S-Clarke Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said: Nope. Actually can't wait for him to pull out of the running by the end of the week so all the people who don't want him can be even more angry that we didn't get it done. You remind me of Always, just constantly attacking other views and mocking everyone. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said: We’ve been fucking awful but we certainly haven’t attempted to be a possession based side, go and ask any coach what our tactical philosophy is and Id wager none will say possession based. Passing a ball around and looking for option’s doesn’t make us a possession side by the way. Our MO is to try to catch the oppo in favourable positions in and around their penalty area, unfortunately we genuinely have very very little threat/build up other than that, but it has got even worse under the end of Ralph/Selles… teams know if they leave us on the ball we’re ponderous and toothless, hence the passing back.. because frankly our attacking bank of four make very few penetrating runs outside of Theo Sure, under Ralph we certainly were a side that had limited aspirations other than setting traps and trying to force errors and turnovers that put us in great positions. But that feels like light years ago now. It's hard to know what the plan was under Jones, as he talked about being aggressive and on the front foot, brought in a target man, but then seemed to look to play pretty short and through the lines. Forrest game apart, we didn't really go long and hopeful. In the City cup game, it was about pressing, and taking chances to break. I am not sure how to describe the philosophy in games like Brentford or Wolves. Flounder? Selles initially seemed to also want to press, but that quickly morphed into more of a deep lying defence and slow, possession-based build up. We passed the ball left to right, probing, trying to get the ball to a player with space to move into. We didn't hit it long, we didn't hit it down the channels, we didn't ping it to a target man. We passed it short, tried to keep it, tried to pass through teams. We have been terrible at it, but that doesn't mean we haven't tried to dominate possession. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 I know we were unlikely to ever attract a big name but surely we could have got someone that had managed at premier league level in the past either here or the equivalent abroad 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 20 minutes ago, Chez said: Sure, under Ralph we certainly were a side that had limited aspirations other than setting traps and trying to force errors and turnovers that put us in great positions. But that feels like light years ago now. It's hard to know what the plan was under Jones, as he talked about being aggressive and on the front foot, brought in a target man, but then seemed to look to play pretty short and through the lines. Forrest game apart, we didn't really go long and hopeful. In the City cup game, it was about pressing, and taking chances to break. I am not sure how to describe the philosophy in games like Brentford or Wolves. Flounder? Selles initially seemed to also want to press, but that quickly morphed into more of a deep lying defence and slow, possession-based build up. We passed the ball left to right, probing, trying to get the ball to a player with space to move into. We didn't hit it long, we didn't hit it down the channels, we didn't ping it to a target man. We passed it short, tried to keep it, tried to pass through teams. We have been terrible at it, but that doesn't mean we haven't tried to dominate possession. This is what I mentioned earlier, I think as a club we're totally confused and caught between two styles. That has also massively impacted our recruitment as we have such a miss match of a squad with no team suited to one way, it's just messy and incredibly unbalanced if you look at it on paper - that's why the attack is like a tombola, nothing sticks. We've focused so much in recent years on players who are good off the ball, but are actually pretty shit when they have it. That started to change a bit last summer, but it needs to continue at a pace this year whilst also flogging the players who are just caught in between styles. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big M Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 On 22/05/2023 at 19:52, croydonsaint said: Looking at this video I can’t say I’m being inspired. Will he be too keen to be liked? He doesn’t look a particularly strong character. Know he’s a decent guy and all that and am sure he’s intelligent but feels to me like we are making another big mistake if the rumours are correct. If we are wanting to bounce back up next season I doubt if this appointment can achieve that. If he comes I certainly wish him luck and will be very happy to be proved wrong but feels a risky appointment after 2 other risky appointments which failed badly. Omg,he reminds me of Ricky Gervais in 'The Office ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 9 minutes ago, Chez said: Sure, under Ralph we certainly were a side that had limited aspirations other than setting traps and trying to force errors and turnovers that put us in great positions. But that feels like light years ago now. It's hard to know what the plan was under Jones, as he talked about being aggressive and on the front foot, brought in a target man, but then seemed to look to play pretty short and through the lines. Forrest game apart, we didn't really go long and hopeful. In the City cup game, it was about pressing, and taking chances to break. I am not sure how to describe the philosophy in games like Brentford or Wolves. Flounder? Selles initially seemed to also want to press, but that quickly morphed into more of a deep lying defence and slow, possession-based build up. We passed the ball left to right, probing, trying to get the ball to a player with space to move into. We didn't hit it long, we didn't hit it down the channels, we didn't ping it to a target man. We passed it short, tried to keep it, tried to pass through teams. We have been terrible at it, but that doesn't mean we haven't tried to dominate possession. Ralph was a very pure gagenpress, hyper aggressive, effectively he would intentionally GIFT the opposition possession at times in optimal areas (for us) via a long ball but also initiate a press so to try to catch them with a bad touch etc. It was pretty effective at first, he then changed it slightly as teams didn’t succumb to that, so we’d move up the pitch then press at certain trigger points, but ultimately that was our tactical philosophy… a press.. pressing tactics are actually arguably the hardest to coach, which is why you don’t see them outside of many top leagues and rarely internationally.. players need to be aware of triggers and act in groups, there needs to be a level of autonomy. Jones… agreed, Im actually not sure if I could tell you what he was trying to do and Ill be 100% honest I was so demoralised I tended to turn games off 😅, it was a mess, he was just so out of his comfort zone it was actually quite sad seeing how badly he was failing, he just flailed around trying to find anything that would stick Selles… I dunno, I actually do think there is a good tactical coach there, I do think he has good ideas but it just didn’t work did it… I think he wants to press, but its half baked (like the end of RH’s reign) and a half baked press is a disaster, kills team shape and the opponents just wander round it. I think we pass it slowly in order to try to pull a team out, so we can press but it doesn’t really work and we end up trying to pass our way through which we can’t because our front line is, as stated before, terrible from a movement POV 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie May Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 Players will warm to Russell Martin a lot more than they did with NJ. It was quite clear from Jones’ first mic’d-up training session that it was going to end in tears. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 15 minutes ago, Maggie May said: Players will warm to Russell Martin a lot more than they did with NJ. It was quite clear from Jones’ first mic’d-up training session that it was going to end in tears. He played premier league and was a full international for a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West end Saints Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 43 minutes ago, Mr X said: I know we were unlikely to ever attract a big name but surely we could have got someone that had managed at premier league level in the past either here or the equivalent abroad Who? Bearing mind we don't know which managers want a break, who would or wouldn't want to come here, I haven't seen many realistic better options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsaint1 Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 52 minutes ago, Maggie May said: Players will warm to Russell Martin a lot more than they did with NJ. It was quite clear from Jones’ first mic’d-up training session that it was going to end in tears. Well the players loved Selles which got us absolutely nowhere also. As long he doesnt come across as a cunt, I couldnt care less what they think of Martin. The players will be googling and looking at his wikipedia to find out what hes actually done as a manager, and then will come to the conclusion that hes achieved less than Jones unfortunately. However, the proof is in the pudding and players will warm to the manager if its an enjoyable playing style, which most importantly gets the results on the pitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 43 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said: He played premier league and was a full international for a start. Like Mourinho and Wenger 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 Some of this is interesting and an insight into what he was dealing with in January. Reminded me a bit of the Maddison situation that Les Reed recently described where we almost had Maddison but had to waste time getting an approval from China. Obviously he kind of toes the line of really slagging the owners off but it did much on either side to strengthen the relationships. IMO he comes across as a collaborative person who clearly cares about his staff and players - and also who is quite open and chatty which fans usually prefer. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 13 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said: Like Mourinho and Wenger 🤔 And Selles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 3 hours ago, skintsaint said: Has he signed yet? Apparently we’re haggling over compensation. 800k for him and his staff. What is 800k to Saints in this day in age? If you want the guy and he’s your no1, go get him. Don’t fart arse around like you have transfers over the past few seasons, then miss out and say ‘oh well, we tried hard’ This fuckking club, honestly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 9 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said: Apparently we’re haggling over compensation. 800k for him and his staff. What is 800k to Saints in this day in age? If you want the guy and he’s your no1, go get him. Don’t fart arse around like you have transfers over the past few seasons, then miss out and say ‘oh well, we tried hard’ This fuckking club, honestly. If that is true, I'd probably look towards Swansea American ownership too who are known to change goalposts on deals at the 11th hour and delay and delay over everything. It's certainly not going to be as clear cut as ''we don't pay x'', if that is the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James G Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 20 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said: Apparently we’re haggling over compensation. 800k for him and his staff. What is 800k to Saints in this day in age? If you want the guy and he’s your no1, go get him. Don’t fart arse around like you have transfers over the past few seasons, then miss out and say ‘oh well, we tried hard’ This fuckking club, honestly. It's not true 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS1980 Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 22 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said: Apparently we’re haggling over compensation. 800k for him and his staff. What is 800k to Saints in this day in age? If you want the guy and he’s your no1, go get him. Don’t fart arse around like you have transfers over the past few seasons, then miss out and say ‘oh well, we tried hard’ This fuckking club, honestly. Like with most things, just because that’s the asking price doesn’t mean you just pay it. It’s a game of negotiation. he’ll be announced next week after the season is finished. Also, what would happen if Russell resigned in order to push through a move? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 26 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said: Apparently we’re haggling over compensation. 800k for him and his staff. What is 800k to Saints in this day in age? If you want the guy and he’s your no1, go get him. Don’t fart arse around like you have transfers over the past few seasons, then miss out and say ‘oh well, we tried hard’ This fuckking club, honestly. Well spank my ass and call me Charlie! "Oooooh Chaaarliee" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsaint1 Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 Just realised hes only 37 😱 wonder if he fancies getting his boots on next season. Couldnt do much worse than our current CB options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James G Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 3 minutes ago, EBS1980 said: Like with most things, just because that’s the asking price doesn’t mean you just pay it. It’s a game of negotiation. he’ll be announced next week after the season is finished. Also, what would happen if Russell resigned in order to push through a move? It's under contract laws, still requires compensation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarehamSaintJames Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 Cue the Twitter meltdown from the idiots on there that hadn’t even heard of Russell Martin two weeks ago. 😂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmes_and_Watson Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 Looking at the video and just picturing him at our press conference explaining why the process failed to get us a striker. Or telling us what a good chance we have of hitting the playoffs, only for it to become out of reach. Brrrr. Let's hope that we've learned about recruitment, and he never has to explain why we're not going up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon_man Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said: Apparently we’re haggling over compensation. 800k for him and his staff. What is 800k to Saints in this day in age? If you want the guy and he’s your no1, go get him. Don’t fart arse around like you have transfers over the past few seasons, then miss out and say ‘oh well, we tried hard’ This fuckking club, honestly. Which way is the payment going? Edited 23 May, 2023 by Dragon_man 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhitey Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 37 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said: Apparently we’re haggling over compensation. 800k for him and his staff. What is 800k to Saints in this day in age? If you want the guy and he’s your no1, go get him. Don’t fart arse around like you have transfers over the past few seasons, then miss out and say ‘oh well, we tried hard’ This fuckking club, honestly. Or, it could all be in place and they could be waiting to announce it once the season ends on Sunday. just a thought….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James G Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 1 minute ago, Holmes_and_Watson said: Looking at the video and just picturing him at our press conference explaining why the process failed to get us a striker. Or telling us what a good chance we have of hitting the playoffs, only for it to become out of reach. Brrrr. Let's hope that we've learned about recruitment, and he never has to explain why we're not going up. Individually, the players are good. Look at the Leicester team, they're all Premier League players. I think everything above player level has been the problem, it's the process of change that has led to this season. But this season has come about because of recent seasons. I think, maybe, keeping former senior players would have kept us up, but still low down. You sometimes have to reboot, and we will be best placed to return next year. All the other teams are in more of a mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee On Solent Saint Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 59 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said: Apparently we’re haggling over compensation. 800k for him and his staff. 800k? Didn't we have to pay Luton 4m for Jones and his mates? We really had our pants pulled down by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 11 minutes ago, James G said: Individually, the players are good. Look at the Leicester team, they're all Premier League players. I think everything above player level has been the problem, it's the process of change that has led to this season. But this season has come about because of recent seasons. I think, maybe, keeping former senior players would have kept us up, but still low down. You sometimes have to reboot, and we will be best placed to return next year. All the other teams are in more of a mess In what way are Leic and Leeds worse off? Genuine Q Why are we 'best placed' to return? We don't know anything really about how (who) the new manager is going to step up, or any idea about what the team will be (ditto Leeds and Leic). I think we could well be top 8, middle 8 or bottom 8; come back to me after 15 games and I will have a bit more idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 1 hour ago, EBS1980 said: Also, what would happen if Russell resigned in order to push through a move? Gardening leave or something. He can refuse to work for Swansea but wouldn't be able to start for us. Equally Swansea couldn't then replace him either. Anyway, none of that is going to happen. He;s got a defined release clause, it's not even the end of the season. Martin is not going to be the manager on Sunday so it doesn't matter that much right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 1 hour ago, Crab Lungs said: Apparently we’re haggling over compensation. 800k for him and his staff. What is 800k to Saints in this day in age? If you want the guy and he’s your no1, go get him. Don’t fart arse around like you have transfers over the past few seasons, then miss out and say ‘oh well, we tried hard’ This fuckking club, honestly. Bearing in mind the value for money we got in the January transfer window, we are probably haggling over the price because they're asking £800k and we keep offering £2m. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 23 May, 2023 Share Posted 23 May, 2023 17 hours ago, Nolan said: Swansea had Strikers managed by Russell Martin, in a style of Play Managed by Russell Martin. There is a transfer window and two months before the championship season starts, so why and earth presume the squad we'll start with then? Also, dont forget: One player links Southampton and Swansea. Michael Obafemi. in 21/22 Martin got 12 Goals out of him. Fair enough. How many goals did RL get when we were promoted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 (edited) It would be very silly if we werent haggling. Swansea know we're getting massive parachute payments so would sensibly try and push for as much as they can get. Thats business Edited 24 May, 2023 by Nolan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamplemousse Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 Apparently we're waiting until we tell Selles 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said: Like Mourinho and Wenger 🤔 When Les Reed walked into the managers office at Charlton, some short sighted people said he would fail because he wasn't a former top player with big league experience. Edited 24 May, 2023 by CB Fry 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintsFan86 Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 23 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said: If that amount is correct and Crab Lungs was right about the haggling then it seems we have negotiated a lower amount and the board should be congratulated. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmes_and_Watson Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 9 minutes ago, The Cat said: If that amount is correct and Crab Lungs was right about the haggling then it seems we have negotiated a lower amount and the board should be congratulated. Half price manager! Go SR! Time will tell if half price was still too much 🙂 Can only hope he turns out to be among our best ever, like I hope for all appointments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarehamSaintJames Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 Selles confirmed to be on his way. I’m sure the same people calling for Russell Martin will be as equally underwhelmed when he is confirmed. 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 30 minutes ago, Master Bates said: Maybe he'll look at the league table now... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 If Martin does start work next week then the board are to be congratulated for getting on with it. no excuses now not to get the players in and out early and a decent pre-season. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 Just now, sandwichsaint said: If Martin does start work next week then the board are to be congratulated for getting on with it. no excuses now not to get the players in and out early and a decent pre-season. Yeah totally agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodymatt Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 It’s been Fabrizio’d. Looks like a three year deal, to be announced this afternoon. You’d think we made the Selles statement today so that we can go ahead and announce it now. Might not be everyone’s choice but I like how early we have got this done, so much to do in a short space of time before the season starts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 16 hours ago, Dusic said: Some of this is interesting and an insight into what he was dealing with in January. Reminded me a bit of the Maddison situation that Les Reed recently described where we almost had Maddison but had to waste time getting an approval from China. Obviously he kind of toes the line of really slagging the owners off but it did much on either side to strengthen the relationships. IMO he comes across as a collaborative person who clearly cares about his staff and players - and also who is quite open and chatty which fans usually prefer. Watched the whole thing and I think Martin comes over very well. An earnest and solid person, which will get him some slack at Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 Sacked by Xmas. Not the right appointment I feel. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmes_and_Watson Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 9 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said: Watched the whole thing and I think Martin comes over very well. An earnest and solid person, which will get him some slack at Saints. He did come across well. That was a difficult time. It looked as though he was going to stray over the line a few times, but used the close relationships he had with others in the process, to show the all round frustration. It's exactly the scenario he shouldn't have here, with the money man on the board and a lot to do very quickly. There are links in that video to why he left, and I don't think he'd be best placed to have another window where all the business was done, or falls through, at the end. But Selles and others come across well. In the end it's the results. Needing to do so much might mean it's a little tougher to build the same closeness. And we need to have that core in place as early as possible to give him every chance in pre season. A lot of that money we utterly wasted would be very handy now to get a few early deals over the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Wolf Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 19 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said: Watched the whole thing and I think Martin comes over very well. An earnest and solid person, which will get him some slack at Saints. Since when?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Wolf Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 I thought Wilcox was deciding the new manager... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 4 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said: I thought Wilcox was deciding the new manager... He's had a hand in the appointment according to Jacob Tanswell of The Athletic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SotonianWill Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 1 minute ago, beatlesaint said: He's had a hand in the appointment according to Jacob Tanswell of The Athletic. judging by the fact we handed the Man City assistant the job, that must’ve been Wilcox choice. I have the feeling Russell Martin is Dane Greasy’s man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 24 May, 2023 Share Posted 24 May, 2023 32 minutes ago, skintsaint said: Sacked by Xmas. Not the right appointment I feel. Bookmarked 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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