Russell Martin

[Saint Billy]

7 minutes ago, Hopper said:

I’ve openly asked for suggestions on who should replace him and how we should play but it’s eerily quiet. Could it be some just like to moan and not think critically? 🤔 

Simple, stop trying to emulate Man City as we are not on the same planet, play your best players and not those who are underperforming but are being selected because they earned credit last season. Play a style that your players are capable of playing. If the manager can't do this then search world wide for a manager that can .

[CB Fry]

7 minutes ago, Hopper said:

No of course you can. But just saying we need to play with more tempo and disregard the work that’s been done and the success found last season after 3 games without any construction is just moaning isn’t it.

Fourth and a play off win is still a fairly low level of success, especially with our goals against column. We did not streak away with the Championship title.

There are countless managers who have got promoted from the Championship, I think the hype around Russell Martin's successes a little out of hand, especially in the head of the man himself.

In the same way the Adam Armstrong is never going to be a Premier League level striker, it's entirely possible that Russell Martin has a natural level that is below the Premier League.

Edited September 1 by CB Fry

[Hopper]

5 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Two wrongs don’t make a right. We neither maintain possession enough to stop errors at the back, nor do we effectively press as a team high up the pitch to stifle the opposition building. Our possession is meaningless if it results in defeat after defeat and currently it’s difficult to see beyond that when every single move forward has to drill through 11 defenders.

I don’t disagree at all but I also don’t recall us creating this much in our last PL outing.

 

despite the scoreline we weren’t blown away by Brentford. We were neck and neck in a lot of key areas but we were undone by individual errors and poor finishing. On another day this match could have finished very differently.

Edited September 1 by Hopper

[saintant]

Just now, Hopper said:

No of course you can. But just saying we need to play with more tempo and disregard the work that’s been done and the success found last season after 3 games without any construction is just moaning isn’t it.

Ok, I'd play a double pivot of Downes and Big Les with Fernandes in front of them and a 433 system.  Up front I'd play Cornet and Dibbling either side of Archer. Back four KWP Sagawara Bednarek and THB (I know he's looked poor but I think he is better in a back 4 rather than 3 at the back with wing backs). I'd encourage us to play from the back only when reasonably safe to do so and not be afraid to hit longer balls over opposition press.  I'd ask the midfield to play on the half turn and transition the ball far more quickly than we do. I'd give Adam Lallana as much playing time as he can manage off the bench. I'd ask the front 3 to press the opposition hard when they are playing out. May not all work or be sensible but just some of my own ideas as you asked for.

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

And that's where we'll have to disagree - if you don't think we're favourites to go down I think you're a bit mad - but then I also thought we were way behind Leeds and Leicester last season with regards quality of squad (which we were). 

I didn’t say I thought we were not favourites to go down - on the contrary. You seem to have a habit of trying to attributes comments to others to serve your own argument. Why is that - are you a bit mad? 🤣 

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, Hopper said:

No of course you can. But just saying we need to play with more tempo and disregard the work that’s been done and the success found last season after 3 games without any construction is just moaning isn’t it.

You’re doing it too. Success last season does not equate to success in this. It was a great day at Wembley but let’s not get carried away. It was a very close run thing.

[Wade Garrett]

11 minutes ago, Hopper said:

I’ve openly asked for suggestions on who should replace him and how we should play but it’s eerily quiet. Could it be some just like to moan and not think critically? 🤔 

You’re just trying to bait the hook for the first person to say Potter.

It’s not my job to find a new manager.  But there are plenty out there that lose Martin and Potter is included in that.

It is fanciful to think that if we stick to what we’re doing it will eventually come good.  We’re playing against teams week in and week out who will continue to exploit us.

Can we also start Archer, Fernandes, Dibling and Les.  Abandon the 3 centre-backs and the madness of the extremely limited Stephens stepping up into midfield.  Go 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1.  Drop Stephens, Smallbone, Armstrong and Aribo (I do like Aribo though).

[Badger]

1 minute ago, Hopper said:

I don’t disagree at all but I also don’t recall us creating this much in our last PL outing.

 

despite the scoreline we weren’t blown away by Brentford. We were neck and neck in a lock of key areas but we were undone by individual errors and poor finishing. On another day this match could have finished very differently.

Please spare us that one.

On another day at Newcastle we wouldn’t have gifted them a goal. On another day at Brentford….

Isn’t there a theme developing here ? 

[Harry_SFC]

4 minutes ago, saintant said:

Ok, I'd play a double pivot of Downes and Big Les with Fernandes in front of them and a 433 system.  Up front I'd play Cornet and Dibbling either side of Archer. Back four KWP Sagawara Bednarek and THB (I know he's looked poor but I think he is better in a back 4 rather than 3 at the back with wing backs). I'd encourage us to play from the back only when reasonably safe to do so and not be afraid to hit longer balls over opposition press.  I'd ask the midfield to play on the half turn and transition the ball far more quickly than we do. I'd give Adam Lallana as much playing time as he can manage off the bench. I'd ask the front 3 to press the opposition hard when they are playing out. May not all work or be sensible but just some of my own ideas as you asked for.

Cornet and Archer are the ideal players to play in behind and stretch the opposition. Won't happen with RM in charge. Look at Brentford yesterday. They have 3 quick players up top and get the ball to them as quickly as possible with runners supporting them from midfield to pick up any loose balls. 

Edited September 1 by Harry_SFC

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, Hopper said:

I don’t disagree at all but I also don’t recall us creating this much in our last PL outing.

 

despite the scoreline we weren’t blown away by Brentford. We were neck and neck in a lot of key areas but we were undone by individual errors and poor finishing. On another day this match could have finished very differently.

Blown away? It was a hammering. And another reason why you should never look at the stats. That way madness lies.

[badgerx16]

We have lost 6 of our last 7 league games.

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 minutes ago, Hopper said:

I don’t disagree at all but I also don’t recall us creating this much in our last PL outing.

 

despite the scoreline we weren’t blown away by Brentford. We were neck and neck in a lock of key areas but we were undone by individual errors and poor finishing. On another day this match could have finished very differently.

What does ‘blown away’ actually mean? We were convincingly beaten by an average team that have been coached well to deploy tactics that the Manager KNEW would beat us despite minimal possession. We managed a consolation goal when the players and system that should have started the game were deployed. This is going to happen every game unless RM and his staff step up.

[Hopper]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

Ok, I'd play a double pivot of Downes and Big Les with Fernandes in front of them and a 433 system.  Up front I'd play Cornet and Dibbling either side of Archer. Back four KWP Sagawara Bednarek and THB (I know he's looked poor but I think he is better in a back 4 rather than 3 at the back with wing backs). I'd encourage us to play from the back only when reasonably safe to do so and not be afraid to hit longer balls over opposition press.  I'd ask the midfield to play on the half turn and transition the ball far more quickly than we do. I'd give Adam Lallana as much playing time as he can manage off the bench. I'd ask the front 3 to press the opposition hard when they are playing out. May not all work or be sensible but just some of my own ideas as you asked for.

I agree with a great deal of this. I’m not some unrelenting Martin apologist. I think we do need to be more pragmatic, I do also think his stubbornness can be a detriment.

At our best last season we did break the lines well, played with tempo and I think that is how he probably wants than to play. I think the performance against Swansea in the first 60 minutes is the ‘perfect’ Martin performance. If we played like that each week I think we would all be chuffed.

As I mentioned in my first reply I hope that the penny has dropped for a few things based on that last match and we see an improved setup when we are back from the international break.

I just get frustrated at those throwing their hand up and wanting him out after 3 games. I hope we adapt as we did when needed last season and build some momentum.

[egg]

10 minutes ago, Hopper said:

I don’t disagree at all but I also don’t recall us creating this much in our last PL outing.

 

despite the scoreline we weren’t blown away by Brentford. We were neck and neck in a lot of key areas but we were undone by individual errors and poor finishing. On another day this match could have finished very differently.

The errors are coming because players are being asked to do what they shouldn't be asked to do, and frankly, cannot do. Example, the much maligned Stephens can't be blamed for being unable to take the ball on the half turn in midfield and instead play it backwards, leading to a THB error, and a goal. Neither player should have that expectation on them - they're defenders. Use tactics that suit the players and you get less mistakes like that, and in less dangerous errors. 

Stats are BS when you lose every week. 

Edited September 1 by egg

[maysie]

I don’t think the players are good enough to play pure Russ ball like the manager does. However, he showed a willingness to tweak things last season whilst not a wholesale abandonment of the style and I think despite what he says he will do that again, so I’m not calling for his head quite yet.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, Hopper said:

At our best last season we did break the lines well, played with tempo and I think that is how he probably wants than to play. I think the performance against Swansea in the first 60 minutes is the ‘perfect’ Martin performance. If we played like that each week I think we would all be chuffed.

Last season again. We aren't ever going to play like that again, unless we are back in the Championship playing absolute shite like Swansea every other week. 

[trousers]

11 minutes ago, Hopper said:

we were undone by individual errors and poor finishing. On another day this match could have finished very differently.

The thing is, the way we play, and with the calibre of players we have, is more often than not going to result in  "individual errors", ergo these "on another day" scenarios, whilst they will happen from time to time, are likely to be relatively rare. That's simple logic and probability. 

Edited September 1 by trousers

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

The thing is, the way we play, and with the calibre of players we have, is more often than not going to result in  "individual errors" ergo these "on another day" scenarios, whilst they will happen from time to time, are likely to be relatively rare. That's simple logic and probability. 

Yep, if the conditions are right, the inevitable happens!

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

The thing is, the way we play, and with the calibre of players we have, is more often than not going to result in  "individual errors" ergo these "on another day" scenarios, whilst they will happen from time to time, are likely to be relatively rare. That's simple logic and probability. 

Indeed if you spend all your time tempting fate eventually it’s going to bite you in the arse.

[Toussaint]

28 minutes ago, Hopper said:

I’ve openly asked for suggestions on who should replace him and how we should play but it’s eerily quiet. Could it be some just like to moan and not think critically? 🤔 

That really depends on how far in the shit we are when he is sacked. The longer we continue in this form the greater the need for a Dyche or Moyes. This is assuming the aim is to do our best to stay in the league, which is surely what SR are aiming for given the spending spree they have been on. 
 

I enjoyed last season, mainly because it was ultimately a success. There is absolutely no guarantee that it will be the same next time round. 

[AlexLaw76]

Quit simple…unless there are fundamental changes, we will get relegated without any issue. The fannying around at the back will continue to kill us, we have seen it it in what is a relatively soft start to the league.

But the manager keeps saying that he will live and die by it and it is “the narrative”.

hopefully his ego will deflate over the next few day otherwise it will cost him his job.

[Raging Bull]

32 minutes ago, egg said:

I don't think people need to suggest names to have an opinion that a different coach could get more out of these players.

Indeed. These players are more than good enough to stay in this league. 

The fact we look so weak comes down to the manager. 

I was a fan of RM but he simply cannot stick to his guns after this start. There’s not a cat in hell’s chance DS will risk his investment again. 

I would suggest he’s dangerously close to living on borrowed time, if he isn’t already. 

And for what it’s worth, I honestly think Cameron Archer will be a great striker, he just needs the right players around him  

I also reckon the board will already have some candidates lined up when the axe falls in the coming weeks 

Edited September 1 by Raging Bull

[Galway saint]

11 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

We have lost 6 of our last 7 league games.

including the two friendlies against the spanish sides we have scored 2 goals in five games 

to my mind the attack is as big an issue as the mistakes at the back and perhaps it’s an even bigger issue. we have signed championship players up front and our biggest hope is an 18 year old kid.

martin’s sides will always concede goals but once they stop scoring goals then they are doomed.

at the moment we look poor in both penalty areas 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Raging Bull said:

Indeed. These players are more than good enough to stay in this league. 

The fact we look so weak comes down to the manager. 

I was a fan of RM but he simply cannot stick to his guns after this start. There’s not a cat in hell’s chance DS will risk his investment again. 

I would suggest he’s dangerously close to living on borrowed time, if he isn’t already. 

And for what it’s worth, I honestly think Cameron Archer will be a great striker, he just needs the right players around him  

Agree with all of that. From what I heard last season, RM was lucky to go into this season as manager despite us going up. He doesn't have long imo. 

Archer has got something about him. Good touch, movement and finishing. He'll be good for us and is a very sound investment. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Saying this season is a gift is about as tinpot and noddy as you can get. We aren't in the Premier League for the first time in our history. 

Spot on, too many of our nods are like star struck teenagers, grateful for one glimpse of the promised land. My arse. We’ve been in the top flight most of the past 60 years, we’re not Luton, or Swindon or even fucking Boscombe. We’re an established top flight club that has slipped out of the league occasionally. If Lego doesn’t put his ego aside and start using tactics and systems suited to the players we have, he needs to fuck off for someone who will. We’ve had 3 pretty easy games (once Newcastle were down to 10) so to come away with 0 points is bad enough, but to continue playing in the way that gave us 0 points, is fucking criminal. 
 

[Huffton]

9 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Quit simple…unless there are fundamental changes, we will get relegated without any issue. The fannying around at the back will continue to kill us, we have seen it it in what is a relatively soft start to the league.

But the manager keeps saying that he will live and die by it and it is “the narrative”.

hopefully his ego will deflate over the next few day otherwise it will cost him his job.

My feeling, and hope, is that the person who signs the cheques for all the players we've bought this window will deflate his ego for him. 

I like RM and I am against this constant chopping and changing of managers, however if he doesn't change things very soon then axe needs to swing as on this trajectory we're going back down with less points than Derby managed...

[Lee On Solent Saint]

35 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Spot on, too many of our nods are like star struck teenagers, grateful for one glimpse of the promised land. My arse. We’ve been in the top flight most of the past 60 years, we’re not Luton, or Swindon or even fucking Boscombe. We’re an established top flight club that has slipped out of the league occasionally. If Lego doesn’t put his ego aside and start using tactics and systems suited to the players we have, he needs to fuck off for someone who will. We’ve had 3 pretty easy games (once Newcastle were down to 10) so to come away with 0 points is bad enough, but to continue playing in the way that gave us 0 points, is fucking criminal. 
 

We are at the elite end of pro sport. Buying into projects and all that shite that Martin speaks is great, as long as it works. If he's not prepared to compromise his footballing ideals for the sake of his own job, and ultimately our Premier League place, then he needs to take his project and let it work in the lower leagues. If this plays out as many of us think it will, and he ends up taking us down, does he ever think he'll get another chance to be a Premier League manager again? People will point to Kompany and the way he went with Burnley, but there is a world of difference between the two in what they have achieved in the game. And yes, I know that being a successful player does not equate to manager success, but having a name like Kompany will help him secure other decent jobs if it goes tits up in Munich. 

[spyinthesky]

I wonder if there is a parallel here with Nigel Adkins?

He did a sterling job taking up two divisions to the Prem and we all enjoyed the process.

Many of us were disappointed when Cortese binned him for a relatively unknown Argentinian.

However that proved a master stroke and the team's performances improved enough to save us from an immediate relegation.

I have nothing against Russell Martin personally. I think he comes across well.

However I worry that he does not have the mindset to realise that his approach to the game needs some flexibility otherwise we are definitely doomed.

 

[beatlesaint]

1 hour ago, Hopper said:

Let me ask this, those who are so discontent. How are you solving the issue? Who are you bringing in? How are they set up to play? Genuinely curious what you have in mind.

Certainly, im playing - 

Ramsdale

Suga - THB or ABK - JB - KWP

Lesley - Downes

Fernandes - Dibling - Cornet

Archer

 

Obviously ABK depends heavily on attitiude and still being here, if he knuckles down and wants to play he's better than we have. Big IF's admittedly.

I'm having Les and Flynn anchoring the midfield with Downes the more likely to move forward when we attack and drop back in when we havent got the ball, this acts as a protection for the 2 x centre backs cos 3 clearly doesnt help us attack wise.

I'm not changing the way they play, thats not gonna happen but I would be telling them to forget the pretty little triangles anywhere near the penalty area cos lose it and we are fucked as has been shown already. Less damage likely if you lose it further away from the goal.

I'm moving the ball a hell of a lot quicker than we are at present, hence the midfield attacking three all who have either pace or quick feet and a football brain. Im bringing Lallana on as first change there if he's fit and one of them isnt working out during a game.

Im expecting Archer to make runs after the midfeild attacking three look to pass the ball through for him to run on, they will then be in the supporting role that Smallbone and Aribo are just not capable of. 

 

It might not work, but it cant be any worse than the last two league matches.

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

Many of us were disappointed when Cortese binned him for a relatively unknown Argentinian.

However that proved a master stroke and the team's performances improved enough to save us from an immediate relegation.

We weren’t going down under Nigel, we’d improved already. 
 

 

[CB Fry]

29 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

I wonder if there is a parallel here with Nigel Adkins?

He did a sterling job taking up two divisions to the Prem and we all enjoyed the process.

Many of us were disappointed when Cortese binned him for a relatively unknown Argentinian.

However that proved a master stroke and the team's performances improved enough to save us from an immediate relegation.

I have nothing against Russell Martin personally. I think he comes across well.

However I worry that he does not have the mindset to realise that his approach to the game needs some flexibility otherwise we are definitely doomed.

 

Pochettino didn't "save us from immediate relegation", he steered us into mid table and did a terrific job in the following season.

But it's ridiculous to suggest we were heading for definite relegation under Adkins.

[Fabrice29]

20 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Pochettino didn't "save us from immediate relegation", he steered us into mid table and did a terrific job in the following season.

But it's ridiculous to suggest we were heading for definite relegation under Adkins.

Looking at the results under Adkins you can see us shipping goals for fun right from the start and it wasn't until November that we started to get a grip of things and get consistent results. Didn't really have an issue scoring goals which might be a difference but I suspect having some players who went on to represent England in our attack helped with that. Almost as if a bit of patience is required. 

[The Kraken]

18 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Pochettino didn't "save us from immediate relegation", he steered us into mid table and did a terrific job in the following season.

But it's ridiculous to suggest we were heading for definite relegation under Adkins.

This keeps coming up, it’s a ludicrous suggestion. Adkins got off to a horrendous start but had more than turned it around before he got fired. We were in 15th place in the table at the time he was sacked. Adkins managed us for 22 league games that season, after eleven of those we had 5 points are were one place off the bottom. The next 11 games saw 4 wins and 5 draws, and the team was really playing some good stuff (we had very entertaining draws against Arsenal and Chelsea where we more than gave them a game).

The parallels between Martin and Adkins start and finish at the point that they’ve both had shocking starts to the Premier League with us. If Martin can turn it round like Adkins did then he’ll likely save his job.

[Lord Duckhunter]

32 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

but I suspect having some players who went on to represent England in our attack helped with that. Almost as if a bit of patience is required. 

I’m patiently waiting for Adam Armstrong to play for England……

[Gloucester Saint]

35 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

This keeps coming up, it’s a ludicrous suggestion. Adkins got off to a horrendous start but had more than turned it around before he got fired. We were in 15th place in the table at the time he was sacked. Adkins managed us for 22 league games that season, after eleven of those we had 5 points are were one place off the bottom. The next 11 games saw 4 wins and 5 draws, and the team was really playing some good stuff (we had very entertaining draws against Arsenal and Chelsea where we more than gave them a game).

The parallels between Martin and Adkins start and finish at the point that they’ve both had shocking starts to the Premier League with us. If Martin can turn it round like Adkins did then he’ll likely save his job.

Nigel also had a horrendous fixture list at the start. Granted, Wigan home was crap but City away, Arsenal away, Fergie’s Man U home etc. Arsenal away was awful but City away was a tremendous display and Man U home we were 2-1 up after 89 minutes. Rather different to this time so far. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Ruben Selles won 2 of his first 3 games in charge, and got 8 points from his first 6, so it’s not too outlandish  to think 0 points so far is under performing. Particularly considering the fixtures. 

[whelk]

Wonder if he is lsiten8ng to Jamie O’hara on SSN?

[hypochondriac]

4 hours ago, Hopper said:

Because the players that have joined this season know the score. Ramsdale included. The last time we were relegated the squad was by and large a bunch of mercenaries. This is a team who have bought into the project. I think our retention would be much higher.

You're deluded. 

[Raging Bull]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

Wonder if he is lsiten8ng to Jamie O’hara on SSN?

Indeed. I don’t like agreeing with o’hara but he’s spot on. 

Even if he is as articulate as the clap

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

This keeps coming up, it’s a ludicrous suggestion. Adkins got off to a horrendous start but had more than turned it around before he got fired. We were in 15th place in the table at the time he was sacked. Adkins managed us for 22 league games that season, after eleven of those we had 5 points are were one place off the bottom. The next 11 games saw 4 wins and 5 draws, and the team was really playing some good stuff (we had very entertaining draws against Arsenal and Chelsea where we more than gave them a game).

The parallels between Martin and Adkins start and finish at the point that they’ve both had shocking starts to the Premier League with us. If Martin can turn it round like Adkins did then he’ll likely save his job.

 

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

Pochettino didn't "save us from immediate relegation", he steered us into mid table and did a terrific job in the following season.

But it's ridiculous to suggest we were heading for definite relegation under Adkins.

Adkins was sacked when were 15th, Pochetino came in and guided us to, um, 14th. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

From Martin's post-match interview:

It is 5 goals conceded: 3 from errors and 2 from set pieces.

We do end up opening up to try and get back into it. However, we end up being more open because the initial system simply isn't doing enough to get back into a game on its own merits.

If we made a daft error, we should be more than capable of generating chances to level it. That we can't, indicates that the set up isn't working, across a game. When we were starting to get into the game, we conceded a second. That’s probably the bit where it could have turned around.

Conceding a second, under similar circumstances, indicates that there's more going on than just silly errors. Martin is right when saying there's no reason to have so many, so close. Why are they so close? Yes, the intentions are good. Yes, they are desperate to help each other. Martin seems surprised that the ball ended up back there.

But it's the system that puts them there. And it has worked under his direction. What we're seeing now, is it trying to work with 5 at the back, switched full backs not offering the same passing angles, a 'keeper who isn't as good a passer, and an absent midfield offering no transition or passing angles.

Any number of flags there, before this is going to click again. If even some of those are rectified, the players won’t be bunched up, and under tension to play it across or back.

Our defence gets pushed into making lots of passes. Not to control the play, but to get it out of our third. Martin can look at the individual errors. But those are just the ones we got caught in. There are a lot of other moments, where we're an error away. Particularly at the higher pressing tempo our opponents have.  Aribo in a 1 on 1 in the game comes to mind.

With 5 at the back, we shouldn’t be getting caught out. Martins right in that, by playing 5 at the back, we do compromise elsewhere.

Martin said we should have scored 2 or 3 ourselves. We did create a few chances, although not at the same level as our opponents.

A lot is put on AA for missing it. However, all through the league top strikers are missing chances. They are getting more opportunities to get more chances than we are generating.

It's an ongoing thing with RussBall. We need move opponents about and transition at a quick tempo, preferably with numbers. When it's not working, we allow them all to drop back into a defensive shape, and then recycle it. Other teams are content to lose some control, balancing that risk with creating clear space for attack.

We're relying on a few decent moments to get our goals. Martin can say AA's chance needs to go in. But his side of things have to have a long look at the chances we're generating and the shape of both teams, when they are being created.

What he does mention is that we conceded a second when we were finally getting a glimpse of some momentum. In spite of all of the above. Our speed, movement and purpose just wasn’t sufficient to get anything from that, before the risks above cost us again.

Martin pre-empted a lot of the questions. There will be personnel changes.

It’s disappointing that we seem to be having to go back to relearn a lot of the things from last season. Everyone would be hoping to take those lessons and push on. Arguably, a number things last season were never near the levels Martin was looking for either, resulting in that late change. So, we’re a bit caught out looking to meld two things together.

Elsewhere, there are teams losing because they haven’t the possession or control of games. Our whole approach is to have that, and then create from that foundation.

Where we seem to struggle is getting it through teams at pace. And to do so regularly, so that our strikers aren’t expected to finish off a high number of their chances, regardless of the xG of each.  We’re not playing to create the space to pass it through. And with 5 at the back, we’re just prone to making an error as the players see limited options. We’ve plenty of options, so we can only look for improvements.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

8 minutes ago, Raging Bull said:

Indeed. I don’t like agreeing with o’hara but he’s spot on. 

Even if he is as articulate as the clap

What's he saying?

[Raging Bull]

15 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

What's he saying?

To paraphrase…

”they’re shit, gonna get pumped every week and most teams are gonna go in dry with a smile on their faces

Theres no need to play the way we do and don’t have the quality of players to do it. You don’t see Real Madrid or city doing this at all costs just because of a stubborn philosophy” 

Edited September 1 by Raging Bull

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

This keeps coming up, it’s a ludicrous suggestion. Adkins got off to a horrendous start but had more than turned it around before he got fired. We were in 15th place in the table at the time he was sacked. Adkins managed us for 22 league games that season, after eleven of those we had 5 points are were one place off the bottom. The next 11 games saw 4 wins and 5 draws, and the team was really playing some good stuff (we had very entertaining draws against Arsenal and Chelsea where we more than gave them a game).

The parallels between Martin and Adkins start and finish at the point that they’ve both had shocking starts to the Premier League with us. If Martin can turn it round like Adkins did then he’ll likely save his job.

This. If anything, I remember being really frustrating at Adkins for not pressing the advantage against a few opponents, resulting in us conceding. You can never be sure we wouldn't have been dragged back into it, but there were good signs that we would be okay.

SR

3 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

You’re just trying to bait the hook for the first person to say Potter.

Someone mentioned Potter in the match thread yesterday. 🙂 

3 hours ago, egg said:

Agree with all of that. From what I heard last season, RM was lucky to go into this season as manager despite us going up. He doesn't have long imo.

That's interesting. I had gone down the path where the club were giving him plenty of time.

Mind you, the financial impact of our last relegation was massive. And SR have already chopped RalphBall v1.0 and 2.0, NatBall, and PulloverBall. So, they can't be that beholden to a style of play (makes you wonder if Dragan has mentioned that the style of implementing the "project" keeps going through so many changes, from the smarter than smart SR).

[Mr X]

Martin has had nearly 100m in transfers and hasn't got in a proven striker just crazy!

He's made it clear he lives by the sword and dies by the sword and hasn't changed anything for 5 years! So there's no way we are going to see any different tactics any time soon!   We are stuck with a manger who's taking us straight back to the championship.... Do we stick with him in the championship? 

[Ralph Fastenbüttl]

16 hours ago, saintant said:

The owners can back him all they like but if the majority of the fanbase turn on him and he loses the dressing room he's toast.

This is true. I'm convinced the owners would have given Nathan Jones a lot longer to continue his reign of mental terror were it not for the fanbase which saw through it long before they did - and let it be known.

However, I think we're quite some way from that point with RM. For starters, I think the relatively small sample of board users here is not (yet) representative of the larger fan base, who in general think Martin has with promotion shown enough to at the least enjoy a proper chance at cracking the PL. After a string of managers whose philosophies were either unidentifiable or indistinct, a manager with an actual discernable plan is appreciated.

And it must be said, the anti-RM sentiment on here is pretty insane. We've got folks who hate RM because he didn't get us promoted "well enough" (one user recently cited the fact that we lost some games last season as evidence of RM's inadequacies), we had lots of folks who were calling for his sacking after ONE GAME! In fact, the calls began the moment we went a goal down to Newcastle. We've got users predicting that we'll not get a single win all season and even that we'll amass zero points in the League. It really is quite insane.

The other thing going for him is that I really do believe that he has the squad by his side. We've all seen how loyal he is with his pack; following promotion his principle driving force was keeping the 'gang' together, with folks such as AA and AM being given new contracts when really we all know they're not PL quality. The new contract for AM, in particular, was bizarre decision - we've been waiting to get him off the books for ages.

Regardless, check out this report from The Athletic on the signing of Ramsdale:

Arsenal’s goalkeeper Aaron Ramsdale had gone to [the Play-Off Final at] Wembley to cheer on winger David Brooks, who was on loan to Southampton from Bournemouth. Brooks is one of Ramsdale’s closest friends, and it is a tradition among their group to go to an end-of-season game in fancy dress. Ramsdale chose to go as Hagrid from Harry Potter.

Those at the party, which took place at the Hilton London Wembley, told The Athletic that Ramsdale was the life and soul of the evening, revelling in the celebration, despite having experienced a personally disappointing season after losing his place in the Arsenal starting XI to David Raya.

The affection Southampton’s players and staff had for Ramsdale flourished during that party and it was followed by a summer transfer window in which the club tried to woo him.

The England international arrived at Staplewood, Southampton’s training ground, over the moon. He used to live on the south coast when he played for Bournemouth between 2017-20 and had an enjoyable time in the area. He is thrilled with the move and is desperate to get going, especially after fearing at one stage that Arsenal’s initial demands might price him out of a move.

Martin, the Southampton manager who is known for being able to woo new signings, received a glowing reference from Brooks, who Ramsdale spoke to before the move. And Martin played a key role in convincing the 26-year-old to join the club, speaking to him several times throughout the summer.

Despite late interest from another Premier League club, Ramsdale had already decided that he wanted to move to the south coast and play for a manager he likes and who worked hard to get him.

Ramsdale has already been relegated twice from the Premier League before — at Bournemouth and Sheffield United — and is not daunted by the prospect of a relegation scrap at Southampton if it comes to it. However, Ramsdale believes Southampton can survive under Martin and he is ready for whatever challenges may come.

RM's problem won't be if we carry on losing for the next month or two - it will be if we keep losing in the same way.

Having a football philosophy is very good and all, but a manager's main job is getting the best out the players at his disposal. If your system isn't suited to those players, then of course one must eventually concede that the system is not fit for purpose.

We've all seen how wedded RM is to his ideals. But if things don't change he's going to need to adapt because it will not take many more losses where we've handed the ball to the opposition in front of our own goal before the wider fan base finally does turn on RM. And as we saw with Mad Nate, once we get to that point, the club can shift from real and genuine support of the manager to turfing him out remarkably quickly.

With all they've invested this summer, SR are not going to sit by and watch us quietly descend into relegation without taking action. But to write RM off at this stage the very definition of bed wetting!

[Whitey Grandad]

31 minutes ago, Raging Bull said:

To paraphrase…

”they’re shit, gonna get pumped every week and most teams are gonna go in dry with a smile on their faces

Theres no need to play the way we do and don’t have the quality of players to do it. You don’t see Real Madrid or city doing this at all costs just because of a stubborn philosophy” 

What’s his username on here? 😉

[Long Shot]

I don’t think any reasonable fan is calling for RM’s head right now but something has got to give because already, we’ve got into a routine of giving goals away through an inability to avoid giving the ball away, while complying with the manager’s instructions.  Something has to give and if it’s not Martin’s position then he must develop a more flexible attitude. 

[Mr X]

12 minutes ago, Long Shot said:

I don’t think any reasonable fan is calling for RM’s head right now but something has got to give because already, we’ve got into a routine of giving goals away through an inability to avoid giving the ball away, while complying with the manager’s instructions.  Something has to give and if it’s not Martin’s position then he must develop a more flexible attitude. 

Herein lies the problem he won't and he's made that clear 

[Disco Stu]

We'll know by the end of this month if he's up to it.

Manchester United is a free hit although I'll still be incensed if we concede in a similar manner of faffing around at the back.

Everton in the cup holds little importance in comparison to our next games so he better not be starting the likes of Ugochukwu, Fernandes, Dibling and Archer again.

Ipswich at home already feels like a must win. If we lose that, we'll be in serious trouble.

Bournemouth away. By no means an easy fixture and Bournemouth will likely be looking for their first home win of the season but we must at least look competitive here.

 

We need to see a willingness from Russell to be pragmatic. Is he a problem solver that can identify faults and rectify them or will he continue to be dogged to his flawed philosophy? If we end the month on 0 points, I'll be Russell out.