Russell Martin

[Miltonaggro]

21 hours ago, Maggie May said:

Why wouldn’t you compare RM to Adkins?

Right now Kieran McKenna is probably the best comparison to Adkins when we were last in this league.  Ipswich have carried the momentum and look like a genuine team.   

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, Miltonaggro said:

Right now Kieran McKenna is probably the best comparison to Adkins when we were last in this league.  Ipswich have carried the momentum and look like a genuine team.   

They don’t fucking fanny about with the ball.  Have no problems getting it in the onion bag though.  How is that possible Russ?

[Miltonaggro]

3 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

They don’t fucking fanny about with the ball.  Have no problems getting it in the onion bag though.  How is that possible Russ?

Indeed, rather like Saints in 2011/12 wouldn’t you say? 

[derry]

8 hours ago, Badger said:

Good idea, as some of his attacking play seems to be done at a similar pace to the statue. 

Paine O'Brien Reeves Mulgrew Sydenham.

Paine O'Brien Davies Melia Sydenham

Paine Channon Davies Burnside Sydenham

Those forward lines scored around a hundred goals a season and conceded around sixty. 

This football lacks the forwards and even if we had them the players behind them ignore penetrative runs and pass sideways counting passes. No wonder we're snatching at chances outnumbered up front.

[Farmer Saint]

Saints fans 2022-2023: I don't care how we play, I just want to win. Fuck it, I'd even take Sam Allardyce. 

Saints fans 2023-2024, after 13 games unbeaten: Our play and performances aren't good enough, despite the results. Get Martin out. 

"Hallelujah Noel, be it heaven or hell, the Christmas you get you deserve" 

 

 

Edited 15 December, 2023 by Farmer Saint

[Andrew Watson]

If you are happy with the tippy tappy dross Farmer Saint, I politely suggest that you stick to milking your cows.

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

Saints fans 2022-2023: I don't care how we play, I just want to win. Fuck it, I'd even take Sam Allardyce. 

Saints fans 2023-2024, after 13 games unbeaten: Our play and performances aren't good enough, despite the results. Get Martin out. 

"Hallelujah Noel, be it heaven or hell, the Christmas you get you deserve" 

 

 

2022-2023: We were playing like shit, but in the PL against some of the best club teams in the world.

2023-2024: We're playing well below the squad's capabilities against Championship dross.

[Farmer Saint]

8 hours ago, Andrew Watson said:

If you are happy with the tippy tappy dross Farmer Saint, I politely suggest that you stick to milking your cows.

I'll stick to milking your Mum thank you very much. 

Edited 16 December, 2023 by Farmer Saint

[Farmer Saint]

7 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

2022-2023: We were playing like shit, but in the PL against some of the best club teams in the world.

2023-2024: We're playing well below the squad's capabilities against Championship dross.

I'm not sure why you think our team is that good. We were fucking awful last season, and our squad is significantly weaker than the one we had then.

I think you may be vastly over-rating the quality of our team. And we're 4th in the League, 6 points clear of 7th. We're not going to get top 2, and to be fair, we shouldn't want to - this team is not good enough to be promoted back to the Prem. 

Would you prefer we were playing entertaining football, but potentially sitting outside the playoffs? One of the reasons we've been picking up points is due to the fact that we're conceding far less goals, because we're less wide open. You increase the openness, we're likely to concede more. 

[Whitey Grandad]

46 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I'm not sure why you think our team is that good. We were fucking awful last season, and our squad is significantly weaker than the one we had then.

I think you may be vastly over-rating the quality of our team. And we're 4th in the League, 6 points clear of 7th. We're not going to get top 2, and to be fair, we shouldn't want to - this team is not good enough to be promoted back to the Prem. 

Would you prefer we were playing entertaining football, but potentially sitting outside the playoffs? One of the reasons we've been picking up points is due to the fact that we're conceding far less goals, because we're less wide open. You increase the openness, we're likely to concede more. 

1.   Oh yes please. What other reasons are there to pay to watch us?

2.   We’re likely to score more. You may think we’re less wide open but one inevitable mistake or one misplaced pass and the opposition pounce on it instantly but what’s also important is that because we’re passing the ball around just outside our own penalty area they are within attacking range of our goal against a defence that is wrong-footed and is playing all their attackers onside.

It’s idiotic lunacy.

[FarehamSaintJames]

I think the issue is you look at other teams and they play to their players strengths.

Leicester are too this season because they have largely left three players up top with an insane amount of pace who are willing to run at defences and largely play counter attacking football.

Us for example have quick players in Armstrong, Edozie, Sulemana, KWP etc, but whenever we have the ball in the centre of midfield we don’t push forward, we pass sideways. If we have the opportunity to run one on one with a defender we do not attack, we hold and wait for other players to become available, and subsequently for the defence to return in front of them.
Sideways football is great if you want to dominate games, but it isn’t clinical.

If you run at defences and have that high intensity you are more likely to be clinical and score rather than a striker who has watched his team pass for thirty minutes waiting for a tap in.

Results are what count in the end, not the style of play.
I’m sure if we go the rest of the season unbeaten and finish mid table no one is going to be saying “phenomenal season”, well apart from RM.

We need to be intense and out teams to the sword. Look at the way Leicester and Leeds play.

Opposition teams facing us don’t ultimately have to do much, because they no we won’t threaten intensely.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

8 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

We need to be intense and out teams to the sword. Look at the way Leicester and Leeds play.

Opposition teams facing us don’t ultimately have to do much, because they no we won’t threaten intensely.

We're level on points with Leeds, why would we want to change to their style?

And Leicester are a possession team playing the man city way under their former assistant manager.

 

 

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

We're level on points with Leeds, why would we want to change to their style?

And Leicester are a possession team playing the man city way under their former assistant manager

There's nothing wrong with possession based football per se, many of us just prefer the more aggressive/intense version we saw today rather than the ultra-safe/pedestrian version that we've witnessed more often than not this season. More of the same as today please. 

[hypochondriac]

On 14/12/2023 at 12:41, hypochondriac said:

I think people need a bit of perspective. If everyone was told our points tally at this point of the season when we started the season then almost everyone would be biting your hand off. Yes the style could be better and we could be winning games more convincingly, but the vast majority would have been predicting playoffs after our summer of upheaval. We're probably performing slightly above where I expected us to be given we are now very comfortably in the playoffs. Lets bring some goals in in January and some creativity and hopefully we will find that some of our lack of domination is down to personnel rather than just the system.

Stand by this. Not too low or high after a performance. Overall this season we are doing very well. 

[Grim Reaper]

Don’t like the bloke, don’t like his hair style, Martin out !

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Leeds drawing at home to Coventry today puts our midweek performance into some perspective

[West end Saints]

On 13/12/2023 at 23:26, West end Saints said:

This is sort of thread that other fans would take the piss out of.. 

A manager who had 4 defeats in a row early in his time at a club immediately turns that into 

W

W

D

W

D

W

W

W

D

W

W

D

D

and fans are talking about whether he should be sacked, or giving him 4 out of 10!

He is not pep, and we want to be higher but how entitled does this thread look! 

Success isn't guaranteed in football. 

If any of you were offered a manager who was, after those 4 defeats, capable of turning form around, into this sort of run, you would have bitten their hand off! 

He is not perfect, not great, makes mistakes, we are not scoring enough or killing games off, but chances are that most of your pre appointment suggestions wouldn't have achieved this run. 

 

This run is looking pretty good. 

Any fan, on the back of those defeats, and with our squad, would have said if a manager could turn those defeats into this run he would be doing an excellent job. 

Tbh, although he clearly isn't perfect, and there are still some frustrations, and I get that the skillful short passing game isn't to everyone's taste, I am a bit cynical, and wonder if the small, but very vocal posters who still give him 5 out of 10, are trolling. 

Enjoyed my afternoon, and seeing this run build

[Convict Colony]

Came in here the other night annoyed and frustrated so its only right i say what a great job he did today, team was agressive and on the front foot, way higher up the pitch, thought aribo had a great game as well.

All the subs were good but both Charly and Mara were really impactful and am really happy for both of them.

Became complacent about Fraser as he always delivers off the bench, if only we can get 90mins of it out of him.

Well done coaching staff, good game and clean sheet.

Edited 16 December, 2023 by Convict Colony

[Dusic]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

There's nothing wrong with possession based football per se, many of us just prefer the more aggressive/intense version we saw today rather than the ultra-safe/pedestrian version that we've witnessed more often than not this season. More of the same as today please. 

Basically you like it when we play our style well/are enabled to by the opponent, and take our chances, rather than when we don't.

Which makes complete sense. 

We are 13 or 14 unbeaten and had people earlier this week saying he has done a 5/10 job which is frankly ridiculous.

Edited 16 December, 2023 by Dusic

[Dark Munster]

4 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Basically you like it when we play our style well/are enabled to by the opponent, and take our chances, rather than when we don't.

Which makes complete sense. 

We are 13 or 14 unbeaten and had people earlier this week saying he has done a 5/10 job which is frankly ridiculous.

Not when rating the whole season, it's not. Today was good, make no mistake, but it shows (1) we have a more than capable squad if utilised properly, and (2) should be happening regularly, not propaganda, pedestrian, crab football most of the time.

[trousers]

18 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Basically you like it when we play our style well/are enabled to by the opponent, and take our chances, rather than when we don't.

I disagree with that characterisation. I believe Martin consciously deploys two variations of his underlying tactics... One is more passive and pedestrian, the other is more aggressive and intense. We've seen more of the former than the latter this season. No worries if you see things differently though. We'll have to agree to disagree. 

Edited 16 December, 2023 by trousers

[Badger]

55 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

….  only right i say what a great job he did today, team was agressive and on the front foot,

 

Exactly the sort of performance we need, being on the front foot and aggressive.

Where have I heard that before, and who from ? 

[Saint Matty 76]

35 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

Not when rating the whole season, it's not. Today was good, make no mistake, but it shows (1) we have a more than capable squad if utilised properly, and (2) should be happening regularly, not propaganda, pedestrian, crab football most of the time.

Or you could say this style of football nullified a play-off level team and made them look terrible? Bit strange from our fans to take it this way really

[FarehamSaintJames]

Did not agree with the lack of a striker, I thought for the first 35 minutes we struggled with no player in that central front third.

But fantastic performance all round. 👏🏻

Can’t fault today, good subs, tactics paid off and it was very dominant even when Blackburn still had eleven men.

We've been due a win like that so it’s nice to see it come to fruition.

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Did not agree with the lack of a striker, I thought for the first 35 minutes we struggled with no player in that central front third.

But fantastic performance all round. 👏🏻

Can’t fault today, good subs, tactics paid off and it was very dominant even when Blackburn still had eleven men.

We've been due a win like that so it’s nice to see it come to fruition.

I woild still like us to produce a performance like this against 11 men for 90 minutes but beggers can't really be choosers in a day like today. I still want some assurance that our approach will work longer term. 

[S-Clarke]

30 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I woild still like us to produce a performance like this against 11 men for 90 minutes but beggers can't really be choosers in a day like today. I still want some assurance that our approach will work longer term. 

I thought our performance against Cardiff was just as dominant, a 4-0 wouldn't have been an unfair result that day.

We're getting better, goals are coming from all angles and from the subs which is great to see. Genuine strength and depth that only Leeds and Leicester can compete with if we're honest.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

I thought our performance against Cardiff was just as dominant, a 4-0 wouldn't have been an unfair result that day.

We're getting better, goals are coming from all angles and from the subs which is great to see. Genuine strength and depth that only Leeds and Leicester can compete with if we're honest.

Worth bearing in mind though that prior to this game we had draw two which although creditable results, we're frustrating because we didn't create enough so goals were very much not coming from all angles. I'd just like to see us scoring multiple goals to sew a game up by half time and scoring in multiples during our periods of dominance rather than waiting until someone goals down to ten men in the 60th minute to score more than 1 but like I said beggars can't be choosers on a day like today. We were excellent and long may that continue. 

[S-Clarke]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Worth bearing in mind though that prior to this game we had draw two which although creditable results, we're frustrating because we didn't create enough so goals were very much not coming from all angles. I'd just like to see us scoring multiple goals to sew a game up by half time and scoring in multiples during our periods of dominance rather than waiting until someone goals down to ten men in the 60th minute to score more than 1 but like I said beggars can't be choosers on a day like today. We were excellent and long may that continue. 

But in the form they're in, a point away at Watford is pretty decent to be honest. The fact we could have got a win there is a positive, maybe frustrating, but Watford is not an easy place to go - they're flying at the moment, some genuine PL quality in their team.

Same with Cov really, they're starting to pick up a bit now. Not mugs by any means, one of the toughest aways last season. I'd have taken those two points.

Now QPR away is another story....

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

But in the form they're in, a point away at Watford is pretty decent to be honest. The fact we could have got a win there is a positive, maybe frustrating, but Watford is not an easy place to go - they're flying at the moment, some genuine PL quality in their team.

Same with Cov really, they're starting to pick up a bit now. Not mugs by any means, one of the toughest aways last season. I'd have taken those two points.

Now QPR away is another story....

I didn't say they weren't good results (in fact I said the opposite) but it's not really a question that we have been scoring less than our promotion rivals and have yet to dominate a game to the extent that we are multiple goals to the good and cruising by half time or early in the game. Today was a great performance as I said but even then we scored two right at the end of the game and only added to our 1 goal lead after Blackburn had a man sent off. Had we not scored right at the end of the half, we would have been looking at another frustrating half of football where our clear dominance had not led to a lead and too many times this year that has happened and we've actually thrown games away. 

I think we've undoubtedly improved but I would like some more now and that means dominating some of the teams in this league and racking up some high scoring goals and putting games to bed. 

Edited 16 December, 2023 by hypochondriac

[Dusic]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

I disagree with that characterisation. I believe Martin consciously deploys two variations of his underlying tactics... One is more passive and pedestrian, the other is more aggressive and intense. We've seen more of the former than the latter this season. No worries if you see things differently though. We'll have to agree to disagree. 

Of course fine to disagree and obviously there will be tweaks based on selection and opponent but would be amazed if Martin ever setup to be intentionally passive and pedestrian as it goes against pretty much everything he says.

The reality is teams don't play to the same level every week and very few, if any, managers experience having a team that is 8 or 9/10 every single week.

It feels like for some the expectation of Russell Martin is to win every game by multiple goals and until then there will be a suspicion of him, which seems pretty unrealistic.

This season we are very close to the 2pts per game level that ordinarily leads to nailed on promotion and are currently on a 14 game unbeaten run, all whilst having drastically changed the style of play.

IMO it seems like things are going pretty well and my main frustration is that very realistically we could have the extra 7 or 8 points needed to be right up there. If we can become a little more free scoring away from home then we can definitely still get auto promotion in my opinion.

 

Edited 16 December, 2023 by Dusic

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Of course fine to disagree and obviously there will be tweaks based on selection and opponent but would be amazed if Martin ever setup to be intentionally passive and pedestrian as it goes against pretty much everything he says.

The reality is teams don't play to the same level every week and very few, if any, managers experience having a team that is 8 or 9/10 every single week.

It feels like for some the expectation of Russell Martin is to win every game by multiple goals and until then there will be a suspicion of him, which seems pretty unrealistic.

This season we are very close to the 2pts per game level that ordinarily leads to nailed on promotion and are currently on a 14 game unbeaten run, all whilst having drastically changed the style of play.

IMO it seems like things are going pretty well and my main frustration is that very realistically we could have the extra 7 or 8 points needed to be right up there.

 

Fair points. I'm open to persuasion... 👍

Edited 16 December, 2023 by trousers

[CityRanger]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

I disagree with that characterisation. I believe Martin consciously deploys two variations of his underlying tactics... One is more passive and pedestrian, the other is more aggressive and intense. We've seen more of the former than the latter this season. No worries if you see things differently though. We'll have to agree to disagree. 

That’s an interesting theory

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, CityRanger said:

That’s an interesting theory

I accept I could be talking bollocks most/all of the time but I uphold my right to do so...

[Fabrice29]

50 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Worth bearing in mind though that prior to this game we had draw two which although creditable results, we're frustrating because we didn't create enough so goals were very much not coming from all angles. I'd just like to see us scoring multiple goals to sew a game up by half time and scoring in multiples during our periods of dominance rather than waiting until someone goals down to ten men in the 60th minute to score more than 1 but like I said beggars can't be choosers on a day like today. We were excellent and long may that continue. 

ffs  

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

ffs  

I'm hoping your smiley implies your reaction is a joke. I couldn't have qualified my reply much more than I did! 

[Farmer Saint]

I really hope we stay unbeaten, but play really fucking boring football. Be interesting to see what you lot do in that situation. 

[John B]

On 15/12/2023 at 21:18, derry said:

Paine O'Brien Reeves Mulgrew Sydenham.

Paine O'Brien Davies Melia Sydenham

Paine Channon Davies Burnside Sydenham

Those forward lines scored around a hundred goals a season and conceded around sixty. 

This football lacks the forwards and even if we had them the players behind them ignore penetrative runs and pass sideways counting passes. No wonder we're snatching at chances outnumbered up front.

I agree with your sentiments but you missed out Chivers in your second sentence and I doubt Burnside played with Channon and Davies

 

[hypochondriac]

23 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I really hope we stay unbeaten, but play really fucking boring football. Be interesting to see what you lot do in that situation. 

Depends how many we draw I expect. 

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Depends how many we draw I expect. 

I think just maintain the current ratio. 

[gammon cheeks]

WE GOT MARTIN   WHO ?  

RUSSELL MARTIN

I JUST DONT THINK YOU UNDERSTAND

BUILDS FROM THE BACK

POSSESSION TO ATTACK

WE GOT RUSSELL MARTIN

[John B]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Fair points. I'm open to persuasion... 👍

Also I would have thought cnsideration should be given to opposition we are playing against as Blackburn were hopeless and Coventry and Watford were not if today's results are anything to go by

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I think just maintain the current ratio. 

Not sure about others but if be fine with that. For me the only concern is not scoring enough will inevitably mean that we end up drawing and losing games we should be winning which may prove costly. Fine margins obviously at the top of the table. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

Isn’t it nice to have a manager who doesn’t select useless inferior players for off the ball work rate ? Everything is starting to come together nicely now 14 unbeaten and the squad are competing for places ..

russ is also doing a great job of getting the best out of players many had written off, the likes of Arma,Aribo, bree all starting to flourish and maybe Mara is next  .

full credit to the man was looking under pressure to keep his job at the start of the season and look at us now

[Ex Lion Tamer]

On 13/12/2023 at 23:26, West end Saints said:

He is not perfect, not great, makes mistakes, we are not scoring enough or killing games off, but chances are that most of your pre appointment suggestions wouldn't have achieved this run. 

Anyone still think Gerrard or Lampard would be doing a better job?

[Farmer Saint]

24 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Not sure about others but if be fine with that. For me the only concern is not scoring enough will inevitably mean that we end up drawing and losing games we should be winning which may prove costly. Fine margins obviously at the top of the table. 

Forgotten what losing is like tbh. No fine margins atm, top 2 are done and we'll get playoffs. Just love to see the entitled moan that we're not spunking over all and sundrie, and playing like 1970s Brazil. 

[hypochondriac]

49 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Forgotten what losing is like tbh. No fine margins atm, top 2 are done and we'll get playoffs. Just love to see the entitled moan that we're not spunking over all and sundrie, and playing like 1970s Brazil. 

No it isn't. More likely than not that we don't get above either of the top 2 but ten points is not insurmountable with more than half a season left. Not inconceivable that Ipswich get hit with an injury crisis or something like that. Two losses in a row for them with two wins for us and it's down to 4.

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, gammon cheeks said:

WE GOT MARTIN   WHO ?  

RUSSELL MARTIN

I JUST DONT THINK YOU UNDERSTAND

BUILDS FROM THE BACK

POSSESSION TO ATTACK

WE GOT RUSSELL MARTIN

WE GOT MARTIN  WHO ?  

RUSSELL MARTIN

I JUST DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND

BUILDS WITHOUT AGGRESSION

POSSESSION AND POSSESSION

WE GOT RUSSELL MARTIN

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Anyone still think Gerrard or Lampard would be doing a better job?

I don't recall anyone who did.

Incidentally, what are your thoughts on the Ipswich manager?

[West end Saints]

13 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

I don't recall anyone who did.

Incidentally, what are your thoughts on the Ipswich manager?

Can you imagine the bedwetting if we had appointed him, with no championship experience, there would have been some amusing rants. He is doing great though, and I'm sure catching the eye of bigger clubs. 

There are still a few being stubborn though.. Knowing following the 4 defeats, that it would take a really good manager to get a run like our current one. 

He is doing pretty damn good, accept and enjoy! 

I've just seen how recently on this thread posters moaning saying the club should be brave enough to get rid of him.... Clueless! 

 

[maysie]

5 hours ago, trousers said:

I disagree with that characterisation. I believe Martin consciously deploys two variations of his underlying tactics... One is more passive and pedestrian, the other is more aggressive and intense. We've seen more of the former than the latter this season. No worries if you see things differently though. We'll have to agree to disagree. 

You are a passive aggressive helmet.