Russell Martin

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Some of the Everton fans took their defeat at Spurs worse https://fanbanter.co.uk/video-emerges-of-everton-fans-abusing-their-own-players-after-arriving-back-from-tottenham-defeat/

...

Maybe I’m getting older and it’s just me but seeing blokes my age standing at a busy train station calling people a cunt is a bit tragic to my mind.

Back home...
Partner: What did you do this afternoon dear?
Fan: Went down the station.
Partner: Booking some tickets for us?
Fan: No. Got there an hour early to get the best position to shout obscenities at grown men!
Partner: I don't see any blood. Didn't they just punch you in the face?
Fan: No! They have to walk past and take it! Because we're fans, and they would get charged and sacked for retaliating.
Partner: You realise I'm fictional, as no one as pathetic as you could ever have a partner?
Fan: They aren't fit to sit in our amazing dug outs! Grrrrrrr!

[verlaine1979]

I'm curious as to how Martin arrived at his possession-first philosophy. If players like Alcaraz are being cut adrift because they lose the ball too often in the attacking third, where are the examples of managers who've thrived only through retention and off the ball movement? The lazy answer is that he's copying Guardiola, but that just isn't true. Guardiola's teams have always had players in both the middle and out wide who are trusted to try and beat their man and create overloads. If anything, he's become even more liberal about this in the last few years, giving Doku regular minutes despite his mixed end-product.

Edited August 26 by verlaine1979

[Harry_SFC]

1 hour ago, verlaine1979 said:

I'm curious as to how Martin arrived at his possession-first philosophy. If players like Alcaraz are being cut adrift because they lose the ball too often in the attacking third, where are the examples of managers who've thrived only through retention and off the ball movement? The lazy answer is that he's copying Guardiola, but that just isn't true. Guardiola's teams have always had players in both the middle and out wide who are trusted to try and beat their man and create overloads. If anything, he's become even more liberal about this in the last few years, giving Doku regular minutes despite his mixed end-product.

If you watch KDB he actually loses the ball fairly regularly, trying those through balls to Haaland. 

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Harry_SFC said:

If you watch KDB he actually loses the ball fairly regularly, trying those through balls to Haaland. 

KDB loses the ball being perhaps the greatest creative midfielder the PL has ever seen. He makes perhaps the greatest team the PL has ever seen tick, trying all sorts of audacious passes that most players, even at this level, wouldn’t even see.

Alcaraz just loses the ball hesitating in possession and making poor choices with his distribution. Everyone talks about him not suiting Russball, that’s not true. Getting mugged in possession on the halfway line doesn’t suit any bodies philosophy.

[verlaine1979]

There's nothing particularly unusual about attacking midfielders of below elite level getting the ball nicked off them in the middle of the park. Both Stuart Armstrong and Steven Davis lost the ball in those circumstances all the time leading to dangerous turnovers.

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

There's nothing particularly unusual about attacking midfielders of below elite level getting the ball nicked off them in the middle of the park. Both Stuart Armstrong and Steven Davis lost the ball in those circumstances all the time leading to dangerous turnovers.

If you continually discourage your midfield players to take risks and sell those that do, don't be surprised if you end up with a midfield of safe ball recyclers who create nothing - seems Russell is getting pretty close to his end goal.

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

If you continually discourage your midfield players to take risks and sell those that do, don't be surprised if you end up with a midfield of safe ball recyclers who create nothing - seems Russell is getting pretty close to his end goal.

This isn’t the case though. Russ hasn’t dropped him because he’s risk averse, he’s dropped in because he consistently puts in substandard performances. If the problem was Russ and his tactics, why has nobody else come in and snapped him away from us for such a bargain price? Why aren’t West Ham, Brighton and Palace all over him for that price?

[Maggie May]

I really do think it is going to click at some point. 

[danjosaint]

21 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

I really do think it is going to click at some point. 

What with SR that RM is out of his depth 

[hypochondriac]

50 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

I really do think it is going to click at some point. 

 

[egg]

1 hour ago, Maggie May said:

I really do think it is going to click at some point. 

All our play is in a horseshoe at the back and out wide so these tactics wouldn't click even if our opponents didn't play full backs. We can't be expected to score with a complete absence of a man in the middle up front, of forward balls, and an AM getting into the box.

Things will only change when RM changes his tactics, or we change RM. 

[Mr X]

3 hours ago, egg said:

All our play is in a horseshoe at the back and out wide so these tactics wouldn't click even if our opponents didn't play full backs. We can't be expected to score with a complete absence of a man in the middle up front, of forward balls, and an AM getting into the box.

Things will only change when RM changes his tactics, or we change RM. 

I don't think we will change RM regardless of wether we are bottom at Xmas, it seems the club are tied to his style and see it as the way forward! Shame that doesn't translate to getting forward on the actual pitch! 

[saintant]

11 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

This isn’t the case though. Russ hasn’t dropped him because he’s risk averse, he’s dropped in because he consistently puts in substandard performances. If the problem was Russ and his tactics, why has nobody else come in and snapped him away from us for such a bargain price? Why aren’t West Ham, Brighton and Palace all over him for that price?

Or it could be that Russ has his tactics wrong so Charley doesn't get much chance to showcase his talents. Also, he's far from the only player who gives the ball away cheaply, he has plenty of company. My point stands, Russ will end up with a bland midfield of ball recyclers unless he encourages more offensive pass and move and ball carrying plus getting between the lines.

[kitch]

On 26/08/2024 at 13:39, Topcat said:

The last time we were in the prem our biggest problem was the lack of scoring.  Same problem this season.  A shame that our Manager is distracted by a new girlfriend.

If that's not a joke, it's the stupidest thing I've ever read on here regarding RM. So he has a hot new g/f...you think he hasn't had one before? The only difference is you know who his g/f is because she's a 'famous' face. I'm sure plenty of the coaching staff and playing staff are enjoying the company of some tasty ladies, doesn't mean they can't do their job!
RM strikes me as a highly principled guy who, if it came to it, would sack off a love interest if they were coming between him and his job.

[Daft Kerplunk]

On 26/08/2024 at 13:39, Topcat said:

The last time we were in the prem our biggest problem was the lack of scoring.  Same problem this season.  A shame that our Manager is distracted by a new girlfriend.

I highly doubt this would distract him, might even fire him up more.  Like most managers and players, he was probably shagging members of the marketing or team staff too, getting your end away is hardly going to distract you from what is a reasonably uncomplicated job.  Even NASA pilots and technicians probably have sex.  We British do have a weird relationship with sex and the idea of it.    

Edited August 27 by Daft Kerplunk

[Dusic]

Don't see the need of some get quite personal about a guy who gave many one of their very best days as a Saints fan.

Did he get the setup wrong vs Forest? Yes, and I am sure he realises that and will adapt.

Afterall, he adapted at the end of last season to very good effect.

Its going to be tough this season, because the PL is hard, ruthless and probably this is one of the strongest years - we have not got the cash others do so rightly started as favourites to go back down. We will lose lots of games so overly hysterical and personal reactions to one result are pretty pointless.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

5 hours ago, saintant said:

My point stands, Russ will end up with a bland midfield of ball recyclers unless he encourages more offensive pass and move and ball carrying plus getting between the lines.

 Exactly. RM's theory of passing it out from the back isn't the problem. The problem is the speed we do it and what happens once the initial press is broken. Practically every time we broke that initial press on Saturday, Aribo & Smallbone passed it back again except this time our defenders had an attacker standing next to them ready to pounce. I get that you don't want midfielders losing the ball when nearly all the opposition team is in your half, but they have to be able to turn on the ball and look to go forwards not backwards. 

I'm hoping Les and Fernandes will make a big difference.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’m fully in the “dont give the ball away camp” was brought up playing like that & fully bought into it watching. Played CF for many years, at about Wessex league level (didn’t exist then), not great but a step above pub football. I’ve had ex pros fucking dig into me for giving it away, been substituted (in the days of one sub) for giving it away cheaply, so it’s been drummed into me for 50 fucking years. 
 

The massive difference was we were only talking about 2/3 of the pitch, when you got in and around the box you were expected to try things and make things happen. That’s what every pro side did.  If the full back or winger got a yard, he whipped it in, he didn’t recycle the fucking thing inside. Nobody ever got a bollocking for giving the ball away in the final third. I’ve no problem with keeping it, in areas we need to keep it (which doesn’t include our box), keeping it to move up the pitch. But fuck me, we play safe around their area as well. 

What really boils my piss is we have midfield & attacking  players obsessed with not giving it away, and centre halves & keepers doing just that with kamikaze mincing about. Possession based football, my arse. Bally was one of the best short passers of a football I ever saw, yet he wouldn’t be attempting passes we want AM & Jan fucking Bednarek to make in and around our own box. Madness….

[sadoldgit]

21 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’m fully in the “dont give the ball away camp” was brought up playing like that & fully bought into it watching. Played CF for many years, at about Wessex league level (didn’t exist then), not great but a step above pub football. I’ve had ex pros fucking dig into me for giving it away, been substituted (in the days of one sub) for giving it away cheaply, so it’s been drummed into me for 50 fucking years. 
 

The massive difference was we were only talking about 2/3 of the pitch, when you got in and around the box you were expected to try things and make things happen. That’s what every pro side did.  If the full back or winger got a yard, he whipped it in, he didn’t recycle the fucking thing inside. Nobody ever got a bollocking for giving the ball away in the final third. I’ve no problem with keeping it, in areas we need to keep it (which doesn’t include our box), keeping it to move up the pitch. But fuck me, we play safe around their area as well. 

What really boils my piss is we have midfield & attacking  players obsessed with not giving it away, and centre halves & keepers doing just that with kamikaze mincing about. Possession based football, my arse. Bally was one of the best short passers of a football I ever saw, yet he wouldn’t be attempting passes we want AM & Jan fucking Bednarek to make in and around our own box. Madness….

Out of interest, how many times did you get sent off for using foul and abusive language?

Edited August 28 by sadoldgit
Typo

[Kermitzasaint]

On 27/08/2024 at 06:17, Lighthouse said:

This isn’t the case though. Russ hasn’t dropped him because he’s risk averse, he’s dropped in because he consistently puts in substandard performances. If the problem was Russ and his tactics, why has nobody else come in and snapped him away from us for such a bargain price? Why aren’t West Ham, Brighton and Palace all over him for that price?

Tbh maybe he loses possession because no one else pushes up to support him. Almost as if the reason we can't see the best of him is because everyone else is playing Russball. 

I'm still waiting to see if RM actually improves any of our players as some fans claim he has. 

[Weston Super Saint]

4 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Out of interest, how many times did you get sent off for using foul or offensive language?

He said he played football, not fucking netball.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Perhaps somebody can explain this to me, because it’s baffled me since Lego arrived. 
 

If mincing around at the back & in midfield was the way to bring opponents on to us, to then play through their press, and if keeping the ball & recycling it is the be all and end all of the game. Why do we hoof it into the channel from kick off? 
 

Every kick off it goes backwards & then is hoofed forward. If knocking it long to  battle for the loose ball is ok from kick off, why can’t our keeper do the same from goal kicks? 
 

 

[Mr X]

Can we have a poll for who finds Martin's style of football entertaining and affective? 

[Lighthouse]

I think tonight should prove Martin’s point regarding players like Edozie. He hasn’t been dropped for daring to pass the ball forwards, he’s got no end product. Off target passes, played at the wrong time, that’s why he doesn’t start.

[Tommy Mulgrew]

Where has last season’s Gio1saints gone, you know, the one who would defend Martin against all the evidence to the contrary?  It’s just not the same on here reading all this criticism of our esteemed manager. I cannot quite get my head round it.  Who will now defend slow, ponderous Russball against our almost universal desire to see fast, attacking football?  Genuine question.

Confused.com.

5 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Why have you, in both example formations placed forwards in the penalty area (indeed in your second formation there are TWO! )

This is quite clearly discussed and trained relentlessly in practice. No standing in the penalty area. It’s like five a sides no stepping in the penalty area. How on earth can saints be expected to break the World Record for most passes without a shot on target if you put someone in the penalty area - clearly we will be overrun in midfield and there’s no chance of beating that “ most passes without a shot on target” Guinness Book of Records metric (MPWASOT for those in the biz). 

 

 

4 hours ago, gio1saints said:

I don’t think we are going to win the league. Based on this Transfer window. BUT we might win most passes without a goal/ shot on target. And in my opinion these categories of achievement have been chronically undervalued. When you look at who they vote for Premier League Manager of the Year I bet you they don’t look at crucial data like that- wether or not we get Cornet or Wee Man back in the team. 

“If I was Brentford after watching Saints v forest I might be tempted to play with a keeper, 2 full backs, 1 CB (he can chat to the keeper if he gets bored and lonely)  4 MF’s and 3 attackers.

The ball is not going anywhere near the penalty spot is it so just push up. The not so secret plan is to Wait for the inevitable passing around the six yard box fuck up and take it from there.”  
 

Edited August 30 by Tommy Mulgrew
Added another gio quote.

[gio1saints]

It’s occurred to me that Russell Martin is being softly marketed by SR as a golden hen coach. 

Players, especially young players, who have been trained by RM and his team are not just standard players. They have the ( marketing spiel) “added value” of being fully immersed in total, absolute hardcore, PB football.
Just like certain Managers have become renowned for a certain style of play - Bielsa is a good example - Brand RM is for anyone out there wants a player who has certain automatic ball possession, physical capability, footballing courage & IQ and on field positional awareness characteristics ( to name but a few required to play PB football the way RM wants). 
 

SR want saints to win - but it’s certainly another money spinner if RM becomes renowned as a good teacher. He has not earned that accolade yet, but seems to me SR very much hoping he does cos even if we lose they win by the inflated fees the RM trained players may command. 

Edited August 31 by gio1saints

[Patches O Houlihan]

49 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

It’s occurred to me that Russell Martin is being softly marketed by SR as a golden hen coach. 

Players, especially young players, who have been trained by RM and his team are not just standard players. They have the ( marketing spiel) “added value” of being fully immersed in total, absolute hardcore, PB football.
Just like certain Managers have become renowned for a certain style of play - Bielsa is a good example - Brand RM is for anyone out there wants a player who has certain automatic ball possession, physical capability, footballing courage & IQ and on field positional awareness characteristics ( to name but a few required to play PB football the way RM wants). 
 

SR want saints to win - but it’s certainly another money spinner if RM becomes renowned as a good teacher. He has not earned that accolade yet, but seems to me SR very much hoping he does cos even if we lose they win by the inflated fees the RM trained players may command. 

I can see that being a thing. Good spot

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

It’s occurred to me that Russell Martin is being softly marketed by SR as a golden hen coach. 

Players, especially young players, who have been trained by RM and his team are not just standard players. They have the ( marketing spiel) “added value” of being fully immersed in total, absolute hardcore, PB football.
Just like certain Managers have become renowned for a certain style of play - Bielsa is a good example - Brand RM is for anyone out there wants a player who has certain automatic ball possession, physical capability, footballing courage & IQ and on field positional awareness characteristics ( to name but a few required to play PB football the way RM wants). 
 

SR want saints to win - but it’s certainly another money spinner if RM becomes renowned as a good teacher. He has not earned that accolade yet, but seems to me SR very much hoping he does cos even if we lose they win by the inflated fees the RM trained players may command. 

What a load of old bollocks. If we ended up doing a Sheffield United this season then no one will want most of those players on our books. Bielsa went through a difficult period at Leeds and they sacked him off despite his reputation. Martin and his methods are completely unproven and no one will be in demand until he shows he can have any success in this league. 

[gio1saints]

Ah. I’m sorry. I did not realise you own the talking bollocks franchise on here. Duly noted. 

[trousers]

12 hours ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

Where has last season’s Gio1saints gone, you know, the one who would defend Martin against all the evidence to the contrary?  It’s just not the same on here reading all this criticism of our esteemed manager. I cannot quite get my head round it.

I think 'he' may be suffering from Charlie Wayman posting syndrome...

[gio1saints]

7 minutes ago, trousers said:

I think 'he' may be suffering from Charlie Wayman posting syndrome...

I think Russell is great. A fucking great big breath of fresh air. He is the best fun Manager we’ve had since Strachan and I’m hoping his brand of football- with Saints- becomes revered around the world. 
I reserve the right to exercise my sense of humour and parody him though should he continue to play the U formation with no attacking allowed or that Russian Roulette 4 passes to the goalie per match in his 6 yard box game rule he has insisted upon ( that’s not true btw). 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

I think Russell is great. A fucking great big breath of fresh air. He is the best fun Manager we’ve had since Strachan and I’m hoping his brand of football- with Saints- becomes revered around the world. 
I reserve the right to exercise my sense of humour and parody him though should he continue to play the U formation with no attacking allowed or that Russian Roulette 4 passes to the goalie per match in his 6 yard box game rule he has insisted upon ( that’s not true btw). 

 

Really?

His style of football is as soporific as any that we’ve ever had to suffer. You must have a strange idea of what counts for ‘fun’.

[West end Saints]

I love his football, best for years - when it works. Some games we are shit, too slow etc. but the quality of movement, passing , making opponents chase shadows is great.

Since he has been here it has worked more than it hasn't.

When we play badly, and team lack energy, too slow or cautious etc the style always gets blamed (and is a factor). But we have always had bad games.

Hope he has enough success to be here a long time.

[gio1saints]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Really?

His style of football is as soporific as any that we’ve ever had to suffer. You must have a strange idea of what counts for ‘fun’.

I was more referring to his sense of humour and banter value apparent with his players. 

[sfc4prem]

4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Really?

His style of football is as soporific as any that we’ve ever had to suffer. You must have a strange idea of what counts for ‘fun’.

Soporific? At times, yeh, when the opposition nullify and we can't break their lines. When it works and the players play the system effectively, I'd argue the quick movement and incisive passing isn't at all soporific.

[gio1saints]

17 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Really?

His style of football is as soporific as any that we’ve ever had to suffer. You must have a strange idea of what counts for ‘fun’.

Separate answer on that though : I previously was involved in managing world class professional athletes. 

One thing I enjoyed (and was surprised at) was how different there characters could be out of competition. 

Some of them relished absolutely destroying opponents - and some in particular actually loved to grind them into pieces. But out of competition pleasant as you like.
 

With the way Saints make the opposition run I recognise an element of comparable brutality there - I think RM is absolutely ruthless and literally wants his opponents to be weeping piles of sweat at match end having been beasted for 100 minutes chasing chasing chasing his players, fruitlessly. 

Many Saints fans see him as not that - and all that endless passing irks - then add in his vegetarianism and Buddhist beliefs and they take a dislike. But oh no- the bloke is super tough & has the courage to appear vulnerable. A big man indeed and a worthy leader. 

Edited August 31 by gio1saints

[gio1saints]

17 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

Soporific? At times, yeh, when the opposition nullify and we can't break their lines. When it works and the players play the system effectively, I'd argue the quick movement and incisive passing isn't at all soporific.

Quite. Sam’s goal v Cardiff was a thing of startling beauty. And we have scored a fair few of those. Adam Armstrongs Winner at Wembley being the ultimate example of what that soporific pass pass game can deliver. I think Ive seen more beautiful goals in one season last year than in last ten previous. If that’s what soporific gives then I’m all in for it. 

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, gio1saints said:

It’s occurred to me that Russell Martin is being softly marketed by SR as a golden hen coach. 

Players, especially young players, who have been trained by RM and his team are not just standard players. They have the ( marketing spiel) “added value” of being fully immersed in total, absolute hardcore, PB football.
Just like certain Managers have become renowned for a certain style of play - Bielsa is a good example - Brand RM is for anyone out there wants a player who has certain automatic ball possession, physical capability, footballing courage & IQ and on field positional awareness characteristics ( to name but a few required to play PB football the way RM wants). 
 

SR want saints to win - but it’s certainly another money spinner if RM becomes renowned as a good teacher. He has not earned that accolade yet, but seems to me SR very much hoping he does cos even if we lose they win by the inflated fees the RM trained players may command. 

Jesus wept.

There is a list a mile long of managers who have managed to get a team promoted from the Championship. At elite level it's not that special.

Russell Martin needs to do a hell of a lot more before he becomes a managerial "brand" in the way you're babbling about.

 

Edited August 31 by CB Fry

[Gloucester Saint]

38 minutes ago, West end Saints said:

I love his football, best for years - when it works. Some games we are shit, too slow etc. but the quality of movement, passing , making opponents chase shadows is great.

Since he has been here it has worked more than it hasn't.

When we play badly, and team lack energy, too slow or cautious etc the style always gets blamed (and is a factor). But we have always had bad games.

Hope he has enough success to be here a long time.

As long as we move the ball quicker, the style can work but it has to have the right players to be effective. I can see the rationale behind the Fernandes signing now and a midfield of him, Flynn and Lesley with Will and Aribo for competition will probably suit it better and help beat the press which Russell has struggled with a bit.

With the front line we now have, there’s times when we need to mix it up and hit the likes of BBD, AA, Cornet and Archer quicker. Russell did it well towards the end of the season and those players need through balls as they play on the shoulder of defenders. If it can be the element of surprise, even better as it doesn’t allow opponents to get set in the way Newcastle and Forest have thus far.

[Whitey Grandad]

34 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Separate answer on that though : I previously was involved in managing world class professional athletes. 

One thing I enjoyed (and was surprised at) was how different there characters could be out of competition. 

Some of them relished absolutely destroying opponents - and some in particular actually loved to grind them into pieces. But out of competition pleasant as you like.
 

With the way Saints make the opposition run I recognise an element of comparable brutality there - I think RM is absolutely ruthless and literally wants his opponents to be weeping piles of sweat at match end having been beasted for 100 minutes chasing chasing chasing his players, fruitlessly. 

Many Saints fans see him as not that - and all that endless passing irks - then add in his vegetarianism and Buddhist beliefs and they take a dislike. But oh no- the bloke is super tough & has the courage to appear vulnerable. A big man indeed and a worthy leader. 

But the opposition doesn’t have to run about chasing shadows. Apart from leaving a couple up front the rest of them can relax knowing that they’re not going to be overwhelmed. With five substitutes the front players can be swapped for fresh ones after thirty minutes.

[Patches O Houlihan]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

But the opposition doesn’t have to run about chasing shadows. Apart from leaving a couple up front the rest of them can relax knowing that they’re not going to be overwhelmed. With five substitutes the front players can be swapped for fresh ones after thirty minutes.

Remember how Ralph's team used to give away goals endlessly in the last 10 minutes because they had been chasing the ball all game? Yes - that.

Maybe not against the top teams, but against the bottom ten who are realistically who we need to beat, it is definitely a thing

[gio1saints]

17 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Jesus wept.

There is a list a mile long of managers who have managed to get a team promoted from the Championship. At elite level it's not that special.

Russell Martin needs to do a hell of a lot more before he becomes a managerial "brand" in the way you're babbling about.

 

I agree. He needs to do a lot more. That’s why I said he’s not there yet. 

[gio1saints]

5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

But the opposition doesn’t have to run about chasing shadows. Apart from leaving a couple up front the rest of them can relax knowing that they’re not going to be overwhelmed. With five substitutes the front players can be swapped for fresh ones after thirty minutes.

Very Valid counter argument. The five subs thing especially.
 

But we did happen to make a feature of scoring late goals last year and it was arguably not coincidental to our soporific style of play. 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

31 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Very Valid counter argument. The five subs thing especially.
 

But we did happen to make a feature of scoring late goals last year and it was arguably not coincidental to our soporific style of play. 

 

That was last year though.

[AlexLaw76]

I suspect he will do well to surpass Nathan Jones' Premier League record.

What a stubborn and pretty naive manager he is

[Wade Garrett]

Sack him today and give the new manager a bit of time over the international break.

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, gio1saints said:

think RM is absolutely ruthless and literally wants his opponents to be weeping piles of sweat at match end having been beasted for 100 minutes chasing chasing chasing his players, fruitlessly

The only people weeping  are the  fucking Saints fans. 

[CB Fry]

4 hours ago, gio1saints said:

I agree. He needs to do a lot more. That’s why I said he’s not there yet. 

That is nowhere near what the post I replied to is saying.

Read it back, absolute pie in the sky.

You don’t get to say any old bullshit and then caveat it with “oh he’s not there yet”.

He’s nothing yet. Just one of an armful of coaches who have been promoted to the Championship. 

Edited August 31 by CB Fry

[AlexLaw76]

He needs to be relieved of his duties asap

[Kaiser Soze]

Useless cunt