Russell Martin

[hypochondriac]

54 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Er no. 

 

Inside word is that promotion last season really pissed Dragan off. “Fuming” is how one Staplewood source described Dragan’s mood. 

The potential for two relegations in three years probably doesn't make him thrilled. 

Edited September 20 by hypochondriac

[notnowcato]

33 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

The potential for two relegations in three years probably doesn't make him thrilled. 

Obviously not but it’s an outcome that is probable. Should we beat the odds then he’ll be delighted. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Er no. 

 

Inside word is that promotion last season really pissed Dragan off. “Fuming” is how one Staplewood source described Dragan’s mood. 

What does 'Er no' mean? If you disagree with me why not make your case. 'Er no' tells me nothing.

[hypochondriac]

35 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Obviously not but it’s an outcome that is probable. Should we beat the odds then he’ll be delighted. 

Again it's the manner of relegation though isn't it. I don't see how Martin can retain any credibility if he continues to get smashed every week and remaining uncompetitive. 

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Obviously not but it’s an outcome that is probable. Should we beat the odds then he’ll be delighted. 

I miss the days of the takeover of SR was supposed to establish us at the upper half of the Premier League.

I didn't realise that has now been scaled down to happy to be here Blackpool/Luton/etc where we will be "delighted" to beat the odds.

Surely the whole point of Rasmus being here is because Brentford came up and stayed up. What were/are we hiring people like Jason Wilcox for? Not to be delighted to stay up but to be an established Premier League club.

 

[notnowcato]

38 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Again it's the manner of relegation though isn't it. I don't see how Martin can retain any credibility if he continues to get smashed every week and remaining uncompetitive. 

Again, you’re getting a bit excited. We’re 2 shit passes and a terrible penalty away from having a reasonable start to the season. Fundamental elements of playing football as a professional footballer. Those elements are not to do with formation, philosophy, picking the “right” players etc. 

[SambaMaverick]

1 minute ago, notnowcato said:

Again, you’re getting a bit excited. We’re 2 shit passes and a terrible penalty away from having a reasonable start to the season. Fundamental elements of playing football as a professional footballer. Those elements are not to do with formation, philosophy, picking the “right” players etc. 

We would've been dicked by United regardless and Newcastle would've turned us over without the red. How do you explain away the Brentford and Forest performances?

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

I miss the days of the takeover of SR was supposed to establish us at the upper half of the Premier League.

I didn't realise that has now been scaled down to happy to be here Blackpool/Luton/etc where we will be "delighted" to beat the odds.

Surely the whole point of Rasmus being here is because Brentford came up and stayed up. What were/are we hiring people like Jason Wilcox for? Not to be delighted to stay up but to be an established Premier League club.

 

What is your point? Because you’re sounding a bit flaky. 

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, SambaMaverick said:

We would've been dicked by United regardless and Newcastle would've turned us over without the red. How do you explain away the Brentford and Forest performances?

Lots of “woulds” making up your argument. 

[notnowcato]

55 minutes ago, saintant said:

What does 'Er no' mean? If you disagree with me why not make your case. 'Er no' tells me nothing.

Your idea is so stupid I can’t be arsed

[SambaMaverick]

1 minute ago, notnowcato said:

Lots of “woulds” making up your argument. 

And a lot of excuses making up yours, so there we go

[petermcpete]

1 minute ago, notnowcato said:

Lots of “woulds” making up your argument. 

Not really "woulds", getting dicked by United and beat by Newcastle was what actually happened.

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, SambaMaverick said:

And a lot of excuses making up yours, so there we go

facts actually but there you go

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, petermcpete said:

Not really "woulds", getting dicked by United and beat by Newcastle was what actually happened.

Re read my friend

[SambaMaverick]

1 minute ago, notnowcato said:

facts actually but there you go

Not sure what two shit passes you're even talking about but even without the McCarthy clusterfuck, we COULD have one point from four games. The Brentford and Forest losses were absolutely 100% down to tactics from RM.

[CB Fry]

11 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

What is your point? Because you’re sounding a bit flaky. 

Pretty easy. You're saying Dragan would be delighted to stay up against the odds. I'm saying he would be expecting to stay up (because he didn't expect to go down two years ago).

That's the point.

[saintant]

11 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Your idea is so stupid I can’t be arsed

You're clearly very clever and far more so than most. Well done.

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Again, you’re getting a bit excited. We’re 2 shit passes and a terrible penalty away from having a reasonable start to the season. Fundamental elements of playing football as a professional footballer. Those elements are not to do with formation, philosophy, picking the “right” players etc. 

I'm not getting excited at all and I'd appreciate Less of the patronising tone or we can just end the conversation here. I simply don't agree with you that those three things have been the cause of our poor start. We haven't been competitive for large parts of these early games and I don't want that trend to continue. Certainly against forest and Brentford and a large part of the United game. 

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

Pretty easy. You're saying Dragan would be delighted to stay up against the odds. I'm saying he would be expecting to stay up (because he didn't expect to go down two years ago).

That's the point.

Not sure he can expect to stay up - if he does he's pretty deluded. We've got a team devoid of PL quality (2 players currently I'd say) and a Manager with an inconsistent philosophy (results wise).

[saintant]

17 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

What is your point? Because you’re sounding a bit flaky. 

As are you.

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Pretty easy. You're saying Dragan would be delighted to stay up against the odds. I'm saying he would be expecting to stay up (because he didn't expect to go down two years ago).

That's the point.

We may see what his expectation is if we are without any points from the next three or four games. If his attitude is that relegation is the expectation then we will just carry on. 

[saintant]

12 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

facts actually but there you go

Not facts just your own views on what might have happened if certain occurrences had transpired. To claim them as facts is stupid.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

23 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Pretty easy. You're saying Dragan would be delighted to stay up against the odds. I'm saying he would be expecting to stay up (because he didn't expect to go down two years ago).

That's the point.

I can't understand why some of our fans are just accepting relegation as a certainity. You would think we are a tinpot club after our first promotion to the big leagues judging by the comments on here, sort of thing I would have expected to hear on the Luton boards last season. I'm nearly 51, and the majority of those years have seen us as a Division One or Premier League club. We aren't a bad squad, I believe with a manager who knows what he was doing in terms of organisation and in game management we would be at least competitive. SR have options, they just need to give us the best chance of avoiding relegation. At the moment that doesn't seem likely with Martin in charge.

[Farmer Saint]

3 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I can't understand why some of our fans are just accepting relegation as a certainity. You would think we are a tinpot club after our first promotion to the big leagues judging by the comments on here, sort of thing I would have expected to hear on the Luton boards last season. I'm nearly 51, and the majority of those years have seen us as a Division One or Premier League club. We aren't a bad squad, I believe with a manager who knows what he was doing in terms of organisation and in game management we would be at least competitive. SR have options, they just need to give us the best chance of avoiding relegation. At the moment that doesn't seem likely with Martin in charge.

We have a team of good Championship players and two proven PL players (Ramsdale and KWP). That just doesn't cut it in the PL, sorry. I'm sure we will be become more competitive, but still not competitive enough to be anything other than bottom 3.

Edited September 20 by Farmer Saint

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

We have a team of good Championship players and two proven PL players (Ramsdale and KWP). That just doesn't cut it in the PL, sorry. I'm sure we will be become more competitive, but still not competitive enough to be anything other than bottom 3.

Not disagreeing that we lack a bit of quality, but when a squad lacks that, a manager finds other ways to compensate for that lack of quality. Martin does not have that in his locker. 

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Not disagreeing that we lack a bit of quality, but when a squad lacks that, a manager finds other ways to compensate for that lack of quality. Martin does not have that in his locker. 

But I think it depends on how much quality it has to make up for. 

Dont get me wrong, we've not been good so far this season, but we also had patches like this last season and we ended up doing better than I expected, certainly. 

Edited September 20 by Farmer Saint

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

But I think it depends on how much quality it has to make up for. 

Dont get me wrong, we've not been good so far this season, but we also had patches like this last season and we ended up doing better than I expected, certainly. 

The shortfall between quality and quantity is obvioulsy stark, and you do get exposed for it in the PL. However, Martin is not helping us to become a coherent or competitive team. He's reactive to situations in the main. No subs against Forest until they scored, four subs in one hit against Uniited. Am not sure how you can make four subs in one go and still be expected to know what you are doing. It just causes issues all over the pitch with players unsure what they are supposed to be doing. The only real time he has been proactive with subs was against Brentford, which again was probably forced as Armstrong's confidence after that miss would have been on the floor. We need to really focus on making the games as difficult as we can for opponents, be solid, be hard to break down and make opposing players work for goals instead of just gifting them chances. We are far too easy to play against, and that is a direct result of Martin and his obession with his brand of football. SR need to give this squad a chance of avoiding relegation. In my opinion the only chance we have is ditching Martin. 

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

The shortfall between quality and quantity is obvioulsy stark, and you do get exposed for it in the PL. However, Martin is not helping us to become a coherent or competitive team. He's reactive to situations in the main. No subs against Forest until they scored, four subs in one hit against Uniited. Am not sure how you can make four subs in one go and still be expected to know what you are doing. It just causes issues all over the pitch with players unsure what they are supposed to be doing. The only real time he has been proactive with subs was against Brentford, which again was probably forced as Armstrong's confidence after that miss would have been on the floor. We need to really focus on making the games as difficult as we can for opponents, be solid, be hard to break down and make opposing players work for goals instead of just gifting them chances. We are far too easy to play against, and that is a direct result of Martin and his obession with his brand of football. SR need to give this squad a chance of avoiding relegation. In my opinion the only chance we have is ditching Martin. 

I do disagree with your conclusion, but that is an excellent post all the same. 

[kitch]

17 hours ago, Mr X said:

I wonder what the club saw that convinced them to get Martin to sign for another three years? I would have thought promotion through the playoffs was the minimum the owners would have wanted and they'd seen nothing to suggest he could cut it at premier league level when we barely got through the playoffs.  I guess they want stability etc that old chestnut.

Pretty sure we aren't going to afford to pay off three years of compensation so maybe there's a performance get out clause in his contract? 

I've got a hunch it was part of the initial contract to commit to renegociate a better deal for RM and his staff if we were promoted. Just something I've wondered, not rooted in fact at all.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

Pretty easy. You're saying Dragan would be delighted to stay up against the odds. I'm saying he would be expecting to stay up (because he didn't expect to go down two years ago).

That's the point.

Your opinion is your point… gotcha. 
 

Realistically, I would replace expecting with aiming.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

As are you.

Nice one bro

[derry]

I don't like what I'm seeing at the moment. We have a big squad and some decent players. On the other hand we have a manager who is dogmatic how we play. I always thought the way to get the best out of any eleven players was to allow them to complement each other and not shoehorn them into a specific formation, in Martin's case 5-3-2 or 4-3-3. Good managers set up their teams to get the best out of the players and always seem to get more out of the players than the sum of the parts. We're not doing that.

Players have to be comfortable how they blend within the framework together with a lack of managers edicts on playing in a way they find uncomfortable. It's up to the manager to pick the best team which is not necessarily the ten best players and then find it's natural shape and balance and let it play. That doesn't mean 70% possession with 50% in our own final third because it allows the opposition to get back in numbers and block our attacks. The slowness of our buildups is making successful attacks very difficult. That more than anything will cause us to concede goals and lose matches. We need to play less in our own half and more in the oppositions half with a higher tempo.

 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

I'm not getting excited at all and I'd appreciate Less of the patronising tone or we can just end the conversation here. I simply don't agree with you that those three things have been the cause of our poor start. We haven't been competitive for large parts of these early games and I don't want that trend to continue. Certainly against forest and Brentford and a large part of the United game. 

Think you’re adding the tone yourself. 
 

The 2 shit passes and poor penalty have without doubt affected the outcome. 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Not facts just your own views on what might have happened if certain occurrences had transpired. To claim them as facts is stupid.

Nope, the shit passes and poor penalty absolutely happened. 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I can't understand why some of our fans are just accepting relegation as a certainity. You would think we are a tinpot club after our first promotion to the big leagues judging by the comments on here, sort of thing I would have expected to hear on the Luton boards last season. I'm nearly 51, and the majority of those years have seen us as a Division One or Premier League club. We aren't a bad squad, I believe with a manager who knows what he was doing in terms of organisation and in game management we would be at least competitive. SR have options, they just need to give us the best chance of avoiding relegation. At the moment that doesn't seem likely with Martin in charge.

Far from a certainty, I’d say a probable reality. Many promoted teams suffer the same outcome and, apparently, the gap between the 2 divisions is widening. 

[Dellyears]

1 minute ago, derry said:

I don't like what I'm seeing at the moment. We have a big squad and some decent players. On the other hand we have a manager who is dogmatic how we play. I always thought the way to get the best out of any eleven players was to allow them to complement each other and not shoehorn them into a specific formation, in Martin's case 5-3-2 or 4-3-3. Good managers set up their teams to get the best out of the players and always seem to get more out of the players than the sum of the parts. We're not doing that.

Players have to be comfortable how they blend within the framework together with a lack of managers edicts on playing in a way they find uncomfortable. It's up to the manager to pick the best team which is not necessarily the ten best players and then find it's natural shape and balance and let it play. That doesn't mean 70% possession with 50% in our own final third because it allows the opposition to get back in numbers and block our attacks. The slowness of our buildups is making successful attacks very difficult. That more than anything will cause us to concede goals and lose matches. We need to play less in our own half and more in the oppositions half with a higher tempo.

 

YES, imagine getting Le Tiss to fit a system, it didn't work and Branfoot had him sitting on the bench. It was Bally gave him freedom and we saw a world beater.

[notnowcato]

50 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Not disagreeing that we lack a bit of quality, but when a squad lacks that, a manager finds other ways to compensate for that lack of quality. Martin does not have that in his locker. 

Where’s your solid proof for this claim??

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, notnowcato said:

Far from a certainty, I’d say a probable reality. Many promoted teams suffer the same outcome and, apparently, the gap between the 2 divisions is widening. 

From a simplistic viewpoint, wouldn't you want the club to give itself the best chance of avoiding relegation? 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

3 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Where’s your solid proof for this claim??

Just take a look at what gets served up on the pitch. That should give you a decent clue. 

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

From a simplistic viewpoint, wouldn't you want the club to give itself the best chance of avoiding relegation? 

Completely, although I suspect we may differ on how to best achieve that but that’s football. 

[EssEffCee]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

facts actually but there you go

It's a fact that we wouldn't have lost to United had the penalty gone in?

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Just take a look at what gets served up on the pitch. That should give you a decent clue. 

Are we selecting just the 4 premier league games and evidencing that as solid proof. Think he deserves a bit more respect than that. 

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, EssEffCee said:

It's a fact that we wouldn't have lost to United had the penalty gone in?

It’s a fact it was a poor penalty. It’s a fact it has an effect on the game. You can’t speculate beyond that. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, notnowcato said:

Are we selecting just the 4 premier league games and evidencing that as solid proof. Think he deserves a bit more respect than that. 

How about both games against Leicester last season? The five nil at their place was an embarrasment. There were plenty of examples of us not being able to see out games comfortably last season, or ending up losing from winning positions. A decent manager who can implent in game management does not allow that to happen on such a regular basis. 

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Think you’re adding the tone yourself. 
 

The 2 shit passes and poor penalty have without doubt affected the outcome. 

No I don't think I have given your posting style towards other posters as well. They have had some impact but I didn't deny they did. They aren't the cause of our overall uncompetitiveness or the reason we've shipped so many goals. 

[Turkish]

On 15/09/2024 at 12:42, RedArmy said:

His number 1 target was Poch who was employed until the end of November, by which point we’d started picking up points. 

Actually no, he wanted Di Matteo and tried to get him before Poch after Chelsea fired him but he was still being paid a silly money by Chelsea

[notnowcato]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

How about both games against Leicester last season? The five nil at their place was an embarrasment. There were plenty of examples of us not being able to see out games comfortably last season, or ending up losing from winning positions. A decent manager who can implent in game management does not allow that to happen on such a regular basis. 

Wow sounds like we lost a lot of games from winning positions last season…. Or did we?? Did we really lose lots of games from a winning position? More than normal for a team finishing top 6? 
 

Leicester away was fucking annoying. 

[EssEffCee]

8 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

It’s a fact it was a poor penalty. It’s a fact it has an effect on the game. You can’t speculate beyond that. 

Agree with all of that but your original post did seem to speculate beyond that unless I'm misunderstanding.

"We’re 2 shit passes and a terrible penalty away from having a reasonable start to the season."

Edited September 20 by EssEffCee

[notnowcato]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

No I don't think I have given your posting style towards other posters as well. They have had some impact but I didn't deny they did. They aren't the cause of our overall uncompetitiveness or the reason we've shipped so many goals. 

Seems the answer is not to respond then, but you know that. Please add your own sugar coating to this message. 

[SambaMaverick]

2 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Wow sounds like we lost a lot of games from winning positions last season…. Or did we?? Did we really lose lots of games from a winning position? More than normal for a team finishing top 6? 
 

Leicester away was fucking annoying.