Russell Martin

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

Stick an 18 year old in a position he's never played before in his first season as a first team player to keep a promoted side up. 

You keep spending your day telling the professional football manager with a promotion on his CV how he sets his team up all wrong pal whilst also pleaing that "all sides have their merit" at the very top of this page  

How do you know Dibling has never played centre forward? Presumably you closely follow every B Team match? Nah, thought not - you are just making things up. Just because RM is a professional manager doesn't mean his tactics etc must be followed like a sycophant - if he was always right I think we'd have more than one point on the board from the teams we've played so far. You are quite entitled to be satisfied with this and equally, others like me are entitled to express dissatisfaction. ☺️

[Lee On Solent Saint]

28 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Hang on a minute. This is an out of date criticism of AR  and RM.  I think you are several matches at least out of date. Basically sinceRamsdale started..

Very first minute yesterday ball came to him and he put it in row Z as he should. No faffing. I thought to myself- message understood.
 

Im the biggest critic of six yard /penalty area faffing around but AR regularly hit long balls.,he also passed short when it suite HIM.
 

There’s been an understanding that iexclusive use of gk short pass has cost us more goals than anything positive.

RM may have given that instruction to him but I also think Aaron is senior pro enough to tell RM how he is gonna play - and it’s not like Alex or Gav basically - it’s way way more secure and a big improvement. 
You basically picked the wrong stick to beat RM with. Of many available you picked one that’s not valid anymore! 

There's no doubting Ramsdale is a huge improvement on Baz and McCarthy, however there were kicks yesterday that went straight to Ipswich players around the midfield area. I'm not sure Ramsdale is all that with his feet, but I'd rather have him in goal than the afore mentioned. He can actually save shots and that is what we have been lacking for the past few seasons, Typical that we finally get a decent keeper in, but we still end up getting relegated dur to our other shortfalls.

[S-Clarke]

7 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

There's no doubting Ramsdale is a huge improvement on Baz and McCarthy, however there were kicks yesterday that went straight to Ipswich players around the midfield area. I'm not sure Ramsdale is all that with his feet, but I'd rather have him in goal than the afore mentioned. He can actually save shots and that is what we have been lacking for the past few seasons, Typical that we finally get a decent keeper in, but we still end up getting relegated dur to our other shortfalls.

I'd argue that even if Ramsdale did start giving up goals because he's playing like that, he'd still prevent a hell of a lot more than Bazunu did. Simply any shot on target was a goal with Bazunu.

It's nice to have a GK who can save shots again. That's why having Alex back in the side was so refreshing at the back end of last season, he's not the greatest by any means, but still a better option than Bazunu ever was.

Edited 22 September, 2024 by S-Clarke

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Not really, we knew when we signed him that his fitness was almost non-existent, he’s the last player you want on the pitch defending a lead like we were. I’d much rather Les was on the pitch. As for the rest of our bulk-subs, Fraser was doing very little and Stewart on for Archer hardly felt like a downgrade. We played better after those subs than we did for most of the first half, when Ipswich were all over us.

I must have been at a different game.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

16 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I'd argue that even if Ramsdale did start giving up goals because he's playing like that, he'd still prevent a hell of a lot more than Bazunu did. Simply any shot on target was a goal with Bazunu.

It's nice to have a GK who can save shots again. That's why having Alex back in the side was so refreshing at the back end of last season, he's not the greatest by any means, but still a better option than Bazunu ever was.

He can boot it into row z everytime for all I care, the difference between him and Baz is day and night.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, Wade Garrett said:

I must have been at a different game.

The Stewart sub was pointless. Archer was putting himself about and was giving the Ipswich defence something to think about. 

[Wade Garrett]

3 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

The Stewart sub was pointless. Archer was putting himself about and was giving the Ipswich defence something to think about. 

Stewart got beaten for a header by a 5ft 7 left back.  

[The Cat]

55 minutes ago, saintant said:

How do you know Dibling has never played centre forward? Presumably you closely follow every B Team match? Nah, thought not - you are just making things up. Just because RM is a professional manager doesn't mean his tactics etc must be followed like a sycophant - if he was always right I think we'd have more than one point on the board from the teams we've played so far. You are quite entitled to be satisfied with this and equally, others like me are entitled to express dissatisfaction. ☺️

Dibling has not played as a CF. If you want to look back at old U21 games and line ups to disprove that then feel free.

For most of his time as a youth he's played with Dom Ballard as the CF, then Luke Pearce and then latterly Ehibhatiomhan.

He plays wide in an attacking 3, in midfield behind them or as a 10. Not a CF.

[Saint_clark]

37 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Stewart got beaten for a header by a 5ft 7 left back.  

Not that surprising considering he's a league one player. 

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

How do you know Dibling has never played centre forward? Presumably you closely follow every B Team match? Nah, thought not - you are just making things up. Just because RM is a professional manager doesn't mean his tactics etc must be followed like a sycophant - if he was always right I think we'd have more than one point on the board from the teams we've played so far. You are quite entitled to be satisfied with this and equally, others like me are entitled to express dissatisfaction. ☺️

Yes, there are only two options. Either I've closely followed every B team match or I've just made it up. There is no other conceivable reason as to why I might think Tyler Dibling is a wide player or central midfielder. None at all. 

Oh by the way, you're entitled to be dissatisfied and nobody said anything about following stuff like a sycophant but if you continue to post stupid stuff people will probably call you out on it.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, Bob60 said:

Glad you have given him a decent run of games to decide! 

People also saying we don't sign decent players and mention Pelle, he took quite a while to get going. 

 

 

He scored in his third game, and scored 4 in his first 5. 

[derry]

When we were going for the play offs under Burley we played Southend, they weren't very good and we won easily in the end. However they caused us all sorts of problems at our corners because they left three quick players up on the halfway line. Our panic was evident. If I was a defender our midfielders and forwards are the last people I'd want in our box. Far better to leave three of the quickest ones up on the halfway line. Personally I'd go with three but as we don't have one I suppose that is a bit much for this manager.. If say Archer, Dibling and one other depending who is playing up were put on the halfway line plus say Fernandez halfway I'd be very surprised if that didn't take half of the opponents team back into their own half. Managers would be terrified of a break.

At that stage of the game tippy tappy is inappropriate time to put a boot through it, pure route one with players up. Then everybody out and fill the midfield.

Edited 22 September, 2024 by derry

[Patches O Houlihan]

14 minutes ago, derry said:

When we were going for the play offs under Burley we played Southend, they weren't very good and we won easily in the end. However they caused us all sorts of problems at our corners because they left three quick players up on the halfway line. Our panic was evident. If I was a defender our midfielders and forwards are the last people I'd want in our box. Far better to leave three of the quickest ones up on the halfway line. Personally I'd go with three but as we don't have one I suppose that is a bit much for this manager.. If say Archer, Dibling and one other depending who is playing up were put on the halfway line plus say Fernandez halfway I'd be very surprised if that didn't take half of the opponents team back into their own half. Managers would be terrified of a break.

There is a precedent for this of course 😁

But if you look closely we had no one in the D on that occasion either... Everyone was back defending because we were in injury time and were effectively 1-0 up.

Edited 22 September, 2024 by Patches O Houlihan

[obelisk]

18 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

There is a precedent for this of course 😁

But if you look closely we had no one in the D on that occasion either... Everyone was back defending because we were in injury time and were effectively 1-0 up.

Liverpool also had nobody in or near the D either by the look of it. Let that be a lesson to them.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

It's quite interesting. There's similarities between the last time we got relegated from the premier league and now. Ralph wasn't given a striker and we haven't got one now. Ralph had to rely on a dynamic kid midfielder (Lavia) who then got injured and now we've got a young defensive midfielder (Les).

But there the similarities end. I hated that team. You could tell it was a bunch of journeymen with no team spirit. Ely, Diallo, Salisu, Djenepo et al. All crap. This time, I detect a team spirit. I think Ramsdale, Fernandes, Suguwara, Downes, THB, Les are good additions. And when you consider the first three games and the last two, there's been a distinct improvement.

RM no longer directs us to play suicide ball . Not defending a corner properly is not RM's fault. That's the players and the set piece coaches. Personally, I want to see a release from corners standing between the penalty area and the half way line and of course you mark the guy standing on the edge of the area. That's basic defending but not RM's fault.

We're getting better and with so much flotsam at the bottom of the league, we've the players to stay in this league. 

[Whitey Grandad]

11 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

It's quite interesting. There's similarities between the last time we got relegated from the premier league and now. Ralph wasn't given a striker and we haven't got one now. Ralph had to rely on a dynamic kid midfielder (Lavia) who then got injured and now we've got a young defensive midfielder (Les).

But there the similarities end. I hated that team. You could tell it was a bunch of journeymen with no team spirit. Ely, Diallo, Salisu, Djenepo et al. All crap. This time, I detect a team spirit. I think Ramsdale, Fernandes, Suguwara, Downes, THB, Les are good additions. And when you consider the first three games and the last two, there's been a distinct improvement.

RM no longer directs us to play suicide ball . Not defending a corner properly is not RM's fault. That's the players and the set piece coaches. Personally, I want to see a release from corners standing between the penalty area and the half way line and of course you mark the guy standing on the edge of the area. That's basic defending but not RM's fault.

We're getting better and with so much flotsam at the bottom of the league, we've the players to stay in this league. 

I think it is...

[derry]

6 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

It's quite interesting. There's similarities between the last time we got relegated from the premier league and now. Ralph wasn't given a striker and we haven't got one now. Ralph had to rely on a dynamic kid midfielder (Lavia) who then got injured and now we've got a young defensive midfielder (Les).

But there the similarities end. I hated that team. You could tell it was a bunch of journeymen with no team spirit. Ely, Diallo, Salisu, Djenepo et al. All crap. This time, I detect a team spirit. I think Ramsdale, Fernandes, Suguwara, Downes, THB, Les are good additions. And when you consider the first three games and the last two, there's been a distinct improvement.

RM no longer directs us to play suicide ball . Not defending a corner properly is not RM's fault. That's the players and the set piece coaches. Personally, I want to see a release from corners standing between the penalty area and the half way line and of course you mark the guy standing on the edge of the area. That's basic defending but not RM's fault.

We're getting better and with so much flotsam at the bottom of the league, we've the players to stay in this league. 

That was Kamikaze defending. Our defending on corners and free kicks is a nonsense. We don't need zonal marking, Use the best headers to attack the cross, leave three forwards out, That leaves four to mark up, If we left three up my bet is the opposition will keep four back together with one or two half way. that leaves four to mark four plus three best headers free to attack the ball. Sticking ten bodies in the box and allowing 8/9 attackers in there is just stupid. Together with the fact Morsey has grabbed late goals on more than one occasion last season.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

10 minutes ago, derry said:

That was Kamikaze defending. Our defending on corners and free kicks is a nonsense. We don't need zonal marking, Use the best headers to attack the cross, leave three forwards out, That leaves four to mark up, If we left three up my bet is the opposition will keep four back together with one or two half way. that leaves four to mark four plus three best headers free to attack the ball. Sticking ten bodies in the box and allowing 8/9 attackers in there is just stupid. Together with the fact Morsey has grabbed late goals on more than one occasion last season.

I agree. You're inviting trouble putting everyone in the box. A couple of players waiting for the quick release and the opposition sits back more. The penalty area becomes less crowded and the goalkeeper has more control. And we've got a goalie who controls the 6 yard area.

[Saint_clark]

Watching City v Arsenal, I can't wait to see what they do to us. 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Watching City v Arsenal, I can't wait to see what they do to us. 

Haven't worked out why but comparatively we play ok against the better teams. Maybe their more open style suits us but we did the double against Chelsea two years ago and didn't we draw at Maine Road?

[Football Special]

1 minute ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Haven't worked out why but comparatively we play ok against the better teams. Maybe their more open style suits us but we did the double against Chelsea two years ago and didn't we draw at Maine Road?

No but we did draw with Arsenal twice and really should have won away having been 3-1 up with a couple of mins to go. 

I don't doubt we'll lose to these teams but find the desire some like Saint_clark seem to have to see us destroyed so they can wallow in Martin blame is a bit odd. 

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, Football Special said:

No but we did draw with Arsenal twice and really should have won away having been 3-1 up with a couple of mins to go. 

I don't doubt we'll lose to these teams but find the desire some like Saint_clark seem to have to see us destroyed so they can wallow in Martin blame is a bit odd. 

My post was sarcastic. Of course I'm not looking forward to being torn apart and having to put up with piss taking from armchair fans who only look up from their phones to watch the replay of their teams goals.

[Saint_clark]

10 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Haven't worked out why but comparatively we play ok against the better teams. Maybe their more open style suits us but we did the double against Chelsea two years ago and didn't we draw at Maine Road?

Different manager completely different style.

[verlaine1979]

Is Jan Bednarek better at passing than most PL attackers are at pressing?

If the answer to that question is "no" (and it is - he's proven himself a carthorse with the ball at his feet over multiple seasons) then we have picked fundamentally the wrong tactical approach in seeking to draw teams onto us. It's as simple as that.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Different manager completely different style.

But don't you think RM is changing his style? Aaron Ramsdale tried a couple of short passes against Ipswich which put us on the back foot but also mixed it up with punts to the forwards. I'm definitely seeing a change in style with the way we played against Utd and Ipswich and frankly, that gives me a little more hope.

[East Kent Saint]

If Saints signed Haarland how many goals would have scored 10 or 100 ?

[skintsaint]

13 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

If Saints signed Haarland how many goals would have scored 10 or 100 ?

Would have had a field day in the championship to be fair so reckon at least 50.

[Oldandtired]

17 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

 

We're getting better and with so much flotsam at the bottom of the league, we've the players to stay in this league. 

So….if, as according to you, we have the players to stay in the league but are still struggling at the bottom both in terms of position and, in my opinion, style of play, where does the responsibility lie? 
 

Couldn’t possibly be the aforementioned style of play our manager dictates could it? I can only judge on what I’ve seen at St. Mary’s so far this season, and the politest way I can put it is that, again in my opinion, the way we are playing atm is too naive to survive. I am very apprehensive about our fixtures against the better teams in the division but, as always with Saints, hope for the best, fear the worst.

Edited 23 September, 2024 by Oldandtired

[Whitey Grandad]

11 minutes ago, Oldandtired said:

So….if, as according to you, we have the players to stay in the league but are still struggling at the bottom both in terms of position and, in my opinion, style of play, where does the responsibility lie? 
 

Couldn’t possibly be the aforementioned style of play our manager dictates could it? I can only judge on what I’ve seen at St. Mary’s so far this season, and the politest way I can put it is that, again in my opinion, the way we are playing atm is too naive to survive. I am very apprehensive about our fixtures against the better teams in the division but, as always with Saints, hope for the best, fear the worst.

Naive is a kind way of putting it. How about foolish, idiotic, pointless, stupid…

[East Kent Saint]

Even Pep is using the long ball into Haaland !

Edited 24 September, 2024 by East Kent Saint

[SambaMaverick]

Just seen there's a Russell Martin XI charity match at SMS in three weeks. What sort of club backs themselves into a corner like that? Odd.

Edited 23 September, 2024 by SambaMaverick

[Dman]

3 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

Just seen there's a Russell Martin XI charity match at SMS in three weeks. What sort of club backs themselves into a corner like that? Odd.

TBH, I think he'll be here for the next 5 or 6, which are going to be piviotal to our survial chances this season. 

Bmouth, Arsenal, Leciester, City, Everton, Wolves. 

If hes still here come Wolves 9th Novemeber, we'd have either won a couple or that will be his last game. We have to be picking 7 or 8 points minimum from that lot (I don't think we will), or theres a chance we'll be down by Christmas. 

[SambaMaverick]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

TBH, I think he'll be here for the next 5 or 6, which are going to be piviotal to our survial chances this season. 

Bmouth, Arsenal, Leciester, City, Everton, Wolves. 

If hes still here come Wolves 9th Novemeber, we'd have either won a couple or that will be his last game. We have to be picking 7 or 8 points minimum from that lot (I don't think we will), or theres a chance we'll be down by Christmas. 

Yeah, I'd be happy with seven points from that lot. Ambitious, but that's just what we need to have a chance.

But what if we'd started even worse (hard to see how that's possible) and there was this charity game on the slate? Hard to see how that wouldn't enter the thought process in the boardroom and just comes across as incredibly naive.

[SaintsBarry74]

We have the 2nd highest possession in the premier league, surely we should be able to convert that dominance into some points?

[Turkish]

On 21/09/2024 at 18:10, Patches O Houlihan said:

I see the usual gang are back on this thread. This is my thought

If we replayed that game with a Lambert, Ings or Pelle as our striker we likely win 2-0 or 3-0 

Striker recruitment, not team selection and tactics was the issue today.

one was a slow, lazy fucker who couldn't run, one was a crock who Liverpool ripped us off for the other was a statue who flounced around more worried about his hair than scoring. 

[Raging Bull]

27 minutes ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

We have the 2nd highest possession in the premier league, surely we should be able to convert that dominance into some points?

Not from our own half we won’t. We’ve scored twice. 

[Whitey Grandad]

47 minutes ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

We have the 2nd highest possession in the premier league, surely we should be able to convert that dominance into some points?

Possession doesn't lead to points unless you try to score.

[The Left Back]

I've got a golden rule that served me well in those many years where every season seemed to be a battle to stay up.

Basically don't look at the table until the 10-game mark.  It's only then that you can start to get a clear picture where us (and most others) may end up.  

It takes a lot of the stress out of being a Saints fan and prevents the need to be constantly washing the bed sheets in September and October.

Happy to help.

[danjosaint]

2 hours ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

We have the 2nd highest possession in the premier league, surely we should be able to convert that dominance into some points?

We will when Bednarek can put them in from 80yrds 

[Wade Garrett]

11 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

If Saints signed Haarland how many goals would have scored 10 or 100 ?

Haarland?  Are you Mick Channon?

[CB Fry]

3 hours ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

We have the 2nd highest possession in the premier league, surely we should be able to convert that dominance into some points?

Because little triangles between the centre backs and the goalkeeper is not dominance at all. 

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

3 hours ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

We have the 2nd highest possession in the premier league, surely we should be able to convert that dominance into some points?

The issue is two fold;

1      Passing the ball around so much allows the opposition's defence to organise and prepare for any attack we do eventually launch.

2     Passing the ball around our defence results in three or four errors and inevitably opposition goals

Edited 23 September, 2024 by Sergei Gotsmanov

[saintant]

3 hours ago, SaintsBarry74 said:

We have the 2nd highest possession in the premier league, surely we should be able to convert that dominance into some points?

I wonder how much of that possession is in our own half - most of it I would imagine. Propaganda football.

[verlaine1979]

The comparisons with City are just bonkers. Their CBs pass it about amongst themselves on the halfway line. That's not even close to what we try to do, which looks more like a frantic game of defense vs attack on a 3-a-side pitch. 

[Andrew Watson]

I do not dislike the manager as a human being,but am not in any way or form enamoured with his management skills. The one proviso is that I doubt there is one manager any where who can teach our woeful strike force how to hit the back of the net. Dibling as a very talented 18 year old cannot be expected to bail out 3 of the worst forwards to ever appear in the premier league.

[leeham_69]

4 hours ago, The Left Back said:

I've got a golden rule that served me well in those many years where every season seemed to be a battle to stay up.

Basically don't look at the table until the 10-game mark.  It's only then that you can start to get a clear picture where us (and most others) may end up.  

It takes a lot of the stress out of being a Saints fan and prevents the need to be constantly washing the bed sheets in September and October.

Happy to help.

But washing your sheets occasionally is a good idea, just generally speaking  

[Winnersaint]

I think Bournemouth is crucial for RM. With a potential free hit the following game against Arsenal if SR were going to look at things differently (not saying they should, but there are press rumblings) then with the second international break it could be an opportune moment to make a switch.

[pimpin4rizeal]

18 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

The issue is two fold;

1      Passing the ball around so much allows the opposition's defence to organise and prepare for any attack we do eventually launch.

2     Passing the ball around our defence results in three or four errors and inevitably opposition goals

Totally this .. I don’t have any faith in him turning it around to be honest .: he’s totally married to this philosophy. Being poor at both ends is a big issue 

I’d personally rather we got someone like Rodger’s or moyes .. last thing we need is another out of his depth  championship manager 

Edited 24 September, 2024 by pimpin4rizeal

[Mr X]

Martin's honeymoon period is over he has to go when we lose to Bournemouth. Not sure the owner/sports republic are strong enough to make the right decision soon enough though! From their actions and the signings they are already planning  for next season in the championship 

Edited 24 September, 2024 by Mr X

[hypochondriac]

I think that maybe the step up from championship to prem was bigger than many expected and I'd say that applies to both players and manager. Whether they can adapt remains to be seen.