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Russell Martin

LegalEagle

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Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

 

Incredibly short sighted by the club and will potentially (likley) come back to bite us on the arse. 

We've absolutely no idea how we will do in the PL and his / the clubs 'success' was acheiving the bare minimum expected...  

Why would you not wait 6 months and assess in December. 

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CSA96

CSA96

Posted
Posted (edited)

Why would it bite you on the arse?

If you have to sack a manager, you have to sack a manager. What would bite you on the arse is if you didn't renegotiate his terms, he does well and then you lose him for bugger all to someone else or you have to go through a season of 'your contract is up at the end of this season' chat in every press conf.

Edited by CSA96
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Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Dman said:

Incredibly short sighted by the club and will potentially (likley) come back to bite us on the arse. 

We've absolutely no idea how we will do in the PL and his / the clubs 'success' was acheiving the bare minimum expected...  

Why would you not wait 6 months and assess in December. 

No sorry. Lots of clubs go down and don't come back up. Contrary to popular belief, we didn't have anywhere near the best squad in the league. Why aren't Leeds fans calling for Farke's head despite not going up and probably having a better (if not as good as) squad than us? Russ' objective was the simpliest of any Saints manager ever IMO; Get us up and you've succeeded. Keep us down and you've failed. He's succeeded and that deserves to be recognised just like his failure would have done if we hadn't been promoted. This is just like every every single thing he said or did that didn't work was called out and he was branded a "clown" but when it did work, it was just "WELL HE FINALLY GOT IT RIGHT" or worse "IT JUST PAPERS OVER THE CRACKS". At the aboluslte worst, he's done a 7/10 job. 

The reason that we aren't waiting until December - Because if we came up, stormed the league and were somehow in the top 6 at this point (you do get newly promoted teams doing it from time to time though they tend to fall off in the latter half of the season), and a big club had come in for him, paid whatever Championship finance based release clause was there it'd be "WHY DID WE NOT GIVE HIM A NEW CONTRACT TO PROTECT US FROM THIS?! NO AMBITION FROM THE BOARD!!!"

No idea why but Russ has been hated from day one for the simple crime of not being perfect and when (unlike other football managers most notably one Nathan Jones) he actually owns his mistakes and says during pressers stuff like "I should have brought him on earlier actually..." THAT'S wrong. People say football managers get paid too much, for the crap they have to deal with and the thousands of people that are ready to pounce on them and demand they "Do the right thing and resign" after making a few mistakes, they don't get paid enough.

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West end Saints

West end Saints

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Dman said:

Incredibly short sighted by the club and will potentially (likley) come back to bite us on the arse. 

We've absolutely no idea how we will do in the PL and his / the clubs 'success' was acheiving the bare minimum expected...  

Why would you not wait 6 months and assess in December. 

Expected by you? Because you had confidence in him?

Most relegated clubs do not go straight back up.

Usually one does.

Any team who finished bottom, and as far a drift as us is not likely to go straight back up.

Teams can improve their chances by investing due to a takeover etc, we had the opposite, we lost a lot of talented players.

Just because you knew he would completely turn the team spirit and attitude around, build strong unit and improve players and therefore did as you expected, it doesn't diminish his achievement .

He did very well and is understandably and rightly being rewarded.

Edited by West end Saints
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Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, West end Saints said:

Expected by you? Because you had confidence in him?

Most relegated clubs do not go straight back up.

Usually one does.

Any team who finished bottom, and as far a drift as us is not likely to go straight back up.

Teams can improve their chances by investing due to a takeover etc, we had the opposite, we lost a lot of talented players.

Just because you knew he would completely turn the team spirit and attitude around, build strong unit and improve players and therefore did as you expected, it doesn't diminish his achievement .

He did very well and is understandably and rightly being rewarded.

I think it's just so that people can save eating humble pie with their "We have no chance of being promoted under this clown" comments most of last season. So that instead of saying "Yeah he's proven me totally wrong and I'll try and remember this in future when things aren't going brilliantly" they can go "Err...Erm...Well...Yeah but he...He nearly DIDN'T do it...So there...I was ALMOST not wrong".

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gio1saints

gio1saints

Posted
Posted

I think what @Dman is saying ( although you’ve never been a fan it’s fair to say) is that “paying up” RM’s contract at Xmas because he’s fxxcked up and we need sack him and get a new leader will cost less without a big new pay rise and contract extension.

It’s obviously cheaper if he’s on the same deal and contract as he was when he joined us in the Championship. 

Alluring but shallow thinking that is imo.  True in one narrow sense - but untrue in the real world where a manager leading team to EPL promotion more often than not gets a ( deserved) contract review. 

In any case what if his original contract terms say he would get that review if we went up irrespective? 

From saints pov if we are doing ok and a wealthier club comes in and tries to headhunt him- we get a bigger fee if he left because of the foresight in improving the contract. If we are not and sacking is the best option I don’t think the extra compensation required would out balance the need for a new capo. So, no, not short sighted. Actually normal and fair to reward and motivate the guy for his success. Not demotivate him by refusing. 

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Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, CSA96 said:

Why would it bite you on the arse?

If you have to sack a manager, you have to sack a manager. What would bite you on the arse is if you didn't renegotiate his terms, he does well and then you lose him for bugger all to someone else or you have to go through a season of 'your contract is up at the end of this season' chat in every press conf.

He wasn't signed on a 2 year deal though, was he - so that is a bit of an irrelevant argument.  

2 hours ago, goodymatt said:

He’s earned a new deal by getting us promoted at the first time of asking. I agree with @CSA96, logical move.

He was brought in to get us promotion - that was the target. 

We had the 3rd best squad in teh leauge, and we effectively finished 3rd. Minimum  expected imo. 

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Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted

Signed last year on a 3 year deal, ending 2026.

New one is a 3 year deal, ending 2027.

A good length for all parties, regardless of what happens.

No doubt with upticks on rewards for PL deliverables too.

Sensible .

If we go down like Burnley, it's more compensation for PSG to pay us. 🙂

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SaintsLoyal

SaintsLoyal

Posted
Posted (edited)

Well hes not going to be on Championship wages for the PL, so a new contract with more money was obvious and we dont need  the scum at the athletic to state the obvious.

Edited by SaintsLoyal
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CSA96

CSA96

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Dman said:

He wasn't signed on a 2 year deal though, was he - so that is a bit of an irrelevant argument.  

He was brought in to get us promotion - that was the target. 

We had the 3rd best squad in teh leauge, and we effectively finished 3rd. Minimum  expected imo. 

So in an ordinary job with a bonus structure etc, if you were told 'these are your targets' and you hit all of your targets for the year, including the main one, which netted your employer a huge financial windfall - you would then expect not to get the bonus/pay rise? Ok.

They've basically just refreshed his deal. Replaced the one year that's expired and then given him a pay rise, while boosting any potential compensation if another club decided to take him. That is totally prudent from Parsons etc and suggests we actually have some sensible decision makers nowadays.

Edited by CSA96
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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

So in an ordinary job with a bonus structure etc, if you were told 'these are your targets' and you hit all of your targets for the year, including the main one, which netted your employer a huge financial windfall - you would then expect not to get the bonus/pay rise? Ok.

They've basically just refreshed his deal. Replaced the one year that's expired and then given him a pay rise, while boosting any potential compensation if another club decided to take him. That is totally prudent from Parsons etc and suggests we actually have some sensible decision makers nowadays.

Absolutely this, it's not as if we're about to offer him a 6 year contract. It's just a fair reflection of the targets being hit and and like you say, you'd expect a bonus upon that. Keeps everyone committed and happy and doesn't tie us into anything monster-length.

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Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Dman said:

Incredibly short sighted by the club and will potentially (likley) come back to bite us on the arse. 

We've absolutely no idea how we will do in the PL and his / the clubs 'success' was acheiving the bare minimum expected...  

Why would you not wait 6 months and assess in December. 

Agree, might be a bit premature for a new contract as we might need to consider a change after 10 games or so. I’d have preferred the review at some point before Christmas, possibly October international break.

Strangely though I’ve a hunch RM might do quite well and attract a fair bit of praise (from the media anyway) at this level. 

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Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CSA96 said:

 That is totally prudent from Parsons etc and suggests we actually have some sensible decision makers nowadays.

Not sure how prudent it is extending the contract* of a manager unproven at this level. 

Same might have been said about the second contract extension agreed with Forster, in ‘protecting the value of our asset’.  
 

*(not that we know the terms of it of course)

Edited by Badger
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CSA96

CSA96

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Badger said:

Not sure how prudent it is extending the contract* of a manager unproven at this level. 

Same might have been said about the second contract extension agreed with Forster, in ‘protecting the value of our asset’.  
 

*(not that we know the terms of it of course)

Yes but you can sack the manager, Saints couldn't/weren't going to sack Forster. And they are extending his deal by one year. Not four or five.

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ErwinK1961

ErwinK1961

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Dman said:

He wasn't signed on a 2 year deal though, was he - so that is a bit of an irrelevant argument.  

He was brought in to get us promotion - that was the target. 

We had the 3rd best squad in teh leauge, and we effectively finished 3rd. Minimum  expected imo. 

😂 are you going to pretend that you didn’t spend the whole season saying how Martin was never going to get us promoted?

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Osvaldorama

Osvaldorama

Posted
Posted (edited)

I’m really happy. 
 

He’s a top bloke, I’m glad he’s here for longer. 
 

He deserves the deal, he deserves more time and I hope he is a massive success. 
People forget how young he is. I am sure he has learned a lot from last season and will bring some new ideas into next season. 
 

It will be a tough season regardless of who is managed so we just have to back him as much as possible imo. 

Edited by Osvaldorama
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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted

Doesn't mean a lot, apart from a Premier League pay rise for him which he deserves, he's done it.

If we're badly adrift come Bonfire Night he'll still get sacked.

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bpsaint

bpsaint

Posted
Posted

Some stability on the managerial front would be nice for a change, so if the club see Russ as the man to take us up again if we go down next season I won’t be too upset at that. 
 

Would rather stick with Russ regardless of how we do instead of pressing the panic button and bringing in another, or has been seen before, another 2 managers next season in a desperate attempt to survive.

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gio1saints

gio1saints

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, bpsaint said:

Some stability on the managerial front would be nice for a change, so if the club see Russ as the man to take us up again if we go down next season I won’t be too upset at that. 
 

Would rather stick with Russ regardless of how we do instead of pressing the panic button and bringing in another, or has been seen before, another 2 managers next season in a desperate attempt to survive.

100% agree. This sack the Manager game - sometimes twice or three times in a season - is like a cancer .

It kills player, young manager and English football development in general.  

IF we are getting torn to shreds every week and IF there is no response and IF the team and Manager has lost its heart I get it.
BUTif Saints are playing attractive, competitive football - yet getting beat more than win or draw & showing signs of improving and yeah even if we are bottom three of league at Xmas that is probably the most likely narrative of the season and where I expect us to be. If so it’s not a sackable offence - it’s pretty much expected. 

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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

100% agree. This sack the Manager game - sometimes twice or three times in a season - is like a cancer .

It kills player, young manager and English football development in general.  

IF we are getting torn to shreds every week and IF there is no response and IF the team and Manager has lost its heart I get it.
BUTif Saints are playing attractive, competitive football - yet getting beat more than win or draw & showing signs of improving and yeah even if we are bottom three of league at Xmas that is probably the most likely narrative of the season and where I expect us to be. If so it’s not a sackable offence - it’s pretty much expected. 

Stop being cancerous 

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sfc4prem

sfc4prem

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Some stability on the managerial front would be nice for a change, so if the club see Russ as the man to take us up again if we go down next season I won’t be too upset at that. 
 

Would rather stick with Russ regardless of how we do instead of pressing the panic button and bringing in another, or has been seen before, another 2 managers next season in a desperate attempt to survive.

Agreed

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notnowcato

notnowcato

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Some stability on the managerial front would be nice for a change, so if the club see Russ as the man to take us up again if we go down next season I won’t be too upset at that. 
 

Would rather stick with Russ regardless of how we do instead of pressing the panic button and bringing in another, or has been seen before, another 2 managers next season in a desperate attempt to survive.

This, in spades. 
 

Really happy he’s signing a new contract. 

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SNSUN

SNSUN

Posted
Posted

I'm actually pleased he's signed a new contract and I hope he's a success this season. Clearly the club see him as a long term solution and stability. It makes me wonder if we'll do a Burnley/Kompany and keep him whatever the results this season. 

I still think Russ reminds me of Jeebs from Men in Black.

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Harry_SFC

Harry_SFC

Posted
Posted

Personally I would've liked us to asses how we get on in the first 5-6 months but I totally understand that Martin deserves it. At the end of the day he's got us promoted at the first time of asking. 

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Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

Posted
Posted
Just now, hypochondriac said:

Probably a positive but if we are rooted to the bottom of the league at Christmas, people will be clamouring for a change. 

You overestimate the patience of our fanbase. We could win the first 12 games without letting in a goal and people will be clamouring for a change because as soon as a dodgy corner is conceded.

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Saint Matty 76

Saint Matty 76

Posted
Posted

And only the most depressing of you would argue that it isn’t deserved.

Forget the crying about increased pay-off’s if it actually happens, but for now he did all we could’ve asked and made me excited to go to football again. Also adapted when it mattered and provided me with my favourite day as a fan at Wembley.

Let’s hope he can adapt again where necessary, because we know it will be.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted

I visited the Burnley forum the other day and was surprised at the vitriol against Kompany. They were really slating him for last season, I'd have thought he would be well regarded there despite relegation but clearly not. 

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Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

You overestimate the patience of our fanbase. We could win the first 12 games without letting in a goal and people will be clamouring for a change because as soon as a dodgy corner is conceded.

Why wait 12 games? Pre season friendlies are now places to get a good clamour in. 🙂

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  • Lighthouse changed the title to Russell Martin - Official: Signs contract to 2027
CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

You overestimate the patience of our fanbase. We could win the first 12 games without letting in a goal and people will be clamouring for a change because as soon as a dodgy corner is conceded.

He'd be the Chelsea manager by Christmas if he wins 12 straight games.

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manji

manji

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Probably a positive but if we are rooted to the bottom of the league at Christmas, people will be clamouring for a change. 

I would imagine if we only manage a draw the first some will be clamouring for a change.

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manji

manji

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Why wait 12 games? Pre season friendlies are now places to get a good clamour in. 🙂

Of course and that did happen “ if we play like this we are getting relegated “ 

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Dusic

Dusic

Posted
Posted

Patience definitely required because ultimately it is very difficult to stay up as a newly promoted side. Chopping and changing won't help and we will be recruiting to play his way so clamouring for change after a couple of defeats won't help anyone.

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Saint Fan CaM

Saint Fan CaM

Posted
Posted
On 02/07/2024 at 18:07, Dusic said:

Patience definitely required because ultimately it is very difficult to stay up as a newly promoted side. Chopping and changing won't help and we will be recruiting to play his way so clamouring for change after a couple of defeats won't help anyone.

This…

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  • Lighthouse changed the title to Russell Martin

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