Russell Martin

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

And this season Ipswich have drawn with Rotherham and Huddersfield.  I guess the Ipswich manager is hailed a genius by some on here because they played us when we were having our month long brain fart in September.  I'm confident we'll finish above Ipswich, less confident that we'll be us in a top 2 position but hopeful.

How much did the Ipswich squad cost compared to ours?

Do you honestly think us and them would still be where we are now in the league if our managers were swapped at the beginning of this season?

[Lighthouse]

13 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

How much did the Ipswich squad cost compared to ours?

Do you honestly think us and them would still be where we are now in the league if our managers were swapped at the beginning of this season?

They would be worse because you’re taking away their momentum and the manager who has made that team successful. Saints would probably be no better, it was always going to take something special to turn last season’s shambles into a top two side.

[Dark Munster]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

They would be worse because you’re taking away their momentum and the manager who has made that team successful. Saints would probably be no better, it was always going to take something special to turn last season’s shambles into a top two side.

That's my point though, he's a damned good manager.

There's a huge gulf between the PL and the Championship, so I think you're greatly overestimating the difficulty in improving from last season, and the "scar tissues". We also had mind-numbing bad managers, the squad wasn't as bad as our position. With a decent squad a good manager can make a big difference in a short space of time. Look at Villa. Also Leicester were quite a shambles too, and look at them now. 

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

They would be worse because you’re taking away their momentum and the manager who has made that team successful. Saints would probably be no better, it was always going to take something special to turn last season’s shambles into a top two side.

Exactly.

The counter factual of us poaching the Ipswich manager in the summer does not necessarily put us in Ipswich's position now. It's not that easy.

McKenna would be walking into a brand new club with a level of expectation and pressure he would never have experienced. Absolutely different ballgame to what he has done, with limited pressure at Ipswich this season.

 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

3 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

That's my point though, he's a damned good manager.

There's a huge gulf between the PL and the Championship, so I think you're greatly overestimating the difficulty in improving from last season, and the "scar tissues". We also had mind-numbing bad managers, the squad wasn't as bad as our position. With a decent squad a good manager can make a big difference in a short space of time. Look at Villa. Also Leicester were quite a shambles too, and look at them now. 

We're unbeaten in nine games, we've dropped six points from the last 27, is it really realistic to think we ought to be doing better? If our form drops then sure, we can start aking questions again, but it's a bit premature based on one draw with Huddersfield

[notnowcato]

7 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

How much did the Ipswich squad cost compared to ours?

Do you honestly think us and them would still be where we are now in the league if our managers were swapped at the beginning of this season?

As I said, I’m confident we’ll be above Ipswich at the end of the season, when it really matters. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

9 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

We're unbeaten in nine games, we've dropped six points from the last 27, is it really realistic to think we ought to be doing better? If our form drops then sure, we can start aking questions again, but it's a bit premature based on one draw with Huddersfield

This, seems crazy to see complaints about Martin right now after a long unbeaten  run like this .. and after having to endure the likes of Ralph and selles picking dross like elyounoussi and such for off the ball crap  russ’s Team selections seem flawless .. Happy with him and if we continue like this we can grind down the top two 

[Tommy Mulgrew]

At present, I think that I am the one being ground down.

[West end Saints]

The key this season is who can deal with the pressure and grind out consistency over the season. 

The argument about whether he can manage at this level is clearly over in the short-term. 

This season's table is bizarre with so many teams starting so well. 

Our start, compared with last season's table at the same stage, would have had us clear in 2nd, only a point behind Burnley. 

The positive is over the last 10 games we are in the best form, and hopefully have potentially more squad depth than some of our competitors. 

Edited 29 November, 2023 by West end Saints

[Turkish]

Pretty weird reaction to the Adam Blackmore post match interview. 

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

RM on the Venables tribute before kick-off: "He was a legend of the game and well ahead of his time when you see what everyone has said about him. To go and manage Barcelona back then as an Englishman is amazing. He gave me some of my best memories of watching football with his England team". I guess he was more English than Scottish when we dumped them out of Euro 96, he's just gone up in my estimation.

[Noodles34]

37 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Pretty weird reaction to the Adam Blackmore post match interview. 

Just listened to it. Seemed to be itching for a fight from the very first moments. 

[AlexLaw76]

27 minutes ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

RM on the Venables tribute before kick-off: "He was a legend of the game and well ahead of his time when you see what everyone has said about him. To go and manage Barcelona back then as an Englishman is amazing. He gave me some of my best memories of watching football with his England team". I guess he was more English than Scottish when we dumped them out of Euro 96, he's just gone up in my estimation.

He is English afterall

[beatlesaint]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Pretty weird reaction to the Adam Blackmore post match interview. 

Touchy, touchy. He's living in a fantasy world. I dont know what he was watching but they could have scored 3 times quite easily if it wasnt for Bazunu and to call that second half "great" WTF? It was much better than the first half but thats a low bar !

Edited 30 November, 2023 by beatlesaint

[saintant]

2 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

Touchy, touchy. He's living in a fantasy world. I dont know what he was watching but they could have scored 3 times quite easily if it wasnt for Bazunu and to call that second half "great" WTF? It was much better than the first half but thats a low bar !

Let's not forget the customary free header which went over the bar.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The blokes been smoking his own dope. If genuinely thinks we were great in the second half then he’s entering Jonesy territory. We deserved to win against an average side, we were ok second half & pretty average first. Nothing more, nothing less. He needs to look at himself, because playing Manning over Bree made us weaker, the second half wouldn’t have been so “great” had they capitalised on a couple of Mannings fuck ups. 

Edited 30 November, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[Dusic]

We are unbeaten in 10 games and top of the form table over that stretch (which is over half of the season so far).

Maybe he just wonders why everything is initially viewed in a negative way, considering things are currently going pretty well?

[Lee On Solent Saint]

This bloke is proper marmite! Not even Puel divided the fan base as much as Martin.

[ally_uk]

6 hours ago, Turkish said:

Pretty weird reaction to the Adam Blackmore post match interview. 

Anyone got a link for this what was said ?

[Badger]

13 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

This bloke is proper marmite! Not even Puel divided the fan base as much as Martin.

Not sure on that one. The fan base is perhaps divided 50:50 on RM, but with Puel I felt the majority wanted him out towards the end of the season. ( so perhaps that supports your point). 

The one thing on Puel though I don’t recall the abuse being as ‘personal’ as it has been for RM (or perhaps it’s been lost from the memory after a few years). 

[Lord Duckhunter]

36 minutes ago, Badger said:

 

The one thing on Puel though I don’t recall the abuse being as ‘personal’ as it has been for RM 

Isn’t abuse, by definition, personal? 
 

 

Edited 30 November, 2023 by Lord Duckhunter

[Miltonaggro]

38 minutes ago, Badger said:

Not sure on that one. The fan base is perhaps divided 50:50 on RM, but with Puel I felt the majority wanted him out towards the end of the season. ( so perhaps that supports your point). 

The one thing on Puel though I don’t recall the abuse being as ‘personal’ as it has been for RM (or perhaps it’s been lost from the memory after a few years). 

Most of the Russ 'abuse' has been hair based to be honest, with Nathan Jones it was dental. 

[Chewy]

As well as coming across as prickly and over-sensitive, it was also pretty thick to react to Blackmore of all people - If he wants people to take sides in that one, there’s only going to be one winner, and it’s not the person who’s just turned up 5 minutes ago.

It’s also concerning when you project it forward. Say we do get promoted and go on a bad run against superior teams - how will he react to the pressure that would bring?

Sounds to me like he’s expecting people to be blowing smoke up his and the teams arse. To a small extent he has a point; unbeaten run, another win, lots to be happy with. But, and it’s a big but, we aren’t playing great, are porous at the back and aren’t creating enough good chances from our possession. And 30,000 people can see it. Either he actually believes his own BS or he’s trying to kid 30,000 people. Either way, it’s not a great look

If he doesn’t want criticism, sometimes unfair and sometimes OTT, he needs another job because what he’s reacted to is small-fry for the position he’s in and most definitely the position he wants to be in next season 

Edited 30 November, 2023 by Chewy
Typo

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Miltonaggro said:

Most of the Russ 'abuse' has been hair based to be honest, with Nathan Jones it was dental. 

He’s got great hair I think it comes from jealousy from fat baldies wishing they looked like an Arne model. First rule of greatness. Don’t take criticism from someone who can’t do what you do. 

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, ally_uk said:

Anyone got a link for this what was said ?

Yes I do

[Miltonaggro]

2 hours ago, ally_uk said:

Anyone got a link for this what was said ?

Adam Blackmore 

[Badger]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Isn’t abuse, by definition, personal? 
 

 

I think you can be abusive about a managers tactics and style of play without going to town on appearance ( having a Lego Head springs to mind…)*. 
 

* which I found amusing so not claiming any moral high ground

[CanadaSaint]

Here’s a link to the interview for those requesting it:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0gwrhfs

He’s clearly feeling some pressure – as well he should. He’s talked frequently about the need to be “brave” but the problem is that we’re not. If we were we wouldn’t be prioritizing possession over penetration as much as we do. We’d play more early balls through or over the defence to make them turn – Sulemana, Fraser and Edozie would love that. When we take the lead we try to hold onto it rather than really go for the jugular. Possession after possession we just keep passing our brains out until the defence gets completely set. About 20-30 minutes into every game you can almost see the opposition thinking “Is that all you’ve got?”, and then they start coming at us.

To me it adds up to gutless football, and there doesn’t seem to be any room for “maverick moments” of individual skill that change games – I think that’s why we’re not seeing the best of our wide players, and it’s also why Alcaraz seems lost out there. Ironically, the only real maverick moment won the game for us last night. Either Martin is coaching that out of the players, or he’s trying to coach it into them and they’re not listening to him.

We desperately need to find the “trip switch” that turns excellent build-up into incisiveness. That would change everything. Until it happens the fans are bound to be restless. The first half last night was mind-numbingly frustrating to watch.

Having said all of that, I totally understand why he might be feeling insecure and being defensive. Let’s face it, we’ve been pretty damn quick as a fan base to start pumping bile onto our managers. In the case of the hapless, ill-chosen Jones it happened with a sickening “we don’t want you” survey before he even arrived.

At some point we ALL need to remember that we’re all on the same side and want the same things.
 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Meh.

Blackmore said something along the lines of Saints changing things around to stop City's chances. Martin took "chances" to indicate we were under pressure and had to change to stop them. He was just stating that City had one shot on target, and two chances all game. it's not as though he felt we were under pressure.

Blackmore followed it up by saying that City should have scored with one of them. Martin's tone didn't change, but that won't have helped. Martin could have taken that defensive follow up, and challenged that too.

Blackmore then made statement that after Saturday, how important it was to get back to winning ways. Not a question. Martin reminded him that we got a point on Saturday and we're unbeaten in 10.

Having blundered his question on City having chances, Blackmore praised Baz as having such a good game. Martin reminded him that it was from few City chances, as per the first question, while still praising Baz.

Blackmore then fawned for much of the rest of it.

From his comments, Martin sees the same things we do, and is frustrated that we're not further ahead and had to rely on KWP quality strike.

All the work put into improving it, he felt was being undermined by a couple of clumsy questions that needed a second to come up with, and little knowledge.

Blackmore's lazy approach to it, expecting a clichéd back and forth, and then desperately trying to make his original points more agreeable to his interviewee was annoying. I don't listen to enough press conferences to know if it's common, but I've heard lazy questioners become very brittle when challenged back. Mainly as there's so little thought going into the questions, they have no follow up.

Martin had praise for the team, and the changes they were asked to make. Singled out players for praise too. Frustrated from Saturday, when he felt he couldn't influence things. Frustrated about our final third, and getting out of sight.

I'd be more bothered if he wasn't frustrated.

[CB Fry]

19 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Meh.

Blackmore said something along the lines of Saints changing things around to stop City's chances. Martin took "chances" to indicate we were under pressure and had to change to stop them. He was just stating that City had one shot on target, and two chances all game. it's not as though he felt we were under pressure.

Blackmore followed it up by saying that City should have scored with one of them. Martin's tone didn't change, but that won't have helped. Martin could have taken that defensive follow up, and challenged that too.

Blackmore then made statement that after Saturday, how important it was to get back to winning ways. Not a question. Martin reminded him that we got a point on Saturday and we're unbeaten in 10.

Having blundered his question on City having chances, Blackmore praised Baz as having such a good game. Martin reminded him that it was from few City chances, as per the first question, while still praising Baz.

Blackmore then fawned for much of the rest of it.

From his comments, Martin sees the same things we do, and is frustrated that we're not further ahead and had to rely on KWP quality strike.

All the work put into improving it, he felt was being undermined by a couple of clumsy questions that needed a second to come up with, and little knowledge.

Blackmore's lazy approach to it, expecting a clichéd back and forth, and then desperately trying to make his original points more agreeable to his interviewee was annoying. I don't listen to enough press conferences to know if it's common, but I've heard lazy questioners become very brittle when challenged back. Mainly as there's so little thought going into the questions, they have no follow up.

Martin had praise for the team, and the changes they were asked to make. Singled out players for praise too. Frustrated from Saturday, when he felt he couldn't influence things. Frustrated about our final third, and getting out of sight.

I'd be more bothered if he wasn't frustrated.

What would have been your non-lazy opening gambit?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

What would have been your non-lazy opening gambit?

I'd have gone with the daring option of something that happened in the match, rather than implying something that didn't. 🙂

[Eric The Red]

I think Martin's reaction was more likely related to whatever previous interviews he had given last night. He was very defensive from the start and I can only guess what his body language was like. He, the team and most importantly us fans need a comfortable win or two ASAP

[CB Fry]

8 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

I'd have gone with the daring option of something that happened in the match, rather than implying something that didn't. 🙂

Would you have focused on the abysmal first half or the ponderous second?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Just now, CB Fry said:

Would you have focused on the abysmal first half or the ponderous second?

You're right. It would have to be one or the other, as you only get a couple of minutes. It would be tough to cover all City's goals that made the first half "abysmal" and cover the way we completely failed to get back into it, let alone win, in the "ponderous" second. 🙂

[CB Fry]

24 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

You're right. It would have to be one or the other, as you only get a couple of minutes. It would be tough to cover all City's goals that made the first half "abysmal" and cover the way we completely failed to get back into it, let alone win, in the "ponderous" second. 🙂

So, basically, "you've done it again Martin, tell us how brilliant you are 👏 👏 👏 👏 "

[Convict Colony]

If Russ is offended by the innocuous opening line from Adam then he's in for a shock with premier league press conferences if we or he gets there, no pally pally approach there.

I think it's fair to say his responses are a surprise for all of us given how polished he is.

Think he was pissed off not scoring more after being pissed off not scoring more for the last like 6 games, if he thinks this is the press getting on his back he should have a world with Jones.

Bet he feels a bit of a tit about it today.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

Would you have focused on the abysmal first half or the ponderous second?

Tough choice.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

27 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

So, basically, "you've done it again Martin, tell us how brilliant you are 👏 👏 👏 👏 "

That was what the back end of the interview did descend into. A number of reminders to the manager of how great the interviewer thought he was. I mentioned that sort of thing in my earlier post, and it's also annoying. What's the point if the manager will get a free pass?

An interviewer should be able to ask questions that are a range between open ended to get the manager's thoughts/feelings through to specific points of the game. Nothing wrong with some critical assessment either.

But poorly worded questions that didn't reflect the game or our form are lazy. Martin did manage to get some of his thoughts across. But not helped by Blackmore switching between defensive, fawning and referring Martin to what he, as interviewer really meant, so they finished as pals.

[Convict Colony]

6 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

That was what the back end of the interview did descend into. A number of reminders to the manager of how great the interviewer thought he was. I mentioned that sort of thing in my earlier post, and it's also annoying. What's the point if the manager will get a free pass?

An interviewer should be able to ask questions that are a range between open ended to get the manager's thoughts/feelings through to specific points of the game. Nothing wrong with some critical assessment either.

But poorly worded questions that didn't reflect the game or our form are lazy. Martin did manage to get some of his thoughts across. But not helped by Blackmore switching between defensive, fawning and referring Martin to what he, as interviewer really meant, so they finished as pals.

Next up for review can I request Nathan Jones away at Brentford.

 

 

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Meh.

Blackmore said something along the lines of Saints changing things around to stop City's chances. Martin took "chances" to indicate we were under pressure and had to change to stop them. He was just stating that City had one shot on target, and two chances all game. it's not as though he felt we were under pressure.

Blackmore followed it up by saying that City should have scored with one of them. Martin's tone didn't change, but that won't have helped. Martin could have taken that defensive follow up, and challenged that too.

Blackmore then made statement that after Saturday, how important it was to get back to winning ways. Not a question. Martin reminded him that we got a point on Saturday and we're unbeaten in 10.

Having blundered his question on City having chances, Blackmore praised Baz as having such a good game. Martin reminded him that it was from few City chances, as per the first question, while still praising Baz.

Blackmore then fawned for much of the rest of it.

From his comments, Martin sees the same things we do, and is frustrated that we're not further ahead and had to rely on KWP quality strike.

All the work put into improving it, he felt was being undermined by a couple of clumsy questions that needed a second to come up with, and little knowledge.

Blackmore's lazy approach to it, expecting a clichéd back and forth, and then desperately trying to make his original points more agreeable to his interviewee was annoying. I don't listen to enough press conferences to know if it's common, but I've heard lazy questioners become very brittle when challenged back. Mainly as there's so little thought going into the questions, they have no follow up.

Martin had praise for the team, and the changes they were asked to make. Singled out players for praise too. Frustrated from Saturday, when he felt he couldn't influence things. Frustrated about our final third, and getting out of sight.

I'd be more bothered if he wasn't frustrated.

Completely agree. 
 

There’s not really much to see here. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

4 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Next up for review can I request Nathan Jones away at Brentford.

 

 

Certainly. The interview ran itself. The interviewer gives Jones some room, as it's a tight space to be digging your managerial grave in. But some questions could have been added, like...

"How big a challenge is balancing front footedness with aggression, to get out of relegation places?"

"While playing against 10 is clearly harder, today Brentford's 11 also caused problems. How do you stop complacency being an issue against teams with higher numbers of players?"

"You've said that you don't see your players out there. Do you agree with Le Tissier, that they've been abducted by aliens and replaced by reptilian clones?"

"When you say you've accommodated certain things, do you mean the squad are living in your house? Is that to make them more aggressive, if not front footed?"

[Dusic]

Doing a very good job, surely hard for anyone to argue otherwise now?

Consistent results, has clearly implemented his style and changed the atmosphere at St Mary's.

The next month will be critical for our auto chances but going in a good direction and still a huge amount of points to play for.

Edited 2 December, 2023 by Dusic

[saint francis]

1 minute ago, Dusic said:

Doing a very good job, surely hard for anyone to argue otherwise now?

Consistent results, has clearly implemented his style and changed the atmosphere at St Mary's.

The next month will be critical but going in a good direction.

Yes, today is the first time I've really appreciated the style, or at least seen it play out on the pitch convincingly, despite good results lately.  

Players busting a gut on and off the ball, working for each other.  Maybe we're getting somewhere. 

[trousers]

I could be wrong (hard to believe I know) but IMO there are two distinct versions of 'Russ-ball'...

First there's the more turgid ideological / purist version and then there's the more entertaining pragmatic/ hybrid version. 

Today we saw the latter (as we did versus Leeds, for example) but more often than not we see the former...

More of the latter please Russ me ol' mucker

(As I say, there's every chance I'm talking bollocks here, so take with a pinch of salt, obviously)

Edited 2 December, 2023 by trousers

[Dark Munster]

36 minutes ago, trousers said:

I could be wrong (hard to believe I know) but IMO there are two distinct versions of 'Russ-ball'...
Firsts there's the more turgid ideological / purist version and then there's the more entertaining pragmatic/ hybrid version. 
Today we saw the latter (as we did versus Leeds, for example) but more often than not we see the former...
More of the latter please Russ me ol' mucker
(As I say, there's every chance I'm talking bollocks here, so take with a pinch of salt, obviously)

Not at all Trousers, me ol' mucker. Spot on.

Russell, if you're reading this, I promise I'll write nice things about you if your team plays like they did today and against Leeds. Stick with Jeckll, and no more of the ponderous, pedestrian, plodding, propaganda, passive, predictable crab Hyde please!

Edited 2 December, 2023 by Dark Munster

[Winnersaint]

This made me laugh from CCFC Forum

"Martin is a pain in the arse, jumping up and down, animated and arguing with our players throughput especially when Tanner won a tackle fair and square. Martin was abusive." 

[CB Fry]

Right now I am saying he is a little unlucky to be in the season he is in.

37 from 19 games really is excellent, in the ballpark of 2 points a game.

Worthy, definitely, of better than fourth.

To have two runaway clubs right now is properly harsh on us and Leeds who in another year could be the top two with those points.

I still think we are play off bound (safely, we are top 6 no bother) but I think we will fall short of automatic.

 

 

Edited 2 December, 2023 by CB Fry

[Miltonaggro]

2 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Right now I am saying he is a little unlucky to be in the season he is in.

37 from 19 games really is excellent, in the ballpark of 2 points a game.

Worthy, definitely, of better than fourth.

To have two runaway clubs right now is properly harsh on us and Leeds who in another year could be the top two with those points.

I still think we are play off bound (safely, we are top 6 no bother) but I think we will fall short of automatic.

 

 

I have a gut feeling it’s going to be us and Leeds vying for second at the business end of the season. Hope so as I don’t think a playoff tussle will do my blood pressure much good. It would be lovely to see Leicester and Ipswich dropping some points over Christmas. 

[Miltonaggro]

1 hour ago, Winnersaint said:

This made me laugh from CCFC Forum

"Martin is a pain in the arse, jumping up and down, animated and arguing with our players throughput especially when Tanner won a tackle fair and square. Martin was abusive." 

Great stuff, would only be improved if Natty J was their manager! 

[Dark Munster]

Yes, us not finishing in the playoff spots is about as likely as Leicester not finishing in the top 2. Us, them, Ipswich, Leeds and WBA look very likely to take the top 5 spots, with about 7 other teams fighting for the last spot.

If we can play like we did today regularly I'm not giving up on catching Ipswich.