Russell Martin

[saintant]

12 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

I think there’s a chance that the mistakes we have seen in the 3 league games so far may not occur as often going forward. Time will tell. 

Unless something changes they will continue because opponents will be well aware that their press will induce these errors.

[Morse]

3 hours ago, trousers said:

Ha! My money was on you being Lucy but close enough...

I'm Lucy Pinder and so's my wife!

[gio1saints]

34 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't think there is an anti-RM bandwagon at all, I for one want him to succeed as much as any other fan and always have done. I don't want to be a club that chops and changes managers every year or so. But that doesn't mean we cannot call out issues or voice concerns over what we see in front of us.

What I take issue with on your post, and a lot of your posts, is that you're calling what he's doing as revolutionary, something different, no one has ever tried it. That narrative is repeated by Martin himself and seems to filter throughout the club and it's really cringeworthy.

Let's just take a step back and work out what he's trying to do -

Dominate possession and create an extra man when on the ball out of defence. Now tell me no other team has ever tried that before? It's honestly nothing new, unique or magical. Barca did it, Man City do it, Arsenal did it in the Wenger years. 

What is the big difference between us and those guys? Player quality. In the Championship we could get away, to a degree, because our players ability was higher than that of the other sides in the league. We're now doing the same in a league with much, much higher quality than we have. 

I'm not sat here saying abandon all passing football, but there needs to be an acknowledgement and an awareness within our coaching that our quality is significantly lower than that of who we are facing. Bednarek's touch isn't tight enough for example, so what we're providing is an absolutely perfect press trigger for opposition sides when we retreat back. They know that Bednarek/Stephens aren't comfortable on the ball when pressured, so as soon as we go back they swarm on our weakest ball playing players. Brentford played it perfectly. They use our back passing as a trigger to condense and tie us in knots, and that's where we give the ball away and get ourselves in a muddle.

That's not reinventing football, it's being stupid and not being honest about your own limitations.

Fair enough.
Small point- I do not claim he is revolutionary. In response to his insistence on playing  the way we do being called footballing insanity I agreed. It’s insane is probably a synonym for “ way different than what fans and managers are supposed to do when they go up.”. 
RM has not invented anything. All he is currently doing is trying his best to get our team playing a possession based style. He is simply more determined ( or stupid depends on your take) than most other managers to make it work.
His “ changes” happen though- sometimes belatedly like Saturday hooking AA and WS - other times it takes a few games- such as last season reverting to a 5 on a couple of occasions-  belatedly or not he does tinker. 

Just not enough and fast enough for some is all.

I wonder if he were sacked tomorrow how many matches the new manager would get to acclimatise to the EPL with this squad before some on here demand he is sacked and shower him with nasty abuse? Three? Ten? Three is already enough for Russell on this forum,m for some.which, to me, is laughable. 

Edited September 4 by gio1saints

[hypochondriac]

25 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

I think there’s a chance that the mistakes we have seen in the 3 league games so far may not occur as often going forward. Time will tell. 

What gives you that confidence?

[Midfield_General]

48 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't think there is an anti-RM bandwagon at all, I for one want him to succeed as much as any other fan and always have done. I don't want to be a club that chops and changes managers every year or so. But that doesn't mean we cannot call out issues or voice concerns over what we see in front of us.

What I take issue with on your post, and a lot of your posts, is that you're calling what he's doing as revolutionary, something different, no one has ever tried it. That narrative is repeated by Martin himself and seems to filter throughout the club and it's really cringeworthy.

Let's just take a step back and work out what he's trying to do -

Dominate possession and create an extra man when on the ball out of defence. Now tell me no other team has ever tried that before? It's honestly nothing new, unique or magical. Barca did it, Man City do it, Arsenal did it in the Wenger years. 

What is the big difference between us and those guys? Player quality. In the Championship we could get away, to a degree, because our players ability was higher than that of the other sides in the league. We're now doing the same in a league with much, much higher quality than we have. 

I'm not sat here saying abandon all passing football, but there needs to be an acknowledgement and an awareness within our coaching that our quality is significantly lower than that of who we are facing. Bednarek's touch isn't tight enough for example, so what we're providing is an absolutely perfect press trigger for opposition sides when we retreat back. They know that Bednarek/Stephens aren't comfortable on the ball when pressured, so as soon as we go back they swarm on our weakest ball playing players. Brentford played it perfectly. They use our back passing as a trigger to condense and tie us in knots, and that's where we give the ball away and get ourselves in a muddle.

That's not reinventing football, it's being stupid and not being honest about your own limitations.

Spot on. 

[woodsaint1]

2 hours ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

From what I read the vast majority of posters are not calling for the manager’s head after 3 games at all and just reacting to what’s happening on the pitch in the here and now.

Many are saying that they hope it changes/adapts to better suit this league, if little changes the outcome is inevitable. I hope and actually believe it will for the better once the new additions are embedded (and with less fannying around at the back 😉)

Yeah but when the reaction to what is happening on the pitch is the usual;

RM is too stubborn to change things (well he did change lots of things last season),

RM can't set up a defence (when it mattered we conceded 1 goal over three playoff games - a 97th minute consolation from WBA),

RM has never achieved anything (well he did get us promoted at the first time of asking after inheriting a mess of a team with zero confidence)

RM got lucky with our promotion or we finished 4th (worse than finishing 3rd and not getting promoted it seems),

then you can clearly tell that they don't want the manager here, without the need for them to actually say it. It's the same people that were saying it on this thread last September, and they're back for another go just so that they can have some sort of weird 'I told you so' moment.

[derry]

Because of the possession obsession we have turned the game on it's head, THB, Bednarek and Stephens have the most possession, how rediculous is that. Over his whole career, Stephens has had problems, specifically ball watching and concentration together with making stupid passes that drop colleagues in it and giving the ball away. A lot of it when under no pressure. Now he's playing in a system that is exposing him to pressure more than any other time. Not only has he been made captain he is shoehorned into the side on a regular basis. How does this equate with the theory that this manager is cleverer than most?

[Gloucester Saint]

16 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Fair enough.
Small point- I do not claim he is revolutionary. In response to his insistence on playing  the way we do being called footballing insanity I agreed. It’s insane is probably a synonym for “ way different than what fans and managers are supposed to do when they go up.”. 
RM has not invented anything. All he is currently doing is trying his best to get our team playing a possession based style. He is simply more determined ( or stupid depends on your take) than most other managers to make it work.
His “ changes” happen though- sometimes belatedly like Saturday hooking AA and WS - other times it takes a few games- such as last season reverting to a 5 on a couple of occasions-  belatedly or not he does tinker. 

Just not enough and fast enough for some is all.

I wonder if he were sacked tomorrow how many matches the new manager would get to acclimatise to the EPL with this squad before some on here demand he is sacked and shower him with nasty abuse? Three? Ten? Three is already enough for Russell on this forum,m for some.which, to me, is laughable. 

It isn’t difficult, Jan and Jack need to concentrate on finding one of the CMs and sometimes hitting a more direct ball to BBD/Cornet or AA if it’s on to stop the opposition getting set. It doesn’t mean we have to go back to the Branfoot era (God forbid). If there’s a danger situation and there’s no out ball then the opposition can’t score from a throw in.

We just need to grow into games and gain confidence, and that’s not happening whilst the opposition are waiting for a trigger movement to mug Jan, Jack, THB or the deepest lying CM. The manager’s reward if he keeps us up longer-term is to upgrade in those positions where people are more comfortable building from the back all of the time but that’s not where we are.

I like Russell Martin but this heavily possession based style didn’t entirely work last season and it 100% isn’t this. Happy if he changes to be more pragmatic but SR will pull the trigger sooner rather than later if he doesn’t and the 2-3 gifts per game keep happening. 

[kitch]

4 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

 

These posts deserve to be next to each other, the 2nd one is absolutely spot on the other is....🙄

TBH I read both of those as accurate. What we're seeing on the pitch supports the second comment, but some logic and common sense supports the first. I'm not saying we should all blindly follow RM, or that he's right in the way he's doing what he's doing, but we're not in the meetings. We don't KNOW what is said to players.

With only 3 games on the board, it's too early to start to suggesting the issue is the boss. He's not even had a chance to reset things yet, and he's earned that in the bank from last season.
If, after the next 3 games we're seeing rinse & repeat; Smallbone, Stephens and Armstrong still as PL starters, overpassing all over the pitch and possession for possession's sake, then I'd probably join the ranks of those who think RM needs replacing (or a wake-up slap at the very least), but the man's earned a chance IMO.
He seems to be an excellent communicator and man-manager, I just hope he can improve the tactical side of his game. Needs to be more ruthless, more adaptable and more pragmatic.
Seems a good man, I hope he can do it.

[Lord Duckhunter]

53 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

I think there’s a chance that the mistakes we have seen in the 3 league games so far may not occur as often going forward. 

Yeah, chances are you’re right.  Now we’ve got the big guns like Forest, Brentford & the 10 men of Newcastle out  the way, mistakes won’t be punished so ruthlessly from now on in. If we keep playing like this I’m sure we’ll be fine. 

[Dusic]

2 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

When Bednerek and Stephens are no. 1 & 2 for most touches of the ball you know something isn't right. You dont need any other stats to back that up, the two least technical and capable with the ball at their feet (outfield) is frightening.

This doesn't make the point that you think it makes.

Have a look at the list of top touches in the league this season and for the last few seasons and the top 10 is nearly always made up of centre backs and if there are others its full backs or holding midfielders.

With almost any manager our players with the most touches would be centre backs - as it is for pretty much every other team.

Edited September 4 by Dusic

[Wade Garrett]

We need to mix it up because we’re getting fucking shit on trying to be too clever bollocks.

Hopefully the manager can see this.  I don’t remember us as a long ball team under Adkins, Poch and Koeman, so there are alternatives to overplaying without hoofing it.  Martin needs to be more pragmatic.  

We don’t want an arrogant cunt like Kompany who basically couldn’t give a shit about Burnley and refused to change.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

What gives you that confidence?

I’m extremely confident that there’s a chance that mistakes may not be seen as often…

[notnowcato]

44 minutes ago, derry said:

Because of the possession obsession we have turned the game on it's head, THB, Bednarek and Stephens have the most possession, how rediculous is that. Over his whole career, Stephens has had problems, specifically ball watching and concentration together with making stupid passes that drop colleagues in it and giving the ball away. A lot of it when under no pressure. Now he's playing in a system that is exposing him to pressure more than any other time. Not only has he been made captain he is shoehorned into the side on a regular basis. How does this equate with the theory that this manager is cleverer than most?

Is this a theory that you’ve concocted?

[notnowcato]

40 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Yeah, chances are you’re right.  Now we’ve got the big guns like Forest, Brentford & the 10 men of Newcastle out  the way, mistakes won’t be punished so ruthlessly from now on in. If we keep playing like this I’m sure we’ll be fine. 

Brentford are one of the most aggressive pressing teams in the league, it’s a huge part of their strategy. It doesn’t always work for them, they go on runs of defeats too. 

[derry]

38 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Yeah but when the reaction to what is happening on the pitch is the usual;

RM is too stubborn to change things (well he did change lots of things last season),

RM can't set up a defence (when it mattered we conceded 1 goal over three playoff games - a 97th minute consolation from WBA),

RM has never achieved anything (well he did get us promoted at the first time of asking after inheriting a mess of a team with zero confidence)

RM got lucky with our promotion or we finished 4th (worse than finishing 3rd and not getting promoted it seems),

then you can clearly tell that they don't want the manager here, without the need for them to actually say it. It's the same people that were saying it on this thread last September, and they're back for another go just so that they can have some sort of weird 'I told you so' moment.

With due respect RM was managing a team going into the playoffs after falling off a cliff and if my memory is correct facing Leeds away losing three on the trot incuding Cardiff, 0-5 away to Leicester and Stoke at home. That was a rude awakening. Do nothing and we were likely to crash out of the playoffs. As it happened we caught Leeds on a good day for us then WBA and Leeds in the final. A narrow one goal win but enough.

Not only was McCarthy who is incompetent playing out, in goal, we did very little rotating the ball as we are doing now. The mere fact he was insisting that McCarthy conform now against Newcastle was a step too far leading to our defeat.

I don't want his sacking but I do want to see more common sense. We have stepped into a bear pit as one of the weakest teams in the league at this moment in time. I love possession football in the opponents half not kamikaze passing in our own penalty area. Personally any team that plays purely short possession football is going nowhere. Apart from Man City all the best teams play a mix of long and short and have no problem hitting it very long if pressed at the back.

[obelisk]

13 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Brentford are one of the most aggressive pressing teams in the league, it’s a huge part of their strategy. It doesn’t always work for them, they go on runs of defeats too. 

A bit daft to walk straight into their trap and present them with a couple of tap-ins then wasn't it? Mind you, if Armstrong hadn't caught the Adams disease of missing open goals then maybe it could have turned out different although I wouldn't be confident about that.

[malcolm waldron]

56 minutes ago, kitch said:

TBH I read both of those as accurate. What we're seeing on the pitch supports the second comment, but some logic and common sense supports the first. I'm not saying we should all blindly follow RM, or that he's right in the way he's doing what he's doing, but we're not in the meetings. We don't KNOW what is said to players.

With only 3 games on the board, it's too early to start to suggesting the issue is the boss. He's not even had a chance to reset things yet, and he's earned that in the bank from last season.
If, after the next 3 games we're seeing rinse & repeat; Smallbone, Stephens and Armstrong still as PL starters, overpassing all over the pitch and possession for possession's sake, then I'd probably join the ranks of those who think RM needs replacing (or a wake-up slap at the very least), but the man's earned a chance IMO.
He seems to be an excellent communicator and man-manager, I just hope he can improve the tactical side of his game. Needs to be more ruthless, more adaptable and more pragmatic.
Seems a good man, I hope he can do it.

But as we've said previously, it was fairly obvious to us as fans who have watched these players play at this level previously (that they weren't good enough).  And I get the loyalty aspect but all that means is that we've blown some points this season in (at least) two games where we would have expected/hoped to get a result - turning it into a 35 match season.  I haven't highlighted Armstrong above because I'm still hoping once he gets a goal he'll come good.....

[derry]

14 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Is this a theory that you’ve concocted?

No, just observing Stephens over the years. He really isn't good enough. His ball watching has lost us a host of goals over the years. Specifically he allows his mark to get blindside then win the ball while he is watching it. He never positions his body so he can see his mark and the ball.

[Kermitzasaint]

5 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

I’m well aware we’re playing in a different environment but I don’t think 3 games in said environment is reasonable amount to make wild conclusions on. Just like I didn’t think a small amount of games last season was a reasonable amount of games to judge the same person on. 

Last season we had a vastly superior squad than almost all the other teams. We didn't need to be that good to scrape by. 

This season we are the weakest team in the league. We also have the poorest coach. RM has shown in these 4 games that he is incapable of strategy, picking a formation that works, reacting quickly, preparing and training the team. His weakest traits are still as consistent as ever. He has shown that he hasn't learnt a damned thing. 

[Mr X]

Probably a joke of a site but this hints that the club are ready to pull the trigger should things not improve by end of September https://www.footballinsider247.com/exclusive-russell-martin-fighting-for-his-job-at-southampton/

[gio1saints]

4 minutes ago, derry said:

No, just observing Stephens over the years. He really isn't good enough. His ball watching has lost us a host of goals over the years. Specifically he allows his mark to get blindside then win the ball while he is watching it. He never positions his body so he can see his mark and the ball.

I personally think that he could be dropped too - but not because I agree he’s crap - but rather for technical reasons : not playing 3CB’s every match. 

Being replaced by Lallana further up the field seems an obvs move to me in such 433-like formations.

Arguably we’d lose no on pitch tempo-determining leadership but gain ball retention ability and offensive impetus, especially at home. Him and Flynn don’t give the ball away too often and when he gets tired we simply put Les on. 

Oh, and this has the added benefit that Saints do not need to sack RM and his team (giving them millions to go on garden leave ) whilst we hope to find someone willing to work at Saints. 
There are many tweaks twists changes adjustments revisions substitutions tactical variances and flexible amendments call it what you like available to RM. Anyone who thinks he is too thick or too arrogant to avail himself of them are mistaken imo. Time will tell. 

[saintant]

9 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

I personally think that he could be dropped too - but not because I agree he’s crap - but rather for technical reasons : not playing 3CB’s every match. 

Being replaced by Lallana further up the field seems an obvs move to me in such 433-like formations.

Arguably we’d lose no on pitch tempo-determining leadership but gain ball retention ability and offensive impetus, especially at home. Him and Flynn don’t give the ball away too often and when he gets tired we simply put Les on. 

Oh, and this has the added benefit that Saints do not need to sack RM and his team (giving them millions to go on garden leave ) whilst we hope to find someone willing to work at Saints. 
There are many tweaks twists changes adjustments revisions substitutions tactical variances and flexible amendments call it what you like available to RM. Anyone who thinks he is too thick or too arrogant to avail himself of them are mistaken imo. Time will tell. 

He has admitted on numerous occasions that he will make no compromises on how his teams play. It's pretty evident that he is not suddenly going to adopt different tactics. The most we can hope for is a few more long passes from Ramsdale similar to when McCarthy stepped in at the end of last season. I'm not overly convinced he has much more in his locker because I've not really seen him do anything much to change the course of a game by switching tactics. Bit of a one trick pony perhaps.

Edited September 4 by saintant

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, derry said:

How does this equate with the theory that this manager is cleverer than most?

 

49 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Is this a theory that you’ve concocted?

 

30 minutes ago, derry said:

No, just observing Stephens over the years. He really isn't good enough. His ball watching has lost us a host of goals over the years. Specifically he allows his mark to get blindside then win the ball while he is watching it. He never positions his body so he can see his mark and the ball.

Come on Derry, you’re smarter than that. The “theory” was attached to Russell i.e. he’s cleverer than most, not your opinion on Stephens. 

[derry]

19 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

I personally think that he could be dropped too - but not because I agree he’s crap - but rather for technical reasons : not playing 3CB’s every match. 

Being replaced by Lallana further up the field seems an obvs move to me in such 433-like formations.

Arguably we’d lose no on pitch tempo-determining leadership but gain ball retention ability and offensive impetus, especially at home. Him and Flynn don’t give the ball away too often and when he gets tired we simply put Les on. 

Oh, and this has the added benefit that Saints do not need to sack RM and his team (giving them millions to go on garden leave ) whilst we hope to find someone willing to work at Saints. 
There are many tweaks twists changes adjustments revisions substitutions tactical variances and flexible amendments call it what you like available to RM. Anyone who thinks he is too thick or too arrogant to avail himself of them are mistaken imo. Time will tell. 

Of course time will tell, it always does, however stubborness is a major impediment to the changes you are seeing. I'll believe it when it happens. With all the signings there has to be major changes in the team. Retaining the kamikaze passing at the back will still relegate us. Personally I think lose at home to Ipswich and away to Bournemouth could be too much for SR. Graham Potter anyone?

Edited September 4 by derry

[notnowcato]

23 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Probably a joke of a site but this hints that the club are ready to pull the trigger should things not improve by end of September https://www.footballinsider247.com/exclusive-russell-martin-fighting-for-his-job-at-southampton/

It might be true but more likely click bait. Don’t feed the baiters!!!

[derry]

1 minute ago, notnowcato said:

 

 

Come on Derry, you’re smarter than that. The “theory” was attached to Russell i.e. he’s cleverer than most, not your opinion on Stephens. 

Maybe how he sees himself.

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, derry said:

Of course time will tell, it always does, however stubborness is a major impediment the the changes you are seeing. I'll believe it when it happens. With all the signings there has to be major changes in the team. Retaining the kamikaze passing at the back will still relegate us. Personally I think lose at home to Ipswich and away to Bournemouth could be too much for SR. Graham Potter anyone?

You missed out the next fixture Man Utd at home. I'm guessing you're thinking we'll lose that one 🙂

[Midfield_General]

3 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

It might be true but more likely click bait. Don’t feed the baiters!!!

I've clicked it so others don't have to. Doing the Lord's work here. 

'Sources say', with no quotes or evidence whatsoever. 

Absolute fraud of a site. Ignore. 

[notnowcato]

3 minutes ago, derry said:

Maybe how he sees himself.

So not a theory then, you made it up. Cool 😎 

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

So not a theory then, you made it up. Cool 😎 

Aren't theories "made up" by definition....? Otherwise they'd be facts, not theories...?

(I have a theory you may disagree with me...  )

Edited September 4 by trousers

[derry]

2 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

So not a theory then, you made it up. Cool 😎 

More my impression than a theory.😇

[gio1saints]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Aren't theories "made up" by definition....? Otherwise they'd be facts, not theories...?

Like your theory that if you don’t think RM is an idiot then you must be a sycophant or over defensive eh? 🥳

[trousers]

2 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Like your theory that if you don’t think RM is an idiot then you must be a sycophant or over defensive eh? 🥳

Are you my wife? She's always twisting my words to imply something that I didn't say....

I'll make it easy for you... (see, this patronising malarkey is child's play....  )

- I don't think RM is an idiot 

- I'm not a sycophant nor over defensive of RM

It's almost as if both of those stances aren't mutually exclusive....

 

Edited September 4 by trousers

[notnowcato]

21 minutes ago, trousers said:

Aren't theories "made up" by definition....? Otherwise they'd be facts, not theories...?

(I have a theory you may disagree with me...  )

Semantics and rather boring but as you asked….

“the theory…” is somewhat different to “a theory”. 

[tdmickey3]

3 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Fair enough.
Small point- I do not claim he is revolutionary. In response to his insistence on playing  the way we do being called footballing insanity I agreed. It’s insane is probably a synonym for “ way different than what fans and managers are supposed to do when they go up.”. 
RM has not invented anything. All he is currently doing is trying his best to get our team playing a possession based style. He is simply more determined ( or stupid depends on your take) than most other managers to make it work.
His “ changes” happen though- sometimes belatedly like Saturday hooking AA and WS - other times it takes a few games- such as last season reverting to a 5 on a couple of occasions-  belatedly or not he does tinker. 

Just not enough and fast enough for some is all.

I wonder if he were sacked tomorrow how many matches the new manager would get to acclimatise to the EPL with this squad before some on here demand he is sacked and shower him with nasty abuse? Three? Ten? Three is already enough for Russell on this forum,m for some.which, to me, is laughable. 

He may well be determined and that determination will most likely have us back in the championship with a record goals conceded and an bloody low points total, we seem to have to repeat this to posters like you, we don't want him sacked a such, we just want him to alter his style to suit the division we are in and the teams we will face.

There is no hiding place in this division unlike the championship where you could get away against a lot of teams

If he can`t or refuses do that then he needs to go ASAP so we can get someone in who will

[Forkbeard]

I get the impression that now he's in the Premier League with a nice contract extension Martin has reverted to his usual nonsense?

It's a frequent ocurrence with him. He'll try to make his style work and results will tank. He'll then switch to something that actually makes sense and results will improve for a bit. As soon as he feels comfortable again out comes the "philosophy". We saw it happen a good half dozen times at Swansea. You'll probably notice him make a few changes that make sense in a game or two but it won't last.

Edited September 4 by Forkbeard

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, notnowcato said:

I think there’s a chance that the mistakes we have seen in the 3 league games so far may not occur as often going forward. Time will tell. 

I wouldn’t call them mistakes, unless you’re referring to the suicidal passes themselves. We invite pressure and pressure causes turnovers. In the two recent instances the only solution was for the recipient of the pass to hoof the ball upfield unceremoniously, in which case what was the point of the pass in the first place?

See, this is what I don’t get. If it doesn’t go wrong we may have passed the ball around four or five times simply to end up back where we started. How is creating an extra man or more importantly, ever going to lead to a goal for us?

[trousers]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Semantics and rather boring

I've only been on the forum for 20 years.... You'll get used to it after a while...

Edited September 4 by trousers

[lhammondo]

Seemingly a divided set of opinions on RM, so who replaces him (realistically) if said trigger is pulled?

[Gingeletiss]

2 minutes ago, lhammondo said:

Seemingly a divided set of opinions on RM, so who replaces him (realistically) if said trigger is pulled?

Plenty, Google out of work football managers, some big names there.

[St. Neil]

We've just missed out on Steve Bruce.

[BarberSaint]

Someone asked which manager I did like.

In a roundabout way, how would the present incumbent have this team playing:

 

Flowers

Dodd Osman Ruddock Benali

Le Tissier Case Cockerill Wallace

Shearer Wallace

?

Someone's mentioned the value of new personnel. How about this?

RM "So, new fella, what's your name?"

DM "Diego".

RM "Welcome Diego.  How good are you at passing back to the goalie from the opposition penalty box?"

DM "Que?"

RM "Ah, I see we'll need to put you in the reserves for a year or two before selling you on the cheap."

RM, turning to the other new player: "So, what's your name?"

Pele "Pele"

RM "Pele what? McTavish? Did you once drink some Irn bru and so are eligible to play for the best team in Scotland, like me?"

Pele "Just Pele"

RM "Not Scottish by ancestry or desperation, eh? I can't see you'll ever play international football. Anyway, how many times have you dallied on the ball in your own area before being robbed by a hungry forward who wants his win bonus?"

Pele "Er...none"

RM "Right, it's off to Goztepe with you then!"

[The Cat]

8 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

When Bednerek and Stephens are no. 1 & 2 for most touches of the ball you know something isn't right. You dont need any other stats to back that up, the two least technical and capable with the ball at their feet (outfield) is frightening.

The top 10 players with the most touches of the ball in the league are all CB's. 

In fact the only non defenders in the top 20 are Downes, Madison and Kovacic.

[The Cat]

I didn't see the game at the weekend because I was in a field listening to music and drinking beer.

Got back to work today and spoke to a Brentford fan about the game and he said we played pretty well apart from the 2 silly goals.

Having flicked through here I expected that he was going to tell me we played like a park team and were lucky not to let in about 7.

[Maggie May]

Good job we’ve been relegated three games in. I don’t think I’d be able to handle the negativity.

[bugenhagen]

51 minutes ago, BarberSaint said:

Someone asked which manager I did like.

In a roundabout way, how would the present incumbent have this team playing:

 

Flowers

Dodd Osman Ruddock Benali

Le Tissier Case Cockerill Wallace

Shearer Wallace

?

Wait... where does Stephens fit? 😉

[manji]

4 hours ago, notnowcato said:

It might be true but more likely click bait. Don’t feed the baiters!!!

Article is bullshit . Wasn’t that long ago RM received a very lucrative contract. SR knew exactly what they were getting and backed him financially. He’s a very long way from getting the sack.

i struggle with the mentality of some fans. The same lot that wanted him to get the push last season are back. I don’t get why you would want Saints to do badly just so you can say you are right. 

[Luke SkyWalker-Peters]

I feel that if there hasn't been any improvement after the Ipswich game that he'll be gone. That nice 9 days before playing Bournemouth seems ideal for a manager change.

But obviously we will need to have had results in the league for him to still be with us after the international break a couple of weeks later.

I could see the club giving Lallana a go while they search for a manager. He ticks all the boxes of players likely to have instant success as a manager: played central midfield, played at the top level for a top club, played under numerous great managers with differing styles, is an intelligent player that didn't rely on physical ability or pure technique, been a captain etc... I could see him possibly replicating that Arteta, Xavi, Alonso transition straight to management, or possibly not. Would be a good time for him to give it a go while Klopp is taking a sabbatical, as he could have someone to mentor him in an official or unofficial capacity.

I'm almost certain the club would have Potter as their no.1 choice though, he is proven at delivering a possession style in the Premier League.

On Martin himself, I like him but am yet to be impressed. I think he underperformed in the league last year with what was the second best squad in the Championship in my opinion. He is so rigid in his style that it is to the detriment of players we already had that did not suit it. I feel like more players have regressed under him than improved. Some looked better because we dropped a level.

It seems like a real struggle for players to play his system. He asks them to do too much and its unsurprising that they are making mistakes.

There is nothing wrong with passing out the back, or possession systems, but possession managers make it easier for their players to find passes. Martin does not seem to do this. Everyone finds it extremely hard to get out of our own half. No easy passes that then move us up the pitch quickly. And then when we do move up the pitch, we do it so slowly that our attacking players find it difficult to create good chances as they are facing a structured defence.

I absolutely feel that he deserves a chance and I hope things drastically improve. However, I cannot fathom who decided he should get a contract extension after finishing 4th in the Championship and I hope the club keep a fairly short leash on him like they did with Nathan Jones. We have a genuine chance to stay up, we should not tie ourselves to Martin if he's a sinking anchor.

[saintant]

35 minutes ago, The Cat said:

I didn't see the game at the weekend because I was in a field listening to music and drinking beer.

Got back to work today and spoke to a Brentford fan about the game and he said we played pretty well apart from the 2 silly goals.

Having flicked through here I expected that he was going to tell me we played like a park team and were lucky not to let in about 7.

Played pretty well apart from the 2 silly goals - therein lies the problem that most of us are continually discussing after a game. You can play as well as you like but if you are constantly gifting goals to the opposition you will not collect many points. If RM cannot stop the silly goals conceded playing in his system he either has to change the way we play (which he's consistently said he won't) or his time as a manager in the Premier League will be a short one. Even if the owners are prepared to put up with it the fans won't and nor should they.