Russell Martin

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, saintant said:

I'd say there were at least 3 occasions in the first half alone when Swansea switched the ball quickly down Manning's flank and he was nowhere to be seen because he'd wandered into the middle. A better side than Swansea might well have exploited this. I get that it seems to be a deliberate ploy so maybe not right to blame Manning but it did and does concern me and I think we need to be mindful of the dangers it presents. Hard to be over critical when our goals against record is so good since the 4 straight losses but something we should keep a wary eye on imo.

It will cost us eventually, maybe in these tough away games we have in March and April. Need it sorted for the run in. 

[Osvaldorama]

We are fans at the end of the day, not professional football scouts. 
 

Yet we can still see when obvious flaws are showing and discuss them. Luckily we actually have a manager now that can also see the same problems and more importantly do something about it.  Unlike the last couple of appointments. The questions about Martin were fair. And he has answered them with aplomb. Which is also fair. 

[Whitey Grandad]

52 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Once.

No, it was twice.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

56 minutes ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

I think we all know that it is a deliberate tactic; it’s just that some of us on here think that we should not employ that tactic as often during a match as we seem to do.  There are certainly times when we should condense play to gain an advantage and we should do so.  But at other times we should be more conventionally wide in defence to minimise the chances of us conceding a goal.  In recent matches our failure to do that has not caused us to draw or lose but, as Trousers has recently pointed out in a different context, past performance is not a reliable guide for the future.  In our quest for automatic promotion we need to do everything that we can to get three points in every league game.

I haven't particularly paid attention to this tactic with our full backs but my general understanding has always been that a narrow defence is the best way to park the bus and stop goals? Let the opposition have the flanks where they can't score and then deal with anything that comes into the centre

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I haven't particularly paid attention to this tactic with our full backs but my general understanding has always been that a narrow defence is the best way to park the bus and stop goals? Let the opposition have the flanks where they can't score and then deal with anything that comes into the centre

Problem with that is that Swansea failing to score in the last game had very little to do with us and quite a bit more to do with their poor finishing and composure. 

[derry]

I'll keep my powder dry on my criticism of Manning's positional play. Leicester and Sunderland murdered us on the break due to the acreage wide left unattended. I can see Leicester, Leeds, Ipswich and especially Sunderland because of their early season success attacking that area on the break. We'll see in due course how good a tactic it is. I just think it's the way he plays and Martin lets him. Did anybody really expect Stephens to overlap and with KWP in front of him why would he? I think that Manning is a poor defender. We were better defensively with Bree at left back.

[Harry_SFC]

26 minutes ago, derry said:

I'll keep my powder dry on my criticism of Manning's positional play. Leicester and Sunderland murdered us on the break due to the acreage wide left unattended. I can see Leicester, Leeds, Ipswich and especially Sunderland because of their early season success attacking that area on the break. We'll see in due course how good a tactic it is. I just think it's the way he plays and Martin lets him. Did anybody really expect Stephens to overlap and with KWP in front of him why would he? I think that Manning is a poor defender. We were better defensively with Bree at left back.

At the end of the day Manning is actually a midfielder who's seemingly been converted into a left back. Maybe due to a lack of pace?

So the fact he isn't brilliant at defending shouldn't come as a great surprise. 

[Saint NL]

Yeah, yeah, you got me, I called Martin an idiot after that 4 game run of losses. Ok, he's proven his worth now, but at the time my comment was completely valid.

But, he's similar to Gareth Southgate in the way that the fans can't really fully take to him because of that strange reluctance to go for the kill. 

[Saint Matty 76]

19 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

Yeah, yeah, you got me, I called Martin an idiot after that 4 game run of losses. Ok, he's proven his worth now, but at the time my comment was completely valid.

But, he's similar to Gareth Southgate in the way that the fans can't really fully take to him because of that strange reluctance to go for the kill. 

Did you write this 2 weeks ago?

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, saintant said:

I'd say there were at least 3 occasions in the first half alone when Swansea switched the ball quickly down Manning's flank and he was nowhere to be seen because he'd wandered into the middle. A better side than Swansea might well have exploited this. I get that it seems to be a deliberate ploy so maybe not right to blame Manning but it did and does concern me and I think we need to be mindful of the dangers it presents. Hard to be over critical when our goals against record is so good since the 4 straight losses but something we should keep a wary eye on imo.

Plus it doesn't seem to happen when Bree plays. So it must be a Manning issue rather than deliberate tactics.

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, Saint NL said:

Yeah, yeah, you got me, I called Martin an idiot after that 4 game run of losses. Ok, he's proven his worth now, but at the time my comment was completely valid.

But, he's similar to Gareth Southgate in the way that the fans can't really fully take to him because of that strange reluctance to go for the kill. 

Fans can't take to Southgate because he's fucking useless 😅😆. 

[Dark Munster]

8 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

How incredibly pompous to dig up quotes from those who were frustrated enough to voice concerns.

Yeah I didn't like him or his football, it was ineffective trash at first. Now it is becoming more effective because RM has learned and altered the tactics, shape, lineup etc. 

My mistake was that I was wrong in thinking he'd be too stubborn to learn and change it (like many of his predecessors).

In any case, jobs not done. I like the football a lot more now, still a few games where we fall back into the slow ponderous play. I have warmed to RM though because he uses every game, good or bad to learn.

Maybe come back and crow when we get promoted eh?

Exactly this.

Maybe those who are now pompously criticising RM's critics should actually be admitting they were right, because against Swansea and Blackburn the team is finally playing in the way they've been demanding i.e. less sideways possession, and more direct attacking with our superior players. We didn't thrash those teams (and Leeds first half) with his default crab football, did we? Also RM has tightened up the defense, as his critics have also been demanding.

[Dark Munster]

9 hours ago, Turkish said:

talking of nicknames hows Wankersen these days? 

Still hiding after the Jones/Selles/relegation fiasco. But if we go up I'm sure he'll come out from behind the sofa and give a Powerpoint presentation on his brilliance in appointing Russell and Jason.

I was one of RM's fiercest critics, and still have my knives sharpened and ready if we fall back into that awful plodding, possession-obsession, propaganda football again.

But if RM can finally ditch the crab football completely, have the team play consistently as they did against Swansea, and finish in the top two, I'll be delighted to sing his praises. As I've said before, he seems to be a very good man manager, which is essential for long term success. There's no point in having great tactics if you lose the dressing room. So the bones are there for a good manager if he learns from his mistakes, unlike that plonker N. Jones.

I might even give begrudging credit to WAnkersen.

Edited 28 December, 2023 by Dark Munster

[Dusic]

51 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

Exactly this.

Maybe those who are now pompously criticising RM's critics should actually be admitting they were right, because against Swansea and Blackburn the team is finally playing in the way they've been demanding i.e. less sideways possession, and more direct attacking with our superior players. We didn't thrash those teams (and Leeds first half) with his default crab football, did we? Also RM has tightened up the defense, as his critics have also been demanding.

So basically you enjoy the style in the games where everything comes together well and we win easily. I'm sure the manager does too!

FFS Russell Martin, please ask the players to win 4-0 or 5-0 every week.

Edited 29 December, 2023 by Dusic

[OttawaSaint]

6 hours ago, The Cat said:

Wasn't directed at you but in general at those who were throwing words like cunt around. 

Why so impatient though? We all want the team to do well and we were told by the manager and club that it would take time but people decided to ignore that and just throw abuse instead despite the season barely having started.

Fair enough.

Why was I impatient?

I was fucking fed up really. We'd finally cut ties with RH and had a real opportunity to get in someone decent who could take the 5 weeks of the WC to get us up to speed to survive relegation. But our clowns got in NJ who watched back a couple of game tapes and then served up the worst football I've ever known Saints to play. They canned him and I was patient with RS but that was a disaster too. By the time we got to RM and then seeing the goals conceded while fannying around in our box, I couldn't take any more.

The key is that RM is learning and improving. I like what he's trying to do. He's not perfect though, (nobody is) and I'm sure we'll have many more periods of struggle but finally we seem to be united as club. Kudos to him for that. 

Edited 29 December, 2023 by OttawaSaint

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, Dusic said:

So basically you enjoy the style in the games where everything comes together well and we win easily. I'm sure the manager does too!

FFS Russell Martin, please ask the players to win 4-0 or 5-0 every week.

Good grief, who says that? So many straw men there that I think I'm having a hay fever attack.

For example the QPR 1-0 win was a good performance and what we're looking for, but we didn't win 4-0. That we only scored one goal was down to SR not bringing in a non-crocked goal scoring CF (again), not down to RM.

Edited 29 December, 2023 by Dark Munster

[Ex Lion Tamer]

3 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

Exactly this.

Maybe those who are now pompously criticising RM's critics should actually be admitting they were right, because against Swansea and Blackburn the team is finally playing in the way they've been demanding i.e. less sideways possession, and more direct attacking with our superior players. We didn't thrash those teams (and Leeds first half) with his default crab football, did we? Also RM has tightened up the defense, as his critics have also been demanding.

But if we'd sacked him when they said we should, he would never have had the chance to turn it around

[Dark Munster]

3 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

But if we'd sacked him when they said we should, he would never have had the chance to turn it around

That's true, plus paying compensation (on top of Ralph's and Jones').

[Patches O Houlihan]

15 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

How incredibly pompous to dig up quotes from those who were frustrated enough to voice concerns.

Yeah I didn't like him or his football, it was ineffective trash at first. Now it is becoming more effective because RM has learned and altered the tactics, shape, lineup etc. 

My mistake was that I was wrong in thinking he'd be too stubborn to learn and change it (like many of his predecessors).

In any case, jobs not done. I like the football a lot more now, still a few games where we fall back into the slow ponderous play. I have warmed to RM though because he uses every game, good or bad to learn.

Maybe come back and crow when we get promoted eh?

You do realise that play can look slow and ponderous on occasion because players in forward positions aren’t free to receive the ball?

One or two of our advanced players being a few yards away from ideal, or the opposition placed perfectly - or blocking the view of the ball player can all lead to recycling. 
 

It is not always purely down to tactics. 
 

And yes we have all got frustrated when breakaways have been unnecessarily slowed down; but at least some of those were down to a lack of individual player confidence in the moment - a trait alluded to endlessly by RM. 
 

We see less of it now because confidence and trust has built within the team. 

[Dusic]

5 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

Good grief, who says that? So many straw men there that I think I'm having a hay fever attack.

For example the QPR 1-0 win was a good performance and what we're looking for, but we didn't win 4-0. That we only scored one goal was down to SR not bringing in a non-crocked goal scoring CF (again), not down to RM.

As with most results, there are a combination of factors, some of which can't actually be controlled by Russell Martin or Sport Republic.

RM was very clear that it would take a bit of time for the players to get fully up to speed with his style, and that confidence was understandably low amongst the players who experienced relegation.

Whilst it suits you and a few others who consistently slagged him and his style since the start to say we have massively changed style of late, and he has fixed our defence etc, the reality is we play with the same principles as we have all season, its just that we are further along the line of the process that RM described, and have also playes some poor sides of late, with obviously some tweaks thrown in as would be the case with any good manager.

Eventually we will lose, and whenever that is (maybe today) it will probably be a combination us not executing our style as well as we have lately and the opponent playing well, which is also allowed to happen. It won't be because Russell Martin tells the players to play what you call "crab football".

 

Edited 29 December, 2023 by Dusic

[CB Fry]

13 hours ago, woodsaint1 said:

An absolutely catastrophic appointment is the most glowing endorsement 👍🏻. Im sure there are plenty of other whopper posts if I had've looked, but then again I wouldnt put it past you to delete old posts. You seem that pathetic

I haven't deleted any old posts sweetheart, they're all there for you x x x

The most pathetic thing on this thread is your own admission that you go along with whatever manager the club deem to be right because the very act of the club doing it makes it right.

So you drooled over Nathan Jones as the long term multi season manager because the club deemed it so, up until the point the club sacked him, which you also decided was right because the club deemed it so. 

Great idea, boss, yes I agree boss, whatever you say boss.

Older contributors to this forum will understand why I will describe you as the Phil Neal of SaintsWeb. 

 

[notnowcato]

2 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I haven't deleted any old posts sweetheart, they're all there for you x x x

The most pathetic thing on this thread is your own admission that you go along with whatever manager the club deem to be right because the very act of the club doing it makes it right.

So you drooled over Nathan Jones as the long term multi season manager because the club deemed it so, up until the point the club sacked him, which you also decided was right because the club deemed it so. 

Great idea, boss, yes I agree boss, whatever you say boss.

Older contributors to this forum will understand why I will describe you as the Phil Neal of SaintsWeb. 

 

FFS you 2, get a room. 

[notnowcato]

27 minutes ago, Dusic said:

As with most results, there are a combination of factors, some of which can't actually be controlled by Russell Martin or Sport Republic.

RM was very clear that it would take a bit of time for the players to get fully up to speed with his style, and that confidence was understandably low amongst the players who experienced relegation.

Whilst it suits you and a few others who consistently slagged him and his style since the start to say we have massively changed style of late, and he has fixed our defence etc, the reality is we play with the same principles as we have all season, its just that we are further along the line of the process that RM described, and have also playes some poor sides of late, with obviously some tweaks thrown in as would be the case with any good manager.

Eventually we will lose, and whenever that is (maybe today) it will probably be a combination us not executing our style as well as we have lately and the opponent playing well, which is also allowed to happen. It won't be because Russell Martin tells the players to play what you call "crab football".

 

Perfectly put. ✔️

[austsaint]

15 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Are you a qualified psychologist? If not thanks for your opinion that I am the problem - not those who sometimes use the forum as a means to spew personal abuse on others - but it’s telling you take this approach. 
 

Your comment is another example of how low some fellow supporters will go to put others down in a bid to win the argument. 

FWIW : Posting content that you believe to be true - in contradiction of a commentary that you feel is untrue, can indeed be brave. Especially when there are consequences such as personal abuse. 

 

When you talk about "those who sometimes use the forum as a means to spew personal abuse on others", and Turk's "comment being another example of how low some fellow supporters will go".       Weren't you the bloke who fired off a post calling me a "cnut and a non-entity"?    Does that unhinged piece of bile qualify as "spewing personal abuse on others".    I wasn't going to dignify your playground crap with a reply, but your breathtaking bull shit and hypocrisy forced my hand.

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, austsaint said:

When you talk about "those who sometimes use the forum as a means to spew personal abuse on others", and Turk's "comment being another example of how low some fellow supporters will go".       Weren't you the bloke who fired off a post calling me a "cnut and a non-entity"?    Does that unhinged piece of bile qualify as "spewing personal abuse on others".    I wasn't going to dignify your playground crap with a reply, but your breathtaking bull shit and hypocrisy forced my hand.

That’s it mate, be the bigger man 🙄
 

Could everyone else who’s been on the end of personal abuse from Gio form an orderly queue… oh, just you aust. I guess Gio is human after all. 

Edited 29 December, 2023 by notnowcato

[Badger]

21 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Lets see if we get promoted. Not going up this season = failure on Russell

This is the acid test of course. 

Our playing out from the back still concerns me but we haven’t conceded many recently or ballsed things up. Whether that’s due to us becoming better at it, or inept opposition is questionable, probably a mix of the two.

Had great doubts about RM after going to Sunderland ,  Leicester, and then our performance against Rotherham even.

But you can’t argue with results, so well done over the last 16 games. Hope he can maintain this momentum.  For me though it is now a case of judging at the end of the season. 
 

The one thing no one seems to have touched on is his age, only 38 next week. If he can get us up, the media will be blowing smoke up his arse.

[Charlie Wayman]

Having watched the the pathetic attempts of Arsenal and WHU to pass out from the back last night and not to be able to string three consecutive passes together especially at pace one has to admire what Martin has achieved in his six months or so here with players of allegedly inferior quality.

It may be an illusion of course as his system may be too clever for most Championship defences but it will be quite interesting to see how we fare against a middle ranking PL team, so fingers crossed we draw one of them at home in the 4th round of the FA Cup. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Things have certainly improved defensively since Calderwood came onboard, it could be a coincidence but we’ve certainly looked more secure since then. This isn’t t a criticism of Lego head, building a good coaching team around you is an important part of the role. I was particularly impressed with how we managed to play with Jack, Janny B & THB on Boxing Day because on paper and from past experience I thought it may have been a shit show. For all this possession pony, keeping it tight at the back is what will get us up and things are certainly looking up in that department. 

[Mr X]

If things continue than Martin is slowly winning me around.  I'm not a fan of slow ponderous Russ ball but we've now proved that when we want the play quicker attacking football we can and at the end of the day noone would be complaining about getting promoted through boring football at the end of the day 

[Toadhall Saint]

15 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

Fair enough.

Why was I impatient?

I was fucking fed up really. We'd finally cut ties with RH and had a real opportunity to get in someone decent who could take the 5 weeks of the WC to get us up to speed to survive relegation. But our clowns got in NJ who watched back a couple of game tapes and then served up the worst football I've ever known Saints to play. They canned him and I was patient with RS but that was a disaster too. By the time we got to RM and then seeing the goals conceded while fannying around in our box, I couldn't take any more.

The key is that RM is learning and improving. I like what he's trying to do. He's not perfect though, (nobody is) and I'm sure we'll have many more periods of struggle but finally we seem to be united as club. Kudos to him for that. 

Think this sums it up for me. I’m normally in the give more time camp but by the time I’d seen the god awful defending in some of our earlier games I’d had enough.

[woodsaint1]

9 hours ago, CB Fry said:

I haven't deleted any old posts sweetheart, they're all there for you x x x

The most pathetic thing on this thread is your own admission that you go along with whatever manager the club deem to be right because the very act of the club doing it makes it right.

So you drooled over Nathan Jones as the long term multi season manager because the club deemed it so, up until the point the club sacked him, which you also decided was right because the club deemed it so. 

Great idea, boss, yes I agree boss, whatever you say boss.

Older contributors to this forum will understand why I will describe you as the Phil Neal of SaintsWeb. 

 

An absolute catastrophic appointment. Thats all that ever needs said.

Enjoy the game. Plymouth might get the result you're hoping for so you can come on here and try to claw back some credibility 😘

[CSA96]

 

Edited 29 December, 2023 by CSA96

[skintsaint]

Edited.

 

Edited 31 December, 2023 by skintsaint

[Saint_clark]

On 29/12/2023 at 21:00, CSA96 said:

 

"How's that for honesty"

Yeah, we get it, you're too cool to talk to the prime minister.

[Patches O Houlihan]

6 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

"How's that for honesty"

Yeah, we get it, you're too cool to talk to the prime minister.

Or maybe he's a bleeding heart lefty like everyone from Brighton?! 

This forum often has a lot of support for Her Majesties opposition* 

It really does feel like there is nothing Russ could do or say to win over some fan's support - even setting an all time record for games unbeaten would likely not be enough. 

 

(*still can't get used to Chas running the show now)

 

[Badger]

On 29/12/2023 at 10:26, Badger said:

Our playing out from the back still concerns me but we haven’t conceded many recently or ballsed things up. Whether that’s due to us becoming better at it, or inept opposition is questionable, probably a mix of the two.

 

Looks like I tempted fate with this on Friday. 

[farawaysaint]

3 hours ago, Patches O Houlihan said:

Or maybe he's a bleeding heart lefty like everyone from Brighton?! 

This forum often has a lot of support for Her Majesties opposition* 

It really does feel like there is nothing Russ could do or say to win over some fan's support - even setting an all time record for games unbeaten would likely not be enough. 

 

(*still can't get used to Chas running the show now)

 

He is a green voter or was in his playing days. 

[Patches O Houlihan]

52 minutes ago, farawaysaint said:

He is a green voter or was in his playing days. 

So perhaps unsurprising that he's not in a hurry to meet Rishi - not "too cool to talk to the prime minister" more on the opposite side of the political spectrum.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, farawaysaint said:

He is a green voter or was in his playing days. 

Wonder if he knows what a woman is. 

[Weston Super Saint]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Wonder if he knows what a woman is. 

He's rooting for Eddie Izzard so that one is in doubt....

[Yorkshire Saint]

Happy birthday to you Russell Martin 

[Jack]

Let’s hope he’s another year wiser and starts playing everyone in their natural positions 

[Dark Munster]

[Lord Duckhunter]

[Miltonaggro]

27 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

How long did it take you to ice that?

[OldNick]

On 31/12/2023 at 17:34, farawaysaint said:

He is a green voter or was in his playing days. 

oh no, the players will be knackered by the time they have cycled to West Brom rather than fly, or is he like all the other Green /eco's of the world others have to make the sacrifices

[The Cat]

3 minutes ago, OldNick said:

oh no, the players will be knackered by the time they have cycled to West Brom rather than fly, or is he like all the other Green /eco's of the world others have to make the sacrifices

"Like all the other"

Nothing like a bit of mass generalisation on a Saturday morning. 

It would be like me saying "all the posters on this message board are massive twats" when it's actually only about 85% of them who are.

[OldNick]

5 minutes ago, The Cat said:

"Like all the other"

Nothing like a bit of mass generalisation on a Saturday morning. 

It would be like me saying "all the posters on this message board are massive twats" when it's actually only about 85% of them who are.

Fair point,

[Charlie Wayman]

Is there anybody in football that isn't "a great guy, I really like him and have a lot of respect for"?

Press conference or Book promotion?

Edited January 6 by Charlie Wayman

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

On 31/12/2023 at 17:34, farawaysaint said:

He is a green voter or was in his playing days. 

I've read somewhere he was staunch labour until his friend in Brighton stood for the Green party and so he switched in support of her.

Edit: just found the news article

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/23/russell-martin-footballer-joined-green-party-walsall

Edited January 6 by TheAlehouseBrawlers
Added link to news article