S-Clarke Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Yeah, there's zero point in dropping and running at this stage. Give him till the end, when the inevitable happens that's when you cut and run. It does feel a bit like dragging out the inevitable though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) I wouldn't trust our lot not to stick with him next season when we fail the playoffs miserably Edited April 27 by Mr X 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Hope to fuck he’s not our manager next season. Same deficiencies today as all season. Nothing done to remedy them. Poor manager who doesn’t deserve his payoff. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Cunning Stunts Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 9 minutes ago, Mr X said: I wouldn't trust our lot not to stick with him next season when we fail the playoffs miserably That is the worry. They did it with Ralph - one season too many for him. Even if they get rid of the mug, we will just get another looney in anyway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said: That is the worry. They did it with Ralph - one season too many for him. Even if they get rid of the mug, we will just get another looney in anyway I'd like to see us be a bit ambitious with our managerial appointments. Weirdly we were more ambitious with our 'transfer guru' signings rather than our managers. We've ended up with Jones, Selles and Martin - none of those were ambitious, easy and cheap choices in the main. I'd like to see us grab a manager that we can sit up and say...''yeah, good appointment''. ''I like what he's done in the past''. Carlos Corberan is someone I rate highly at this level, Danny Rohl as well clearly has something about him, Mark Robbins is another who many fancy a change, Will Still seems to want to manage in England - there's 4 potential ambitious appointments for next season if things pan out as it looks. We all said in the summer that this was our most important managerial appointment, so I don't hold much hope in them getting anything right if they have to choose again. They'll go for what they think is the clever and left field option, and it's just an unnecessary gamble. Edited April 27 by S-Clarke 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarvSFC Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Our last two appointments finish the 2023-24 season in 16th and 17th position in League One. Ankersen sure does have an eye for talent. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 9 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: I'd like to see us be a bit ambitious with our managerial appointments. Weirdly we were more ambitious with our 'transfer guru' signings rather than our managers. We've ended up with Jones, Selles and Martin - none of those were ambitious, easy and cheap choices in the main. I'd like to see us grab a manager that we can sit up and say...''yeah, good appointment''. ''I like what he's done in the past''. Carlos Corberan is someone I rate highly at this level, Danny Rohl as well clearly has something about him, Mark Robbins is another who many fancy a change, Will Still seems to want to manage in England - there's 4 potential ambitious appointments for next season if things pan out as it looks. We all said in the summer that this was our most important managerial appointment, so I don't hold much hope in them getting anything right if they have to choose again. They'll go for what they think is the clever and left field option, and it's just an unnecessary gamble. Incredible. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 What happened to this “only the players who want this will be picked” bullshit then? Looked the same bunch to me, no young players given any experience in a dead game, same old same old. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: Incredible. Go on then genius, name some realistic names. Edited April 27 by S-Clarke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 For such a remarkable season, of our maximum possible points total (87), we would have been promoted automatically 5 times out of the last 20 years. Of those 5, 3 of which would have seen promotion with the points total if we fail to win at leeds.....which is likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 18 minutes ago, S-Clarke said: Go on then genius, name some realistic names. You've named fads rather than ambitious managers. I think Martin's record would stand up against any of those, so him. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee On Solent Saint Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 9 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: You've named fads rather than ambitious managers. I think Martin's record would stand up against any of those, so him. Real genuine question, but what do you actually see in Martin? Or are you just on the wind up? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkbeard Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: You've named fads rather than ambitious managers. I think Martin's record would stand up against any of those, so him. What record does Martin have exactly other than making teams worse and wasting the ability available to him? Swansea suffered through his "process" for two years. It seems like most Saints fans cottoned onto his nonsense far quicker than a lot of ours did, but even your club has the gullible types who buy into his bullshit far more easily than most. Edited April 27 by Forkbeard Change of wording 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarehamSaintJames Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 The big question is who comes in to replace him when we don’t get past Norwich in the play-offs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osvaldorama Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Someone with some actual experience of getting promoted out of the championship. And FFS do not tell me there isn’t anyone available. There are fucking loads. The club just wanted to go with a hipster option because Rasmus thinks he can reinvent football 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjosaint Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 25 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: You've named fads rather than ambitious managers. I think Martin's record would stand up against any of those, so him. Wtf his record throughout his managerial career is shit 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 26 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: You've named fads rather than ambitious managers. I think Martin's record would stand up against any of those, so him. what record does Martin have? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 3 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said: The big question is who comes in to replace him when we don’t get past Norwich in the play-offs? How about the manager of Portsmouth Community Football Club...? To get that tinpot club promoted must have taken a level of genius previously unbeknownst to mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarehamSaintJames Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) Graham Potter? Steve Cooper? I still don’t dislike Russell Martin but it comes back to what I said a few days ago, nice football, some dominant performances - but with his team selections he doesn’t help himself. That was pretty evident the way people reacted when the team was announced today. Edited April 27 by FarehamSaintJames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Just now, AlexLaw76 said: what record does Martin have? A broken one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintsLoyal Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 I’d take 15 home wins next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 1 minute ago, Lee On Solent Saint said: Real genuine question, but what do you actually see in Martin? Or are you just on the wind up? He's quite clearly a good coach, evidence by the complete change in style he's overseen. I accept the test isn't the same as last season but he can only do what he can do and I personally find it much more enjoyable to watch now (I accept thats subjective). We've scored more goals this season than we're likely to for quite a while and his style is a big part of that. He's also quite clearly a good man manager, evidence by keeping a bunch of players engaged who could have sulked last summer and some of which are still looking for a way out this summer. I personally find him really engaging as a person too, his outlook on the game and life is positive and I much prefer that to alternatives. He's not perfect, obviously. We've conceded far too many and his "style" is to the extreme of course but I do think there's some mitigating factors there (having a keeper who could save some shots, a defence that didn't include 2 CB's we bombed out last season, and wide players who didn't flatter to deceive would help). I accept some of the above is subjective and people have different opinions but the idea he's done a bad job when we're still going to have 3 games to hit our target and we've set a club record for unbeaten games this season is utterly for the fairies and should be called out at every opportunity. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 12 minutes ago, Forkbeard said: What record does Martin have exactly other than making teams worse and wasting the ability available to him? Swansea suffered through his "process" for two years. It seems like most Saints fans cottoned onto his nonsense far quicker than a lot of ours did, but even your club has the gullible types who buy into his bullshit far more easily than most. We have a pretty fickle fan base after 3 or 4 years of players tossing it in and general shite football, so whoever came in had their work cut out. I do think, in the main, most were supportive of Martin and our home support this season has been significantly better than previous years - as much as he wants to moan about it… He’s attacked the fans a few times this season. The trouble is and I don’t mean this as a disrespect to Swansea - we will be you in 2 years time - the job was too big for him. I think hes a decent coach, but he doesn’t have anywhere near enough experience to step up to a side who are expecting to win every game. He’s way too stubborn for his own good, needs to ditch this ‘process’ nonsense and have 2 or 3 ways to win a game.. I can’t see that happening anytime soon though. He needs a massive failure (thinking a step up to the PL) to have that ‘oh shit’ moment I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 8 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: He's quite clearly a good coach, evidence by the complete change in style he's overseen. I accept the test isn't the same as last season but he can only do what he can do and I personally find it much more enjoyable to watch now (I accept thats subjective). We've scored more goals this season than we're likely to for quite a while and his style is a big part of that. He's also quite clearly a good man manager, evidence by keeping a bunch of players engaged who could have sulked last summer and some of which are still looking for a way out this summer. I personally find him really engaging as a person too, his outlook on the game and life is positive and I much prefer that to alternatives. He's not perfect, obviously. We've conceded far too many and his "style" is to the extreme of course but I do think there's some mitigating factors there (having a keeper who could save some shots, a defence that didn't include 2 CB's we bombed out last season, and wide players who didn't flatter to deceive would help). I accept some of the above is subjective and people have different opinions but the idea he's done a bad job when we're still going to have 3 games to hit our target and we've set a club record for unbeaten games this season is utterly for the fairies and should be called out at every opportunity. What was his excuse last season at Swansea? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: we've set a club record for unbeaten games this season If only there was some bright spark on the forum who could help put that seemingly fantastic run into context... Edited April 27 by trousers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkbeard Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 No disrespect taken. As things stand he's demonstrated that any job outside League One is too big for him. He's developed a talent for convincing club owners/management otherwise, but displays on the pitch tell the truth. For Swansea he took a playoff final team to finishes of 13th and 10th. He's taken a Southampton team with a (mostly) PL team and budget to, at best, fourth in the Championship. The man just can't coach at this level. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 2 minutes ago, Dman said: What was his excuse last season at Swansea? I've no idea mate, probably something along the lines of the excuse we used for our efforts last season too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 2 minutes ago, trousers said: If only there was some bright spark on the forum who could put that seemingly fantastic run into context... Club. Record. That's the context. 🎇 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Just now, Fabrice29 said: Club. Record. That's the context. 🎇 so what? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Just now, Fabrice29 said: Club. Record. That's the context. 🎇 I rest my case... 😂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osvaldorama Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 7 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: He's quite clearly a good coach, evidence by the complete change in style he's overseen. I accept the test isn't the same as last season but he can only do what he can do and I personally find it much more enjoyable to watch now (I accept thats subjective). We've scored more goals this season than we're likely to for quite a while and his style is a big part of that. He's also quite clearly a good man manager, evidence by keeping a bunch of players engaged who could have sulked last summer and some of which are still looking for a way out this summer. I personally find him really engaging as a person too, his outlook on the game and life is positive and I much prefer that to alternatives. He's not perfect, obviously. We've conceded far too many and his "style" is to the extreme of course but I do think there's some mitigating factors there (having a keeper who could save some shots, a defence that didn't include 2 CB's we bombed out last season, and wide players who didn't flatter to deceive would help). I accept some of the above is subjective and people have different opinions but the idea he's done a bad job when we're still going to have 3 games to hit our target and we've set a club record for unbeaten games this season is utterly for the fairies and should be called out at every opportunity. Replying to this post in order as it’s annoyed me. - Coaching the whole team to a style which then means you lose every big game isn’t good coaching. - His style is not a big part of us scoring more goals this season. That’s because we have gone down a league and have better players in every position than 90% of our competitors. - He is the one that has stuck with bazunu and those players that don’t perform. - Club record unbeaten record doesnt matter in the slightest when you shit the bed in the games that actually matter - He is doing a bad job. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said: so what? Listen to yourself. Actively choosing not to enjoy things because of a weird little point you want to prove to some people on a online forum. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Just now, Osvaldorama said: Replying to this post in order as it’s annoyed me. I rather suspect that's the general idea... He's very good at his craft to be fair.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: I've no idea mate, probably something along the lines of the excuse we used for our efforts last season too. If I recall correctly, the ‘issues’ were the exact same. Wingers not good enough 1 on 1, keeper etc. Perhaps, after 2 seasons of conceding 60+ goals, with 2 different side, he should look at himself? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) 1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said: Listen to yourself. Actively choosing not to enjoy things because of a weird little point you want to prove to some people on a online forum. Indeed... Fancy people coming on here trying to make a point ad infinitum.... Edited April 27 by trousers 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 1 hour ago, S-Clarke said: I'd like to see us be a bit ambitious with our managerial appointments. Weirdly we were more ambitious with our 'transfer guru' signings rather than our managers. We've ended up with Jones, Selles and Martin - none of those were ambitious, easy and cheap choices in the main. I'd like to see us grab a manager that we can sit up and say...''yeah, good appointment''. ''I like what he's done in the past''. Carlos Corberan is someone I rate highly at this level, Danny Rohl as well clearly has something about him, Mark Robbins is another who many fancy a change, Will Still seems to want to manage in England - there's 4 potential ambitious appointments for next season if things pan out as it looks. We all said in the summer that this was our most important managerial appointment, so I don't hold much hope in them getting anything right if they have to choose again. They'll go for what they think is the clever and left field option, and it's just an unnecessary gamble. Ralph is a recent example of the club making an ambitious appointment and that certainly worked for a few years. I didn't understand RM's team selection today. What was he trying to prove by leaving out AA and Che and replacing them with Mara? What was Bednerek doing on the bench? He admitted himself that it upset the rhythm, so why do it when you're about to enter the most important games of your managerial career? His thinking is getting muddled. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Just now, Fabrice29 said: Listen to yourself. Actively choosing not to enjoy things because of a weird little point you want to prove to some people on a online forum. Great, lets celebrate draws against Rotherham and Huddersfield. Looks like it will achieve nothing. Can't even use the 'freak season' as an excuse 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 1 minute ago, Dman said: If I recall correctly, the ‘issues’ were the exact same. Wingers not good enough 1 on 1, keeper etc. Perhaps, after 2 seasons of conceding 60+ goals, with 2 different side, he should look at himself? Yeah perhaps. That's why I said he's not perfect. Fwiw, our players have conceded 60 plus goals a season since 2017/18, and there's a couple of very common themes running through those teams who are still here btw. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said: Great, lets celebrate draws against Rotherham and Huddersfield. Looks like it will achieve nothing. Can't even use the 'freak season' as an excuse It looks like it'll achieve a crack at the play offs. So you might be able to enjoy those draws and a play off victory which will be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee On Solent Saint Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 18 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: He's quite clearly a good coach, evidence by the complete change in style he's overseen. I accept the test isn't the same as last season but he can only do what he can do and I personally find it much more enjoyable to watch now (I accept thats subjective). We've scored more goals this season than we're likely to for quite a while and his style is a big part of that. He's also quite clearly a good man manager, evidence by keeping a bunch of players engaged who could have sulked last summer and some of which are still looking for a way out this summer. I personally find him really engaging as a person too, his outlook on the game and life is positive and I much prefer that to alternatives. He's not perfect, obviously. We've conceded far too many and his "style" is to the extreme of course but I do think there's some mitigating factors there (having a keeper who could save some shots, a defence that didn't include 2 CB's we bombed out last season, and wide players who didn't flatter to deceive would help). I accept some of the above is subjective and people have different opinions but the idea he's done a bad job when we're still going to have 3 games to hit our target and we've set a club record for unbeaten games this season is utterly for the fairies and should be called out at every opportunity. I respect your opinion on him, its not one that I agree with. Don't forget he called Baz the best keeper in the League before the start of the season, and he was probably instrumental in our signing of Stewart. With regards to the centre backs, he's been desperate to play one of the ones we bombed out, even if its not at centre back. I don't really see him as engaging either, he comers across as a tad arrogant in his dealings with the media etc. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: Yeah perhaps. That's why I said he's not perfect. Fwiw, our players have conceded 60 plus goals a season since 2017/18, and there's a couple of very common themes running through those teams who are still here btw. Apples and oranges. We’d concede 80+ in the league above playing the way in which we do. BTW, Nathan Jones was brought in to buck that trend…. Hounded out by the fans (probably the ones who can’t get far enough up RMs arse), within 2 games. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 6 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: Club. Record. That's the context. 🎇 Meaningless. The fact that the unbeaten games happened consecutively is a statistical quirk. Spread them out more randomly and you will see that they were simply part of a pattern. So far we have lost 11 games out of 45. That means we were unbeaten in 34 games. Ipswich have been unbeaten in 38 out of 34. Leicester 34/44, Leeds 36/45. They are all good figures but the fact that a lump of ours came in a contiguous run is nothing worth celebrating. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee On Solent Saint Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: Yeah perhaps. That's why I said he's not perfect. Fwiw, our players have conceded 60 plus goals a season since 2017/18, and there's a couple of very common themes running through those teams who are still here btw. But that was at Premier League level. A back four with KWP/THB and Bednarek shouls absolutely no way be conceding over 60 goals in the championship. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 1 minute ago, Dman said: Apples and oranges. We’d concede 80+ in the league above playing the way in which we do. BTW, Nathan Jones was brought in to buck that trend…. Hounded out by the fans (probably the ones who can’t get far enough up RMs arse), within 2 games. I was one of the few that tried to defend Jones on here as well to be fair so don't label me with that He spoke some truths that people weren't ready to hear about some of our players that I quite enjoyed hearing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 5 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: Yeah perhaps. That's why I said he's not perfect. Fwiw, our players have conceded 60 plus goals a season since 2017/18, and there's a couple of very common themes running through those teams who are still here btw. Just remind me of the calibre of teams we have been playing this season compared to the ones "since 2017/8", remind me of the resources we have in this league compared to the other teams in this division and compare that with how it was "since 2017/8". Having a shit season in the Premier League under bloody Pellegrini and Hughes does not give Martin some get out of jail free card to concede the same number of goals as he did at Swansea with a far better resourced club and team. No fucking way. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SotonianWill Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: I was one of the few that tried to defend Jones on here as well to be fair so don't label me with that He spoke some truths that people weren't ready to hear about some of our players that I quite enjoyed hearing. Don't underestimate the looks factor here. It would seem for certain sections of our fanbase any sight of a suit and greasy hairdoe is enough for them to cream their knickers and devote full support to the messiah. Poor Nathan never stood a chance. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Just now, SotonianWill said: Don't underestimate the looks factor here. It would seem for certain sections of our fanbase any sight of a suit and greasy hairdoe is enough for them to cream their knickers and devote full support to the messiah. Poor Nathan never stood a chance. Spot on. Jines was out of his depth, but he’d had done a better job this season than RM has. I’d much rather go into the play offs with a side set up under Jones than I would RM. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 4 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said: But that was at Premier League level. A back four with KWP/THB and Bednarek shouls absolutely no way be conceding over 60 goals in the championship. There's also 8 games less in the PL btw but yes, as I said, we've conceded far too many. (I'd argue that any defence with Bednarek/Stephens in is going to concede goals whatever division you're in btw, because the skill of defending your box doesn't change depending on the level and I'm yet to see any evidence either of them can do it consistently but lets not get into that). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 5 minutes ago, CB Fry said: Just remind me of the calibre of teams we have been playing this season compared to the ones "since 2017/8", remind me of the resources we have in this league compared to the other teams in this division and compare that with how it was "since 2017/8". Having a shit season in the Premier League under bloody Pellegrini and Hughes does not give Martin some get out of jail free card to concede the same number of goals as he did at Swansea with a far better resourced club and team. No fucking way. I didn't say it did. Nor did I imply it or suggest it did in anyway. I just said having some shit defenders probably is a mitigating factor for conceding lots of goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Why’s he talking about his mum and about being tired when we’ve got promotion to play for? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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