Russell Martin

[Hopper]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Are you seriously suggesting Ramsdale would stay if we got relegated? 

Yeah I am. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

100% correct. People who were wrong last year are desperately trying to be right this time. Haters going to hate. Bed wetters going to bed wet. 

And those wearing red and white tinted glasses are going to continue looking through them.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, Hopper said:

Yeah I am. 

Ok then. 

[Whitey Grandad]

17 minutes ago, Hopper said:

Yesterday was a good example of why we need to stay the course. We were on the wrong end of the result because of 2 individual errors. 

Brentford and Thomas Frank are the blueprint. They play in their way and they stuck by the manager who has developed his team over a number of seasons to suit the way he wants to play.

Reading through X this morning I was pleasantly surprised at the optimism I saw. I think many of us agree that we’d rather fight and try to play and fail. Than resort to Dyche ball (Which is also spectacularly failing right now)

In some regards yesterday was a blessing. It’s reinforced that MF, TB, AL and CA are a cut above JA, WS & AA. It also showed that the 5 at the back experiment isn’t working. Russ for all his stubbornness does have the humility to admit when he’s got it wrong and to his credit made the right changes early in the match… a penny drop moment?

The individual errors will stop or the players will get dropped. Outside of those we have looked OK defensively and whilst people say stats can deceive which is obviously true to a degree I do believe that possession. Based play is helping to mitigate the number of chances teams are having against us. Our total shots and on target stats were not bad yesterday but we were undone by individual sloppiness and not being clinical enough. If Arma burries that chance before half time it’s a totally different game. I see this season as a gift and a free hit. I’m fully behind Russ and his team and I think it will come good. If it doesn’t we’re in a very good spot next season rather than the turmoil of our last relegation.

Quite the contrary. Possession based play is where most of the chances against us originate.

It requires absolute, continuous concentration from our defenders and eventually they crack under the pressure that they have to endure. The opposition however have a much more relaxing time.

[Fabrice29]

8 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Being told what to say in Media representation is one thing.  You have no idea how they are feeling behind closed doors 

Well on basis that a) they’ve been successful under this manager b) some have signed again to work for him after being here last year and c) ones who weren’t here last year clearly had other options but chose to come here (one specifically because of a review of someone here last year) I’m going to be slightly presumptuous and say they are feeling quite happy to be here and with the way they are asked to play.

[Fabrice29]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

And those wearing red and white tinted glasses are going to continue looking through them.

1 season, 1 promotion. Glasses are working, you should get some, it’s better.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

Well on basis that a) they’ve been successful under this manager b) some have signed again to work for him after being here last year and c) ones who weren’t here last year clearly had other options but chose to come here (one specifically because of a review of someone here last year) I’m going to be slightly presumptuous and say they are feeling quite happy to be here and with the way they are asked to play.

That’s very presumptuous. Professionals are only interested in one thing.

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

1 season, 1 promotion. Glasses are working, you should get some, it’s better.

Are you another who keeps harking on about last season? This league is at a whole new level and the slightest error gets punished ruthlessly.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

1 season, 1 promotion. Glasses are working, you should get some, it’s better.

Can I ask how you felt in our last relegation season? Did you enjoy watching us that season? This season isn't going to be any different. The manager. like Jones and Selles before him, is completely out of his depth. 

[saintant]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Well on basis that a) they’ve been successful under this manager b) some have signed again to work for him after being here last year and c) ones who weren’t here last year clearly had other options but chose to come here (one specifically because of a review of someone here last year) I’m going to be slightly presumptuous and say they are feeling quite happy to be here and with the way they are asked to play.

You rarely, if ever, hear a player say anything remotely critical of his own manager and there's a fairly obvious reason for that.

[Hopper]

Ramsdale joined knowing the score and knowing the project. We are trying to build the long term stability of the club that’s the project. SR are clearly invested. The players who have joined are invested. It’s just sad that a section of our fan base aren’t invested. We’re 3 games into a first premier league season. We are ONE POINT off 15th and TWO POINTS off 12th.

4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Quite the contrary. Possession based play is where most of the chances against us originate.

It requires absolute, continuous concentration from our defenders and eventually they crack under the pressure that they have to endure. The opposition however have a much more relaxing time.

And I for one remember the constant pressure we put ourselves under with Ralph, Nathan Jones and Seles. Live short in the memory huh? At least now there is a measure of control. How many points did we drop because we conceded late in games too knackered to maintain the press?

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That’s very presumptuous. Professionals are only interested in one thing.

In which case..none of them will be frustrated as to why they are asked to play this way then? 

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Are you another who keeps harking on about last season? This league is at a whole new level and the slightest error gets punished ruthlessly.

Yeah sorry I’m using the final result of the only season we have been managed by Martin to judge how well he’s done so far and not 3 games of this one. Silly me.

[badgerx16]

11 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Conceded two after we went 4 at the back today fwiw. 

But the first was another suicidal fannying about at the back balls up, and the other was failing to cope with a long throw. The formation probably had little to do with either.

[Saint Billy]

Some on here are still hanging onto the euphoria of winning the playoffs and getting promoted and all the excitement that generated. 

Time for a reality check, this is going to be a long hard season especially with RM sticking to his principles as he has once again repeated. I am not calling for his head but he has got to realise that we do not have players at the back good enough to play his brand of football. If the flame burns you do not keep going back and touching it.

My big doubt is that he will not change nor does he want to, which will make for a very tough watch, a very depressing season with relegation a certainty.

[Fabrice29]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Can I ask how you felt in our last relegation season? Did you enjoy watching us that season? This season isn't going to be any different. The manager. like Jones and Selles before him, is completely out of his depth. 

We were piss poor. Disorganised, switching between 3 ways of playing because we had 3 different managers and spent the whole season off the field reacting to fan pressure and general narrative which led to being a mess, under coached and broken on the pitch. Our captain was actively talking about leaving whilst the season was still going on.

We are much much better this time round than we were that season. We have confidence, a way of playing and a group that is quite clearly together off the field and quite clearly well coached on it. Might end up the same result, the PL is tough but we are much better placed this year to improve throughout the season than we were last time. 

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, Hopper said:

Ramsdale joined knowing the score and knowing the project. We are trying to build the long term stability of the club that’s the project. SR are clearly invested. The players who have joined are invested. It’s just sad that a section of our fan base aren’t invested. We’re 3 games into a first premier league season. We are ONE POINT off 15th and TWO POINTS off 12th.

And I for one remember the constant pressure we put ourselves under with Ralph, Nathan Jones and Seles. Live short in the memory huh? At least now there is a measure of control. How many points did we drop because we conceded late in games too knackered to maintain the press?

Of course I remember Ralphball. The difference now is that our defenders are knackered and we don’t have any goals to show for our efforts.

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

In which case..none of them will be frustrated as to why they are asked to play this way then? 

Yeah sorry I’m using the final result of the only season we have been managed by Martin to judge how well he’s done so far and not 3 games of this one. Silly me.

As you constantly need reminding, that was at a lower level. So far he’s shown himself to be out of his depth at this level. Even after three games.

[Hopper]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Of course I remember Ralphball. The difference now is that our defenders are knackered and we don’t have any goals to show for our efforts.

They aren’t though are they? They made individual errors. 🤷‍♂️

[Fabrice29]

6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

But the first was another suicidal fannying about at the back balls up, and the other was failing to cope with a long throw. The formation probably had little to do with either.

Agreed. That was my point. 

 

9 minutes ago, saintant said:

You rarely, if ever, hear a player say anything remotely critical of his own manager and there's a fairly obvious reason for that.

‘ I really hate the way they ask me to play and they have told me it will be the same way again this year…anyway…where do I sign?’ 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Hopper said:

They aren’t though are they? They made individual errors. 🤷‍♂️

Yes. Because they were knackered. Mentally as much as physically.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

We were piss poor. Disorganised, switching between 3 ways of playing because we had 3 different managers and spent the whole season off the field reacting to fan pressure and general narrative which led to being a mess, under coached and broken on the pitch. Our captain was actively talking about leaving whilst the season was still going on.

We are much much better this time round than we were that season. We have confidence, a way of playing and a group that is quite clearly together off the field and quite clearly well coached on it. Might end up the same result, the PL is tough but we are much better placed this year to improve throughout the season than we were last time. 

So, you really think this season is going to be much different? Confidence won't last much longer in the players if we keep losing games. Well coached in doing what exactly? Passing the ball between our back line? We lose against Ipswich and the atomsphere at St Mary's will be every bit like when we lost to Wolves and Forest in our relegation year. 

[Hopper]

Let me ask this, those who are so discontent. How are you solving the issue? Who are you bringing in? How are they set up to play? Genuinely curious what you have in mind.

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

100% correct. People who were wrong last year are desperately trying to be right this time. Haters going to hate. Bed wetters going to bed wet. 

No , he’s not 100% correct, it’s 100% in alignment with your view. That’s a huge difference .

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, Hopper said:

Let me ask this, those who are so discontent. How are you solving the issue? Who are you bringing in? How are they set up to play? Genuinely curious what you have in mind.

The system has to change. Our brand of possession football is not going to work at this level, if it ever did at another. It only creates chances for the opposition and none for us. If RM won’t change the way that we play then he has to go.

I wouldn’t sack him right now but If I were in charge I would be having a ‘full and frank discussion with him about our playing style and how he plans to change it. If he won’t then he goes.

Man Utd up next 😢

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

As you constantly need reminding, that was at a lower level. So far he’s shown himself to be out of his depth at this level. Even after three games.

I don’t need reminding, I’m just thinking maybe 3 out of 38 games isn’t enough to judge someone on? As I’ve stated on another thread Bournemouth went 10 games last year without winning and were fine. This idea that 3 games and you can make such wild conclusions is nuts. Maybe..just like last season…the start of the season is…just the start? and maybe…just like last season…we’ll get better and might stop giving the ball away outside our box…

Or maybe not of course. Or maybe we do and we still go down. I’m not sure I know, obviously you do so you’re much better at this stuff than me, but then again…I’ve no doubt you said the same this time last season and my point is you were wrong then too.

[Fabrice29]

5 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

So, you really think this season is going to be much different? Confidence won't last much longer in the players if we keep losing games. Well coached in doing what exactly? Passing the ball between our back line? We lose against Ipswich and the atomsphere at St Mary's will be every bit like when we lost to Wolves and Forest in our relegation year. 

I think we’ve got a better chance of beating Ipswich this year than we did Wolves and Forest last time. But I don’t know if we will or not, obviously. And if we don’t, I don’t think we should panic and through everything out the window like we did last time, because that caused more damage than good.

[aintforever]

9 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

As you constantly need reminding, that was at a lower level. So far he’s shown himself to be out of his depth at this level. Even after three games.

Or maybe our players are just not good enough?

[Fabrice29]

4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The system has to change. Our brand of possession football is not going to work at this level, if it ever did at another. 

Hate to go all Twitter community notes on you but for full clarity…the brand of football does work at this level for others and it absolutely did work at another level for us last year. 

Edited September 1 by Fabrice29

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I think we’ve got a better chance of beating Ipswich this year than we did Wolves and Forest last time. But I don’t know if we will or not, obviously. And if we don’t, I don’t think we should panic and through everything out the window like we did last time, because that caused more damage than good.

So, you'd be quite happy for us to get beat each week with Martin in charge?

[Hopper]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The system has to change. Our brand of possession football is not going to work at this level, if it ever did at another. It only creates chances for the opposition and none for us. If RM won’t change the way that we play then he has to go.

I wouldn’t sack him right now but If I were in charge I would be having a ‘full and frank discussion with him about our playing style and how he plans to change it. If he won’t then he goes.

Man Utd up next 😢

So no suggestions on who should replace him or how we should play?

Russ isn’t changing the way he works. That’s WHY he was brought in. It’s why a number of players have bought in.

You hear the term ‘earn the right to play’ in football a lot. I think Russ has more than earned the right to manage us this season win lose or draw and that knee jerking 3 games in is hyperbolic.

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

Hate to go all community notes but for full clarity…the brand of football does work at this level for others and it absolutely did work at another level for us last year. 

You keep going on about last year!!! Even then it didn’t work very well then. With a more traditional style we probably wouldn’t have conceded such a frightening number of goals.

Which others does it work for?

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Or maybe our players are just not good enough?

Not good enough to play this way. Danny Murphy put it concisely on MOTD.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Which others does it work for

Works great for Man City. No idea why though.

[Wade Garrett]

55 minutes ago, Hopper said:

Yesterday was a good example of why we need to stay the course. We were on the wrong end of the result because of 2 individual errors. 

Brentford and Thomas Frank are the blueprint. They play in their way and they stuck by the manager who has developed his team over a number of seasons to suit the way he wants to play.

Reading through X this morning I was pleasantly surprised at the optimism I saw. I think many of us agree that we’d rather fight and try to play and fail. Than resort to Dyche ball (Which is also spectacularly failing right now)

In some regards yesterday was a blessing. It’s reinforced that MF, TB, AL and CA are a cut above JA, WS & AA. It also showed that the 5 at the back experiment isn’t working. Russ for all his stubbornness does have the humility to admit when he’s got it wrong and to his credit made the right changes early in the match… a penny drop moment?

The individual errors will stop or the players will get dropped. Outside of those we have looked OK defensively and whilst people say stats can deceive which is obviously true to a degree I do believe that possession. Based play is helping to mitigate the number of chances teams are having against us. Our total shots and on target stats were not bad yesterday but we were undone by individual sloppiness and not being clinical enough. If Arma burries that chance before half time it’s a totally different game. I see this season as a gift and a free hit. I’m fully behind Russ and his team and I think it will come good. If it doesn’t we’re in a very good spot next season rather than the turmoil of our last relegation.

So we have to play like a Dyche team if we don’t play RussSuicideBall?  Righto.

[aintforever]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Not good enough to play this way. Danny Murphy put it concisely on MOTD.

I think we will probably go down regardless of what system we play. I just don’t think there are enough goals in that team wether we have Martin in charge or Pep.

[sfc4prem]

45 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Why do people insist we will be better off next season if we go down again? Most of the squad we have now will leave. The three teams relegated from last season haven't exactly made the best of starts, why would we be any different when we are going to have the likes of Baz back in goal? Saying this season is a gift is about as tinpot and noddy as you can get. We aren't in the Premier League for the first time in our history. 

Agreed, it does bemuse me to see people so relaxed about the prospect of relegation.

We surely would lose a lot of players if we did, and would be back to square fucking one.

Weirdly, I would love to see Martin stay if we did get relegated, as I believe he does learn from errors and mistakes and is evolving. He inspires his players and creates a real togetherness, something we haven't had for a long time.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, Hopper said:

So no suggestions on who should replace him or how we should play?

Russ isn’t changing the way he works. That’s WHY he was brought in. It’s why a number of players have bought in.

You hear the term ‘earn the right to play’ in football a lot. I think Russ has more than earned the right to manage us this season win lose or draw and that knee jerking 3 games in is hyperbolic.

The world is full of alternative managers.

If Russ isn’t changing then we have to change Russ.

He’s earned no right to anything. He was employed to get us promoted which he did by the skin of our teeth. There is no room for sentimentality in this game at this level. What anybody did last season only applied to last season.

[Hopper]

1 minute ago, Wade Garrett said:

So we have to play like a Dyche team if we don’t play RussSuicideBall?  Righto.

I’ve openly asked for suggestions on who should replace him and how we should play but it’s eerily quiet. Could it be some just like to moan and not think critically? 🤔 

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, sfc4prem said:

Agreed, it does bemuse me to see people so relaxed about the prospect of relegation.

We surely would lose a lot of players if we did, and would be back to square fucking one.

That’s what everyone said last time we went down yet the season after was one of the most enjoyable I have experienced.

[Wade Garrett]

35 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Quite the contrary. Possession based play is where most of the chances against us originate.

It requires absolute, continuous concentration from our defenders and eventually they crack under the pressure that they have to endure. The opposition however have a much more relaxing time.

Good pressing teams, which is most of the premier league, destroy our attempts of trying to create overloads at the back.  Even a blind man can see that.

Still as long as we’re being brave and the manager loves the group then we’re all ok.

Give me a fucking break.

[Wade Garrett]

39 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Well on basis that a) they’ve been successful under this manager b) some have signed again to work for him after being here last year and c) ones who weren’t here last year clearly had other options but chose to come here (one specifically because of a review of someone here last year) I’m going to be slightly presumptuous and say they are feeling quite happy to be here and with the way they are asked to play.

That’s a hell of an assumption.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, Hopper said:

I’ve openly asked for suggestions on who should replace him and how we should play but it’s eerily quiet. Could it be some just like to moan and not think critically? 🤔 

I'd like to see us play at a quicker tempo, cut out the needless passing between the back line and midfield. I'd like to see us not be scared to actually attack teams. I'd like to see us be competive against teams that are likely to be in the bottom 8 with us. I'd actually like to see us work oppostion keepers. 

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, Hopper said:

I’ve openly asked for suggestions on who should replace him and how we should play but it’s eerily quiet. Could it be some just like to moan and not think critically? 🤔 

Not sure why you can't make any critical comments unless you can come up with an alternative system/coach. 

[Hopper]

1 minute ago, saintant said:

Not sure why you can't make any critical comments unless you can come up with an alternative system/coach. 

No of course you can. But just saying we need to play with more tempo and disregard the work that’s been done and the success found last season after 3 games without any construction is just moaning isn’t it.

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Hopper said:

I’ve openly asked for suggestions on who should replace him and how we should play but it’s eerily quiet. Could it be some just like to moan and not think critically? 🤔 

I don't think people need to suggest names to have an opinion that a different coach could get more out of these players. 

In the same way us fans didn't have to suggest names to get upgraded players in the window. 

These people exist. It's not our job as fans to nominate them. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

9 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

Agreed, it does bemuse me to see people so relaxed about the prospect of relegation.

We surely would lose a lot of players if we did, and would be back to square fucking one.

Weirdly, I would love to see Martin stay if we did get relegated, as I believe he does learn from errors and mistakes and is evolving. He inspires his players and creates a real togetherness, something we haven't had for a long time.

Not sure if we get relegated he can stay to be honest. Can imagine it being a bit like Jones if we are still playing like this around November time. He doesn't like being questioned about his methods during interviews, I can see him having a Jones meltdown at some point. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

40 minutes ago, Hopper said:

Ramsdale joined knowing the score and knowing the project. We are trying to build the long term stability of the club that’s the project. SR are clearly invested. The players who have joined are invested. It’s just sad that a section of our fan base aren’t invested. We’re 3 games into a first premier league season. We are ONE POINT off 15th and TWO POINTS off 12th.

And I for one remember the constant pressure we put ourselves under with Ralph, Nathan Jones and Seles. Live short in the memory huh? At least now there is a measure of control. How many points did we drop because we conceded late in games too knackered to maintain the press?

Two wrongs don’t make a right. We neither maintain possession enough to stop errors at the back, nor do we effectively press as a team high up the pitch to stifle the opposition building. Our possession is meaningless if it results in defeat after defeat and currently it’s difficult to see beyond that when every single move forward has to drill through 11 defenders.

[egg]

25 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Not good enough to play this way. Danny Murphy put it concisely on MOTD.

And that's the main point. Not good enough to play this way does not mean that they're not good enough to play at this level. Play them to their strengths, and don't put them under pressure with stupid tactics, and they'll do better. 

Edited September 1 by egg

[sfc4prem]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Not sure if we get relegated he can stay to be honest. Can imagine it being a bit like Jones if we are still playing like this around November time. He doesn't like being questioned about his methods during interviews, I can see him having a Jones meltdown at some point. 

I can see that. I can also see that the club seem to have bought into his vision and will stick with him. I'm not sure the club properly bought into either Ralph or Nathan Jones' visions.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, egg said:

And that's the main point. Not food enough to play this way does not mean that they're not good enough to play at this level. Play them to their strengths, and don't put them under pressure with stupid tactics, and they'll do better. 

Couldn't agree more. This squad is capable of being competitive at this level.