Wyn.

It is definitely very often possession for the sake of it with very little being created. There were games when we'd have around 70% possession and a handful of shots on target. I think we played Stoke at home and had 3 shots on target in the second half (we were losing at half time) with 73% possession. Russ would come out after that and say that we outplayed them.

His time with us has been characterised by good runs of form and bad runs of form. It seems like once we've got going, we've looked excellent but then we've had a poor result and gone on a bad run and gone back to old ways. I think last season we were pretty much top of the form table, then bottom and then top again. We were looking really good up until a couple of games before the World Cup, then went on a run where we won 3 times in around 20 league games but then finished off with 7 wins and 2 draws from our last 9. There was no real reason for any of this - no injuries to key players coinciding with bad runs of form, etc.

He is also very very stubborn both in terms of moving away from a formation and having his favourite/non favourite players. One player he may well go after who is out of contract is Joel Latibaudiere. He is a bang average championship squad player imo but Martin absolutely adores him for his attitude, etc. If he's starting more than a dozen games for you though, you'll probably be in trouble. He is one of Martin's disciples. As is Grimes.

The club is full of bullshit slogans, etc. which he trots out on a regular basis. Courage and Bravery was a favourite of his, despite us being bottom of the league for blocked shots, blocked crosses, etc. You would rarely see players put their body on the line so presumably he was referring to the suicidal passing around the back that he insisted on, despite the fact we must have conceded half a dozen goals at least from it last season. It's always stuff like them being True to Themselves, Playing their Own Game.. blah blag. Management speak central.

He is also very, very good at the PR game. I've never seen so many dressing room/behind the scenes videos since he came in. It's as if he is also in charge of what goes out on twitter. All playing into a narrative. Wyn mentioned the crap keeper, Andy Fisher (who he signed from MK Dons) - he probably made a major gaff every other game and as soon as he kept a clean sheet Twitter was full of compilation videos of his (very routine) saves from the game. The propaganda from the club has been extraordinary at times.

We posted a video before the first home game of last season against Blackburn with Russ talking about us keeping the ball in that match and running them ragged. "At some point, guess what? They're not gonna be able to run anymore" We lost 3-0. And we lost up there later in the season to an injury time winner.

He messed up his substitution windows against Birmingham this season and we played the last 20 mins with 10 men (at 2-1 up). I don't think he knew the rules. We fell apart and lost 3-2.

He has also had a good relationship with the local press. I am guessing he uses his charm to cuddle up to them. Whilst we were on that run of 3 wins in 20odd games, he was getting questions about when he was signing a new contract. Anyone else would be getting questioned on his future. The one time someone did aim a slightly critical observation, the mask slipped a bit and he was quite nasty.

It seems like he has an ideology of how football should be played and if you don't agree with that, you're wrong. He seems to look down his nose at goals we've conceded from a corner or a long ball, etc. Almost like it somehow doesn't count.

He is very much your modern manager - loves stats, big on players mental health, big on the players enjoying it being the most important thing. At one point he said during a press conference "I am trying my best but that's not enough for some people" - well, it's a results business, Russell! He is big on it being a "process" yet doesn't define what that process is. Given how much he has chopped and changed here at times makes me think it's just a way to buy him more time.

Interestingly, the fanbase seems to be (generally) split between the older and the younger fans in terms of Martin's popularity. The 20 somethings think he's some sort of god. If you're old enough to have enjoyed Martinez or Rodgers you think differently.

He could do well for you purely on the basis that you're probably going to have a great squad. Alternatively, he could be gone by Christmas. The fact that he has been given a shot at a job like this staggers me quite frankly given his record.

I am personally glad to see the back of the insufferable prick. My only concern is who we'll get in to replace him.

So you rate him then? 

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, Saint86 said:

If this deal is as good as done, i can't see why we've not appointed him as early as possible and given him this time with the squad and before the Liverpool game. 

that would be a terrible idea for many reasons

[CB Fry]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

that would be a terrible idea for many reasons

Honestly would be mental thing to do.

We end up with a “ha ha ha four managers in one season” tag forever, Martin risks a home tonking in his first game setting him back from the get go, even if we scrape a draw or fluke a win so what - the whole team will change….

I can see not one upside to doing it. Not one, just pointless.

[Wade Garrett]

Cheaper season tickets, an owner who wants us to go up straight away, a new manager that’s going to have us playing total football like the Dutch side of the 70’s, a good few of the wankers out on the pitch this season going, and we’re going to fucking destroy the Championship.

What’s not to like?

Ee-aye-ee-aye-ee-aye-oo

up the football league we go……

Come on you fucking Saints.

[FarehamSaintJames]

I think he’ll be announced somewhere within a week after the season ends.

I’m sure Wilcox has already come up with a released/retainer list. That’ll probably be announced after the final game, maybe next Monday.

Then those that are going to be part of his squad going forward will report for pre-season late June. Those that he isn’t interested in I imagine will be frozen out immediately and the club will look to shift them on.

[woodsaint1]

1 hour ago, SwansFan said:

I would echo all the thoughts of Wyn.

It is definitely very often possession for the sake of it with very little being created. There were games when we'd have around 70% possession and a handful of shots on target. I think we played Stoke at home and had 3 shots on target in the second half (we were losing at half time) with 73% possession. Russ would come out after that and say that we outplayed them.

His time with us has been characterised by good runs of form and bad runs of form. It seems like once we've got going, we've looked excellent but then we've had a poor result and gone on a bad run and gone back to old ways. I think last season we were pretty much top of the form table, then bottom and then top again. We were looking really good up until a couple of games before the World Cup, then went on a run where we won 3 times in around 20 league games but then finished off with 7 wins and 2 draws from our last 9. There was no real reason for any of this - no injuries to key players coinciding with bad runs of form, etc.

He is also very very stubborn both in terms of moving away from a formation and having his favourite/non favourite players. One player he may well go after who is out of contract is Joel Latibaudiere. He is a bang average championship squad player imo but Martin absolutely adores him for his attitude, etc. If he's starting more than a dozen games for you though, you'll probably be in trouble. He is one of Martin's disciples. As is Grimes.

The club is full of bullshit slogans, etc. which he trots out on a regular basis. Courage and Bravery was a favourite of his, despite us being bottom of the league for blocked shots, blocked crosses, etc. You would rarely see players put their body on the line so presumably he was referring to the suicidal passing around the back that he insisted on, despite the fact we must have conceded half a dozen goals at least from it last season. It's always stuff like them being True to Themselves, Playing their Own Game.. blah blag. Management speak central.

He is also very, very good at the PR game. I've never seen so many dressing room/behind the scenes videos since he came in. It's as if he is also in charge of what goes out on twitter. All playing into a narrative. Wyn mentioned the crap keeper, Andy Fisher (who he signed from MK Dons) - he probably made a major gaff every other game and as soon as he kept a clean sheet Twitter was full of compilation videos of his (very routine) saves from the game. The propaganda from the club has been extraordinary at times.

We posted a video before the first home game of last season against Blackburn with Russ talking about us keeping the ball in that match and running them ragged. "At some point, guess what? They're not gonna be able to run anymore" We lost 3-0. And we lost up there later in the season to an injury time winner.

He messed up his substitution windows against Birmingham this season and we played the last 20 mins with 10 men (at 2-1 up). I don't think he knew the rules. We fell apart and lost 3-2.

He has also had a good relationship with the local press. I am guessing he uses his charm to cuddle up to them. Whilst we were on that run of 3 wins in 20odd games, he was getting questions about when he was signing a new contract. Anyone else would be getting questioned on his future. The one time someone did aim a slightly critical observation, the mask slipped a bit and he was quite nasty.

It seems like he has an ideology of how football should be played and if you don't agree with that, you're wrong. He seems to look down his nose at goals we've conceded from a corner or a long ball, etc. Almost like it somehow doesn't count.

He is very much your modern manager - loves stats, big on players mental health, big on the players enjoying it being the most important thing. At one point he said during a press conference "I am trying my best but that's not enough for some people" - well, it's a results business, Russell! He is big on it being a "process" yet doesn't define what that process is. Given how much he has chopped and changed here at times makes me think it's just a way to buy him more time.

Interestingly, the fanbase seems to be (generally) split between the older and the younger fans in terms of Martin's popularity. The 20 somethings think he's some sort of god. If you're old enough to have enjoyed Martinez or Rodgers you think differently.

He could do well for you purely on the basis that you're probably going to have a great squad. Alternatively, he could be gone by Christmas. The fact that he has been given a shot at a job like this staggers me quite frankly given his record.

I am personally glad to see the back of the insufferable prick. My only concern is who we'll get in to replace him.

Here we go again......

[SwansFan]

5 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Well that's us stuffed then 😔

Thanks for the info, very detailed. I'm guessing you aren't his no 1 fan. Lets hope he learns and adapts.

I had forgotten how many decent managers you've had, lets hope he's another one. The one bonus of going down is that I can finally do the Swansea away trip. Your ground has eluded me and needs to be chalked off.

I suppose I am slightly biased in as much as I really don't like the bloke. I find him like a smug, used car salesman. 

[Saint86]

5 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Here we go again......

From the swans fans, he sounds like a but of a claude Puel clone that can't break down defensive sides - which we'll face a lot of given we'll presumably be the big fish with higher quality players etc. Surely he'll be less likely to put us to sleep during an interview / press conference though, so that's a positive at least.