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Russell Martin

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david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted
On 06/01/2024 at 15:21, Bad Wolf said:

The one where he took us down? I'm not old enough to remember

That season was 1973-74.   Lawrie McMenemy appointed assistant manager in summer 73, took over from Ted Bates.. (had been manager for 18 years)

In November 1973  Ted Bates took a back seat and ..Lawrie Mc. was appointed first team manager ....when Saints were  8th in the league.

Despite a 1-1 home draw v. Spurs in his first match, his teams won only twice in the following 10 games. 

The real nightmare began when we lost 0-7 at Ipswich in February 74.   (High scoring Ipswich finished 4th that season). 

 

Saints won only 3 times in the final 15 matches, and the very rare feat of beating Everton 3-0 at Goodison Park on the final day of the season

(with Peter Osgood scoring his first goal in his 10th appearance), was no consolation as we  finished in 18th place and were relegated To Div.2 

...along with Man Utd. and Norwich . (the first season that the bottom 3 teams were relegated).

 

There were no dramatic changes to the team (the exception was Brian O'Neil's absence) and the signings of Peach and Osgood was too little too late.

Mick Channon who had scored 16 times during the early part of the season.... managed just 5 goals in the last 26 games.

Major changes in the next two seasons were enough for us to get a team good enough to beat Man U in the 1976 Cup Final,

and McMenemy's " new look " gave us some great signings in the next 10 season (returning to the top tier in 1978).   

We finished top half every season afterwards, and narrowly missed the title in 1983-84 when finishing in 2nd place behind champions Liverpool.

 

NOTE to Bad Wolf..  if you weren't around to see games during  that period - you missed some of the best football in the entire Post-war period.

  • Like 12
EssEffCee

EssEffCee

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

That season was 1973-74.   Lawrie McMenemy appointed assistant manager in summer 73, took over from Ted Bates.. (had been manager for 18 years)

In November 1973  Ted Bates took a back seat and ..Lawrie Mc. was appointed first team manager ....when Saints were  8th in the league.

Despite a 1-1 home draw v. Spurs in his first match, his teams won only twice in the following 10 games. 

The real nightmare began when we lost 0-7 at Ipswich in February 74.   (High scoring Ipswich finished 4th that season). 

 

Saints won only 3 times in the final 15 matches, and the very rare feat of beating Everton 3-0 at Goodison Park on the final day of the season

(with Peter Osgood scoring his first goal in his 10th appearance), was no consolation as we  finished in 18th place and were relegated To Div.2 

...along with Man Utd. and Norwich . (the first season that the bottom 3 teams were relegated).

 

There were no dramatic changes to the team (the exception was Brian O'Neil's absence) and the signings of Peach and Osgood was too little too late.

Mick Channon who had scored 16 times during the early part of the season.... managed just 5 goals in the last 26 games.

Major changes in the next two seasons were enough for us to get a team good enough to beat Man U in the 1976 Cup Final,

and McMenemy's " new look " gave us some great signings in the next 10 season (returning to the top tier in 1978).   

We finished top half every season afterwards, and narrowly missed the title in 1983-84 when finishing in 2nd place behind champions Liverpool.

 

NOTE to Bad Wolf..  if you weren't around to see games during  that period - you missed some of the best football in the entire Post-war period.

Was way before my time but surely we didn't finish 18th as would have been a 22 team league back then?

Always forget United went down that year too. If they were only promoted in '75 is it fair to say they weren't one of countries best sides for '76? Always wondered why our upset never seems to be mentioned alongside Sunderlands and wondering if that's why?

  • Like 1
TheAlehouseBrawlers

TheAlehouseBrawlers

Posted
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, EssEffCee said:

Was way before my time but surely we didn't finish 18th as would have been a 22 team league back then?

Always forget United went down that year too. If they were only promoted in '75 is it fair to say they weren't one of countries best sides for '76? Always wondered why our upset never seems to be mentioned alongside Sunderlands and wondering if that's why?

We were victims of being the first time the bottom three went down.

Man United went straight back up and were flying from then on, they had a fantastic side by 76 and it was a massive shock to get done in the final by a second division side. Bobby Charlton was predicting United would get six!

We should have beat them at the Dell a year later in the FA Cup but they scraped a draw and replay - worth catching on the Big Match Revisited where it’s been shown before.

Edited by TheAlehouseBrawlers
Added a bit about 77
  • Like 1
John B

John B

Posted
Posted
On 15/05/2023 at 15:08, Wade Garrett said:

Would be a shit appointment and wouldn’t sell many season tickets.

After the Jones debacle, there is no way they could sell the appointment of Martin or the Plymouth bloke to the majority of supporters IMO.

So what do you think now was it a shit appointment or not

  • Like 2
BERMUDASAINT

BERMUDASAINT

Posted
Posted
On 13/01/2024 at 18:46, gio1saints said:

 

 

Occam’s razor : The most likely explanation is probably the correct one. The last response is the right answer. The myth of the “ adjustments” needs putting to bed. All this begrudging of a manager and his team who’ve worked so hard is unseemly guys..

The factors why it took a while to get going was

1. because it takes time to learn a new system. And the learning time required is not necessarily linear. 

2. Players were overloaded with instructions and were taking time digesting them. RM admits he probably stuffed them too much too fast. But it was the same stuffing not anything different.
 

As soon as team started to get fluent in PB football RM style and shave microseconds off reaction times all of a sudden it looked like we’ve made adjustments and are playing it forwards and faster - and by inference to the argument proposed- because previously they were told not to.

Inherent in the “ adjustments” mythology is that the team were specifically told to fanny around our six yard box and ultimately give the ball away or hit 450 passes in each half mainly from goalie to Cb without looking dangerous. NOT to play incisive attacking PB football. Despite RM saying that this was exactly what he did NOT want us to do.
 

To think otherwise is just bloody mindedness. It’s a myth. nonsense. 

Saints been trying to play possession based incisive attacking football from the start.

Go back watch his interviews where he explicitly repeatedly says he wants to move the ball faster more forwards etc. He didn’t change the tactics. The players just got better and better at it until suddenly- it seems to have clicked and we operate at a consistently high standard . It takes fewer touches to be in optimal position to take advantage in various parts of the pitch. Nobody has learned new skills. It’s still football but we do it faster more accurately more decisively now. It’s not a tweak it’s called evolution learning and getting better at a skill. 

 

Go back and read every interview with him and the players snd compare to now. Back then they were learning now the passes movements spaces covering etc are microseconds faster and done on instinct based on repetition and learning.

Well said, just have to listen to what RM has been saying to find the truth. 

 

notnowcato

notnowcato

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, John B said:

So what do you think now was it a shit appointment or not

We probably should put all this behind us now, as things currently stand it looks like a really good appointment, who knows what the future holds.

Also, I'm not sure Wade knows what a fence is let alone being able to sit on one, the colour grey is not in his spectrum, we need characters like him.

  • Like 1
Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, david in sweden said:

 

 

NOTE to Bad Wolf..  if you weren't around to see games during  that period - you missed some of the best football in the entire Post-war period.

So I hear

  • Sad 1
John B

John B

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, notnowcato said:

We probably should put all this behind us now, as things currently stand it looks like a really good appointment, who knows what the future holds.

Also, I'm not sure Wade knows what a fence is let alone being able to sit on one, the colour grey is not in his spectrum, we need characters like him.

Why do we need characters like him?

  • Haha 1
Kenilworthy

Kenilworthy

Posted
Posted
On 18/01/2024 at 08:24, david in sweden said:

That season was 1973-74.   Lawrie McMenemy appointed assistant manager in summer 73, took over from Ted Bates.. (had been manager for 18 years)

In November 1973  Ted Bates took a back seat and ..Lawrie Mc. was appointed first team manager ....when Saints were  8th in the league.

Despite a 1-1 home draw v. Spurs in his first match, his teams won only twice in the following 10 games. 

The real nightmare began when we lost 0-7 at Ipswich in February 74.   (High scoring Ipswich finished 4th that season). 

 

Saints won only 3 times in the final 15 matches, and the very rare feat of beating Everton 3-0 at Goodison Park on the final day of the season

(with Peter Osgood scoring his first goal in his 10th appearance), was no consolation as we  finished in 18th place and were relegated To Div.2 

...along with Man Utd. and Norwich . (the first season that the bottom 3 teams were relegated).

 

There were no dramatic changes to the team (the exception was Brian O'Neil's absence) and the signings of Peach and Osgood was too little too late.

Mick Channon who had scored 16 times during the early part of the season.... managed just 5 goals in the last 26 games.

Major changes in the next two seasons were enough for us to get a team good enough to beat Man U in the 1976 Cup Final,

and McMenemy's " new look " gave us some great signings in the next 10 season (returning to the top tier in 1978).   

We finished top half every season afterwards, and narrowly missed the title in 1983-84 when finishing in 2nd place behind champions Liverpool.

 

NOTE to Bad Wolf..  if you weren't around to see games during  that period - you missed some of the best football in the entire Post-war period.

I always thought Lawrie was appointed as assistant manager. But having looked back at the records, from the moment he joined us he was "Team Manager Designate".

  • Like 1
Mr X

Mr X

Posted
Posted

Myself and pretty much 90% of the fanbase were initially hugely underwhelmed with the appointment of Martin but I have to say for the most part after a little wobble he has proved us all wrong.  He is not a big name and his previous CV wasn't spectacular but that no longer matters it's starting to feel like he could be the real deal and a good fit at last for the club so I guess they do deserve some credit for the appointment after two absolute disasters! We are now in the position where we will be calling it a bad season if we don't make the playoffs... That's progress from where we were and you can tell the players are enjoying playing for Martin he has definitely improved a lot of them.... I really hope we do make promotion as he has put a lot of work in, we may not be the most exciting team but at least we have a clear identity and he seems to have tweaked what wasn't working and seems to give 100% in his management style, i guess that's all we can ask? 

  • Like 3
StrangelyBrown

StrangelyBrown

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Myself and pretty much 90% of the fanbase were initially hugely underwhelmed with the appointment of Martin but I have to say for the most part after a little wobble he has proved us all wrong.  He is not a big name and his previous CV wasn't spectacular but that no longer matters it's starting to feel like he could be the real deal and a good fit at last for the club so I guess they do deserve some credit for the appointment after two absolute disasters! We are now in the position where we will be calling it a bad season if we don't make the playoffs... That's progress from where we were and you can tell the players are enjoying playing for Martin he has definitely improved a lot of them.... I really hope we do make promotion as he has put a lot of work in, we may not be the most exciting team but at least we have a clear identity and he seems to have tweaked what wasn't working and seems to give 100% in his management style, i guess that's all we can ask? 

Spot on. I was very much one of the doubters, but fair play to RM he has a vision, he's implemented his strategy, stuck with it when things weren't going well and more importantly seems to have recognised the failures and has fixed them. The latter part I wasn't convinced he was going to do, but something seemed to happen when calderwood was appointed and we now look like a frighteningly good side.

  • Like 5
david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mr X said:

Myself and pretty much 90% of the fanbase were initially hugely underwhelmed with the appointment of Martin but I have to say for the most part after a little wobble he has proved us all wrong.  He is not a big name and his previous CV wasn't spectacular but that no longer matters it's starting to feel like he could be the real deal and a good fit at last for the club so I guess they do deserve some credit for the appointment after two absolute disasters! We are now in the position where we will be calling it a bad season if we don't make the playoffs... That's progress from where we were and you can tell the players are enjoying playing for Martin he has definitely improved a lot of them.... I really hope we do make promotion as he has put a lot of work in, we may not be the most exciting team but at least we have a clear identity and he seems to have tweaked what wasn't working and seems to give 100% in his management style, i guess that's all we can ask? 

Lawrie McMenemy's famous man-management formula  "you have to kiss some, and kick the others " started to work after his first season's  relegation.

His subsequent squads got better and better with time, with the FA Cup win in 1976, and a promotion back to Div.1  two seasons afterwards, we looked darn good.

 

Nowadays, the " honeymoon period "  is much shorter (e.g.. Nathan Jones) and RM came into a newly-relegated club, who'd sold their best players 

and,... introduced his own strategy (Russ. ball)  and we had 3 " lucky " wins  (albeit against poor opposition) with all 3 won with late goals.

He had half of a new starting side, whilst the rest were mostly the young players who had survived the " cull " that followed the relegation.

Those young players whose fiery baptism in the  Premier League that will haunt then forever, have improved, (and even I  see a future for Mara).  

 

Given that most of RM's critics (on here) were fast out of the gate with calls for his sacking after those disasterous September fixtures, few

people  can now deny that 20 games unbeaten is very impressive and (although not always pretty).. for the most part, it has been very effective. 

Whatever the success of his management style is , Russell Martin has been " my manager of the month" every time since the beginning of October.  

Edited by david in sweden
  • Like 2
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted

Martin watch. Hair looks good, beard slightly over grown. Black hoodie with dark blue jacket and trousers questionable. The blue suede looking trainers were a huge let down. Tough tactical battle today so hopefully he’s mediated, journaled and had a pre match chick pea salad to keep his energy up. 

  • Haha 3
AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

Can't stand this tippy tappy football :rolleyes:

Thankfully, we are now quicker at getting the ball forward, and dont mind a CB trying a through-ball to a striker....

CSA96

CSA96

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

That's such a cringe picture. 

Miserable fucker :lol:

Thought it was quite a good piece of creative design, certainly above anything I could do :thumbup:

  • Like 2
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Just now, CSA96 said:

Miserable fucker :lol:

Thought it was quite a good piece of creative design, certainly above anything I could do :thumbup:

Sorry mate can't help what I like and don't like! Still stoked to get the record of course... 

  • Like 1
saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted

I take my hat off and congratulate RM on masterminding this record breaking run. I had big doubts about him after the 4 losses on the bounce but fair play to him, his coaches and the players because this is quite a ride we're on and long may it continue.

  • Like 6
gio1saints

gio1saints

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think RM Showed signs of tiredness and emo overstretch. Team played a bit like it too. Full throttle first half then emptied the tank lost direction and match mental purpose focus for last 20m. He said so in interview. 
 

He and team needs to recover that mental and physical energy and match focus this week.

Now the monkey that was the 21 record and a return to Swansea is off his back I hope that the intensity that we are used to seeing from saints late in matches returns. Need intensive recovery for sure. 

Edited by gio1saints
The Cat

The Cat

Posted
Posted

Both games against Swansea put to bed any of the chatter before about their fans not caring, or even being happy that he left.

Clapped off by them today and at St Mary's. 

"Swansea fans told us" was a standard forum exaggeration because a few of them on the internet weren't that fussed by his style. Turns out the Swansea fans who go to games actually like him.

  • Like 5
Suhari

Suhari

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Master Bates said:

Oh my, 157 shits on target, 20,000+ touches

 

Screenshot_20240122-210143_Samsung Internet.jpg

Impressive stats.

Though I'm curious. How do our expected shits compare to our completed and total shits on target?

  • Haha 3
Master Bates

Master Bates

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Suhari said:

Impressive stats.

Though I'm curious. How do our expected shits compare to our completed and total shits on target?

Damn, someone quoted before I could change it 🤣

  • Haha 3
goodymatt

goodymatt

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, EssEffCee said:

What in the blue hell is npxg?

Actually don't answer that anyone. Don't think I want to know.

Non-penalty expected goals 🤓

  • Confused 1
Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Suhari said:

Impressive stats.

Though I'm curious. How do our expected shits compare to our completed and total shits on target?

There's a Jason Puncheon joke in there somewhere.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2
SaintsFan86

SaintsFan86

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Rushworth - goalie of the week 😉

Tbf to him, He was very good. Wouldn't surprise me if he was a potential replacement for Bazunu if we don't go up.

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, SaintsFan86 said:

Tbf to him, He was very good. Wouldn't surprise me if he was a potential replacement for Bazunu if we don't go up.

He was superb. They'd have conceded at least a couple more without him. 

  • Like 2
SotonianWill

SotonianWill

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

He was superb. They'd have conceded at least a couple more without him. 

Was he the same keeper whose air-shot led to our goal in the home fixture? Or did they change goalkeepers.

  • Like 1
M271

M271

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

Was he the same keeper whose air-shot led to our goal in the home fixture? Or did they change goalkeepers.

It was the same goalkeeper

  • Like 1
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

Not sure if this is the thread really but is Carl Martin still on the coaching staff does anyone know? 

Excuse my unhealthy curiosity, but what prompted you to ask about him? 

Roo1976

Roo1976

Posted
Posted
On 18/01/2024 at 08:24, david in sweden said:

That season was 1973-74.   Lawrie McMenemy appointed assistant manager in summer 73, took over from Ted Bates.. (had been manager for 18 years)

In November 1973  Ted Bates took a back seat and ..Lawrie Mc. was appointed first team manager ....when Saints were  8th in the league.

Despite a 1-1 home draw v. Spurs in his first match, his teams won only twice in the following 10 games. 

The real nightmare began when we lost 0-7 at Ipswich in February 74.   (High scoring Ipswich finished 4th that season). 

 

Saints won only 3 times in the final 15 matches, and the very rare feat of beating Everton 3-0 at Goodison Park on the final day of the season

(with Peter Osgood scoring his first goal in his 10th appearance), was no consolation as we  finished in 18th place and were relegated To Div.2 

...along with Man Utd. and Norwich . (the first season that the bottom 3 teams were relegated).

 

There were no dramatic changes to the team (the exception was Brian O'Neil's absence) and the signings of Peach and Osgood was too little too late.

Mick Channon who had scored 16 times during the early part of the season.... managed just 5 goals in the last 26 games.

Major changes in the next two seasons were enough for us to get a team good enough to beat Man U in the 1976 Cup Final,

and McMenemy's " new look " gave us some great signings in the next 10 season (returning to the top tier in 1978).   

We finished top half every season afterwards, and narrowly missed the title in 1983-84 when finishing in 2nd place behind champions Liverpool.

 

NOTE to Bad Wolf..  if you weren't around to see games during  that period - you missed some of the best football in the entire Post-war period.

that was a good period agreed.

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