Jump to content

Russell Martin


LegalEagle

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

Russ will be patting himself on the back tonight. A job well done and a flying start to the season in his eyes.

20240831_165050.jpg

I think this is where the problem lies, it's not so much the style, it's the number of passes. If we have the best team of players with a 90 per cent pass rate, the ball is given away 10% of the time, so more passes means more mistakes.

If you eliminate the side to side passing and just move it forward quickly, it's less transitions, and you can then push higher up the pitch. 

The reason we are passing to the side is because of the formation, there is always a higher chance of an available player to the side of you than in front 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Martin: “We're going to stick with what we're doing. In five years of my career, it's got me this far. will live and die by the sword, know that, but I'd much rather do it this way and actually enjoy some of the moments the team gives me.

That about sums it up. Sounds like this is a vanity project to promote all things Russell Martin: as long as he's happy, to hell with everything else.

He probably masturbates to videos of himself masturbating. 

 

Edited by qwertyell
  • Like 4
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Yes and the noises coming from the club over the summer were that he won't be sacked regardless of performance this season - even if we go down. Tbf if we went down fighting and took it to the last game or so whilst playing decent football and actually competing in matches I don't think many people would be too critical. But the way things are going, we could be down quicker than 2 years ago and that was a complete shambles. 

Clubs always say that. If we do actually lose 8 in a row or similar then I think the noise will be such that he won't be able to continue for long. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Harry_SFC said:

Yes and the noises coming from the club over the summer were that he won't be sacked regardless of performance this season - even if we go down. 

That won’t last long if we don’t start at least competing next game onwards and the slow triangles at the back don’t cease. Jones didn’t get long with SR and Russell is no different. Credit for last season but if Ranieri could be sacked the season after winning the title, anything can happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be clear, I’m not saying ‘Martin out’, but ‘Russell, this isn’t anywhere near working and the tempo and patterns of play need to be varied far more than the first three games’.

Opponents can see the game plan from the coach leaving the M3.

Set each line up and formation to win each game.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It’s all about HIM. Thought process is look  where Vincent Kompany is now, ain’t done him any harm has it rigidly sticking to his principles and regularly chucking goals in. Ok Burnley went down but who gaf look where he is now.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He’s got this international break to clear his head, and to work with the players not on international duty. He’s got to work out tweaks to his tactics, rethink some of his beliefs and put into practise lessons he’s learnt from the 3 games.

I’d them give him until the next international break to see if he’s willing to adapt. It’s not necessarily about results, but if we’re still making the same mistakes, playing the same way & insisting Jack Stephen’s is  Beckenbauer then we need to pull the pin at the next break.
 

If there’s sign of progress & of flexibility, then he should stay. But the club shouldn’t go down because of Lego heads ego. He needs to change & change quickly. 

  • Like 15
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, stknowle said:

It’s all about HIM. Thought process is look  where Vincent Kompany is now, ain’t done him any harm has it rigidly sticking to his principles and regularly chucking goals in. Ok Burnley went down but who gaf look where he is now.

Very different playing careers. Russell’s is very good but Kompany is a world icon. Burnley fans were still in awe despite the results. Saints fans have had Lawrie, Ronald, Poch, a very effective and popular Nigel Adkins and WGS in recent memory. Russell won’t get that time. He has to adapt.

Edited by Gloucester Saint
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Martin: “We're going to stick with what we're doing. In five years of my career, it's got me this far. I will live and die by the sword, I know that, but I'd much rather do it this way and actually enjoy some of the moments the team gives me.” 

Martin: “When you make a mistake [playing] this way, everyone wants to talk about it. That's the context of what is normal and acceptable for British football, I guess.”

Fuck me. You're being criticised because it's an idiotic way to play in this league. He's said though he isn't going to change so on a weird way at least he's put his cards on the table. I wonder if he will, be so stubborn after 6 losses in a row. What about 8? Because that's where it will head if we play this style. I think he has the potential to go seriously off the rails. 

I don't know what he's on about there. He's not reinventing football or doing anything revolutionary, he's just asking us to keep the ball and pass it sideways and backwards. 

Of course everyone will want to talk about the mistakes when they cost us 3 goals in the first 3 games. It's not about context, narrative or however he wants to paint it, it's a clear flaw in how we're currently approaching things at this level. 

British football has embraced Man City who play out from the back, quick 1-2's etc. The difference is the quality. We need to respect our limitations at this level, which are vast. Because if we don't and we live in this weird bubble that we're doing something so incredibly brave, then we'll end up having to be brave on 6 points at the bottom of the league in May.

I tell you what'll be brave at that point - wearing a Saints shirt in public after we've been made to be the worst team in PL history, that would be brave.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Managers need to properly evaluate the talent they have, and then figure out a way to win with it. Unsuccessful managers force a style on the team without consideration for the talent level/styles that he is managing.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

The problem is RM believes in his style so much that he’s not going to be prepared to change even when the penny drops that every team is better than he’s ever faced in his career having never managed above the Championship.

What he needs is a little humility and to admit that there is a need to establish yourself in the league before you think you can take on Pep and co. and beat them at their own game.

What is the old pros line ? You have to earn the right to play. That’s what RM needs to do. He won’t cos he’s too stubborn or arrogant of course……and that’s his main weakness.

He thinks he’s better than he actually is.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

If he doesn’t change he’ll go. Even if SR want to stand by him, the players will chuck him under a bus eventually. There’s no way professional players will continue to put up with being made to play like that week in week out in this league. If we continue to get dicked, he’ll lose them. 

Exactly - the way he is telling them to play is making them look like Sunday league footballers. In the end they'll get tired of continually being hung out to dry by his idiotic idea that he can coach them to play like prime Man City. Inevitably bickering and finger pointing will start. It was ok in the Championship when we were winning but the Premier League is another level. If his way worked all the Prem managers would be doing it - they don't because most of them are tactically knowledgeable enough to realise it won't work.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, stknowle said:

It’s all about HIM. Thought process is look  where Vincent Kompany is now, ain’t done him any harm has it rigidly sticking to his principles and regularly chucking goals in. Ok Burnley went down but who gaf look where he is now.

Er, yeah. There is a reason why Kompany got that job, and Koeman got the Barcelona job for that matter. 

Russell Martin is not a global name. 

If he finishes bottom and leaves Saints his next job will be Norwich or West Brom or something. Not Bayern Munich.

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't know what he's on about there. He's not reinventing football or doing anything revolutionary, he's just asking us to keep the ball and pass it sideways and backwards. 

Of course everyone will want to talk about the mistakes when they cost us 3 goals in the first 3 games. It's not about context, narrative or however he wants to paint it, it's a clear flaw in how we're currently approaching things at this level. 

British football has embraced Man City who play out from the back, quick 1-2's etc. The difference is the quality. We need to respect our limitations at this level, which are vast. Because if we don't and we live in this weird bubble that we're doing something so incredibly brave, then we'll end up having to be brave on 6 points at the bottom of the league in May.

I tell you what'll be brave at that point - wearing a Saints shirt in public after we've been made to be the worst team in PL history, that would be brave.

SR will act if this goes on much beyond the next 3 games, whatever they’ve said over the summer in the glow of Wembley. I like Russell but if he doesn’t think they won’t be like any other owner then he’s naive. It’s a results business, not a process business. They won’t sack him for a relegation but having invested in the squad, they’ll want to see us at least as positive and having a go as Luton did last season. If he sticks with walking passing triangles between the centre backs and Smallbone/Stephens/Aribo as immovable objects then Lallana will be interim manager by October.

Edited by Gloucester Saint
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

SR will act if this goes on much beyond the next 3 games, whatever they’ve said over the summer in the glow of Wembley. I like Russell but if he doesn’t think they won’t be like any other owner then he’s naive. It’s a results business, not a process business. They won’t sack him for a relegation but having invested in the squad, they’ll want to see us at least as positive and having a go as Luton did last season.

You don't spend £25m on a goalkeeper to just let the manager lose over and over because of his "principles".

He's probably got until fireworks night.

Edited by CB Fry
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Er, yeah. There is a reason why Kompany got that job, and Koeman got the Barcelona job for that matter. 

Russell Martin is not a global name. 

If he finishes bottom and leaves Saints his next job will be Norwich or West Brom or something. Not Bayern Munich.

 

Ok Fry 👍

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ralph Fastenbüttl said:

My hope is that he'll use the international break to start bedding in some of the newcomers and we'll kick off upon the league's return with some new ideas. Personally I'd love to see a formation and line-up along the lines of:

                   Archer
       Dibling            Fernandes
                    Lallana
                Les   Downes
Saga   Bednarek   THB/ABK   KWP
                  Ramsdale

Alternatively, if you drop one of Downes or Les we could get another attacker in there:

               BBD        Archer
                  Fernandes
      Dibling                  Lallana
                    Downes
Saga   Bednarek   THB/ABK   KWP
                    Ramsdale

Or if Adam's not up for the full 90 or we're absolutely wedded to three up front:

       BBD   Archer   Fernandes
                    Dibling   
          Downes          Les
Saga   Bednarek   THB/ABK   KWP
                   Ramsdale

Some good ideas but he simply has to start Big Les because we have been physically bullied in midfield in our last two league matches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

You don't spend £25m on a goalkeeper to just let the manager lose. 

He's probably got until fireworks night.

You’re probably right, unless we keep conceding like a sieve and losing the midfield. Needs a couple of wins though to get even that far, Nigel beat Villa and even Gray beat Boro and someone else, Hughes won at Palace. Hard to see where those are coming from, whereas under Hughes had a few draws and Nigel had a horrible fixture list but really great effort at City, pushed Fergie’s Utd all the way, fans staunchly behind him. It’s like PL v League One at the moment, and not even decent League One. He has to find a way of moving the game up the pitch and beating the press to give our centre halves a chance so we can get a foothold in games. 

Edited by Gloucester Saint
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, stknowle said:

Ok Fry 👍

He's got a point to be fair. Kompany didn't get the Bayern job because he'd relegated Burnley by playing this 'brave way'.

He got the Bayern job because he's called Vincent Kompany.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

He's got a point to be fair. Kompany didn't get the Bayern job because he'd relegated Burnley by playing this 'brave way'.

He got the Bayern job because he's called Vincent Kompany.

Yes he has got a point, to be fair. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

I am absolutely, 100%, saying, after 3 games, sack him now.

We have no chance of effectively implementing his Plan A, and he won’t compromise on his principles.  Plus, he’s just seen fit to throw his players under the bus for implementing his ludicrous tactics.

His starting lineup and tactics today were horrific.  The club has invested a lot of money on players, but having him as manager is like starting with 9 players.

I can’t see results improving.

Pochettino would get a tune out of this squad. 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He's said the team will be different next match. Last season after that awful run he did modify somewhat. And at the end of the season. 

Any changes will unlikely be enough to lead to great results given the league. But I think they'll lead to better performances, higher intensity and more directness. 

He's not a complete fool he knows we need to show signs of learning, and adapt.

New signings yet to play or settle. 

I remain hopeful of fewer self inflicted mistakes and happier times albeit towards the bottom of the league. 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, saintstowin said:

He's said the team will be different next match. Last season after that awful run he did modify somewhat. And at the end of the season. 

Any changes will unlikely be enough to lead to great results given the league. But I think they'll lead to better performances, higher intensity and more directness. 

He's not a complete fool he knows we need to show signs of learning, and adapt.

New signings yet to play or settle. 

I remain hopeful of fewer self inflicted mistakes and happier times albeit towards the bottom of the league. 

 

 

I hope you are right, let’s see. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, striker said:

Managers need to properly evaluate the talent they have, and then figure out a way to win with it. Unsuccessful managers force a style on the team without consideration for the talent level/styles that he is managing.

This is exactly it. I do wonder where he has picked up his ideas from. He hardly played for any ground breaking teams in his career.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, saintstowin said:

He's said the team will be different next match. Last season after that awful run he did modify somewhat. And at the end of the season. 

Any changes will unlikely be enough to lead to great results given the league. But I think they'll lead to better performances, higher intensity and more directness. 

He's not a complete fool he knows we need to show signs of learning, and adapt.

New signings yet to play or settle. 

I remain hopeful of fewer self inflicted mistakes and happier times albeit towards the bottom of the league. 

 

 

I hope to see more of Fernandes, but we need to see less of Smallbone or Aribo if we are going to make anything of this season. Feels harsh to say, but they're just a level below what is required for PL in speed and strength. You see it a lot - good Champ players that just cannot make that jump, in the end their careers level out and they become lower league. Unfortunately we currently have a lot of those sorts of players.

A bit more game time from the likes of Lesley, Fernandes, Cornet, Sugawara, Ramsdale etc and we may be able to do something. I still think we've got way too much to do though given that we've been shown up so much by 2 of the weaker sides in the league.

WHU played really well against Man City today but were done 3-1. This league is impossible if you cannot even compete with the dregs.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

Yes and the noises coming from the club over the summer were that he won't be sacked regardless of performance this season - even if we go down. Tbf if we went down fighting and took it to the last game or so whilst playing decent football and actually competing in matches I don't think many people would be too critical. But the way things are going, we could be down quicker than 2 years ago and that was a complete shambles. 

The owners can back him all they like but if the majority of the fanbase turn on him and he loses the dressing room he's toast.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, saintant said:

The owners can back him all they like but if the majority of the fanbase turn on him and he loses the dressing room he's toast.

The fans turned decisively on Mad Nate, so it's certainly possible if we see more intransigence from Russ whilst we sit on nil point.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It’s funny how RM gets prickly with Adam Blackmore when he dares to raise any slight criticism of “the system” 

I hope he hasn’t got Sky cos the microscope in this league is huge, Neville and Carragher will absolutely tear his methods apart.

Edited by beatlesaint
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems I’m in the minority but I still back Martin. He’s adapted before and likely to do so again. The decision making from our defence has been poor. There is brave and then there is just stupid. That needs to change and if it does I think we have the talent in this squad to try and stay up. If it doesn’t then of course a new manager will be found. The defence needs to take some responsibility for the piss poor goals today. 

  • Like 2
  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He’s got a bit of grace until the signings bed in and he gets our best XI on the pitch.

If after that it’s still going majorly tits up, he’ll be out. He may as well go for it and entertain, nothing to lose really as we’re going down anyway.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

This is exactly it. I do wonder where he has picked up his ideas from. He hardly played for any ground breaking teams in his career.

He didn’t play for any ground breaking teams. He was a Joe average player. So can only think that’s why he feels he has to have this genius philosophy as a manager?

Edited by Golac's Cunning Stunts
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Wiggles31 said:

Seems I’m in the minority but I still back Martin. He’s adapted before and likely to do so again. The decision making from our defence has been poor. There is brave and then there is just stupid. That needs to change and if it does I think we have the talent in this squad to try and stay up. If it doesn’t then of course a new manager will be found. The defence needs to take some responsibility for the piss poor goals today. 

The centre backs are not midfielders, their first job is to stop the opposition and then look for where Flynn/Lesley/Fernandes are. If there’s an opportunity to get BBD or Cornet in on the counter to beat an effective press, great, try it. 

It might be time for the players after hearing today’s post match comments to play to their strengths and ignore all of the possession based dogma. Ditto the strikers, they are on the last shoulder types, release them with through balls and linking with the fbs. Slow laborious ball retention is torture for them. 

Bollocks to philosophies. Scout your opposition, and set-up in a way which maximises your chances. Even if it means building a wall around the goal for City. It worked during Project Restart! Luton gave it a go last year, fell short but we could live with that. But this looks like relegation by Christmas without a sea change in approach and he won’t last anywhere near that long unless he rips up the dogma.

Edited by Gloucester Saint
  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

It’s funny how RM gets prickly with Adam Blackmore when he dares to raise any slight criticism of “the system” 

I hope he hasn’t got Sky cos the microscope in this league is huge, Neville and Carragher will absolutely tear his methods apart.

The co-commentator on today's match feed was absolutely scathing of the system being played. If anyone on Sky repeated that stuff then a lot of people would take notice.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Wiggles31 said:

Seems I’m in the minority but I still back Martin. He’s adapted before and likely to do so again. The decision making from our defence has been poor. There is brave and then there is just stupid. That needs to change and if it does I think we have the talent in this squad to try and stay up. If it doesn’t then of course a new manager will be found. The defence needs to take some responsibility for the piss poor goals today. 

I think part of RMs trouble is that he’s arrogant and prickly so not particularly likeable to the fan base. It didn’t take long last season for people to turn and it took two and a bit games this year. If he turns things around quickly he will temporarily get fans back onside but I sense the majority of fans don’t like him as a person and are waiting to pounce. 

Which is odd seeing as the players do seem to genuinely like and respect him. That won’t last long if he chucks them under the bus of course.

He doesn’t have the self awareness to sense his underlying unpopularity; add his arrogance and intransigence regarding his football style and it’s a recipe for getting turned on pretty quickly. 

I think he’s a good coach and would appear to be a very good man-manager. And as the manager of my team I’d love him to be a success. But his tactical awareness is either dreadful or simply sacrificed in favour of his philosophy; he doesn’t seem to understand his players’ level (they’re simply not good enough to do what he wants); and he’s got an arrogant public image (which he’s created all on his own).

I don’t see it ending well. I don’t think it should end just yet (or that we’re especially close). He’s earned the right to prove he can adapt- I’m just pretty sure he won’t be able or prepared to. Shame as we have some talented footballers on our books right now and could be having a fun season.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, LGTL said:

Make no mistake, this has the potential to go 15/20 games without a win. No problem. 

Agree, stubbornly sticking to playing a way that we're not very good at. Can see opposition managers rubbing their hands, let us have the ball, wait for a mistake , score in the knowledge that we've got virtually no goal threat to respond with. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

The fans turned decisively on Mad Nate, so it's certainly possible if we see more intransigence from Russ whilst we sit on nil point.

There's something about Brentford away that brings out the worst in our managers, seem to remember the fans turning on both Nathan Jones and Hassenhuttl in 3-0 defeats there. 

Frustrating growing towards Martin today amongst the fans, he really needs to get a positive result to get the fans believing again. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone calling for him to go already is a complete an utter reactionary moron. It's worth remembering that we lost 8 of the first 10 in 2012/13. 

The Man United game is a bit of a free-hit but we shouldn't fear them. After 2 weeks with the players, a switch to 4-3-3 and some change in personnel (which is clearly coming after his comments today), then we should see an improvement.  

We've got Ipswich, Leicester and Everton at home by 2nd November and those are the games we (more specifically the manager) will be ultimately judged on. We have to be more front-foot in those type of matches to try and score more goals, as clearly we're going to concede goals all season like most down at the bottom. 

 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

Wonder if he gets prickly if a player questions his methods?

Hey boss this is suicidal, we'll get crucified doing this...

The love will certainly fade if they're getting sent out to be embarrassed every week

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tbh the Man Utd game comes at a decent time for us. We'll assume Man Utd will have more possession so RM will have no choice but to come up with a change of tactics. If we get a result, maybe accidentally he'll have come up with a tactical template for future games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...