Ex Lion Tamer Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Last time we came up the club made a brave decision to sack Adkins. Will we do the same again? Martin has a few more games for me but things have to improve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 3 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said: Last time we came up the club made a brave decision to sack Adkins. Will we do the same again? Martin has a few more games for me but things have to improve Nothing like that scenario. Adkins made a horrendous start to the season, lost something like 8 out of the first 10. But he turned it right around and Saints were well out of the relegation scrap by the time he got sacked. We’d have stayed up easily with NA in charge. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_SFC Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Russ will be patting himself on the back tonight. A job well done and a flying start to the season in his eyes. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 7 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said: Russ will be patting himself on the back tonight. A job well done and a flying start to the season in his eyes. Absolutely dominant form. Nice one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) Settled nicely into the bottom three. Might as well make ourselves comfortable. Russell's going nowhere. Edited August 31 by Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Under Russell Martin we are nailed on relegated. Under another manager it's pretty likely as well. But the way we are being set up is not going to get us anywhere near enough points or goals. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Sack him and get someone like Dyche, who's tough, resilient and hard to beat. 2 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee On Solent Saint Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 I cannot stand Bournemouth,but as a club they seem to get things pretty right on the mamager front like Brighton. When they look at a new managers, they go for someone managing in the top league already in an established European League. Where do we look? In the Championship at fuckin Luton and Swansea. Then, when we do finally wake up and sack them, we employ the most tactically inept coaches we can find that are already at the club. SR need to be ruthless, they need to get rid of Martin and find someone who can be tactically adaptable and not be afraid to actually play football without the fear of getting beat. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 No chance he should be sacked whatever happens this season and should stay for next season. Keep him and go down and next season will be absolute class. Keep him and stay up and he will have done brilliantly. I couldn't give a shit if we go down this season. 2 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said: Sack him and get someone like Dyche, who's tough, resilient and hard to beat. Get the feeling we will be up against a caretaker manager for our cup match at Goodison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benali-shorts Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Is it too much to ask that rather than having a coach who is wedded to a single tactical approach, we have a coach who sets us up to make the best of the resources available? This would ideally not involve Bednarek, Harwood-Bellis and Stephens trying to pass it around like the Brazil ‘70 team. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Matty 76 Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 1 minute ago, benjii said: No chance he should be sacked whatever happens this season and should stay for next season. Keep him and go down and next season will be absolute class. Keep him and stay up and he will have done brilliantly. I couldn't give a shit if we go down this season. I was thinking that before the season started, but I'm a bit fed up already. It's just stupidity that's losing us these games, not a gap in quality to the other teams. Pure stupidity. Obviously he gets more time to try and turn it around, but I seriously wouldn't care if we rolled the dice in a couple months if he refuses to change things up. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 1 minute ago, benjii said: No chance he should be sacked whatever happens this season and should stay for next season. Keep him and go down and next season will be absolute class. Keep him and stay up and he will have done brilliantly. I couldn't give a shit if we go down this season. I'm pretty much ok with this. I loved last season, and it feels like we will be very well placed to actually push for the title next year. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 22 minutes ago, The Kraken said: Nothing like that scenario. Adkins made a horrendous start to the season, lost something like 8 out of the first 10. But he turned it right around and Saints were well out of the relegation scrap by the time he got sacked. We’d have stayed up easily with NA in charge. Sure, and we still made a ruthless decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said: Sack him and get someone like Dyche, who's tough, resilient and hard to beat. Like he was today yeah 🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) If he doesn’t change he’ll go. Even if SR want to stand by him, the players will chuck him under a bus eventually. There’s no way professional players will continue to put up with being made to play like that week in week out in this league. If we continue to get dicked, he’ll lose them. Edited August 31 by Lord Duckhunter 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 It’s going to be a fucking horrific season with Martin and relegation is virtually guaranteed. But he’s got form for getting promotion so probably alright for next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BotleySaint Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Anyone calling for Martin's head already is seriously overreacting. Fully deserves more time. I feel he has shown he can learn and adapt, especially with the subs today which he'd never have done last season. But if he can't sort out the defence and see the obvious, then he will go. But not yet! Crikey.. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloucester Saint Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) Not advocating sacking him, but he is seriously out of his depth tactically. He needs help, and his coaching staff are all as dogmatic as he is. Good man manager and communicator but I’d question whether Brentford were scouted properly as Will Smallbone is 10st dripping wet and against their midfield was asking for trouble. Aribo doesn’t have the movement to break their lines. Downes covered their flaws last season but has he own battles to win now in the PL and can’t carry them too. The pissing around at the back has to go or Russell does. The next home game needs to be a slow handclap from the fans when it starts up, then it’ll soon stop. Win the ball, get on the half turn and take it forward. Passing but moving the ball at a better tempo. That’s what the likes of Fernandes and Lesley are there for. Finally, we’ve got a small but quite mobile front line, play to their strengths with through balls and occasionally look to go over the press and early to them. Help them a bit. If Martin wants to play the slow crap then use Onachu and throw crosses in and attack the second ball after a slow build up. Edited August 31 by Gloucester Saint 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee On Solent Saint Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 4 minutes ago, benjii said: No chance he should be sacked whatever happens this season and should stay for next season. Keep him and go down and next season will be absolute class. Keep him and stay up and he will have done brilliantly. I couldn't give a shit if we go down this season. You really think that's gonna happen? We go down again, who the fuck do you think is going to stick around? These players are a lot better than Martin is making them look. The bottom 8 or so is much of the same, we need to get rid of Martin to give us a chance. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 The problem is RM believes in his style so much that he’s not going to be prepared to change even when the penny drops that every team is better than he’s ever faced in his career having never managed above the Championship. What he needs is a little humility and to admit that there is a need to establish yourself in the league before you think you can take on Pep and co. and beat them at their own game. What is the old pros line ? You have to earn the right to play. That’s what RM needs to do. He won’t cos he’s too stubborn or arrogant of course……and that’s his main weakness. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Lighthouse said: Sack him and get someone like Dyche, who's tough, resilient and hard to beat. Dyche would have seen a poor Everton side to a comfortable 12th without the points deduction. He got as much out of that squad as could be reasonably expected. Despite Everton's collapse today, he's absolutely a better manager than Martin. Martin has done nothing to prove he's as good. Having said that, I'm still holding out hope Russell shows some pragmatism. If he doesn't, he's only proving he's out of his depth and shouldn't be seen as the long term solution for us. Edited August 31 by Disco Stu 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 The new arrivals will improve on today’s starting 11. That needs to be given a chance before any changes are even considered. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErwinK1961 Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 12 minutes ago, CB Fry said: I'm pretty much ok with this. I loved last season, and it feels like we will be very well placed to actually push for the title next year. Thirded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benali-shorts Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Ramsdale Sugawara, any two of our mediocre CBs, KWP Downes Lesley Dibling Fernandes Fraser Archer Can someone let Russell know? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 33 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said: Last time we came up the club made a brave decision to sack Adkins. Will we do the same again? Martin has a few more games for me but things have to improve 2 minutes ago, Greenridge said: The new arrivals will improve on today’s starting 11. That needs to be given a chance before any changes are even considered. We are in the PL with only twp decent PL players although a few may develop into decent PL intime so what changes do you suggest should be made as we meet stronger teams, Like most teams which gain promotion through the playoffs we are likely to be relegated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloucester Saint Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 3 minutes ago, Greenridge said: The new arrivals will improve on today’s starting 11. That needs to be given a chance before any changes are even considered. Having had a taste of Fernandes, Lesley and Archer at Cardiff with their willingness to be positive and take risks (20 slow passes in front of your opponents is not brave - WGS called it propaganda football), even with that caveat of their second XI, I agree, but the manager has to be reminded by SR that they backed him, gave him what he asked for, so those incomings need to start subject to form and fitness. Smallbone was never the right pick against their midfield today who are strong and athletic and it needed to be Will OR Aribo not both if he really must pick one of them. As for Stephens, same, it’s whether he drops THB or Jan to fit him in if he must. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint NL Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Somewhere, Sam Allardyce is pouring himself a nice pint of wine and licking his lips at the payday coming his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Fastenbüttl Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 My hope is that he'll use the international break to start bedding in some of the newcomers and we'll kick off upon the league's return with some new ideas. Personally I'd love to see a formation and line-up along the lines of: Archer Dibling Fernandes Lallana Les Downes Saga Bednarek THB/ABK KWP Ramsdale Alternatively, if you drop one of Downes or Les we could get another attacker in there: BBD Archer Fernandes Dibling Lallana Downes Saga Bednarek THB/ABK KWP Ramsdale Or if Adam's not up for the full 90 or we're absolutely wedded to three up front: BBD Archer Fernandes Dibling Downes Les Saga Bednarek THB/ABK KWP Ramsdale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintStinger Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 He's got a way to go to be worse than our start under Adkins but hasn't earned enough credit to last as long if things don't change very soon. If he does get sacked it'll be his own fault. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 8 minutes ago, John B said: Like most teams which gain promotion through the playoffs we are likely to be relegated. We were in the league for 10 years, 10 years of premier league money, we were only down 1 season, we’re not like “most” play off winners . We’ve literally given 3 goals away this season as a direct result of the managers tactics. We’ve played against 10 men, against the team that finished 4th bottom last year, and the mighty Brentford. Just because other teams go straight back down, doesn’t mean we should put up with tactics that make it inevitable we will do so. I don’t think I’ve heard a commentator so exasperated watching a tactical performance before. It’s been a complete and utter tactical shit show in all 3 games. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertyell Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 I find him difficult to warm to. It's the unearned arrogance; that he's figured out THE football philosophy and everyone else is stupid. And when it fails, it's not his fault. The players weren't brave enough. Or the supporters weren't grateful enough. And don't worry, it'll be beautiful at some point. So, shut up. All the while, the only thing he's achieved in management came when he briefly abandoned his amazing philosophy and grimly ground out a couple of wins in the play offs. He'll take us back down, without a doubt. And expect to be thanked for it. But the club seems to have bought into his bullshit all the way, so this is how it's going to be. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) ----------------Ramsdale Suga----Bednarek----ABK----KWP --------------Ugochukwu ----------Downes----Dibling --------------Fernandes ------------Archer----BBD Stop with the tika taka in our box. It doesn't and never will work. Stop picking the favourites. ABK might be unlikely but I firmly believe he's our best centre half. Edited August 31 by Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 He is very naive, although we all knew that. I think if we're all honest we were somewhat fortunate to be promoted, we were the worst of the bunch (Although a good bunch) - but we got there, so we need to give them an opportunity. I think so far the same issues that haunted us last season, which was far from perfect by the way, are there all to see again this year - nothing has changed, apart from being up against better players and managers who will just take the piss out of the approach. I'm not talking about ripping it all up and starting again, but there needs to be some sort of re-think. I always look back to our teams under Koeman and Adkins, some of the best times I've had supporting this club. There was nothing in their tenures about philosophy's or identities, nothing. We just put teams out to win, adjusting things as and when required. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 I am absolutely, 100%, saying, after 3 games, sack him now. We have no chance of effectively implementing his Plan A, and he won’t compromise on his principles. Plus, he’s just seen fit to throw his players under the bus for implementing his ludicrous tactics. His starting lineup and tactics today were horrific. The club has invested a lot of money on players, but having him as manager is like starting with 9 players. I can’t see results improving. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 The insistence on the purity (and utility) of his footballing vision is just nonsense. We've played two of our fellow relegation contenders and neither played with any less sophistication or care towards the ball than we did. In fact, both Forest and Brentford put together many more quick and intricate moves than we managed. Martin doesn't have a revolutionary system or philosophy, he just has an inflexible and inferior idea of what the rest of elite football is already doing. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerspoon Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 1 hour ago, benjii said: No chance he should be sacked whatever happens this season and should stay for next season. Keep him and go down and next season will be absolute class. Keep him and stay up and he will have done brilliantly. I couldn't give a shit if we go down this season. I would like to see Dibling and lallana link up in the championship…… For me, RM has the international break to realise his brand will lose us far more goals than create them. If his doesn’t, he’s got to go 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) Russell makes a big show out of being a progressive manager but he's actually very limited tactically. He shows little ability to make proactive changes or an ability to make changes on a game to game basis in order to get a result. Yes he had his flaws but Ralph was so much better as a manager that it's almost embarrassing. Martin is a decent championship manager but rather like Armstrong when he comes up against top quality opposition he gets found out. In quite a few ways he reminds me a bit of someone like Chris wilder. Sure he's had some success but he can't hack the big time. A few more games of this and maybe we should be looking to bring in our poch equivalent and wave goodbye to Adkins mark 2. Edited August 31 by hypochondriac 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 I really didn’t like his post match interview. Already happy to throw players under the bus. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 I'll add it's too early to sack him but I'd certainly be considering it after another three or four games if we perform in the same manner with zero points. It could get really really embarrassing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloucester Saint Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said: I am absolutely, 100%, saying, after 3 games, sack him now. We have no chance of effectively implementing his Plan A, and he won’t compromise on his principles. Plus, he’s just seen fit to throw his players under the bus for implementing his ludicrous tactics. His starting lineup and tactics today were horrific. The club has invested a lot of money on players, but having him as manager is like starting with 9 players. I can’t see results improving. I get it and my emotions are similar but the optics with players we’ve just signed would be terrible and reminding me of signing Onachu and sacking Jones and Carrillo/Pellegrino. SR do need a serious chat with him about the tempo of play upping considerably now they have funded the CMs to do it and cutting out the defensive passing triangles or I think his job would be rightly at risk if he doesn’t make a serious attempt to adapt. We’re relegation favourites for a reason but we are going to break Derby’s low points record if the manager won’t adapt to the needs of the PL and the club, so even with moderate expectations, there has to be clear improvement in competitiveness and a much changed starting line up for the next few games featuring the new players. As home fans, we might need to reinforce that by being really encouraging positive and pragmatic play, but slow hand clapping the passing triangles. We will get some clog from the manager but it doesn’t matter. Edited August 31 by Gloucester Saint 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SambaMaverick Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 He's a likeable enough bloke but unfortunately he is living in cloud cuckoo land. Much more of that and the fans will turn and he won't be long for this league. Time to find a compromise over the international break 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Russell makes a big show out of being a progressive manager but he's actually very limited tactically. He shows little ability to make proactive changes or an ability to make changes on a game to game basis in order to get a result. Yes he had his flaws but Ralph was so much better as a manager that it's almost embarrassing. Martin is a decent championship manager but rather like Armstrong when he comes up against top quality opposition he gets found out. On this we do agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 3 minutes ago, LGTL said: I really didn’t like his post match interview. Already happy to throw players under the bus. I don’t mind that if it’s the players he’s been protecting all this time like Armstrong, Smallbone, Aribo and Capt. Jack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 The frustrating thing is that for all the chat about bravery he hasn't stayed true to himself this season. Negative setup - who plays with 3 CBs and 3 CMs? Not brave enough to decide which of the 3 CBs to leave out. Post game today he said he would have started with some of the players who were good on Wednesday but they played too many mins and the others had built up credit - not very brave either. Judging by post match comments at least he knows...I think he will go back to his preferred 4-3-3 and accept the risk we will be a bit more open and I think he will show his ruthless side and drop a few that were good last season but poor this. One thing for sure though - he won't change the style because he has been clear about that many, many times. He clearly deserves more time but his own performance this season so far has been pretty poor and he needs to learn fast. Already its probably 3 from about 5 teams who have a real chance of relegation and we are obviously more likely to go down than stay up anyway so we might as well play to the strengths we have rather than what we have seen so far. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Worth considering how we would have reacted to appointing Russell Martin when Hassanhuttl was sacked. It would have been laughed out the place, much like NJ was. Scraping a promotion by finishing 4th doesn’t change that unfortunately. Out of his depth. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 1 minute ago, beatlesaint said: I don’t mind that if it’s the players he’s been protecting all this time like Armstrong, Smallbone, Aribo and Capt. Jack The problem is he asks them to play in this way knowing they only just had the capability of doing so in the Championship. How Russ thinks they'll be able to play this way with the aggressive and relentless pressing of PL players is baffling. To throw them under the bus then is a bit cheap. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Martin: “We're going to stick with what we're doing. In five years of my career, it's got me this far. I will live and die by the sword, I know that, but I'd much rather do it this way and actually enjoy some of the moments the team gives me.” Martin: “When you make a mistake [playing] this way, everyone wants to talk about it. That's the context of what is normal and acceptable for British football, I guess.” Fuck me. You're being criticised because it's an idiotic way to play in this league. He's said though he isn't going to change so on a weird way at least he's put his cards on the table. I wonder if he will, be so stubborn after 6 losses in a row. What about 8? Because that's where it will head if we play this style. I think he has the potential to go seriously off the rails. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_SFC Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) 2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: Martin: “We're going to stick with what we're doing. In five years of my career, it's got me this far. I will live and die by the sword, I know that, but I'd much rather do it this way and actually enjoy some of the moments the team gives me.” Martin: “When you make a mistake [playing] this way, everyone wants to talk about it. That's the context of what is normal and acceptable for British football, I guess.” Fuck me. You're being criticised because it's an idiotic way to play in this league. He's said though he isn't going to change so on a weird way at least he's put his cards on the table. I wonder if he will, be so stubborn after 6 losses in a row. What about 8? Because that's where it will head if we play this style. I think he has the potential to go seriously off the rails. Yes and the noises coming from the club over the summer were that he won't be sacked regardless of performance this season - even if we go down. Tbf if we went down fighting and took it to the last game or so whilst playing decent football and actually competing in matches I don't think many people would be too critical. But the way things are going, we could be down quicker than 2 years ago and that was a complete shambles. Edited August 31 by Harry_SFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SambaMaverick Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Does he think he's getting brownie points from some unknown entity for playing this way? It's just weird 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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