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Russell Martin

LegalEagle

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

Some food for thought.

Russell Martin has lost the same amount of Championship games as Nigel Adkins did at this stage of the season during our 2011/12 promotion campaign. 

cOmpArE uS tO bUrNLeY LaSt yEaR noW

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted

Supporters are so ungrateful. If you discount Sept, the games against Coventry, Huddersfield, Rotherham & Watford, we’ve been on a brilliant run playing an exciting brand of football never witnessed before.  We’d be top of the league if it wasn’t for Leicester, Leeds & Ipswich and if it was 4 up automatically we’d be in a promotion spot. 

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The Cat

The Cat

Posted
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8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Supporters are so ungrateful. If you discount Sept, the games against Coventry, Huddersfield, Rotherham & Watford, we’ve been on a brilliant run playing an exciting brand of football never witnessed before.  We’d be top of the league if it wasn’t for Leicester, Leeds & Ipswich and if it was 4 up automatically we’d be in a promotion spot. 

What are you blathering on about now?

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FarehamSaintJames

FarehamSaintJames

Posted
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Playing well means absolute Jack if you don’t convert chances.

If this was a game between 17th and 18th in the Prem, last game of the season and we had all the possession but the other team did a smash and grab and won 1-0 and stayed up, it means significantly more than “how we played”.

We don’t scare teams. We sit and wait, but the thing is so do the opposition, and that’s normally where the errors crop up.

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted (edited)

We’re ‘brave’ at the back because there’s a lot of space there and we don’t have to work that hard to move the ball.

Up front it’s different.  Our movement is shit and the players ‘recycle’ too much.  I swear a fucking 45 year old could play in n our midfield and not look out of place just knocking it back all the time.

Last time we were in the Championship under Adkins, we moved forward quickly, loads of quick two touch, and we had a guy up front who could actually finish.

This side are nowhere near that. We won’t be anywhere near top two continuing with the style of football we played last night.  

Edited by Wade Garrett
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notnowcato

notnowcato

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

We’re ‘brave’ at the back because there’s a lot of space there and we don’t have to work that hard to move the ball.

Up front it’s different.  Our movement is shit and the players ‘recycle’ too much.  I swear a fucking 45 year old could play in n our midfield and not look out of place just knocking it back all the time.

Last time we were in the Championship under Adkins, we moved forward quickly, loads of quick two touch, and we had a guy up front who could actually finish.

This side are nowhere near that. We won’t be anywhere near top two continuing with the style of football we played last night.  

The way we played created enough chances to win that game comfortably, not AAs finest night. 
Conversely, the way we played created Covs goal. 

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saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Russell Martin has lost less games this season than Man Utd and Newcastle and has lost the same amount as Tottenham.  Plus, he's only lost one more than Man City and all those teams have played less games, so could easily lose more.

Apples and oranges.

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Toussaint

Toussaint

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Posted
1 hour ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Playing well means absolute Jack if you don’t convert chances.

If this was a game between 17th and 18th in the Prem, last game of the season and we had all the possession but the other team did a smash and grab and won 1-0 and stayed up, it means significantly more than “how we played”.

We don’t scare teams. We sit and wait, but the thing is so do the opposition, and that’s normally where the errors crop up.

I’d dispute we are playing that well. I think the possession style creates an illusion of playing well. 

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted

I think people need a bit of perspective. If everyone was told our points tally at this point of the season when we started the season then almost everyone would be biting your hand off. Yes the style could be better and we could be winning games more convincingly, but the vast majority would have been predicting playoffs after our summer of upheaval. We're probably performing slightly above where I expected us to be given we are now very comfortably in the playoffs. Lets bring some goals in in January and some creativity and hopefully we will find that some of our lack of domination is down to personnel rather than just the system.

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

I think people need a bit of perspective. If everyone was told our points tally at this point of the season when we started the season then almost everyone would be biting your hand off. Yes the style could be better and we could be winning games more convincingly, but the vast majority would have been predicting playoffs after our summer of upheaval. We're probably performing slightly above where I expected us to be given we are now very comfortably in the playoffs. Lets bring some goals in in January and some creativity and hopefully we will find that some of our lack of domination is down to personnel rather than just the system.

We won't bring in any goals if we continue to play the same way. 

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We won't bring in any goals if we continue to play the same way. 

Well we don't know for sure do we. Armstrong has certainly been more prolific this year and Che Adams couldn't hit a cow's arse before this new style came in. I'd like to see what a more creative AM and clinical finisher could do in this system before writing it off entirely. 

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saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Well we don't know for sure do we. Armstrong has certainly been more prolific this year and Che Adams couldn't hit a cow's arse before this new style came in. I'd like to see what a more creative AM and clinical finisher could do in this system before writing it off entirely. 

I think some of us are less than convinced with our style of play which continues to be possession for possession's sake and no apparent ideas to develop this into a system that creates good chances. It's all pedestrian, predictable and boring. Surely there needs to be a step forward, a transition that shows what we are working on has an ultimate goal. At present we are not a good watch and 70% of games seem to be spent making meaningless passes without actually getting anywhere. Let's see some signs of progress rather than the status quo.

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richardc

richardc

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Russell Martin has lost less games this season than Man Utd and Newcastle and has lost the same amount as Tottenham.  Plus, he's only lost one more than Man City and all those teams have played less games, so could easily lose more.

Excellent point - and their positions are 4th, 5th  and 6th basically where we are - they only slight difference is they are in the premier league and not 14 points behind where they need to be - but other than that well worth pointing out

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Morse

Morse

Posted
Posted

You can argue this possession based football is a success, after all we're comfortably in the playoffs and on a long unbeaten run.

You can also argue with the players we've got, and resources available we should be in an automatic promotion place,  and that too many of our unbeaten streak have been draws in games we should be winning. 

But what is unarguable is the football is dull as dishwater to watch. A turgid yawn fest capable of trying the patience of any Saint.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, saintant said:

I think some of us are less than convinced with our style of play which continues to be possession for possession's sake and no apparent ideas to develop this into a system that creates good chances. It's all pedestrian, predictable and boring. Surely there needs to be a step forward, a transition that shows what we are working on has an ultimate goal. At present we are not a good watch and 70% of games seem to be spent making meaningless passes without actually getting anywhere. Let's see some signs of progress rather than the status quo.

I would say the results are a clear sign of progress when we haven't even had half a season yet and when we lost as many players as we did over the course of the summer. If we get to this time next year with some different players and the same deficiencies that would be the time for me to question if this is the right pathway. I don't think anyone can seriously argue that we haven't seen signs of progress this year although clearly we would like a bit more in terms of penetration and ultimately goals. 

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whiteleySaint30

whiteleySaint30

Posted
Posted

Bores the #hit out of me that people bang on about being 13 unbeaten. We would actually have been better off losing 3 of those draws if we could have converted the other 2 into wins. 

You could go unbeaten all season and only end up with 46 points - what's the point of that?

Ankersons very own 'Ted talks' pretty much confirms our current league position is not sustainable if we don't improve our goal difference............... 

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Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted

Last season Sport Republic gambled on the recruitment of young players and left-field management and personally I was really hoping we wouldn't see a repeat this season, but we are where we are.  Watching the club fail as a naïve work experience project ending in relegation was awful, and if there is 'scar tissue' at the club it's mainly with the supporters. 

This year we are considerably better shape and suffering mainly due to the remarkable form of the top two as others have pointed out, but worth remembering that Russell Martin is still a 'project' and is learning on the job in terms of fan / board expectation, media attention, and management / calibre of player.  Martin's defensiveness and nark with the media and on the touchline shows that he is under pressure despite the unbeaten run and regardless of his positive soundbites.  I like that he gives a shit!  He knows that with this squad he is expected to challenge for the top two and it must be frustrating for him that his side have only really clicked for three halves of football this season, the first half against Leeds, and Cardiff just twelve days ago when we looked terrific and should have won five or six nil if it wasn't for the finishing.  So there is the rub, if it wasn't for the finishing, how long have we been lamenting that.  Like it or not project Martin is going nowhere unless he completely bombs in the new year, so there is a lot of responsibility on Jason Coolbox and Air miles Mowbray to come up with the goods without excuse.  We need goals from centre forward, wing and midfield so best of luck buying that in.  However, if by the end of January we are seeing the Leeds Cardiff version of Russball with end product nobody is likely to complain.   

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verlaine1979

verlaine1979

Posted
Posted

The way you can tell that our possession football is mostly tedious propaganda is that it doesn't often result in a similar imbalance in chances. We had 72% of the ball, but Coventry had 11 shots to our 12, and 4 on target to our 3. Occasionally we do convert dominance of possession into dominance of chances, but most of the time we have double the amount of the ball but only a handful more chances if we're lucky.

All the movement has been coached out of the side in favor of ensuring that there are always open players to pass to (not that we had a lot of movement to begin with - watched Bournemouth's game against United last weekend, and it's years since I've seen a Saints side play with that kind of pace, fluidity and confidence even in a one off).

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Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I think people need a bit of perspective. If everyone was told our points tally at this point of the season when we started the season then almost everyone would be biting your hand off. Yes the style could be better and we could be winning games more convincingly, but the vast majority would have been predicting playoffs after our summer of upheaval. We're probably performing slightly above where I expected us to be given we are now very comfortably in the playoffs. Lets bring some goals in in January and some creativity and hopefully we will find that some of our lack of domination is down to personnel rather than just the system.

I think most of us realise we are extremely lucky to get on this run and get as many points as we have.

Injury winner v Hull

injury time equaliser v Preston

Injury time winner v Millwall

And that was in just in a  4 game spell.

Sometimes when you talk about possession and dominating the ball you've also got to admit if you are wearing your big boy pants that you should also be scoring a decent amount of goals as the output, we don't get PTS for possession.

I think I'm more frustrated as we have all known our strikers since ings left have not been up to quality and like here we are nearly in 2024 no better off.

Edited by Convict Colony
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Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

The way you can tell that our possession football is mostly tedious propaganda is that it doesn't often result in a similar imbalance in chances. We had 72% of the ball, but Coventry had 11 shots to our 12, and 4 on target to our 3. Occasionally we do convert dominance of possession into dominance of chances, but most of the time we have double the amount of the ball but only a handful more chances if we're lucky.

All the movement has been coached out of the side in favor of ensuring that there are always open players to pass to (not that we had a lot of movement to begin with - watched Bournemouth's game against United last weekend, and it's years since I've seen a Saints side play with that kind of pace, fluidity and confidence even in a one off).

To be fair when you've got a playmaker like Manning setting you up Coventry were always going to get chances.

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Dusic

Dusic

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Morse said:

You can argue this possession based football is a success, after all we're comfortably in the playoffs and on a long unbeaten run.

You can also argue with the players we've got, and resources available we should be in an automatic promotion place,  and that too many of our unbeaten streak have been draws in games we should be winning. 

But what is unarguable is the football is dull as dishwater to watch. A turgid yawn fest capable of trying the patience of any Saint.

What you can't argue is that the club wanted a transition to a possession style which has undoubtedly taken place, and in any normal season we would have delivered that shift whilst also showing a pts total which is good enough to be 2nd with first in our sights.

Whilst there can of course be frustation that this season isnt currently followimg the ssme fashion, its hard to find realistic fault: Leicester's squad is clearly superior and Ipswich's squad is currently providing unwordly results - fair play to them...can they keep that up?

Edited by Dusic
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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

I think most of us realise we are extremely lucky to get on this run and get as many points as we have.

Injury winner v Hull

injury time equaliser v Preston

Injury time winner v Millwall

And that was in just in a  4 game spell.

Sometimes when you talk about possession and dominating the ball you've also got to admit if you are wearing your big boy pants that you should also be scoring a decent amount of goals as the output, we don't get PTS for possession.

I think I'm more frustrated as we have all known our strikers since ings left have not been up to quality and like here we are nearly in 2024 no better off.

I don't disagree with any of that. I said in the summer how annoyed I was that we didn't bring in a striker that was ready to start. Bringing in Stewart was idiotic and has probably cost us the chance of getting closer to the top 2. It's happened now though so no point getting all bent out of shape because we're just managing to match the performance of Burnley from last year despite our deficiencies up top. 

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

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Posted
6 hours ago, Dusic said:

What you can't argue is that the club wanted a transition to a possession style which has undoubtedly taken place, and in any normal season we would have delivered that shift whilst also showing a pts total which is good enough to be 2nd with first in our sights.

Whilst there can of course be frustation that this season isnt currently followimg the ssme fashion, its hard to find realistic fault: Leicester's squad is clearly superior and Ipswich's squad is currently providing unwordly results - fair play to them...can they keep that up?

I can’t argue that the club wanted a possession style but I will argue that it is a crap way to play football.

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Ex Lion Tamer

Ex Lion Tamer

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think the thing that's getting missed a bit is that whatever system we play, a lot of teams are going to sit back against us. We're now a big fish in this league.

It's been a complaint under previous managers that we can't break teams down when they come to defend, hence our poor home form. And I don't think the first half against Coventry would have been much different if we were playing a counter attacking system as you can't counter a team that doesn't come forward.

What would help is a clinical striker who can find space in a crowded area

Edited by Ex Lion Tamer
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david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

We’re ‘brave’ at the back because there’s a lot of space there and we don’t have to work that hard to move the ball.

Up front it’s different.  Our movement is shit and the players ‘recycle’ too much.  

I swear a fucking 45 year old could play in n our midfield and not look out of place just knocking it back all the time.

Last time we were in the Championship under Adkins, we moved forward quickly, loads of quick two touch, and we had a guy up front who could actually finish.

This side are nowhere near that. We won’t be anywhere near top two continuing with the style of football we played last night.  

... does that mean that  the likes of Adam Lallana, and Steven Davis wouldn't be out of place it they came back....or ?

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

... does that mean that  the likes of Adam Lallana, and Steven Davis wouldn't be out of place it they came back....or ?

They would if they just acted like human walls, like our team do most of the time.  I call it 

‘Chuckle Brothers Football’

to me, to you.

Martin is gaslighting the supporters.  I’ve had a fucking gutful of it.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

They would if they just acted like human walls, like our team do most of the time.  I call it 

‘Chuckle Brothers Football’

to me, to you.

Martin is gaslighting the supporters.  I’ve had a fucking gutful of it.

There’s a reason not many sides play like us, and despite what he thinks, it’s not because they haven’t got a tactical genius managing them. It because you need incredibly talented players to stop it turning into slow predictable walking football. Manchester City & Arsenal can do it, as they have the players. What do we have, fucking Smallbone & Manning fucking mincing around. No wonder we’ve got no movement up front, it must be soul destroying making runs and never getting the fucking ball, never hitting the channels and never getting an early cross to get on the end of. There’s zero fucking urgency & this clown is coaching any excitement out of the Charlys & Edozies of the squad. 
 

Our last championship season was great, watching decent exciting front foot football. This one is just a fucking drag, as uninspiring as any in the past 5 years. 

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SotonianWill

SotonianWill

Posted
Posted
Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

There’s a reason not many sides play like us, and despite what he thinks, it’s not because they haven’t got a tactical genius managing them. It because you need incredibly talented players to stop it turning into slow predictable walking football. Manchester City & Arsenal can do it, as they have the players. What do we have, fucking Smallbone & Manning fucking mincing around. No wonder we’ve got no movement up front, it must be soul destroying making runs and never getting the fucking ball, never hitting the channels and never getting an early cross to get on the end of. There’s zero fucking urgency & this clown is coaching any excitement out of the Charlys & Edozies of the squad. 
 

Our last championship season was great, watching decent exciting front foot football. This one is just a fucking drag, as uninspiring as any in the past 5 years. 

But that how you win this league, look at Burnley. In reality, we’re playing catch up playing what worked last year. It made me laugh when this was what we were told “this is how you do it” then Leicester at home play a few passes and smash it forward for Vardy. Beat us 4-1 at our own place. Maybe we should’ve been early movers into a new tactic not using the walking football which has been adopted by a few this season - most of them are mid table doing nothing. 

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