Russell Martin

[derry]

The biggest thing for me, he hasn't solved the problem of Manning drifting into the middle and gifting our left side to the opposition. That in itself has cost us goals and points. He needs to sort that out because as the season progresses it is a weakness that will be exploited by the better teams. Now that we are appearing to close the gap on Ipswich we can't afford his weakness. Bree or KWP are fine but his apparent preference for his ex Swansea player is worrying.

[OttawaSaint]

1 minute ago, The Cat said:

Many people voiced concerns in a normal way, but it was the others throwing around insults and name calling who are the ones who deserve to be called out.

Often the same people then embark on a long, tedious posting journey to try and back up their initial overreaction rather than apologising and admitting they were wrong.

Where have I done this? I was frustrated after another bad game, vented my anger.

I have repeatedly stated I was impatient at first and who can blame me. 

I think calling fans out is hypocritical. Why not give us time instead of throwing us under the bus eh? Works both ways.

[notnowcato]

7 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

That freezer is a cunt. Freezer out!

Don't jump to conclusions too quickly OS.... the defrosting takes time, rushing it with your mother's hair dryer is clearly a seaside B&B approach to the problem.

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, derry said:

The biggest thing for me, he hasn't solved the problem of Manning drifting into the middle and gifting our left side to the opposition. That in itself has cost us goals and points. He needs to sort that out because as the season progresses it is a weakness that will be exploited by the better teams. Now that we are appearing to close the gap on Ipswich we can't afford his weakness. Bree or KWP are fine but his apparent preference for his ex Swansea player is worrying.

Why does he allow that to keep on happening? On one occasion in the first half on Tuesday Manning was practically holding hands with Bednarek in the middle of the pitch. Meanwhile there was a whole quarter of the pitch that was empty of any Saints player. Swansea had a couple of good chances that came from our undefended left side.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Don't jump to conclusions too quickly OS.... the defrosting takes time, rushing it with your mother's hair dryer is clearly a seaside B&B approach to the problem.

I expect it’s all that scar tissue that’s causing the problem.

[gio1saints]

27 minutes ago, derry said:

The biggest thing for me, he hasn't solved the problem of Manning drifting into the middle and gifting our left side to the opposition. That in itself has cost us goals and points. He needs to sort that out because as the season progresses it is a weakness that will be exploited by the better teams. Now that we are appearing to close the gap on Ipswich we can't afford his weakness. Bree or KWP are fine but his apparent preference for his ex Swansea player is worrying.

There is a Jack Stephens article in the DE today in which he alludes to exactly the issue of our FB playing narrower than last season. And it explains exactly the phenomenon you accurately described for Manning. For JS he said it meant playing at RB was easier ( after first 10 minutes) than if he had been expected to be bombing on out wide as a conventional wide FB. 
 

In other words it’s a deliberate tactic. We seem to want to overload the centre that way and find a way to turn get it to either Sam or Adam wide of the goals. Of course if it goes wrong you are spot on- invariably there is a big space on our flanks for opponents to exploit.
It’s an interesting choice but I think it varies from game to game depending on if the opponents have got pacy wide forwards or not. 

Edited 28 December, 2023 by gio1saints

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, woodsaint1 said:

Never called for him to be sacked....but it was an absolutely catastrophic appointment. Lets just keep him in post for the banter. Good thing Wilcox etc did

In summary you searched and searched and searched couldn't find me saying he should be sacked.

He was and is employed to get us promoted, this season. Four dreadful defeats in September did not suggest that was likely, and even now automatic promotion is a reasonable distance away.

[Jack]

Bit sad to go digging up old posts. People were rightly concerned about throwing away stupid goals and points because of the obsession with a certain philosophy. Russball is adapting, thank god, for the better, and it’s now working pretty well. But just because it’s working now, it doesn’t mean there weren’t fundamental flaws with it before which cost us loads of silly points. 
 

 

Edited 28 December, 2023 by Jack

[saintant]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

Yeah, it's amusing when posters slag off the manager or players when things aren't going well, only for them to improve in due course...  How's Stu getting on these days...? Madness that Martin keeps selecting him.... 

 

 

Touche! 🙂

[saintant]

42 minutes ago, derry said:

The biggest thing for me, he hasn't solved the problem of Manning drifting into the middle and gifting our left side to the opposition. That in itself has cost us goals and points. He needs to sort that out because as the season progresses it is a weakness that will be exploited by the better teams. Now that we are appearing to close the gap on Ipswich we can't afford his weakness. Bree or KWP are fine but his apparent preference for his ex Swansea player is worrying.

Agree and I noticed he did it often in the first half against Swansea leaving his flank horribly exposed.

[trousers]

59 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

of course I and others who post in this vein will probably continue to be described as condescending c&nts patronising pric£s Russell’s brother / dad/ mum or a sanctimonious sermonising happy clapper idiot over and over again for simply stating the above

I could be wrong (just for a change ) but I think what grinds people's gears is not *what* you post but *how* you post it. Purely observational (rather than a 'personal attack') but you do have a somewhat condescending / patronising / sanctimonious style to your writing. It's probably unintentional, and you might not be aware of how it comes across, but it's a fair observation of your posting style, I would venture. (Not that that makes it 'right' or 'wrong'... I'm not judging, just observing)

Anyway, we all seem to be on the same wavelength at the moment regards the team's and manager's performances (huzzah!)  so let's all march forward together! (Said trousers in a potentially condescending/ patronising / sanctimonious way...  )

P.s. and, yes, I am aware my posting style has much annoyance potential too

 

Edited 28 December, 2023 by trousers

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

I could be wrong (just for a change) but I think what grinds people's gears is not *what* you post but *how* you post it. Purely observational (rather than a 'personal attack') but you do have a somewhat condescending / patronising / sanctimonious style to your writing. It's probably unintentional, and you might not be aware of how it comes across, but it's a fair observation of your posting style, I would venture.

Anyway, we all seem to be on the same wavelength at the moment so let's all match forward together! (Said trousers in a potentially condescending/ patronising / sanctimonious way...  )

P.s. and, yes, I am aware my posting style has much annoyance potential too

 

ignore the haters Trousers. This is beautiful, so brave of you.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

In the spirit of bringing ourselves back down to earth after a great win, there's three issues that I am worried about:

1) jack Stephens should not be playing at fullback

2) we will not find things as easy when teams come to defend against us. We may well find ourselves playing "sideways football" as we struggle to break teams down

3) related to that, we still need a clinical "fox in the box" striker to break the deadlock against tough teams

[Dusic]

1 hour ago, derry said:

The biggest thing for me, he hasn't solved the problem of Manning drifting into the middle and gifting our left side to the opposition. That in itself has cost us goals and points. He needs to sort that out because as the season progresses it is a weakness that will be exploited by the better teams. Now that we are appearing to close the gap on Ipswich we can't afford his weakness. Bree or KWP are fine but his apparent preference for his ex Swansea player is worrying.

If our biggest worry is our left back, who has played for Russell Martin thw longest out of anyone, doing something the manager is asking of him and sometimes being a bit too narrow then I think thats a sign we are in good shape.

[gio1saints]

6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

im not really sure how posting on a football forum is brave, not running away from challenges or why anyone would do it if it makes them depressed and effects their lives. I would say if you think that way, then the problem is you.

Are you a qualified psychologist? If not thanks for your opinion that I am the problem - not those who sometimes use the forum as a means to spew personal abuse on others - but it’s telling you take this approach. 
 

Your comment is another example of how low some fellow supporters will go to put others down in a bid to win the argument. 

FWIW : Posting content that you believe to be true - in contradiction of a commentary that you feel is untrue, can indeed be brave. Especially when there are consequences such as personal abuse. 

 

[notnowcato]

1 minute ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

In the spirit of bringing ourselves back down to earth after a great win, there's three issues that I am worried about:

1) jack Stephens should not be playing at fullback

2) we will not find things as easy when teams come to defend against us. We may well find ourselves playing "sideways football" as we struggle to break teams down

3) related to that, we still need a clinical "fox in the box" striker to break the deadlock against tough teams

Don't worry ELT, be happy.

1.  JS is a good choice for the demands of an inverted full back.  Brings more height to our team and in not top "son-in-law" material.

2. What system / philosophy / style always works when a team comes to defend?  Again, just be happy ELT, all is well.

3. Whilst lacking a "fox in the box" we're scoring many goals amongst the team and not many championship teams have a player that's scored more than AA - he's not a FITB but his all round game is generally more than good enough for this league. 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, gio1saints said:

Are you a qualified psychologist? If not thanks for your opinion that I am the problem - not those who sometimes use the forum as a means to spew personal abuse on others - but it’s telling you take this approach. 
 

Your comment is another example of how low some fellow supporters will go to put others down in a bid to win the argument. 

FWIW : Posting content that you believe to be true - in contradiction of a commentary that you feel is untrue, can indeed be brave. Especially when there are consequences such as personal abuse. 

 

No but i use a thing called common sense. Why do something completely pointless, like posting on a football forum, if it was making me depressed and my family was noticing? I'd ask myself if it was all worth it and stop.

The fact that you've taken this very simple guide as to what is important in life as some sort of personal attack on you kind of sums up why you, rather strangely, consider it brave to post on an anonymous forum where nothing you or anyone else posts matters one jot. 

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

In the spirit of bringing ourselves back down to earth after a great win, there's three issues that I am worried about:

1) jack Stephens should not be playing at fullback

2) we will not find things as easy when teams come to defend against us. We may well find ourselves playing "sideways football" as we struggle to break teams down

3) related to that, we still need a clinical "fox in the box" striker to break the deadlock against tough teams

The upside is that it's January shortly so we can address some of those problems. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

I certainly don't condone ad-hominen attacks on individuals. If I'm ever going to be critical then I endeavour to do it in a constructive manner, unlike certain others on here...

P..s. I'm far too busy defrosting a freezer with a hair dryer to trawl back through your posts at the moment, but duly noted for later...

 

Why have you "PAT" tested (sic) your hairdryer? What lunacy is this?

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Why have you "PAT" tested (sic) your hairdryer? What lunacy is this?

took it home from prison?

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, derry said:

The biggest thing for me, he hasn't solved the problem of Manning drifting into the middle and gifting our left side to the opposition. That in itself has cost us goals and points. He needs to sort that out because as the season progresses it is a weakness that will be exploited by the better teams. Now that we are appearing to close the gap on Ipswich we can't afford his weakness. Bree or KWP are fine but his apparent preference for his ex Swansea player is worrying.

Both Bree and KWP drift inside when playing left back. It's not a problem Martin has to or will fix if he's asking them to do it. It's a tactic he employs to cover other areas of the pitch and allows CM's to push higher up and win the ball higher up without the risk of being exploited behind them. Lots of top teams do it, it's a risk, reward thing and based on the results we're getting it seems fine. Full backs have to be out quicker of course when it goes wide, Swansea game for example, I think there was a clear plan to let the right back have the ball as he wasn't as big a threat as their centre midfield or left back for example. Manning is playing the role he's asked to, he's slightly unfairly criticised in my opinion. Especially the role he's being asked to play.

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Why have you "PAT" tested (sic) your hairdryer? What lunacy is this?

Certainly not lunacy. Very sensible and everybody should do it.

Mind you, it’s probably borrowed from the hairdresser’s where he/she works

[hypochondriac]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

Both Bree and KWP drift inside when playing left back. It's not a problem Martin has to or will fix if he's asking them to do it. It's a tactic he employs to cover other areas of the pitch and allows CM's to push higher up and win the ball higher up without the risk of being exploited behind them. Lots of top teams do it, it's a risk, reward thing and based on the results we're getting it seems fine. Full backs have to be out quicker of course when it goes wide, Swansea game for example, I think there was a clear plan to let the right back have the ball as he wasn't as big a threat as their centre midfield or left back for example. Manning is playing the role he's asked to, he's slightly unfairly criticised in my opinion. Especially the role he's being asked to play.

Both Swansea early chances came from our left when they were in acres of space. If it's a tactical thing then it's stupid because they could and arguably should have scored. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

Both Bree and KWP drift inside when playing left back. It's not a problem Martin has to or will fix if he's asking them to do it. It's a tactic he employs to cover other areas of the pitch and allows CM's to push higher up and win the ball higher up without the risk of being exploited behind them. Lots of top teams do it, it's a risk, reward thing and based on the results we're getting it seems fine. Full backs have to be out quicker of course when it goes wide, Swansea game for example, I think there was a clear plan to let the right back have the ball as he wasn't as big a threat as their centre midfield or left back for example. Manning is playing the role he's asked to, he's slightly unfairly criticised in my opinion. Especially the role he's being asked to play.

If this is true then it’s an idiotic concept. It’s equivalent to standing to one side of your goal and inviting the opposition to take a potshot. Just because we haven’t conceded in the last few games doesn’t mean that we’re not going to.

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If this is true then it’s an idiotic concept. It’s equivalent to standing to one side of your goal and inviting the opposition to take a potshot. Just because we haven’t conceded in the last few games doesn’t mean that we’re not going to.

Except, it's nothing like that because that isn't what I said or the plan. It's about risk and reward and finding the right areas to take those. I've no idea by the way, was just a thought and something I noticed as we were actively flooding the midfield to stop Grimes and Fulton dictating things. Winning the ball high and compressing play has been a big part of our success in the defensive side of things and inverted full backs is a big part of that. It means opening up space in wider areas and means our full backs do have to react quickly (which I agree Manning didn't do as well as he could on Boxing day). 

[Whitey Grandad]

7 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Except, it's nothing like that because that isn't what I said or the plan. It's about risk and reward and finding the right areas to take those. I've no idea by the way, was just a thought and something I noticed as we were actively flooding the midfield to stop Grimes and Fulton dictating things. Winning the ball high and compressing play has been a big part of our success in the defensive side of things and inverted full backs is a big part of that. It means opening up space in wider areas and means our full backs do have to react quickly (which I agree Manning didn't do as well as he could on Boxing day). 

Whatever. The end result is that we’re leaving our flank unnecessarily exposed. If you think that having Manning holding hands with Bednarek improves our midfield defences then it would take a long argument to convince me.

In any scenario, getting Manning out of the centre and out on the flank results in a tighter defence. We have got lucky so far.

[AlexLaw76]

33 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Both Swansea early chances came from our left when they were in acres of space. If it's a tactical thing then it's stupid because they could and arguably should have scored. 

Plymouth's star player comes from their wide right....very forward and direct

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Plymouth's star player comes from their wide right....very forward and direct

They've also been scoring a lot recently too. Hopefully we've identified that for this game at least. 

[Badger]

2 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

That freezer is a cunt. Freezer out!

I thought the Freezer looked a bit too bulky and immobile.

Full name must be Freezer Forster. 

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

The upside is that it's January shortly so we can address some of those problems. 

Just looked at their results, they have scored a lot in the last few games (and let in a few too). They have not been well beaten in any game, other than away to Leicester (4-0). They lost to Leeds 2-1 at Elland Rd and lost 3-2 away to Ipswich.

They have spread their goals about too...

Edited 28 December, 2023 by AlexLaw76

[stknowle]

53 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Both Swansea early chances came from our left when they were in acres of space. If it's a tactical thing then it's stupid because they could and arguably should have scored. 

Indeed. Twice.

[woodsaint1]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

In summary you searched and searched and searched couldn't find me saying he should be sacked.

He was and is employed to get us promoted, this season. Four dreadful defeats in September did not suggest that was likely, and even now automatic promotion is a reasonable distance away.

An absolutely catastrophic appointment is the most glowing endorsement 👍🏻. Im sure there are plenty of other whopper posts if I had've looked, but then again I wouldnt put it past you to delete old posts. You seem that pathetic

[Fabrice29]

37 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Whatever. The end result is that we’re leaving our flank unnecessarily exposed. If you think that having Manning holding hands with Bednarek improves our midfield defences then it would take a long argument to convince me.

In any scenario, getting Manning out of the centre and out on the flank results in a tighter defence. We have got lucky so far.

Haven’t said any of that but sure, whatever. 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Both Swansea early chances came from our left when they were in acres of space. If it's a tactical thing then it's stupid because they could and arguably should have scored. 

I remember one from the left, where they had time to measure a cross in.   The other good chance came from a free kick, central, crossed in and we failed to deal with it.

[notnowcato]

9 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Indeed. Twice.

Once.

[Tommy Mulgrew]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

There is a Jack Stephens article in the DE today in which he alludes to exactly the issue of our FB playing narrower than last season. And it explains exactly the phenomenon you accurately described for Manning. For JS he said it meant playing at RB was easier ( after first 10 minutes) than if he had been expected to be bombing on out wide as a conventional wide FB. 
 

In other words it’s a deliberate tactic. We seem to want to overload the centre that way and find a way to turn get it to either Sam or Adam wide of the goals. Of course if it goes wrong you are spot on- invariably there is a big space on our flanks for opponents to exploit.
It’s an interesting choice but I think it varies from game to game depending on if the opponents have got pacy wide forwards or not. 

I think we all know that it is a deliberate tactic; it’s just that some of us on here think that we should not employ that tactic as often during a match as we seem to do.  There are certainly times when we should condense play to gain an advantage and we should do so.  But at other times we should be more conventionally wide in defence to minimise the chances of us conceding a goal.  In recent matches our failure to do that has not caused us to draw or lose but, as Trousers has recently pointed out in a different context, past performance is not a reliable guide for the future.  In our quest for automatic promotion we need to do everything that we can to get three points in every league game.

[Tommy Mulgrew]

7 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

An absolutely catastrophic appointment is the most glowing endorsement 👍🏻. Im sure there are plenty of other whopper posts if I had've looked, but then again I wouldnt put it past you to delete old posts. You seem that pathetic

Woody, why the apparent personal vendetta?

Calm down, dear!

🤐

[Oh no Mick Mills]

2 hours ago, derry said:

The biggest thing for me, he hasn't solved the problem of Manning drifting into the middle and gifting our left side to the opposition. That in itself has cost us goals and points. He needs to sort that out because as the season progresses it is a weakness that will be exploited by the better teams. Now that we are appearing to close the gap on Ipswich we can't afford his weakness. Bree or KWP are fine but his apparent preference for his ex Swansea player is worrying.

We've let in 10 goals in our last 16 games. 

Leicester who are running away with the league have let in 12. 

Personally I think our defence is pretty sorted going by the numbers. 

 

 

 

 

[The Cat]

2 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

Where have I done this? I was frustrated after another bad game, vented my anger.

I have repeatedly stated I was impatient at first and who can blame me. 

I think calling fans out is hypocritical. Why not give us time instead of throwing us under the bus eh? Works both ways.

Wasn't directed at you but in general at those who were throwing words like cunt around. 

Why so impatient though? We all want the team to do well and we were told by the manager and club that it would take time but people decided to ignore that and just throw abuse instead despite the season barely having started.

[Fabrice29]

9 minutes ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

I think we all know that it is a deliberate tactic; it’s just that some of us on here think that we should not employ that tactic as often during a match as we seem to do.  There are certainly times when we should condense play to gain an advantage and we should do so.  But at other times we should be more conventionally wide in defence to minimise the chances of us conceding a goal.  In recent matches our failure to do that has not caused us to draw or lose but, as Trousers has recently pointed out in a different context, past performance is not a reliable guide for the future.  In our quest for automatic promotion we need to do everything that we can to get three points in every league game.

We are never going to cover everything single base. Teams will find ways to exploit us and we’ll adapt in game and between games accordingly. Manning/left back moving inside seems to have taken place after plenty of criticism Of KWP doing it on the other side. So the decision to bring the left back in has freed him up and allowed his form to improve. That’s good management.

 

Defensively our numbers are actively better too. Chances will happen, individuals will make mistakes and maybe our fullbacks won’t get out quick enough some times but it’s quite obviously we’ve improved and adapted and will continue to do so. It’s a big part of how we play offensively and defensively. I think backing our defenders to defend crosses is better plan than to back them to ask them to defend one on ones through the middle a lot. It won’t always work and that’s okay.

Edited 28 December, 2023 by Fabrice29

[hypochondriac]

14 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

I remember one from the left, where they had time to measure a cross in.   The other good chance came from a free kick, central, crossed in and we failed to deal with it.

They won the free kick because of the space on our left hand side. 

[notnowcato]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

They won the free kick because of the space on our left hand side. 

Not sure we're talking about the same free kick.  The free kick leading to their first chance was won from us losing possession in the middle of the park, when Downes played into Stu who had 3 Swans on him.

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Wasn't directed at you but in general at those who were throwing words like cunt around. 

Why so impatient though? We all want the team to do well and we were told by the manager and club that it would take time but people decided to ignore that and just throw abuse instead despite the season barely having started.

I have never called for Martin to be sacked and was defending him earlier in the season, but I absolutely understand why a large portion of the fanbase had little faith in the board's judgement given how terribly they fucked up appointing Nathan Jones. At the conclusion of those 4 losses it absolutely seemed like we were throwing away a chance to achieve something this year and that the board had gone for another clever appointment of a manager that Swansea fans and the evidence told us stuck slavishly to his tactics without changing them. We'd also just lost four in a row and some fans are going to express that frustration by getting pissed off and venting on here. I absolutely understand why some of them would do that so dragging up old posts from months ago is poor for in my opinion. We've all said thibgs that with hindsight would be incorrect. 

Edited 28 December, 2023 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Not sure we're talking about the same free kick.  The free kick leading to their first chance was won from us losing possession in the middle of the park, when Downes played into Stu who had 3 Swans on him.

I'd have to go back to look. Regardless, the amount of space they were getting down the left during the early part of the game was not good and led to chances that on another day could have resulted in us conceding is my point. 

[woodsaint1]

16 minutes ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

Woody, why the apparent personal vendetta?

Calm down, dear!

🤐

Nothing personal at all. Made a post about how laughable some of the old posts in this thread were and me old mate CB told exception to it (probably because he contributed to many of those posts) and had a go at me for a few posts I made 9-10 months ago

[hypochondriac]

Also worth point out that after a similar period of time people were calling Nathan Jones a cretin and were proven to be 100% correct whilst those defending him had some egg on their face. Like with most of these things, sometimes knee jerk opinions and emotional outbursts will be right and other times they're not. 

[The Cat]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I have never called for Martin to be sacked and was defending him earlier in the season, but I absolutely understand why a large portion of the fanbase had little faith in the board's judgement given how terribly they fucked up appointing Nathan Jones. At the conclusion of those 4 losses it absolutely seemed like we were throwing away a chance to achieve something this year and that the board had gone for another clever appointment of a manager that Swansea fans and the evidence told us stuck slavishly to his tactics without changing them. We'd also just lost four in a row and some fans are going to express that frustration by getting pissed off and venting on here. I absolutely understand why some of them would do that so dragging up old posts from months ago is poor for in my opinion. We've all said thibgs that with hindsight would be incorrect. 

I agree that people would be frustrated but that doesn't mean personal insults need to be thrown around on the internet does it? 

I obviously wasn't happy with 4 losses in a row but you need to give people time especially when changing styles so much.

[stknowle]

27 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'd have to go back to look. Regardless, the amount of space they were getting down the left during the early part of the game was not good and led to chances that on another day could have resulted in us conceding is my point. 

Exactly this. It led to the first two chances of the game. 

Edited 28 December, 2023 by stknowle

[saintant]

11 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'd have to go back to look. Regardless, the amount of space they were getting down the left during the early part of the game was not good and led to chances that on another day could have resulted in us conceding is my point. 

I'd say there were at least 3 occasions in the first half alone when Swansea switched the ball quickly down Manning's flank and he was nowhere to be seen because he'd wandered into the middle. A better side than Swansea might well have exploited this. I get that it seems to be a deliberate ploy so maybe not right to blame Manning but it did and does concern me and I think we need to be mindful of the dangers it presents. Hard to be over critical when our goals against record is so good since the 4 straight losses but something we should keep a wary eye on imo.

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, The Cat said:

I agree that people would be frustrated but that doesn't mean personal insults need to be thrown around on the internet does it? 

I obviously wasn't happy with 4 losses in a row but you need to give people time especially when changing styles so much.

You could have made the exact same point about Nathan Jones though. He was a complete cretin at the time and time has proven that to be even more correct. No doubt an emotional outburst like that was incorrect but I can understand it even if I disagree. Smugly posting about it months later seems a bit classless to me, particularly because some of those same posters have shown that they have also made their share of dumb posts in the past.