Russell Martin

[a1ex2001]

17 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

 

 

The answer is not to get rid of the manager after 3 games tho. 

Surely it is if the manager is the problem and he is unwilling to change then he should go? Nobody else is responsible for telling players without the ability to do it to play the ball around in our own box and invite the opposition onto us time and time again. 

If Martin swallows his pride, sets us up differently against United and ditches the suicidal tippy tappy in the box nonsense then I'm ok with him staying but if he is unwilling to change and change quickly then he will be the reason we go down this season.

Edited September 2 by a1ex2001

[Gloucester Saint]

34 minutes ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

Forest at home was disappointing, an anti-climax, we were fucking dire. Spirits were lifted at Cardiff, it was entertaining albeit against a lower side’s B-team and we could easily have lost it before the 2 late goals. But we had a striker who hit the net twice (he’s certainly starting at Brentford…), Fernandes was excellent and withdrawn early (he’s another one) and Big Les was surely starting alongside Downes. That was probably most fans thinking.

Cue Saturday and we get the same starting line-up as the Forest debacle,,,and same mistakes…knocked back before we’d even started.

RM says he won’t change the way we play, every other PL side must be saying “thank you very much, you’re making it very easy for us”. Russ may love it that the players are sticking to his principles with all this possession and passing (until pressed) and may very well dismiss fan criticism as what-do-they-know but he’s got ex-pro pundits calling out his tactics each week, can his assistant coaches not see where this is heading?

If you’ve got £40-50m players in every position you can get away with it but that rules out 75% of the PL

I like the fella, hope he changes it.

Agree with that word for word, including the last sentence

[Huffton]

1 hour ago, saintant said:

Seems the owners are not learning when it comes to dishing out long contracts to those who have not demonstrated that they deserve them.

Do you actually believe there isn't a performance clause in there somewhere?  These things aren't drawn up on the back of a beer mat down the pub, even Saints ones...

[saintant]

15 minutes ago, Huffton said:

Do you actually believe there isn't a performance clause in there somewhere?  These things aren't drawn up on the back of a beer mat down the pub, even Saints ones...

Makes you wonder why we were paying Ralph so long after he left doesn't it. You can add Nathan Jones to that too.

Edited September 2 by saintant

[derry]

Martin didn't win promotion finishing fourth. He won the promotion lottery, how? he ditched the style he's reimposed and went pragmatic for four games. We won the shootout at Wembley with a goal and a clean sheet. He get's the prize, a place in the Premier League then promptly reverts to the tactics that despite his boasting hadn't won a thing in five years. Having lucked out and had £100m to spend we are back where we started, playing the same stupid way. Usiing the same pragmatic formation, playing stupid, proves to me that if we hadn't cut out the stupidity we wouldn't have made it through the play offs. He needs to change or be changed. We need to play clever not like a poor man's Manchester City in a rich man's league.

[Miltonaggro]

18 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

That's what I fear. But I wouldn't call the investment commendable, it's not their money they are pissing down the toilet, it's Dragan's.

And he seems to still trust Rasmus and SR with it. 🙁

I meant Dragan, however it’s framed it’s his investment and loss.  The Board overall along with Martin are attempting to learn on the hoof, and some in senior positions are clearly chancers to everyone but the owner. They appear daft enough to think if we are relegated we come straight back up again. Cortese and Adkins provide the best comparators to the current decision making on and off the park. 

[Turkish]

He has to change. If he doesn't we will be down by february and we will get absolutely pumped by the better teams. 

[Dusic]

6 minutes ago, derry said:

Martin didn't win promotion finishing fourth. He won the promotion lottery, how? he ditched the style he's reimposed and went pragmatic for four games. We won the shootout at Wembley with a goal and a clean sheet. He get's the prize, a place in the Premier League then promptly reverts to the tactics that despite his boasting hadn't won a thing in five years. Having lucked out and had £100m to spend we are back where we started, playing the same stupid way. Usiing the same pragmatic formation, playing stupid, proves to me that if we hadn't cut out the stupidity we wouldn't have made it through the play offs. He needs to change or be changed. We need to play clever not like a poor man's Manchester City in a rich man's league.

IMO the issue is actually that after winning promotion he hasn't gone back to what we did last season and he has actually carried on with the playoff tactics.

3 CBs and 3 CMs gave us some solidity in the very specific situation of playoff games at the expense of our attacking threat (until the Smallbone goal we hadn't done much over 150mins vs WBA) and he has stuck with it. 

His style cleaely works best with a 4-3-3 but he hasnt been brave enough to setup like that, likely for fear of a few thrashings - certainoy away vs Newcastle had the potential for that.

Playing out from the back is easier when everyone knows their role and when defenders have players in front of them to pick out. Made harder when players occupy the same space or have no obvious options. We spent 95% of last season in a 4-3-3 where roles were clear and now in some positions we have better players.

Teams at PL level (aside from us) won't gift goals and you have to have some kind of attacking threat to keep them honest. The way we have setup just hasnt given that.

We very likely will go down, as have one of the worst 3 squads anyway before a ball is kicked...but our best chance under RM will be to play his style and system fully rather than the wimpy hybrid that we have used so far.

Edited September 2 by Dusic

[derry]

1 minute ago, Dusic said:

IMO the issue is actually that after winning promotion he hasn't gone back to what we did last season and he has actually carried on with the playoff tactics.

3 CBs and 3 CMs gave us some solidity in the very specific situation of playoff games at the expense of our attacking threat (until the Smallbone goal we hadn't done much over 150mins vs WBA) and he has stuck with it. 

His style cleaely works best with a 4-3-3 but he hasnt been brave enough to setup like that, likely for fear of a few thrashings - certainoy away vs Newcastle had the potential for that.

Teams at PL level (aside from us) won't gift goals and you have to have some kind of attacking threat to keep them honest. The way we have setup just hasnt given that.

We very likely will go down, as have one of the worst 3 squads anyway before a ball is kicked...but our best chance under RM will be to play his sttle and system fully rather than the wimpy hybrid that we have used so far.

You missed the main point, yes, he maintained the play off formation but he reverted to the tippy tappy in our area whereas in the play offs he abandoned it and went more direct. Now the tippy tappy is back and killing us. What's worse the players know it and have nowhere to go.

[Dusic]

5 minutes ago, derry said:

You missed the main point, yes, he maintained the play off formation but he reverted to the tippy tappy in our area whereas in the play offs he abandoned it and went more direct. Now the tippy tappy is back and killing us. What's worse the players know it and have nowhere to go.

It was perhaps slightly toned down in the playoffs but certainly not abandoned. WBA were happy to sit off and Leeds forwards, especially Gnonto and Summerville are pathetic from a pressing perpsective - certainly different levels from the teams we face at this level.

Despite what people want (understandably) he will never move away from that side of it so we have to hope they will a.) make better decisions on the ball and b.) be structurally better setup so they have more forward options.

I think with a few changes to personnel, setup and decision making we can be much better and safer at doing it and Ramsdale will help too.

Like with the goal at Newcastle the mistake gets rightly highlighted but the cause of the situation is usually from a few actions ago e.g decision to turn back in midfield or lack of options for defenders to pick out.

As showed when Dibling came on and started combining with Sugawara, we are a far better team in a 4-3-3 and everyone is more comfortable in possession. But does he have the balls to drop a CB?

[Gingeletiss]

Regardless of how we play, or set up, playing with Stephens, Smallbone and Aribo, will result in losses. They are Championship at best. 4-3-3 is how we should set up. As has been said, other teams play this possession based football, the difference, when they draw the opposition out, they attack fast. We wait until they all get back behind the ball, making it almost impossible, so we play the ball back. How many times have we got to the opposition 18 yard box, then two passes later it’s at our goalkeeper’s feet again. For me it’s RM out.

[derry]

1 minute ago, Dusic said:

It was perhaps slightly toned down in the playoffs but certainly not abandoned. WBA were happy to sit off and Leeds forwards, especially Gnonto and Summerville are pathetic from a pressing perpsective - certainly different levels from the teams we face at this level.

Despite what people want (understandably) he will never move away from that side of it so we have to hope they will a.) make better decisions on the ball and b.) be structurally better setup so they have more forward options.

I think with a few changes to personnel, setup and decision making we can be much better and safer at doing it and Ramsdale will help too.

Like with the goal at Newcastle the mistake gets rightly highlighted but the cause of the situation is usually from a few actions ago e.g decision to turn back in midfield or lack of options for defenders to pick out.

As showed when Dibling came on and started combining with Sugawara, we are a far better team in a 4-3-3 and everyone is more comfortable in possession. But does he have the balls to drop a CB?

IMO he has to ditch Stephens and raise the tempo moving the ball upfield rapidly, but not leaving us outnumbered at the back like MU v Liverpool often 4 v 2.

[Galway saint]

34 minutes ago, Dusic said:

IMO the issue is actually that after winning promotion he hasn't gone back to what we did last season and he has actually carried on with the playoff tactics.

3 CBs and 3 CMs gave us some solidity in the very specific situation of playoff games at the expense of our attacking threat (until the Smallbone goal we hadn't done much over 150mins vs WBA) and he has stuck with it. 

His style cleaely works best with a 4-3-3 but he hasnt been brave enough to setup like that, likely for fear of a few thrashings - certainoy away vs Newcastle had the potential for that.

Playing out from the back is easier when everyone knows their role and when defenders have players in front of them to pick out. Made harder when players occupy the same space or have no obvious options. We spent 95% of last season in a 4-3-3 where roles were clear and now in some positions we have better players.

Teams at PL level (aside from us) won't gift goals and you have to have some kind of attacking threat to keep them honest. The way we have setup just hasnt given that.

We very likely will go down, as have one of the worst 3 squads anyway before a ball is kicked...but our best chance under RM will be to play his style and system fully rather than the wimpy hybrid that we have used so far.

but his full style resulted in us conceding 67 goals in the championship with largely the same defence and prior to that he had a poor defensive record at other clubs, so his style leaks goals and when you have a largely championship attack, it’s not a good outlook. 

[Whitey Grandad]

46 minutes ago, Turkish said:

He has to change. If he doesn't we will be down by february and we will get absolutely pumped by the better teams. 

For things to change, we have to change.

[Whitey Grandad]

28 minutes ago, Dusic said:

It was perhaps slightly toned down in the playoffs but certainly not abandoned. WBA were happy to sit off and Leeds forwards, especially Gnonto and Summerville are pathetic from a pressing perpsective - certainly different levels from the teams we face at this level.

Despite what people want (understandably) he will never move away from that side of it so we have to hope they will a.) make better decisions on the ball and b.) be structurally better setup so they have more forward options.

I think with a few changes to personnel, setup and decision making we can be much better and safer at doing it and Ramsdale will help too.

Like with the goal at Newcastle the mistake gets rightly highlighted but the cause of the situation is usually from a few actions ago e.g decision to turn back in midfield or lack of options for defenders to pick out.

As showed when Dibling came on and started combining with Sugawara, we are a far better team in a 4-3-3 and everyone is more comfortable in possession. But does he have the balls to drop a Stephens?

There. Fixed it for you 😁

[gio1saints]

5 minutes ago, derry said:

IMO he has to ditch Stephens and raise the tempo moving the ball upfield rapidly, but not leaving us outnumbered at the back like MU v Liverpool often 4 v 2.

Think that’s our go-to offensive approach - which I think plays more to our current squad players strengths than how we’ve started season - too conservatively. 

Dropping a CB ( prob. Stephens) and inserting another player, most likely a MF, would probably mean less chance of the 3CB’s ( now 2CB’s) passing to each other too much in dangerous areas. 

It would instead be most likely a Flynn or new other MF who is available for the pass after Jan and THB have played pat-a-cake with the ball for a while - or one of the others. 
 

Either way the ball is further away from our goal - there are more recipients ahead/forward for the ball ( as opposed to behind or sideways) and the option to go long still exists. 

[saintant]

52 minutes ago, Gingeletiss said:

Regardless of how we play, or set up, playing with Stephens, Smallbone and Aribo, will result in losses. They are Championship at best. 4-3-3 is how we should set up. As has been said, other teams play this possession based football, the difference, when they draw the opposition out, they attack fast. We wait until they all get back behind the ball, making it almost impossible, so we play the ball back. How many times have we got to the opposition 18 yard box, then two passes later it’s at our goalkeeper’s feet again. For me it’s RM out.

Two of you have opted for 433 but I think we'd suit 4231 better and it's what most teams play these days including the elite ones. I'm assuming our players would be familiar with it and could adopt to it quite quickly but it won't happen with the current manager. I watch us and we are a mess with no shape or obvious purpose and I'm not even sure what formation we play apart from something concocted by RM that he thinks will conquer football.

[kenneth_kenobi]

5 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

I don't get this passing around the back, not only is it a form of Russian roulette, I find it boring. As soon as we needed to score goals on Saturday we played normally and looked quite dangerous. Make runs and look for the killer pass! Its as simple as that!

Worst rule change ever was this stupid short goal kick, actually encourages stuffing about at the back

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, derry said:

Martin didn't win promotion finishing fourth. He won the promotion lottery, how? he ditched the style he's reimposed and went pragmatic for four games. We won the shootout at Wembley with a goal and a clean sheet. He get's the prize, a place in the Premier League then promptly reverts to the tactics that despite his boasting hadn't won a thing in five years. Having lucked out and had £100m to spend we are back where we started, playing the same stupid way. Usiing the same pragmatic formation, playing stupid, proves to me that if we hadn't cut out the stupidity we wouldn't have made it through the play offs. He needs to change or be changed. We need to play clever not like a poor man's Manchester City in a rich man's league.

You do remember the goal we scored at Wembley, you know, the one where possession was kept from defence, through midfield, perfect through ball and cool finish - we scored many goals like that through the season. There was no ditching of style, a tweak to the formation yes but the principles remained the same. 

[benjii]

The key is to get as many PL quality players as possible on the pitch at the same time, IMO.

From our current squad, those are:

Ramsdale

KWP

Sugawara

Taylor

ABK if arsed

Janny B (if hes got a good partner and GK)

Downes (IMO)

Fernandes (hopefully)

Lallana (but probably can't play 90 mins so need to find another option too)

Maybe Officer Dibbles, but let's not break him

Cornet

 

I would try this:

----------------Rambo-----------

Suga---Bedders---THB/ABK---Taylor

---------Downes-----Les--------

Cornet-------Fernandes-----KWP

‐--------------BBD/Archer--------

Lallana and Dibbling can come on for the last 35 minutes (if it turns out Dibbling is too good not to start then we can figure that out later).

 

Edited September 2 by benjii

[saintant]

3 minutes ago, kenneth_kenobi said:

Worst rule change ever was this stupid short goal kick, actually encourages stuffing about at the back

You make a good point but it doesn't have to result in presenting the ball on a plate to the opposition. Plenty of teams have no problem with it and many seem to have more than one way of progressing up the pitch from a goal kick. They never look overly rushed or hard pressed by the opposition. It's the likes of us who haven't developed a way of playing out from a goal kick who end up in a blind panic being pressed harder because the opposition know it's a weakness and smell blood so it's self perpetuating. 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

You do remember the goal we scored at Wembley, you know, the one where possession was kept from defence, through midfield, perfect through ball and cool finish - we scored many goals like that through the season. There was no ditching of style, a tweak to the formation yes but the principles remained the same. 

We only scored the one goal. Far too close for comfort. Don’t forget that Leeds (Dan James?) hit the crossbar and how differently it could all have ended. 
 

We didn’t need possession football to score that goal and without it we might have scored more. Who knows, we might even have got automatic promotion without it.

[Whitey Grandad]

11 minutes ago, kenneth_kenobi said:

Worst rule change ever was this stupid short goal kick, actually encourages stuffing about at the back

It isn’t compulsory you know. It’s just a short-term fashion.

[notnowcato]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We only scored the one goal. Far too close for comfort. Don’t forget that Leeds (Dan James?) hit the crossbar and how differently it could all have ended. 
 

We didn’t need possession football to score that goal and without it we might have scored more. Who knows, we might even have got automatic promotion without it.

The goal was all about possession, impossible to argue against that. 
 

You can “what if” all you like, finals are generally tight affairs, we absolutely deserved to win that match and the only stat that really counts backs that up. 

[notnowcato]

8 minutes ago, benjii said:

The key is to get as many PL quality players as possible on the pitch at the same time, IMO.

From our current squad, those are:

Ramsdale

KWP

Sugawara

Taylor

ABK if arsed

Janny B (if hes got a good partner and GK)

Downes (IMO)

Fernandes (hopefully)

Lallana (but probably can't play 90 mins so need to find another option too)

Maybe Officer Dibbles, but let's not break him

Cornet

 

I would try this:

----------------Rambo-----------

Suga---Bedders---THB/ABK---Taylor

---------Downes-----Les--------

Cornet-------Fernandes-----KWP

‐--------------BBD/Archer--------

Lallana and Dibbling can come on for the last 35 minutes (if it turns out Dibbling is too good not to start then we can figure that out later).

 

I know it was only Cardiff but ABKs presence on the pitch was really good to see. 
There’s been a lot shit chucked in his direction, I’m not sure how much of that was truly warranted. If he gets back in the team, he could make a big difference. 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

The goal was all about possession, impossible to argue against that. 
 

You can “what if” all you like, finals are generally tight affairs, we absolutely deserved to win that match and the only stat that really counts backs that up. 

Well derrrr. We didn’t lose possession until the ball went into their net. But there were other times where we did lose possession and didn’t score. Luckily Leeds didn’t either.

But let’s not delude ourselves. That final wasn’t won by playing tricky-tacky football around our own penalty area all day.

[notnowcato]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Well derrrr. We didn’t lose possession until the ball went into their net. But there were other times where we did lose possession and didn’t score. Luckily Leeds didn’t either.

But let’s not delude ourselves. That final wasn’t won by playing tricky-tacky football around our own penalty area all day.

I’m sure you’ve gotten to your stage in life by being more respectful. 
 

Many shit goals are scored, many average goals are scored, some by possession some by sticking it in the mixer. The winning goal in the final was possession based. 

[Hopper]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Well derrrr. We didn’t lose possession until the ball went into their net. But there were other times where we did lose possession and didn’t score. Luckily Leeds didn’t either.

But let’s not delude ourselves. That final wasn’t won by playing tricky-tacky football around our own penalty area all day.

I think you need to watch the goal again. It’s scored from play built from the back and passed about the back line then through the midfield. 

[saintant]

1 minute ago, notnowcato said:

I know it was only Cardiff but ABKs presence on the pitch was really good to see. 
There’s been a lot shit chucked in his direction, I’m not sure how much of that was truly warranted. If he gets back in the team, he could make a big difference. 

Agree. ABK has bags of potential and is a beast. I've no clue of the truth or otherwise about him being difficult to manage but if he doesn't leave in this window RM needs to sit him down and try to find a way to get him onside so we can benefit from his undoubted talents - not least because our current 3 centre backs haven't started the season particularly well.

[CanadaSaint]

IMO Martin hit a fork in the road when we failed to sign Biljow, who was comfortable with his “play out from the back all the time” style.

We then spent 25 million on Ramsdale, for whom “playing out” is definitely not a strength. However, one of his real strong suits is the crisp out-ball to wide, pacy attackers. We also brought back Fraser and loaned Cornet – two solid targets for the early out-ball. Finally, we have the makings of a Plan B which could make us less vulnerable to the press – the weakness in Martin’s style that every opponent knows about and exploits. Nothing emboldens a press more than predictability, but a good Plan B blunts the press because they fear being bypassed.

But Fraser and Cornet were unavailable on Saturday, so we don’t know yet whether Martin is willing to use Ramsdale’s special skill to give us the Plan B we desperately need.

I’m willing to wait and see if pragmatism can overpower Martin’s arrogance and obstinacy. His insistence on playing out from the back, to me, is a “keeper killer”. I can’t see ownership sitting idly by if he doesn’t use their 25 million asset properly, and his confidence starts to take a nosedive.

[Lord Duckhunter]

How does scoring a goal against a Championship side prove anything in the premier league? 
 

Fuck me, Adam Armstrong scored a goal against a championship keeper and a championship defence, how can anyone question Lego after that? That goal proves we’re on the right track ….

[Hopper]

1 minute ago, CanadaSaint said:

IMO Martin hit a fork in the road when we failed to sign Biljow, who was comfortable with his “play out from the back all the time” style.

We then spent 25 million on Ramsdale, for whom “playing out” is definitely not a strength. However, one of his real strong suits is the crisp out-ball to wide, pacy attackers. We also brought back Fraser and loaned Cornet – two solid targets for the early out-ball. Finally, we have the makings of a Plan B which could make us less vulnerable to the press – the weakness in Martin’s style that every opponent knows about and exploits. Nothing emboldens a press more than predictability, but a good Plan B blunts the press because they fear being bypassed.

But Fraser and Cornet were unavailable on Saturday, so we don’t know yet whether Martin is willing to use Ramsdale’s special skill to give us the Plan B we desperately need.

I’m willing to wait and see if pragmatism can overpower Martin’s arrogance and obstinacy. His insistence on playing out from the back, to me, is a “keeper killer”. I can’t see ownership sitting idly by if he doesn’t use their 25 million asset properly, and his confidence starts to take a nosedive.

Definitely how I saw this signing too and I wonder if Ramsdale will get the opportunity to help shape the way we build up. His low driven drop kicks are absolutely a massive strength and something we should be leveraging.

[Whitey Grandad]

15 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

I’m sure you’ve gotten to your stage in life by being more respectful. 
 

Many shit goals are scored, many average goals are scored, some by possession some by sticking it in the mixer. The winning goal in the final was possession based. 

My apologies, I didn’t mean to be disrespectful.

That winning goal was a result of a defender switching off for a moment and Adam Armstrong skilfully finding himself a bit of space out wide. It was a well-worked goal from a nice passing movement but to describe it as a justification for possession-based football is overstating you case more than somewhat.

[saintant]

7 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

IMO Martin hit a fork in the road when we failed to sign Biljow, who was comfortable with his “play out from the back all the time” style.

We then spent 25 million on Ramsdale, for whom “playing out” is definitely not a strength. However, one of his real strong suits is the crisp out-ball to wide, pacy attackers. We also brought back Fraser and loaned Cornet – two solid targets for the early out-ball. Finally, we have the makings of a Plan B which could make us less vulnerable to the press – the weakness in Martin’s style that every opponent knows about and exploits. Nothing emboldens a press more than predictability, but a good Plan B blunts the press because they fear being bypassed.

But Fraser and Cornet were unavailable on Saturday, so we don’t know yet whether Martin is willing to use Ramsdale’s special skill to give us the Plan B we desperately need.

I’m willing to wait and see if pragmatism can overpower Martin’s arrogance and obstinacy. His insistence on playing out from the back, to me, is a “keeper killer”. I can’t see ownership sitting idly by if he doesn’t use their 25 million asset properly, and his confidence starts to take a nosedive.

The following quote made by RM might concern you - it does me.

'But we didn’t have anyone that big to play it up to, and unless you have someone who really specialises in that role, and the team buys into that story, then for me there’s more risk in doing that. We really believe in something, and our job is to make Plan A better. Because if you’ve got Plan A, and then the next plan, Plan B, is to do the complete opposite, then you don’t really believe in Plan A, do you?'

It's from coachesvoice.com

 

[Weston Super Saint]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

The following quote made by RM might concern you - it does me.

'But we didn’t have anyone that big to play it up to, and unless you have someone who really specialises in that role, and the team buys into that story, then for me there’s more risk in doing that. We really believe in something, and our job is to make Plan A better. Because if you’ve got Plan A, and then the next plan, Plan B, is to do the complete opposite, then you don’t really believe in Plan A, do you?'

It's from coachesvoice.com

 

Right here, right now, I don't believe in Plan A!

[saintant]

Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

Right here, right now, I don't believe in Plan A!

Well I'm afraid that's all there is so you'd better get used to it 🙂

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

Well I'm afraid that's all there is so you'd better get used to it 🙂

Sadly, I'm used to it. Don't believe in it, but certainly used to us doing the same thing week in, week out like nutters.

[gio1saints]

Was it just me or did I imagine Saints broke our all time unbeaten record playing a possession based football last season. We got pretty good, apparently, at it. 

So good in fact this club has never gone so unbeaten for so long no matter what league. 

SO…obviously, RM, listening carefully to the hindsight pundits on here should now ditch the style our players know and that many specifically joined for - and can actually play well - in favour of not-that something else with a n other manager anyone anyways will do as long as it’s not possession football - because we lost three in a row. 
 

Sounds like many of you think acclimatising to the EPL is as simple as downloading your latest phone update. Wait a few mins and you are good. 

IF his crime 3 matches in is being too cautious in selecting 3CB’s , yup a frankly nuts U formation v Forest and the horrible-to-me insistence on playing out from defence every time ( which I personally hate but ho hum apparently we do also score from this) then the sentence for this that many here are pronouncing is sack the guy three matches in? Him and team that got us promoted first time ? That gave us that day at Wembley? His and teams bank of credit with you - INGRATES- is three matches before you have turned on him quicker than a Camembert on a sunny day. Loyal supporters my arse. 
 

[Hopper]

1 minute ago, gio1saints said:

Was it just me or did I imagine Saints broke our all time unbeaten record playing a possession based football last season. We got pretty good, apparently, at it. 

So good in fact this club has never gone so unbeaten for so long no matter what league. 

SO…obviously, RM, listening carefully to the hindsight pundits on here should now ditch the style our players know and that many specifically joined for - and can actually play well - in favour of not-that something else with a n other manager anyone anyways will do as long as it’s not possession football - because we lost three in a row. 
 

Sounds like many of you think acclimatising to the EPL is as simple as downloading your latest phone update. Wait a few mins and you are good. 

IF his crime 3 matches in is being too cautious in selecting 3CB’s , yup a frankly nuts U formation v Forest and the horrible-to-me insistence on playing out from defence every time ( which I personally hate but ho hum apparently we do also score from this) then the sentence for this that many here are pronouncing is sack the guy three matches in? Him and team that got us promoted first time ? That gave us that day at Wembley? His and teams bank of credit with you - INGRATES- is three matches before you have turned on him quicker than a Camembert on a sunny day. Loyal supporters my arse. 
 

Was in the Championship mate. Doesn't count... 🙃

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Was it just me or did I imagine Saints broke our all time unbeaten record playing a possession based football last season. We got pretty good, apparently, at it. 

A run which helped the 2nd or 3rd best squad in the league achieve the fantastic finish of……4th. 

[qwertyell]

3 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

INGRATES

He's not going to fuck you.

And if he was, it'd be all half-arsed foreplay in the wrong areas before he finishes on himself and blames you for not understanding how amazing the experience was. For him.

[CanadaSaint]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

The following quote made by RM might concern you - it does me.

'But we didn’t have anyone that big to play it up to, and unless you have someone who really specialises in that role, and the team buys into that story, then for me there’s more risk in doing that. We really believe in something, and our job is to make Plan A better. Because if you’ve got Plan A, and then the next plan, Plan B, is to do the complete opposite, then you don’t really believe in Plan A, do you?'

It's from coachesvoice.com

 

Yep, that's very troubling on multiple levels. It suggests that he just won't accept that playing it long when we're being heavily pressed is infinitely preferable to surrendering possession in our own back third. It also suggests that the only target he can think of is a big guy up front - not a pacy attacker out wide, so he doesn't see the counter-attacking dimension.

But, most of all, it shows how deep-seated his arrogance is, and how unwilling to accept that everyone has rumbled his style. There seems to be no room in his head for the notion that a decent Plan B makes Plan A better, because it reduces the critical weakness of a predictable Plan A and creates a fast-break option (probably not in his lexicon).

Plan A and Plan B aren't mutually exclusive - unless Martin's "smartest guy in the room" mentality decides they are. But he's a bullshitter, because he was forced to change when we lost Bazunu, and that's what got us promoted. It wasn't losing Bazunu but the style change it forced on him. His arrogance won't let him admit it.

He's riding for a fall.

[Oldandtired]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

Was it just me or did I imagine Saints broke our all time unbeaten record playing a possession based football last season. We got pretty good, apparently, 

 

And then all the other managers, even in the championship did what they were paid to do and found out how to play against us and how easy it was.

And then we weren't unbeaten anymore. We got to the PL by winning a lottery.

If championship managers can suss us out we are going to be easy meat for the PL version and that means either the manager changing tactics or us changing manager.

Edited September 2 by Oldandtired

[Dark Munster]

54 minutes ago, saintant said:

The following quote made by RM might concern you - it does me.

'But we didn’t have anyone that big to play it up to, and unless you have someone who really specialises in that role, and the team buys into that story, then for me there’s more risk in doing that. We really believe in something, and our job is to make Plan A better. Because if you’ve got Plan A, and then the next plan, Plan B, is to do the complete opposite, then you don’t really believe in Plan A, do you?'

It's from coachesvoice.com

 

How tall is Tall Paul?

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

How tall is Tall Paul?

This quote was before his time with us but I don't believe he's changed his principles.

[Harry_SFC]

1 hour ago, CanadaSaint said:

Yep, that's very troubling on multiple levels. It suggests that he just won't accept that playing it long when we're being heavily pressed is infinitely preferable to surrendering possession in our own back third. It also suggests that the only target he can think of is a big guy up front - not a pacy attacker out wide, so he doesn't see the counter-attacking dimension.

But, most of all, it shows how deep-seated his arrogance is, and how unwilling to accept that everyone has rumbled his style. There seems to be no room in his head for the notion that a decent Plan B makes Plan A better, because it reduces the critical weakness of a predictable Plan A and creates a fast-break option (probably not in his lexicon).

Plan A and Plan B aren't mutually exclusive - unless Martin's "smartest guy in the room" mentality decides they are. But he's a bullshitter, because he was forced to change when we lost Bazunu, and that's what got us promoted. It wasn't losing Bazunu but the style change it forced on him. His arrogance won't let him admit it.

He's riding for a fall.

Yep being direct doesn't mean you have to have a huge guy upfront. Ok the attackers need to be relatively decent at hold up play - Brentford are a pretty direct side but they play it into attacking areas along the ground and get runners off the attacker with the ball. 

[verlaine1979]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

Was it just me or did I imagine Saints broke our all time unbeaten record playing a possession based football last season. We got pretty good, apparently, at it. 

So good in fact this club has never gone so unbeaten for so long no matter what league.
 

Didn't we end this record-breaking unbeaten run further behind the team that actually won the league than when we started it?

[gio1saints]

2 hours ago, qwertyell said:

He's not going to fuck you.

And if he was, it'd be all half-arsed foreplay in the wrong areas before he finishes on himself and blames you for not understanding how amazing the experience was. For him.

You never been a fan of Russell Martin I take it. Getting us promoted must have fucked you right off. 

 

 

[gio1saints]

1 hour ago, verlaine1979 said:

Didn't we end this record-breaking unbeaten run further behind the team that actually won the league than when we started it?

A record breaking run is a record breaking run. We ought to be a little less scornful a little bit more respectful. 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

2 hours ago, CanadaSaint said:

Plan A and Plan B aren't mutually exclusive

You're right. Mix it up. Not being as tactically astute as a lot of people, I still think there's a lot of common sense behind the saying that they won't score if the ball is in their half. And when you have a good distributor like Ramsdale who can see a quick break, sometimes play the long ball out. 

RM will make changes. He might be arrogant, he might want to stick to his principles but he's not stupid. He knows he has to adapt. Expect to see Fernandes start, Dibling and Big Les play a big part and Cornet and Archer also heavily involved.

And it was noticeable that even at his age, how much of an impact Lallana had when he came on at Brentford.