Russell Martin

[egg]

Just now, Lighthouse said:

So you’d rather play for a 0-0 against Hull, Bournemouth and Stoke than have a 5-3 or a 3-2? I’ll disagree there. I’m still looking forward to going to the Stoke game, dead rubber or not, knowing that pretty much anything can happen.

I'd rather that we got promoted with the squad that we have. I'd rather that we shut up shop when we were winning. I'd rather we didn't play suicidal football that anyone bar RM can see isn't working. 

Football is not about scoring lots of goals. It's about scoring more than you concede, and our single biggest issue is that we concede too many cos RM can't set teams up to defend. That much was known before his first game (me and others got shot down for mentioning it) and the only thing he's exceeded my expectations on is how inept he is at coaching a back 4.

[Badger]

3 minutes ago, saintant said:

I'm not so sure he says the right things. If you listen to him he has a series of phrases that he continually rolls out at every interview.  He's clearly unable to think on his feet so hides behind these stock phrases which he keeps repeating. He doesn't strike me as a progressive coach full of ideas and views about the game - he's just very limited from what I see and hear.

Don’t all managers resort to this though ?

Not defending the bloke by any means as I find some of his interviews ( about  how brave the guys were … proud of them etc) tedious. But thinking back Adkins trotted out well worn phrases. 

[benali-shorts]

I just want a coach who gets the best out of our players, by playing the system which best suits their abilities. The idea of some sort of Championship possession-based ideology Manager is madness and completely unrealistic for players at this level. Andersen Wilcox and. Martin need to stop gazing at themselves in the mirror and get their heads out of their arses. 

[CB Fry]

Just got back from Leicester.

Personally I think we are blessed to have such a forward thinking revolutionary manager such as Russell Martin.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Just now, CB Fry said:

Just got back from Leicester.

Personally I think we are blessed to have such a forward thinking revolutionary manager such as Russell Martin.

Bet he made you feel proud CB

[Graffito]

11 minutes ago, saintant said:

I'm not so sure he says the right things. If you listen to him he has a series of phrases that he continually rolls out at every interview.  He's clearly unable to think on his feet so hides behind these stock phrases which he keeps repeating. He doesn't strike me as a progressive coach full of ideas and views about the game - he's just very limited from what I see and hear.

Yes his post match interview was woolly. First question was what went wrong his answer I don’t know I’ll have to watch it back. Implied criticism in Pearson’s comments after the interview. He said he’s a leader, he needs to give the players clarity.

Incidentally his pre match interview was flat. And he said afterwards we knew it was play offs before the match. Any wonder we got a limp performance. Having said that we’ve been defending like pussies all season. 

 

[Galway saint]

8 minutes ago, Badger said:

Don’t all managers resort to this though ?

Not defending the bloke by any means as I find some of his interviews ( about  how brave the guys were … proud of them etc) tedious. But thinking back Adkins trotted out well worn phrases. 

what can you say after that shit show?

 

[Bad Wolf]

We should have won every single game with the squad we have!!! 

I hear Madrid and PSG are queueing up to sign Smallbone, Adams and Rothwell.

Though on a serious note, are we going to finally admit that Brooks is sh1t? There's an obvious reason as to why we aren't supposed to crititise him but other than about 2 games he's been fvcking dreadful.

[captainchris]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

I'd rather that we got promoted with the squad that we have. I'd rather that we shut up shop when we were winning. I'd rather we didn't play suicidal football that anyone bar RM can see isn't working. 

Football is not about scoring lots of goals. It's about scoring more than you concede, and our single biggest issue is that we concede too many cos RM can't set teams up to defend. That much was known before his first game (me and others got shot down for mentioning it) and the only thing he's exceeded my expectations on is how inept he is at coaching a back 4.

Precisely Egg….

RM has had a terrible defensive record throughout his managerial career and here he is just as terrible which is not good enough.

It has been obvious all season and yet he has done nothing to coach the defending at all. We still don’t engage the ball and allow crosses or passes into our box at the will of opposing teams.

Martin has not addressed our defensive ineptness one jott!

For this reason I am out… 

 

[HarvSFC]

61 goals conceded. Look at the league table, Leicester 39, Leeds 37, West Brom below us 44, Bristol City eight places below us 47, 13th Sunderland 51, 16th Millwall 55, go as far down to 22nd with Birmingham and they've only conceded 3 more goals than us this season.

These tactics would get annihilated in the Premier League, as we saw tonight and as we saw against the young Liverpool team in the cup. All well and good keeping possession. But we play possession far too often in our own half and in our own danger areas. As soon as we lose the ball, which is now becoming inevitable, the opposition get the ball in a good attacking position spring to punish us with a lot of our players now out of position. We, however, will allow the opposition to set up their defence and attempt to play through them, rather than taking any advantages of any gaps when we do pick up the ball. It has been boring and dull for large parts of the season and we're 4th, which shouldn't be the case.

Worrying thing is that Martin doesn't look like he wants to adapt given his history at MK Dons and Swansea and the goals against tally at those clubs. An ex-centre-back who doesn't know how to setup a defence. Go figure.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

3 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

We should have won every single game with the squad we have!!! 

I hear Madrid and PSG are queueing up to sign Smallbone, Adams and Rothwell.

Though on a serious note, are we going to finally admit that Brooks is sh1t? There's an obvious reason as to why we aren't supposed to crititise him but other than about 2 games he's been fvcking dreadful.

Are they queuing up to get Martin in as their next manager? Seriously doubt it

btw what is it with you and wanting to bring cancer into the conversation? 

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

I have a feeling he's going to experience the sack for the first time in his managerial career at the end of this season.

[Midfield_General]

I now genuinely hope we don't somehow scrape our way to promotion through the playoffs. We are nowhere near ready, and with Martin in charge it would just be humiliating carnage, week in and week out. 

That was a complete capitulation tonight, and against better opposition that's how you lose by seven, eight, nine or worse, as we know all too well. We got into that horrible but familiar place where the opposition looked like they were going to score every single time they came forward. The players completely gave up - there was no fight, no running, no shape, no pride. And this from a team and manager who are meant to be playing for something. 

With that mentality from the players and that level of tactical ineptitude from the manager that we saw tonight, fuck getting into the Premier League to be cannon fodder. Fuck that good and proper.  

Edited April 23 by Midfield_General

[Challenger]

30 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

61 goals conceded. Look at the league table, Leicester 39, Leeds 37, West Brom below us 44, Bristol City eight places below us 47, 13th Sunderland 51, 16th Millwall 55, go as far down to 22nd with Birmingham and they've only conceded 3 more goals than us this season.

These tactics would get annihilated in the Premier League, as we saw tonight and as we saw against the young Liverpool team in the cup. All well and good keeping possession. But we play possession far too often in our own half and in our own danger areas. As soon as we lose the ball, which is now becoming inevitable, the opposition get the ball in a good attacking position spring to punish us with a lot of our players now out of position. We, however, will allow the opposition to set up their defence and attempt to play through them, rather than taking any advantages of any gaps when we do pick up the ball. It has been boring and dull for large parts of the season and we're 4th, which shouldn't be the case.

Worrying thing is that Martin doesn't look like he wants to adapt given his history at MK Dons and Swansea and the goals against tally at those clubs. An ex-centre-back who doesn't know how to setup a defence. Go figure.

It really is fake football of the first order.

[captainchris]

3 hours ago, Roo1976 said:

nope, we throw away winning positions because were fannying around passing for the sake of yet another aimless pass. Just this 1st half against Leiecster,we won a corner in i think about 27 mins and within 6 passes it was......................bac pass the k at the keepers feet. For crying out aloud we need to move the ball quicker and take on the opposition rather than collect the pass and pass it back to where its just come from .Be progressive and dictate the game rather than be  meek and weak,cause weve all seen the sloppy passes that drop us right in the shit ,and it happens far to frequently under this manager and the style of football. Don't get me wrong ive loved the fact that weve won alot more this season and were almost in the hunt for the big return,but not wanting to put a downer on it, can anyone really believe we can win a playoff final,or indeed reach one ?

It isn’t the fact we play out from the back so much as rank non existent defending which causes us to leak goals. We do not perform even the basics of defending and this why we concede goals. We score as many as anyone but concede far more than any promotion team should or can if they want to get promoted.

Martin is completely clueless with coaching defending and that means he can never be successful and nor can we.

[6ft8saint]

1 hour ago, HarvSFC said:

61 goals conceded. Look at the league table, Leicester 39, Leeds 37, West Brom below us 44, Bristol City eight places below us 47, 13th Sunderland 51, 16th Millwall 55, go as far down to 22nd with Birmingham and they've only conceded 3 more goals than us this season.

These tactics would get annihilated in the Premier League, as we saw tonight and as we saw against the young Liverpool team in the cup. All well and good keeping possession. But we play possession far too often in our own half and in our own danger areas. As soon as we lose the ball, which is now becoming inevitable, the opposition get the ball in a good attacking position spring to punish us with a lot of our players now out of position. We, however, will allow the opposition to set up their defence and attempt to play through them, rather than taking any advantages of any gaps when we do pick up the ball. It has been boring and dull for large parts of the season and we're 4th, which shouldn't be the case.

Worrying thing is that Martin doesn't look like he wants to adapt given his history at MK Dons and Swansea and the goals against tally at those clubs. An ex-centre-back who doesn't know how to setup a defence. Go figure.

It is strange as at one point he did have it and then when stephens injury ended he fucked around with it. I feel he doesn't have the back bone to tell some players no

[sambosa75]

56 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I have a feeling he's going to experience the sack for the first time in his managerial career at the end of this season.

He should do.

He’s failed in his remit of getting us promoted as we certainly won’t win the playoffs.  Probably thankfully so as the team is miles off the required standard for the PL.

As manager, he has to carry the can.  Far too many major issues he seems incapable or uninterested in fixing.

Time for a new approach next season with the club about the significantly tighten their belt financially.

 

 

 

[SNSUN]

We have two dead rubbers left - the only reason to win either is to go into the play-offs in some kind of form. However if Martin doesn't give Edozie, SAA and Dibling etc some kind of run out then he should be shot. Perfect time to give the kids some game time at a club that wants their youth department to be a success.

I'm not Martin out - largely the recruitment is what has been shit for us in the last couple of seasons, but he's not doing himself any favours by sticking and backing players that are not performing. This season we've been an Adam Armstrong away from being a mid-table team.

HUGE reset needed in the summer if we don't go up - and God help us if we do.

[maxi_sopez]

I agree with the fellow posters fearing about what happens if we do get promoted. This squads even with some quality additions feel so off premier league standard. And Martin's aproach would be destroyed by every single club currently in the league. God help us if we do go up!

[Dark Munster]

5 hours ago, egg said:

He won't stay if we go up, but we won't go up. He needs to go whatever happens this season, but he's absolutely fucked what was a golden opportunity at promotion. Completely fucked it.

We need an experienced director of football who isn't a hipster, and a manager with a proven track record of promotion, not a proven track record of passing in stupid fucking triangles and wanting his keeper to be Franz Beckenbauer. 

The blokes an absolute fucking idiot. 

Rasmus or Russ?

They both are.

[Dark Munster]

5 hours ago, benali-shorts said:

I just want a coach who gets the best out of our players, by playing the system which best suits their abilities. The idea of some sort of Championship possession-based ideology Manager is madness and completely unrealistic for players at this level. Ankersen Wilcox and. Martin need to stop gazing at themselves in the mirror and get their heads out of their arses. 

For that deluded, self-obsessed, twat it would be like asking a bear not to shit in the woods.

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Though on a serious note, are we going to finally admit that Brooks is sh1t?

He’s not shit though. He’s a decent player that’s been over coached by a David Brent tribute act 

[Sarisbury Saint]

7 hours ago, Galway saint said:

what can you say after that shit show?

 

He should have said what you’ve just said.

[AlexLaw76]

He is such a 1 trick pony as a manager, it is unreal.

his track record is bang average and we are conceding a Russell Martin number of goals.

Have to change the manager in the summer. 

[LGTL]

7 hours ago, HarvSFC said:

61 goals conceded. Look at the league table, Leicester 39, Leeds 37, West Brom below us 44, Bristol City eight places below us 47, 13th Sunderland 51, 16th Millwall 55, go as far down to 22nd with Birmingham and they've only conceded 3 more goals than us this season.

These tactics would get annihilated in the Premier League, as we saw tonight and as we saw against the young Liverpool team in the cup. All well and good keeping possession. But we play possession far too often in our own half and in our own danger areas. As soon as we lose the ball, which is now becoming inevitable, the opposition get the ball in a good attacking position spring to punish us with a lot of our players now out of position. We, however, will allow the opposition to set up their defence and attempt to play through them, rather than taking any advantages of any gaps when we do pick up the ball. It has been boring and dull for large parts of the season and we're 4th, which shouldn't be the case.

Worrying thing is that Martin doesn't look like he wants to adapt given his history at MK Dons and Swansea and the goals against tally at those clubs. An ex-centre-back who doesn't know how to setup a defence. Go figure.

And this is why he needs to go. He should have gone last night. You can’t progress or do anything if you completely ignore one half of the pitch. His previous records prove this isn’t a one off and will only get worse. 

We are fourth in spite of this deluded helmet and thanks to the fact that our attacking players are a bit better then most other teams. 

[Long Shot]

8 hours ago, captainchris said:

Precisely Egg….

RM has had a terrible defensive record throughout his managerial career and here he is just as terrible which is not good enough.

It has been obvious all season and yet he has done nothing to coach the defending at all. We still don’t engage the ball and allow crosses or passes into our box at the will of opposing teams.

Martin has not addressed our defensive ineptness one jott!

For this reason I am out… 

 

It’s not just the defence, we were pathetic up front too

[saintstowin]

The goals against considering how little the opposition have the ball. This is what gets me and screams very loudly that the approach has severe limitations.

For the most part we've coped by being better and quality eventually winning. 

But on off days and when we play good teams we are exposed so easily. 

[gammon cheeks]

Maybe the players have had enough of Russball ...

 

[Whitey Grandad]

8 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Just got back from Leicester.

Personally I think we are blessed to have such a forward thinking revolutionary manager such as Russell Martin.

Very brave of you to go there.

[egg]

8 hours ago, Galway saint said:

what can you say after that shit show?

 

Sorry...that he wasn't good enough...that we weren't good enough...that he knows the issues and that he and the players will work hard at sorting them...

That all needs insigh and humility though. 

[Badger]

For me the only benefit of keeping RM is the fear of who  Rasmus might appoint next. 

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

We’re the possession kings, a crown RM wears proudly, but in reality it’s nothing if there’s no end product and so painfully exposed at the back. A few months back we had some success against the lesser sides (but even most of those now know how to play it) but we’ve constantly come unstuck against the better sides in this division. They can afford us all this possession we want as they know we’ll do little with it and just pick us off when the opportunity arises, last night the perfect storm, nearly 70% possession with a 5-nothing defeat.

Last night was always a dead rubber but after the second half capitulation against Cardiff’s second XI a solid performance was required for momentum going into the play-offs. We’d get eaten alive in the PL and be coming back down with the Christmas decorations.

[coalman]

Martin's comments are concerning. Last night should be a wake up call.

We didn't make any decent chances. We couldn't win the ball back. We couldn't pass through our midfield. We gave their attackers and midfielders as much time and space as they wanted. We lost all the physical battles. The players didn't play for each other.

I'm struggling to think of anything we did well as a team. There were odd bits of individual competence from time to time but that was as wretched a team performance as much as the Preston game was a great team performance.

In fact the only positive I'm drawing from that is that we're unlikely to face Leicester in the playoffs now.

[FarehamSaintJames]

Wow what a difference a week makes.

Still just about backing him but my word those post-match comments are alarming.

An element of throwing players under the bus (If Jack Stephens plays we don’t concede five), that’s kind of ironic given that the current CB pairing had that mammoth winning streak.

A nice word of Che Adams in that he was the only one that looked up for it and he’s out of contract. That implies to me he’s got no intention of staying but we’re persisting with him because we have no other out and out target man.

Tactically was awful. Anyone could see that Aribo was blowing out his arse from minute one. Joe Rothwell and David Brooks have always been better as impact subs. 
I’d love to know what Ryan Fraser has done wrong to not be in the team, given the only reason he went out the team was because of injury - and arguably the team haven’t performed to the same level since.

This squad is going to look very different next season.

Russell Martin needs to grow a pair and quickly.

[stknowle]

9 hours ago, Galway saint said:

what can you say after that shit show?

 

Have a listen to Stephens’ interview with Blackmore

[captainchris]

1 hour ago, Long Shot said:

It’s not just the defence, we were pathetic up front too

I think you are missing the point. It is not the number of goals we have scored which is the problem, it’s the number we have conceded….

[JRM]

If we manage to beat Stoke please don't go over to the Northam at the end with whey whey wheeey,  be humble,  brief applause is all that's needed. 

[Mr X]

It's a dilemma wether to stick with Martin beyond this season, I think we can assume we won't be going up via the playoffs.  We are stuck with this ingrained style that only looks good when it occasionally works against teams that can't press us properly as soon as we are against a team that can do it better we fall apart and we ship goals for fun! I think it's make or break for Russ as it's clear we are going to be even worse next season 

[AlexLaw76]

8 minutes ago, Mr X said:

It's a dilemma wether to stick with Martin beyond this season, I think we can assume we won't be going up via the playoffs.  We are stuck with this ingrained style that only looks good when it occasionally works against teams that can't press us properly as soon as we are against a team that can do it better we fall apart and we ship goals for fun! I think it's make or break for Russ as it's clear we are going to be even worse next season 

Why are we stuck with his particular style?

[Mr X]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Why are we stuck with his particular style?

Because it's the only one he knows and his whole philosophy? 

[Sheaf Saint]

1 minute ago, Mr X said:

It's a dilemma wether to stick with Martin beyond this season, I think we can assume we won't be going up via the playoffs.  We are stuck with this ingrained style that only looks good when it occasionally works against teams that can't press us properly as soon as we are against a team that can do it better we fall apart and we ship goals for fun! I think it's make or break for Russ as it's clear we are going to be even worse next season 

I'm with you on this. I just can't see us progressing with him still in charge, persisting with his stubborn insistence that propaganda possession football will see us through. Clearly it won't because it gets ruthlessly exposed any time we come up against a half decent opponent, and Russ has proven beyond any doubt that he is utterly incapable of identifying what is going wrong in-game and making changes to adapt to the opposition tactics. That is a serious failing that, if it continues, will see us always flirting near the top but never seriously competing for title/auto-promotion.

He won't change. He's made that clear on multiple occasions. It's his way or the highway, and he's far too pig-headed to accept that maybe, just maybe, his system isn't perfect and that it needs to be tweaked from time to time in order to overcome a particular type of threat. He's learned no lessons over the course of a whole season with this team and continues to repeat the same mistakes week in, week out. 

So either we somehow manage to win the playoffs and go up, where his style of play will get ruthlessly punished like it was against Leicester last night, and we'll probably end up beating the 9-0 records; or we lose out and remain in this division next season with a weakened squad. Either way, Russell Martin is not the right man to take us forward, so I would be looking to replace him at the end of the season with a more flexible, competent tactical manager.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Mr X said:

Because it's the only one he knows and his whole philosophy? 

That is true, sadly. He is so dogmatic and emotional about it

[Mr X]

Just now, Sheaf Saint said:

I'm with you on this. I just can't see us progressing with him still in charge, persisting with his stubborn insistence that propaganda possession football will see us through. Clearly it won't because it gets ruthlessly exposed any time we come up against a half decent opponent, and Russ has proven beyond any doubt that he is utterly incapable of identifying what is going wrong in-game and making changes to adapt to the opposition tactics. That is a serious failing that, if it continues, will see us always flirting near the top but never seriously competing for title/auto-promotion.

He won't change. He's made that clear on multiple occasions. It's his way or the highway, and he's far too pig-headed to accept that maybe, just maybe, his system isn't perfect and that it needs to be tweaked from time to time in order to overcome a particular type of threat. He's learned no lessons over the course of a whole season with this team and continues to repeat the same mistakes week in, week out. 

So either we somehow manage to win the playoffs and go up, where his style of play will get ruthlessly punished like it was against Leicester last night, and we'll probably end up beating the 9-0 records; or we lose out and remain in this division next season with a weakened squad. Either way, Russell Martin is not the right man to take us forward, so I would be looking to replace him at the end of the season with a more flexible, competent tactical manager.

Exactly this unfortunately 

[Give it to Ron]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

That is true, sadly. He is so dogmatic and emotional about it

That’s my issue with him he just cannot or will not change tactics to the detriment of the team we just change personnel into that same position.

When it works it’s great but when teams work it out with better management we get turned over.

[Mr X]

The problem with Russ ball is that any decent team knows that 90% of the time we are in our own half passing in circles! So all they have to do is press harder than us to win possession in our half and they are already in prime position to attack our goal and they haven't even had to start an attack from their half! So risky so crazy unless you have world class players! 

[Dman]

4 minutes ago, Mr X said:

The problem with Russ ball is that any decent team knows that 90% of the time we are in our own half passing in circles! So all they have to do is press harder than us to win possession in our half and they are already in prime position to attack our goal and they haven't even had to start an attack from their half! So risky so crazy unless you have world class players! 

Talking of pressing, having watched it all season, our pressing (from our forwards) is absolutely diabolical - so easy to play out and get inbehind us. Probably part of why we conceed so many. 

We'd be better of sitting in a decent block rather than half arsed pressing. 

[Mr X]

Just now, Dman said:

Talking of pressing, having watched it all season, our pressing (from our forwards) is absolutely diabolical - so easy to play out and get inbehind us. Probably part of why we conceed so many. 

We'd be better of sitting in a decent block rather than half arsed pressing. 

This is true the press is nowhere near as good lately and we lack players in the romeu wanyama mould that can get stuck in with more aggression 

[Give it to Ron]

No shit Sherlock 

Martin: “We started the second half so well, but then we concede a rubbish goal. I made subs to try and be even more aggressive, I thought the game was there for us. So I need to look at myself for that.” #saintsfc 

How is bringing on straight replacement aggression? Change shape or tactics is sticking 4-3-3 isn’t.

Edited April 24 by Give it to Ron

[Mr X]

Just now, Give it to Ron said:

No shit Sherlock 

Martin: “We started the second half so well, but then we concede a rubbish goal. I made subs to try and be even more aggressive, I thought the game was there for us. So I need to look at myself for that.” #saintsfc 

How is bringing on straight replacement aggression? Change shape or tactics is sticking 4-3-3 isn’t.

All Martin is, is a player relationship coach he likes to be popular and liked by the players in a bid to get good performances but he isn't a tactician of any kind on any level and that's what he's got criticism for at other clubs he is very rigid in his philosophy of the playing from the back press and there's no deviation from that 

Edited April 24 by Mr X

[Midfield_General]

The question is - with Wilcox gone, who holds the inquest with Martin this morning about what the fuck that was and how he's going to fix it? Literally, who is managing the manager?