Russell Martin

[Rebel]

Russell Martin needs to be given the time to turn things around but the grim reality is the current squad doesn't look good enough to survive in the premier league.  It looks unbalanced and weak in key areas.

Yes he needs to be more pragmatic and adapt his approach to the squad we have and the league we are in - but even if he does its questionable whether the squad is good enough to stay up.

5-3-2 and playing out from the back all the time have both got to go - but where is the centre forward or other players (No. 10/ Winger) to give us option of going direct or playing a different way.

Fans seem to think our salvation lies in the young players like Big Les, Fernandes, SAA and Dibling which quite frankly is a ridiculous situation to be in - they should be adding strength and depth to the squad - not be the players we are going to pin our hopes of survival on.

We failed to sign the centre forward we so desperately needed or improve our defence during the transfer window,  and we didn't sign the right/left winger and attacking midfielder/No 10 we were all hoping for, not to mention a first choice left back.  

I am not sure we signed any of our first choice targets or had any real plan - it looks like a very scattergun approach in hindsight.  Is this because we didn't have - and still don't have - a proper director of football?  I would think so.

Hopefully we can find a way of playing in a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 that gets the best out of our squad and makes us harder to beat. 

 

 

 

 

[Charlie Wayman]

Blimey, reading today's ramblings suggests a lot of people are vrey bored this morning with nothing better to do.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The mistakes we’ve made have been a direct result of the managers tactics. I’ve heard pundits saying “if they continue to play like this, they’ll go down”. Not “if they continue to make mistakes”, but “if they continue to play that way”. There’s a difference. Nobody is talking about other sides like that, and it’s entirely down to the manager. Therefore, if we continue to play the same way over the next handful of games, we should pull the pin.
 

I can’t believe they’ll still be nods defending him if we’re in the same boat next month. 
 

 

Edited September 5 by Lord Duckhunter

[kitch]

15 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Its pretty mental to me that 3 games in there are people discussing him getting the sack, let alone wanting him to be sacked. Get a grip ffs - he's earned more than 3 games in the prem 🤣

When you put it like this I don't see how anybody could possibly disagree with you, but in the heat and emotion of the day (when you've just watched ANOTHER loss), frustrations can get the better of, well, the best of us.

I'm nigh-on certain that if the club held a SaintsWeb meeting, with all of us and Russell Martin, by the end 95% would back him. But after a game we've just lost? I like the guy, but even I've called for his head at times!

It's only 3 games. Let's keep the positivity up (because it's much nicer supporting this club when it's not depressing and toxic) and reassess after a few more games to see what (if anything changes). 

[badgerx16]

I don't want him gone, ( yet ), but I also don't want to see our back 3 and GK aimlessly passing backwards and sideways between themselves inside our penalty area, inviting pressure until the inevitable miscue presents the ball to an opposition attacker.

I would also like to watch the team be more active and mobile around the opponent's area, and their keeper to actually be challenged into making saves.

 

I think the squad, even with it's limitations, is capable of delivering this, but whether RM is the manager to mould them into the sort of team that can do this in the PL is currently open to question.

 

The risk with giving him more games is that if it doesn't change very soon the hole we have dug ourselves into may be too deep to climb out of.

Edited September 5 by badgerx16

[notnowcato]

44 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The mistakes we’ve made have been a direct result of the managers tactics. I’ve heard pundits saying “if they continue to play like this, they’ll go down”. Not “if they continue to make mistakes”, but “if they continue to play that way”. There’s a difference. Nobody is talking about other sides like that, and it’s entirely down to the manager. Therefore, if we continue to play the same way over the next handful of games, we should pull the pin.
 

I can’t believe they’ll still be nods defending him if we’re in the same boat next month. 
 

 

Even if we win those handful of games??

[Gingeletiss]

7 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Even if we win those handful of games??

He has already shown, that he will revert to type, after a few wins. He is stubborn, and truely believes he is a footballing Messiah.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The mistakes we’ve made have been a direct result of the managers tactics. I’ve heard pundits saying “if they continue to play like this, they’ll go down”. Not “if they continue to make mistakes”, but “if they continue to play that way”. There’s a difference. Nobody is talking about other sides like that, and it’s entirely down to the manager. Therefore, if we continue to play the same way over the next handful of games, we should pull the pin.
 

I can’t believe they’ll still be nods defending him if we’re in the same boat next month. 

95% of this forum voted for him to be sacked at the start of last season when we were letting in 5 vs Sunderland's injury ravaged kids team, and 4 vs Leicester and Norwich... he got us promoted.

Two narrow losses and a 3-1 home defeat to Brentford (a very good pressing side) are nowhere near as serious - especially as it was absolutely critical we got promoted last year (see Leeds this summer), where as (like it or not) getting promoted and then relegated again this year is a far preferable fate.
.
For consideration though, generally i think people would say that Adkins was harshly sacked (and looked like he was going to keep us up when he was eventually sacked), I would say that Martin deserves at least a similar amount of time on his side (especially given the fact he has changed our style, sorted the dressing room, and totally changed the momentum of the club). You've set a deadline of 1 month (being the 5th October), that is only another 4 games - which would bring us to the Fulham draw below. 4 points. Its worth nothing though that as of the 5th November, we were bottom and still only on 4 points after 10games.



As with Adkins (and the promotion squad), they needed to find their feet and adjust to the league. The following fixtures (up until his sacking post the Chelsea draw) show we picked up significantly - with us in 15th on 22 points after 22 games.  Also, when Poch came in, it took him another 4 matches to win a league game - and that was with an acclimatised squad of players. Somewhat facetiously playing devils' advocate, people weren't calling for Poch to be sacked after 3 game (other than because he was an argie who'd done the dirty on ol Nige with Cortese  )



As for this season - The transfer window has just closed, its evident Martin's given the settled players (i.e. those that got us promoted) the bulk of the game time and tried to quickly bed in some of the new players around them as is reasonable imo. The players signed after 16th August have had very little time to settle and adjust tactically.

Sugawara signed 29th July - played 3 of 3 in the league
BBD - signed 30th July - Played 3 of 3 in the league
Lesley signed 16th August - played 1 of 3 (but a defensive player in games we were chasing)
Archer signed 16th August - played 3 of 3.
Fernandes signed 20th August - Played 2 of 3
Ramsdale signed 30th August - played 1 of 1 games

Fraser/cornet both signed too late to play.

Based on Martin's own comments and the involvement of the new signings, i would anticipate different starting line ups after the international break - Possibly even reverting to the 4-3-3.

Edited September 5 by Saint86

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Rebel said:

Russell Martin needs to be given the time to turn things around but the grim reality is the current squad doesn't look good enough to survive in the premier league.  It looks unbalanced and weak in key areas.

Yes he needs to be more pragmatic and adapt his approach to the squad we have and the league we are in - but even if he does its questionable whether the squad is good enough to stay up.

5-3-2 and playing out from the back all the time have both got to go - but where is the centre forward or other players (No. 10/ Winger) to give us option of going direct or playing a different way.

Fans seem to think our salvation lies in the young players like Big Les, Fernandes, SAA and Dibling which quite frankly is a ridiculous situation to be in - they should be adding strength and depth to the squad - not be the players we are going to pin our hopes of survival on.

We failed to sign the centre forward we so desperately needed or improve our defence during the transfer window,  and we didn't sign the right/left winger and attacking midfielder/No 10 we were all hoping for, not to mention a first choice left back.  

I am not sure we signed any of our first choice targets or had any real plan - it looks like a very scattergun approach in hindsight.  Is this because we didn't have - and still don't have - a proper director of football?  I would think so.

Hopefully we can find a way of playing in a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 that gets the best out of our squad and makes us harder to beat. 

 

 

 

 

I think we'd be better playing 4231.

[gio1saints]

Smug and pretentious poster here: 🤫.

If you come online and post “RM is a fracking idiot a cubt fracking useless piece of shit “ or words to that effect - that’s ok on here. Thats not smug arrogant or pretentious. Or even abusive. It’s just fact innit and standard match day industrial language. 
 

Especially match day posts.

You will get likes, smileys and are in good company. Nobody will bat an eyelid. 

If you come on and say “ I don’t agree with your characterisation and here’s why “ - well for a start that’s a long word so poster MUST be a smug pretentious cubt most likely also a pribk (I’m sure there’s a fancy name for being a cubt and a pribk at same time but that would just piss you off more if I used it) plus they must be a happy clapping fracking wznker etc. Go away we hate you essentially for use of long words, having an alternate pov and occasionally being annoyingly right in showing up the nonsense bollox speak for the bollix it is. 

It’s a bit of a shame really that the debate gets bogged down by the name calling. 😁

 

 

[trousers]

4 hours ago, notnowcato said:

I think a lot of this is in your head. 

That's definitely where I make up most of the nonsense I post to be fair.... What part of the body does yours come from...?

Edited September 5 by trousers

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, gio1saints said:

Smug and pretentious poster here: 🤫.

If you come online and post “RM is a fracking idiot a cubt fracking useless piece of shit “ or words to that effect - that’s ok on here. Thats not smug arrogant or pretentious. Or even abusive. It’s just fact innit and standard match day industrial language. 
 

Especially match day posts.

You will get likes, smileys and are in good company. Nobody will bat an eyelid. 

If you come on and say “ I don’t agree with your characterisation and here’s why “ - well for a start that’s a long word so poster MUST be a smug pretentious cubt most likely also a pribk (I’m sure there’s a fancy name for being a cubt and a pribk at same time but that would just piss you off more if I used it) plus they must be a happy clapping fracking wznker etc. Go away we hate you essentially for use of long words, having an alternate pov and occasionally being annoyingly right in showing up the nonsense bollox speak for the bollix it is. 

It’s a bit of a shame really that the debate gets bogged down by the name calling. 😁

 

 

I'd say that the hostile reception you receive has rather a lot more to do with the manner and style of your posts rather than the fact you may use a long word. The fact you believe it's because of that may provide a clue as to why you have provoked strong reactions.

[trousers]

3 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Blimey, reading today's ramblings suggests a lot of people are vrey bored this morning with nothing better to do.

It's even worse than that.... most of us don't have the advantage of multiple users of the same account....

[notnowcato]

43 minutes ago, trousers said:

That's definitely where I make up most of the nonsense I post to be fair.... What part of the body does yours come from...?

Where do you think, trousers?

[notnowcato]

46 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'd say that the hostile reception you receive has rather a lot more to do with the manner and style of your posts rather than the fact you may use a long word. The fact you believe it's because of that may provide a clue as to why you have provoked strong reactions.

The Manner and Style Police want a word… 

[trousers]

13 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Where do you think, trousers?

Also in my head, mostly...

Edited September 5 by trousers

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

Smug and pretentious poster here: 🤫.

If you come online and post “RM is a fracking idiot a cubt fracking useless piece of shit “ or words to that effect - that’s ok on here. Thats not smug arrogant or pretentious. Or even abusive. It’s just fact innit and standard match day industrial language. 
 

Especially match day posts.

You will get likes, smileys and are in good company. Nobody will bat an eyelid. 

If you come on and say “ I don’t agree with your characterisation and here’s why “ - well for a start that’s a long word so poster MUST be a smug pretentious cubt most likely also a pribk (I’m sure there’s a fancy name for being a cubt and a pribk at same time but that would just piss you off more if I used it) plus they must be a happy clapping fracking wznker etc. Go away we hate you essentially for use of long words, having an alternate pov and occasionally being annoyingly right in showing up the nonsense bollox speak for the bollix it is. 

It’s a bit of a shame really that the debate gets bogged down by the name calling. 😁

 

 

Considering I'm often late to inevitable outcomes here (Davis in the PL, Jones' chances, Ripley as a good signing) it's been fine.

A bit of courtesy, empathy and respect seems to work out fine. Oh, and a little timing after a rubbish result helps.

Plenty of critical posts in this thread. A lot of good points, whether I agree or not. Plenty of supportive posts too with good points, whether I agree with all of them.

"that's" isn't that long a word. 🙂

[gio1saints]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I'd say that the hostile reception you receive has rather a lot more to do with the manner and style of your posts rather than the fact you may use a long word. The fact you believe it's because of that may provide a clue as to why you have provoked strong reactions.

SO …..I hear you …you’re saying I’m not a pretentious fracking wNker cubt for pointing out the inarticulate insanity of some of the anti RM posts on here - but I do use long words on occasion… so just gotta simplify what I say and make it much shorter. 

I think most of all - and you did not say it, but i can read between the lines - your advice is do NOT defend RM or the team from unfair criticism on here - and I should be fine and not get a bunch of personal abuse. Thank you. Message received. 😂

Edited September 5 by gio1saints

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

SO …..I hear you …you’re saying I’m not a pretentious fracking wNker cubt for pointing out the inarticulate insanity of some of the anti RM posts on here - but I do use long words on occasion… so just gotta simplify what I say and make it much shorter. 

I think most of all - and you did not say it, but i can read between the lines - your advice is do NOT defend RM or the team from unfair criticism on here - and I should be fine and not get a bunch of personal abuse. Thank you. Message received. 😂

No I'd say your post that those who disagree with you do so because they object to people who use long words and the implication of that that they are thick, says a lot about how you view people who disagree with you. This may give you an indication about why some of your posts are viewed with hostility. I would suggest that simply disagreeing with an opinion in a respectful manner without disparaging the intelligence of other posters is more likely to be better received. 

[gio1saints]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

No I'd say your post that those who disagree with you do so because they object to people who use long words and the implication of that that they are thick, says a lot about how you view people who disagree with you. This may give you an indication about why some of your posts are viewed with hostility. I would suggest that simply disagreeing with an opinion in a respectful manner without disparaging the intelligence of other posters is more likely to be better received. 

Have you read what people say to me when I ( and others) simply state opinion on RM and team that is not anti or negative? There’s some respectful objective assessment but also plenty of personal abuse.
 I’d love an informed debate on the issues but with many posting there hit n run nastiness on here it’s so difficult. Your well meaning post is essentially victim blaming in that regard Hypo. Know you mean well but it’s NOT my fault for pointing out there’s an alternate pov - and consequently that I should get the abuse thats coming to me and stfu despite the anti saints craziness of what’s sometimes said. 

[Tommy Mulgrew]

24 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

SO …..I hear you …you’re saying I’m not a pretentious fracking wNker cubt for pointing out the inarticulate insanity of some of the anti RM posts on here - but I do use long words on occasion… so just gotta simplify what I say and make it much shorter. 

I think most of all - and you did not say it, but i can read between the lines - your advice is do NOT defend RM or the team from unfair criticism on here - and I should be fine and not get a bunch of personal abuse. Thank you. Message received. 😂

🤭🫣🥱😴🤐 😭
 

read hypo’s reply and consider, please.

don’t tar everyone who disagrees with you with a personal abuse accusation; most of us on here are perfectly reasonable people.

Edited September 5 by Tommy Mulgrew
gio’s response

[hypochondriac]

25 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Have you read what people say to me when I ( and others) simply state opinion on RM and team that is not anti or negative? There’s some respectful objective assessment but also plenty of personal abuse.
 I’d love an informed debate on the issues but with many posting there hit n run nastiness on here it’s so difficult. Your well meaning post is essentially victim blaming in that regard Hypo. Know you mean well but it’s NOT my fault for pointing out there’s an alternate pov - and consequently that I should get the abuse thats coming to me and stfu despite the anti saints craziness of what’s sometimes said. 

It's only victim blaming if I agree with your assessment that you receive personal abuse simply for stating an opinion about the team. If that's all you were doing the I'd admit it's not on. As I said though I believe it's the manner of your posting that's rillng people. 

[Mr X]

5 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The mistakes we’ve made have been a direct result of the managers tactics. I’ve heard pundits saying “if they continue to play like this, they’ll go down”. Not “if they continue to make mistakes”, but “if they continue to play that way”. There’s a difference. Nobody is talking about other sides like that, and it’s entirely down to the manager. Therefore, if we continue to play the same way over the next handful of games, we should pull the pin.
 

I can’t believe they’ll still be nods defending him if we’re in the same boat next month. 
 

 

We simply have to take action if there's no points on the board at the end of this month ordinarily no one would be calling for a managers head this soon... But our situation is different as Martin has publicly said he is not going to change anything and would rather loose games with his style than change. 

 

Not sure the club will though as he's signed a new contract and he's been very transparent with the style he plays from the very beginning the club knew exactly what they were getting with him, someone that had a chance of getting promotion from the championship but wouldn't be good enough for the premier league. 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

6 hours ago, Rebel said:

Russell Martin needs to be given the time to turn things around but the grim reality is the current squad doesn't look good enough to survive in the premier league.  It looks unbalanced and weak in key areas.

Yes he needs to be more pragmatic and adapt his approach to the squad we have and the league we are in - but even if he does its questionable whether the squad is good enough to stay up.

5-3-2 and playing out from the back all the time have both got to go - but where is the centre forward or other players (No. 10/ Winger) to give us option of going direct or playing a different way.

Fans seem to think our salvation lies in the young players like Big Les, Fernandes, SAA and Dibling which quite frankly is a ridiculous situation to be in - they should be adding strength and depth to the squad - not be the players we are going to pin our hopes of survival on.

We failed to sign the centre forward we so desperately needed or improve our defence during the transfer window,  and we didn't sign the right/left winger and attacking midfielder/No 10 we were all hoping for, not to mention a first choice left back.  

I am not sure we signed any of our first choice targets or had any real plan - it looks like a very scattergun approach in hindsight.  Is this because we didn't have - and still don't have - a proper director of football?  I would think so.

Hopefully we can find a way of playing in a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 that gets the best out of our squad and makes us harder to beat. 

 

 

 

 

I agree we have a weak squad compared to most PL teams. We have invested though and do have some good players now. Given we are up against it, why then play such suicidal tactics and gift teams goals every game? At least let’s try and be hard to beat. Oh and playing a striker might help at the other end too 😀

[hypochondriac]

This sounds like clickbaity bollocks but I wonder if there's any truth in it:

https://www.footballinsider247.com/exclusive-russell-martin-fighting-for-his-job-at-southampton/

[The Kraken]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

This sounds like clickbaity bollocks but I wonder if there's any truth in it:

https://www.footballinsider247.com/exclusive-russell-martin-fighting-for-his-job-at-southampton/

Despite what is often trotted out on here, SR aren’t complete mugs. And seeing the manager stick to his “my style is my style and I won’t change” mantra despite a nil point return is definitely going to make them think about their investment in the man. 

Clubs always ditch players when they get promoted as they’re not seemed good enough for a higher level. No reason it shouldn’t be somewhat similar with a manager, albeit he gets given a crack at it first. Cortese was ruthless with Adkins and was actively looking to replace him in the promotion summer, so it’s nothing new.

[Badger]

15 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Despite what is often trotted out on here, SR aren’t complete mugs. And seeing the manager stick to his “my style is my style and I won’t change” mantra despite a nil point return is definitely going to make them think about their investment in the man. 

Clubs always ditch players when they get promoted as they’re not seemed good enough for a higher level. No reason it shouldn’t be somewhat similar with a manager, albeit he gets given a crack at it first. Cortese was ruthless with Adkins and was actively looking to replace him in the promotion summer, so it’s nothing new.

That was a bit of an open secret that Cortese was scouring the market for a replacement. There were a couple of moments that a parting of the ways seemed imminent , losing at WBA and Adkins appeared to be saying ‘goodbye’ in his post match applause of the fans. 
 

Think that was in November, although he eventually left in January. 

Edited September 5 by Badger

[Mr X]

To sum things up the premier league is difficult enough as it is at the best of times.

Why on earth would you adopt a style that makes it even more difficult??? 

When all is said and done it's about putting the ball in the back of the net I'd much rather see more of that than constantly recycling the ball in extremely dangerous places! And what for? Just to show that we can? (Or can't in our case?)

We have a manager that values meaningless statistics over actually winning games as long as we were "brave" that's all that matters to him. He calls it brave most people call it being the architect of your own downfall 

Edited September 5 by Mr X

[Holmes_and_Watson]

While, it's not my favourite, I've seen merit in Martin's control of games. The control of games to increase the effectiveness of our attacks has looked really good. It's looked as though we controlled the risks in how we played.

There's also been times when that possession has led to plenty of chances.

With a weaker squad than most, there's an argument that playing in a similar way to them will just lead to defeat. Martin's system, like Ralph's and Poch's looks to get more out of the players, using something a bit different ( complete with giant flaws when they don't work)

As pointed out, it does have to show a chance of actually working in the PL though. Changes to come. Martin did say "how" when it came to putting in new players. We might get something different. Still within Plan A, of course.

[Matty's Caddy]

7 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The mistakes we’ve made have been a direct result of the managers tactics. I’ve heard pundits saying “if they continue to play like this, they’ll go down”. Not “if they continue to make mistakes”, but “if they continue to play that way”. There’s a difference. Nobody is talking about other sides like that, and it’s entirely down to the manager. Therefore, if we continue to play the same way over the next handful of games, we should pull the pin.
 

I can’t believe they’ll still be nods defending him if we’re in the same boat next month. 
 

 

Fuck me mush, he’s not even put his best team on the pitch yet

[pimpin4rizeal]

Jury is still very much out on Martin for me,, we was pretty crap and inconsistent last year after the unbeaten run, don’t think many people where that happy with him but he redeeened himself and bought himself a fair chance with everyone by winning the playoffs.

Start of this season he’s been poor .. poor formation and selections pretty much every game.. I think he’s playing this 3 at the back as it’s probably the easiest way for us to have a load of meaningless possession stats .. but by doing that the attack isn’t working at all  if he doesn’t pick up points soon can really see the pressure cranking up . How many games with no points or wins will people give him ? 

Edited September 5 by pimpin4rizeal

[danjosaint]

32 minutes ago, Matty's Caddy said:

Fuck me mush, he’s not even put his best team on the pitch yet

So for the last 5 years at us Swansea and Mk dons he's never been able to put out his strongest side so thats the reason his side has let in 60+ goals every season, I really did wonder 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

9 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

So for the last 5 years at us Swansea and Mk dons he's never been able to put out his strongest side so thats the reason his side has let in 60+ goals every season, I really did wonder 

Have no fear, am sure his strongest side will still incude Stephens.

[hypochondriac]

Really good twitter thread on everything wrong with the forest game. Really makes it clear what the issues are:

https://x.com/EuroExpert_/status/1831764984201892208?t=KuTmFvBLzaG0BZ-iXxvHRQ&s=19

[notnowcato]

23 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Really good twitter thread on everything wrong with the forest game. Really makes it clear what the issues are:

https://x.com/EuroExpert_/status/1831764984201892208?t=KuTmFvBLzaG0BZ-iXxvHRQ&s=19

That was a good read, cheers for sharing

[Suhari]

Likely just a clickbait article. But really: how many of us would lose sleep if he were sacked?

Not me.

[hypochondriac]

56 minutes ago, Suhari said:

Likely just a clickbait article. But really: how many of us would lose sleep if he were sacked?

Not me.

Another three or four losses in the same manner in a row and I think everyone will be calling for it. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

That was a good read, cheers for sharing

I agree it was really interesting. I'll certainly be watching to see how narrow our centre backs are going forward as it seems a lot of our problems stem from that. Also interesting how he thought that Harwood Bellis wasn't totally to blame for his poor performance and that it was receiving hospital passes from Stephens that caused a few of the problems we had. As he points out our shape is all wrong and it puts us under so much unnecessary pressure as well as giving us few options when we do get forward. 

[saintant]

8 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Really good twitter thread on everything wrong with the forest game. Really makes it clear what the issues are:

https://x.com/EuroExpert_/status/1831764984201892208?t=KuTmFvBLzaG0BZ-iXxvHRQ&s=19

Do you have to join X to read this? I'm not a member and can't see any content.

[Dusic]

7 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I agree it was really interesting. I'll certainly be watching to see how narrow our centre backs are going forward as it seems a lot of our problems stem from that. Also interesting how he thought that Harwood Bellis wasn't totally to blame for his poor performance and that it was receiving hospital passes from Stephens that caused a few of the problems we had. As he points out our shape is all wrong and it puts us under so much unnecessary pressure as well as giving us few options when we do get forward. 

It highlights what a few have said:

- Its not actually the tactic of passing at the back that is the issue, its usually the action or two before that which causes the problem - certainly the case for that vs Newcastle and for Brentford's first goal.

Why is that happening?

- Largely because of two things:

1. In the 3 CB shape where Stephens steps forward we end up with players occupying the same space and not having clarity (or Ralph's "automatisms") on what they are doing

2. We have a lack of forward options for the player on the ball because the lineup contains one (maybe even two) too many defensive players and therefore it takes them longer to make a pass or they receive the ball back from the midfield too often.

Those specific examples also highlight a valid question of whether selecting a left footed LB (Taylor) would help? In certain situations undoubtedly, but means likely leaving out either KWP or Sugawara.

Why is it different from last season?

1. The opposition press (and output when they regain the ball) is better

2. Because RM who lots here say never changes, did change for the specific circumstance of the playoffs and hasn't changed back to what the team is comfortable in, a 4-3-3 where its clear what everyone's roles are and there are multiple paasing options for the player in possession. 

It worked in the playoffs because WBA are a defensive team under Corberan, Leeds don't press and we were able to grind out the results needed.

He needs to be brave and change (again) back to a shape that his possession based strategy is more successful - otherwise we have no chance. 

I think he will.

Edited September 6 by Dusic

[Maggie May]

7 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Another three or four losses in the same manner in a row and I think everyone will be calling for it. 

Then we will absolutely go down. We need to learn from our mistakes from the circus show of the last PL season. We need to stick with RM. He’s the only chance we have with the side we’ve built up. 

[6ft8saint]

Apparently then our possession and passing are 3rd best in the league however we are still slightly over playing looking for the perfect position rather than shooting. 

This will help and stop the crazy defend style and kick it long every so often so it's harder for teams to read 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

Then we will absolutely go down. We need to learn from our mistakes from the circus show of the last PL season. We need to stick with RM. He’s the only chance we have with the side we’ve built up. 

I do t think that's true at all. I don't want Martin to leave as yet and he deserves to prove he can make necessary changes, but bringing someone else in does not equal certain relegation. 

[danjosaint]

1 hour ago, Maggie May said:

 We need to stick with RM. He’s the only chance we have with the side we’ve built up. 

Jeez if that's the case we may as well pack up and go now 

[Midfield_General]

8 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Another three or four losses in the same manner in a row and I think everyone will be calling for it. 

I very much hope Russ swallows his pride and changes things sufficiently that a change is not felt necessary. Just play a bit more pragmatically to give ourselves at least a chance in some games and make everyone feel that we gave it a good crack and did everything we could, even if we go back down. 

The thought of an SR-led new manager recruitment process, especially without a DoF in place, is not pretty. Who knows who they’d bring in. 

I can see them being persuaded to give Lallana a go, which would be another big box ticked in the tried and tested ‘how to guarantee relegation’ blueprint (the one where you end up having three managers in a season). 

[Mr X]

The next three games will decide RMs future in my opinion.  All three games are tough and I can easily see us finishing the month with no points on the board. 

How many points would you predict? I can't see us beating any of these sides at the moment so a couple of draws would be progress

Man united at home

Ipswich at home

Bournemouth away 

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, Mr X said:

The next three games will decide RMs future in my opinion.  All three games are tough and I can easily see us finishing the month with no points on the board. 

How many points would you predict? I can't see us beating any of these sides at the moment so a couple of draws would be progress

Man united at home

Ipswich at home

Bournemouth away 

We will have 4 points after those 3 games. 

[Mr X]

Just now, notnowcato said:

We will have 4 points after those 3 games. 

Where's the win? 

[Midfield_General]

6 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Where's the win? 

Ipswich at home is very obviously a game we should be capable of winning

Edited September 6 by Midfield_General

[Dusic]

A result clearly needed soon but in the very short term I think a performance that shows what we are really about is critical. 

At Newcastle the way we played gave us a chance to win the game. That we didn't was mostly due to poor finishing plus a very costly mistake.

In the other two I doubt any of the metrics plus the eye test has suggested that. 

We need to revert to what made us good last season, with some tweaks to respect the increased level and then hope that some of the better players we have introduced mean that we can compete at this level.

If the likes of Ipswich and Bmth deal with us easily then its time to be concerned. Until now we have barely utilised the new signings and have had a harsh adjustment to a better level. Its too early to make ridiculous conclusions and we have to assume that the manager and players will adapt - as they dmonstrated last season.