Russell Martin

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Midfield_General said:

The question is - with Wilcox gone, who holds the inquest with Martin this morning about what the fuck that was and how he's going to fix it? Literally, who is managing the manager? 

This was my worry as soon as Wilcox was rumoured to go, we have zero football direction at the top again now. If we fail we will enter the summer with the entirety of our 11 leaving in the main, and no DoF to help the manager or decide on any approach.

[Pamplemousse]

1 hour ago, JRM said:

If we manage to beat Stoke please don't go over to the Northam at the end with whey whey wheeey,  be humble,  brief applause is all that's needed. 

The players and staff are doing a lap of honour at the end of the match

[John Boy Saint]

3 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

The players and staff are doing a lap of honour at the end of the match

Probably to an empty stadium like last season 

[Dman]

6 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

The question is - with Wilcox gone, who holds the inquest with Martin this morning about what the fuck that was and how he's going to fix it? Literally, who is managing the manager? 

Its gonna be the Ted talk expert, isn't it. 

On a serious note, whilst I disagree with the appraoch, we're clearly trying to replicate the city group model (even to the point of copying the kit providers) and play a similar, possesion based style. 

Whoever we bring in to replace Wilcox, has to be in a similar mold and have a similar philosphy. Otehrwise, we'll be re-building season upon season. 

[Wade Garrett]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

Its gonna be the Ted talk expert, isn't it. 

On a serious note, whilst I disagree with the appraoch, we're clearly trying to replicate the city group model (even to the point of copying the kit providers) and play a similar, possesion based style. 

Whoever we bring in to replace Wilcox, has to be in a similar mold and have a similar philosphy. Otehrwise, we'll be re-building season upon season. 

I hope we change direction completely.  Man City play with speed, power, a huge amount of running, skill and are drilled to death.

To try and copy that is ridiculous, as without just one of those facets it just doesn’t work.  We should have our own identity instead of sucking off Pep.

[Toussaint]

2 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I hope we change direction completely.  Man City play with speed, power, a huge amount of running, skill and are drilled to death.

To try and copy that is ridiculous, as without just one of those facets it just doesn’t work.  We should have our own identity instead of sucking off Pep.

They also aren’t too proud to hoof it up the pitch and regroup when required.

Edited April 24 by Toussaint
Grammar

[Dman]

8 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I hope we change direction completely.  Man City play with speed, power, a huge amount of running, skill and are drilled to death.

To try and copy that is ridiculous, as without just one of those facets it just doesn’t work.  We should have our own identity instead of sucking off Pep.

That's down to the manager though, not really the style of play. 

[Wade Garrett]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

That's down to the manager though, not really the style of play. 

Absolutely, and the world class players at his disposal.  That style of play will never work here.

[East Kent Saint]

What about Poch at Chelsea loads of top price players who just gave up long before it became a 5 niller 😄

[Nordic Saint]

On 19/05/2023 at 21:19, Nordic Saint said:

Good Manager vs Bad Manager

The passing around at the back left Swansea with the 4th worst defensive record in the Championship this season. The other 3 teams were relegated.

 

Russell doesn't do defence. His teams always ship loads of goals. 

[Dman]

28 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Absolutely, and the world class players at his disposal.  That style of play will never work here.

I wonder if Burnely fans were saying the same thing last year... Its about finding a balance between keeping the ball and attacking with intent. 

Martin's focus is keeping the ball. 

[Forkbeard]

Reading this thread as a Swans fan gave me an enormous sense of Deja Vu. It's like reading our own forums was during his time as a manager. All the same complaints, all the same failings game after game, all the same excuses and attempts to palm the blame off anywhere other than on himself. You've got a better squad than we did so that has masked his inadequacies quite a bit, but the foundations of how he wants his teams to play, what he calls his process, haven't changed at all.

Doesn't seem like he's conned as many of yours as he did ours though. Even now we've got plenty of people who still mourn his departure and would sell their first born for the chance to get him back.

[Toussaint]

11 minutes ago, Forkbeard said:

Reading this thread as a Swans fan gave me an enormous sense of Deja Vu. It's like reading our own forums was during his time as a manager. All the same complaints, all the same failings game after game, all the same excuses and attempts to palm the blame off anywhere other than on himself. You've got a better squad than we did so that has masked his inadequacies quite a bit, but the foundations of how he wants his teams to play, what he calls his process, haven't changed at all.

Doesn't seem like he's conned as many of yours as he did ours though. Even now we've got plenty of people who still mourn his departure and would sell their first born for the chance to get him back.

We have quite a few apologists also, it’s just that most of them have wisely decided to go to ground for a bit.

Edited April 24 by Toussaint

[Wade Garrett]

34 minutes ago, Dman said:

I wonder if Burnely fans were saying the same thing last year... Its about finding a balance between keeping the ball and attacking with intent. 

Martin's focus is keeping the ball. 

Strachan called it propaganda football.  

[Harry_SFC]

22 minutes ago, Forkbeard said:

Reading this thread as a Swans fan gave me an enormous sense of Deja Vu. It's like reading our own forums was during his time as a manager. All the same complaints, all the same failings game after game, all the same excuses and attempts to palm the blame off anywhere other than on himself. You've got a better squad than we did so that has masked his inadequacies quite a bit, but the foundations of how he wants his teams to play, what he calls his process, haven't changed at all.

Doesn't seem like he's conned as many of yours as he did ours though. Even now we've got plenty of people who still mourn his departure and would sell their first born for the chance to get him back.

I was optimistic at the start of the season that with better defensive players, this would negate the goals conceded due to the style of play. Sadly that hasn't happened. 

We are just so easy to beat once we've let in a goal. That's a mentality thing but it's also tactical. RM just doesn't have it in him to make the team more solid and hard to beat.

The only time we've won a "big game" this season was against Leeds at home when Martin changed the tactics slightly and we surrender possession a bit more. We won 3-1 and played well. He's since reverted back to possession at all costs and yesterday's game was a prime example of Russball at its worst. 

[trousers]

😂😂😂

Edited April 24 by trousers

[Osvaldorama]

Been saying it for ages. He doesn’t know how to set up a midfield properly.

His whole managerial career he’s been bailed out by having Downes at CM (who could play top half PL easily. I’d say he’s miles better than JWP personally)

[Give it to Ron]

Just now, trousers said:

McCarthy will drop his  KWP and Manning won’t get close enough to waiter to order anything 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Pamplemousse said:

The players and staff are doing a lap of honour at the end of the match

Why? It won't be our last home game.

[Nordic Saint]

Interesting to see what Swansea fans had to say just over a year ago:

"Martin is broken, players broken and fans broken."

"He may have the support of the owners but with very little support from the fanbase it's creating a toxic atmosphere & it'll only get worse.
I'll be renewing my season ticket but in the hope of seeing a different manager in charge next season. This shambles has to end."

Forum | Russell Martin reassured he has the full support of the majority owners at Swans by SwansIndependent | Swansea Independent (fansnetwork.co.uk)

[S-Clarke]

31 minutes ago, Forkbeard said:

Reading this thread as a Swans fan gave me an enormous sense of Deja Vu. It's like reading our own forums was during his time as a manager. All the same complaints, all the same failings game after game, all the same excuses and attempts to palm the blame off anywhere other than on himself. You've got a better squad than we did so that has masked his inadequacies quite a bit, but the foundations of how he wants his teams to play, what he calls his process, haven't changed at all.

Doesn't seem like he's conned as many of yours as he did ours though. Even now we've got plenty of people who still mourn his departure and would sell their first born for the chance to get him back.

Interesting to get your perspective, I did read MK Dons and your views when we appointed him and all of how it's playing out is just like you guys said. I truly believe his philosophy is flawed at a fundamental level. The players at the top end of the pitch like you say are better than yours, so we've been able to score lots of goals to mask the defensive shitness. 

If we didn't have a player at the level of Adam Armstrong or Ryan Fraser at the top end then we'd be struggling to make Top half based on our defensive record imo. I feel we're 4th in spite of Martin at this stage, not because of him. We should be much better. I find our defensive record for a team just relegated, with the resources we have, nothing but a disgrace.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

I hope we change direction completely.  Man City play with speed, power, a huge amount of running, skill and are drilled to death.

To try and copy that is ridiculous, as without just one of those facets it just doesn’t work.  We should have our own identity instead of sucking off Pep.

Man City are successful despite the way that they play rather than because of it.

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Man City are successful despite the way that they play rather than because of it.

They're successful because they're funded by oil, so they can buy Haaland and De Bryune. When you have the resources they have a 'philosophy' isn't as important, they're just good enough to do things that other teams can't defend against. We are trying to do the same thing with Che Adams and Will Smallbone. Spot the problem!

I always believed that for a club of our level, playing with a high press and bugging the hell out of the opposition is how we get success. All of this pass, pass, pass nonsense with the limited players we have is only going to end in lots and lots of tears and pain. Nothing wrong with passing the ball and keeping it, but that can't be all that we're about.

Edited April 24 by S-Clarke

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

They're successful because they're funded by oil, so they can buy Haaland and De Bryune. When you have the resources they have a 'philosophy' isn't as important, they're just good enough to do things that other teams can't defend against. We are trying to do the same thing with Che Adams and Will Smallbone. Spot the problem!

I always believed that for a club of our level, playing with a high press and bugging the hell out of the opposition is how we get success. All of this pass, pass, pass nonsense with the limited players we have is only going to end in lots and lots of tears and pain.

Too true. Money buys success. 

[RedArmy]

25 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

McCarthy will drop his  KWP and Manning won’t get close enough to waiter to order anything 

KWP would be too busy moving tables every few minutes to order any food. 

[Raging Bull]

26 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

McCarthy will drop his  KWP and Manning won’t get close enough to waiter to order anything 

 

Just now, RedArmy said:

KWP would be too busy moving tables every few minutes to order any food. 

And we’ll still end up footing the bill 

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, Forkbeard said:

Reading this thread as a Swans fan gave me an enormous sense of Deja Vu. It's like reading our own forums was during his time as a manager. All the same complaints, all the same failings game after game, all the same excuses and attempts to palm the blame off anywhere other than on himself. You've got a better squad than we did so that has masked his inadequacies quite a bit, but the foundations of how he wants his teams to play, what he calls his process, haven't changed at all.

Doesn't seem like he's conned as many of yours as he did ours though. Even now we've got plenty of people who still mourn his departure and would sell their first born for the chance to get him back.

I'm incredibly frustrated with him because any manager should be doing so much better than he is, given the comparative resources that he has available. 

But the real fault isn't with him, it's with the people who appointed him. When they appointed him, he had a single-minded approach that he said he would never change, which had some very clear weaknesses and which had delivered a very specific track record. And now - surprise! - he's playing exactly the same way, making exactly the same mistakes and displaying exactly the same weaknesses that he had in all his previous jobs, and it's delivering the same results.

Maybe they thought he would learn and develop, and he hasn't. But the fact is that what he's doing here is exactly what he's done everywhere else, so if they are surprised by that, then that's on them. It's like getting a dog and then being stunned when it barks and sniffs other dogs' arseholes. 

Edited April 24 by Midfield_General

[Midfield_General]

Oh and who was the genius responsible for appointing him? Jason Wilcox. 

So good luck to Man Utd if they think he's the man to sort out the absolute shit show they've got over there 🤣

[Pamplemousse]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Why? It won't be our last home game.

 I suppose it makes sense to do it for this weekend, that play-off game we'll either win and there'll be a pitch invasion or lose and everyone is deflated and we'll be doing a lap of honour in an empty stadium whilst the other team is celebrating with their fans. 

[Dr Who?]

Yep lap of ‘honour’. Could be nasty, but let’s hope not, save that for when we lose the playoff after rolling over and having our tummy rubbed. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, Forkbeard said:

Even now we've got plenty of people who still mourn his departure and would sell their first born for the chance to get him back.

How much do they want? 

[JRM]

13 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

How much do they want? 

Maybe instead of Martin being sued he can just go back to Swansea?

[Dman]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

Oh and who was the genius responsible for appointing him? Jason Wilcox. 

So good luck to Man Utd if they think he's the man to sort out the absolute shit show they've got over there 🤣

I saw today he's (wilcox) has apparently demaned Ten Hag plays the "new" united way... you guessed it, possession-based. 

Lets hope he takes old Rus and his 80% bullshit stat with him in the summer! 

[Ted Bates Statue]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I always believed that for a club of our level, playing with a high press and bugging the hell out of the opposition is how we get success. All of this pass, pass, pass nonsense with the limited players we have is only going to end in lots and lots of tears and pain. Nothing wrong with passing the ball and keeping it, but that can't be all that we're about.

I think we might still get away with this style in the division we're in currently, but it certainly won't get us anywhere in the PL.

I reckon Sport Republic are banking on Russell Martin getting us promoted and preparing for a swift change when we get a baptism of fire. Someone like Steve Cooper, who I believe was sounded out as a potential Hasenhuttl replacement when Semmens was still in charge.

[beatlesaint]

4 hours ago, Pamplemousse said:

The players and staff are doing a lap of honour at the end of the match

Yeah I saw that, given there's the play off semi final still to come I dont see the point, even more so knowing most want out, i suspect unless we beat Stoke by 4 or 5 it'll be pretty muted and sparse.

Edited April 24 by beatlesaint

[OldNick]

I have always been dubious of the possession that doesnt produce the reward compared to opponents less possession but similar goals against.

I have kept my powder dry as to be fair we went on a recrd run and so it must work to some degree. I thought thogh the opponents are supposed to be tired and they let in the late goals!!

I think we should hold fire until the season finishes before really spouting too much bile

[pimpin4rizeal]

We need to sack him now imo .

i haven’t even been on his case in this thread .. but it’s becoming completely evident we are not gonna get promoted this season with him in charge so why not let someone else have a crack at the playoffs 

act fast get somebody in who is more focused on results over style and see where it takes us 

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

I think we might still get away with this style in the division we're in currently, but it certainly won't get us anywhere in the PL.

I reckon Sport Republic are banking on Russell Martin getting us promoted and preparing for a swift change when we get a baptism of fire. Someone like Steve Cooper, who I believe was sounded out as a potential Hasenhuttl replacement when Semmens was still in charge.

I think Cooper was still in charge of Forest at that point, so it was always a bit of a long shot. The people in control at that point were desperate for Ralph to go so they could make their own mark (Rasmus), and our start gave him that opportunity. To this day I still believe we'd have stayed up had we kept Ralph in place, I know some don't agree with that - but the decision to get rid of him couldn't have gone any worse.

I have seen some fans calling for Cooper if we fail to go up this year, but that couldn't be more unrealistic. Once WHU have stopped flirting with unrealistic options themselves, like they always do, he'll end up there.

[Wade Garrett]

13 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I think Cooper was still in charge of Forest at that point, so it was always a bit of a long shot. The people in control at that point were desperate for Ralph to go so they could make their own mark (Rasmus), and our start gave him that opportunity. To this day I still believe we'd have stayed up had we kept Ralph in place, I know some don't agree with that - but the decision to get rid of him couldn't have gone any worse.

I have seen some fans calling for Cooper if we fail to go up this year, but that couldn't be more unrealistic. Once WHU have stopped flirting with unrealistic options themselves, like they always do, he'll end up there.

If Cooper goes there, maybe Potter can come back to his spiritual home.

[notnowcato]

56 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

If Cooper goes there, maybe Potter can come back to his spiritual home.

Deluded

[trousers]

1 minute ago, notnowcato said:

Deluded

Yeah, fancy thinking we can attract a top manager here...

[Badger]

1 hour ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

I think we might still get away with this style in the division we're in currently, but it certainly won't get us anywhere in the PL.

I reckon Sport Republic are banking on Russell Martin getting us promoted and preparing for a swift change when we get a baptism of fire. Someone like Steve Cooper, who I believe was sounded out as a potential Hasenhuttl replacement when Semmens was still in charge.

I think the Cooper story was a link with the then director, Matt Crocker, who had worked with him at the FA. So that tenuous connection has now gone. 

[Badger]

So if the press stories are to be believed, we've gone from Crocker and Semmens considering Cooper and Howe, to the appointments of Nathan Jones, and Russell in about 18 months. 

Cooper though doesn't seem to be a match for the skinny jeans, green or herbal tea type of candidate that Rasmus will be looking for.

[captainchris]

Why are several people salivating over bringing Steve Cooper in ??? Has been struggling like mad and not playing particularly good football…?

🤷‍♂️

 

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, captainchris said:

Why are several people salivating over bringing Steve Cooper in ??? Has been struggling like mad and not playing particularly good football…?

🤷‍♂️

 

Struggling???

[SaintNewForest]

36 minutes ago, captainchris said:

Why are several people salivating over bringing Steve Cooper in ??? Has been struggling like mad and not playing particularly good football…?

🤷‍♂️

 

I guess the fact he's won promotion from this league would be a big win in his favour. 

[Forkbeard]

5 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Interesting to get your perspective, I did read MK Dons and your views when we appointed him and all of how it's playing out is just like you guys said. I truly believe his philosophy is flawed at a fundamental level. The players at the top end of the pitch like you say are better than yours, so we've been able to score lots of goals to mask the defensive shitness. 

If we didn't have a player at the level of Adam Armstrong or Ryan Fraser at the top end then we'd be struggling to make Top half based on our defensive record imo. I feel we're 4th in spite of Martin at this stage, not because of him. We should be much better. I find our defensive record for a team just relegated, with the resources we have, nothing but a disgrace.

The thing is, we potentially had Joel Piroe and Morgan Whittaker as our forward line last season, yet for reasons known only to himself Martin treated Whittaker with almost total disrespect. He was packed off on loan, tore L1 up with Plymouth, we recalled him and RM couldn't have made it clearer that he was not interested in giving him a chance.

 

He's got a real gift for falling out with some players, playing others out of position and then whining about how his squad isn't good enough.

[trousers]

39 minutes ago, captainchris said:

Why are several people salivating over bringing Steve Cooper in ??? Has been struggling like mad and not playing particularly good football…?

🤷‍♂️

 

Sounds like the perfect fit for us...?

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, Forkbeard said:

He's got a real gift for falling out with some players, playing others out of position and then whining about how his squad isn't good enough.

Sounds familiar 

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, Forkbeard said:

The thing is, we potentially had Joel Piroe and Morgan Whittaker as our forward line last season, yet for reasons known only to himself Martin treated Whittaker with almost total disrespect. He was packed off on loan, tore L1 up with Plymouth, we recalled him and RM couldn't have made it clearer that he was not interested in giving him a chance.

 

He's got a real gift for falling out with some players, playing others out of position and then whining about how his squad isn't good enough.

Yeah, but, yeah, but "bravery"....