Russell Martin

[Saint_clark]

2 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

Good job we're not in the prem then.

No, but we're aiming to be and claiming to be building a long term vision, so clearly our management see ourselves in the Prem with Russell in charge.

[The Cat]

23 minutes ago, trousers said:

I don't think you need to apologise for doubting him. There was every reason for doubt during that dire run in September. A combination of Martin learning lessons, leading to some tactical adjustments / fine-tuning, and the players starting to "get it" has stabilised the ship. Long may it continue.

I understand there was reason for doubt and that's fine but the way some people expressed it was completely over the top.

Some managers come in and have an immediate effect while others take a while to embed a different strategy and turn results around.

Likewise we are on a great run now but there will be a time where we have a dip in form. That's natural over a season, we just need to remember to step back sometimes and look at the bigger picture.

[S-Clarke]

39 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

No, but we're aiming to be and claiming to be building a long term vision, so clearly our management see ourselves in the Prem with Russell in charge.

I remember clamour when we were winning promotion last time in this league ''we need to replace Fonte, he will get caught out in the Prem''.

You can't predict how this team would perform in the Prem when it's not even there yet.

[Sheaf Saint]

19 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I remember clamour when we were winning promotion last time in this league ''we need to replace Fonte, he will get caught out in the Prem''.

You can't predict how this team would perform in the Prem when it's not even there yet.

True, but then last time in 2011/12 we didn't have a handful of players who had already demonstrated (with us) that the PL is a step too far for them. 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

No, but we're aiming to be and claiming to be building a long term vision, so clearly our management see ourselves in the Prem with Russell in charge.

I find it weird that people don't want to talk about it. Clearly that's the aim so it's probably worth discussing the possibility. 

[woodsaint1]

About 40 pages of this thread would make for tragic reading. A bit of patience was always needed

[CB Fry]

It's all good at the moment but let's remember he's got us to fourth place after about a third of the season.

We are below both of the other two relegated clubs, with all three managers being in their jobs for around the same amount of time.

So his performance is, at best, on par for the resources and reasonable expectation. 

We should have never lost four in a row and our goals against is still appalling.

Looking forward to even more improvement in the remaining two thirds 👍👍

Edited 11 November, 2023 by CB Fry

[Harry_SFC]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

I find it weird that people don't want to talk about it. Clearly that's the aim so it's probably worth discussing the possibility. 

I get that but let's not judge him on how he "might do" in the premier league when it may not even happen. 

Edited 11 November, 2023 by Harry_SFC

[Dusic]

18 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

It's all good at the moment but let's remember he's got us to fourth place after about a third of the season.

We are below both of the other two relegated clubs, with all three managers being in their jobs for around the same amount of time.

So his performance is, at best, on par for the resources and reasonable expectation. 

We should have never lost four in a row and our goals against is still appalling.

Looking forward to even more improvement in the remaining two thirds 👍👍

Makes complete sense but also worth stating that whilst getting us into 4th with usual auto promotion PPG he has also totally overhauled the style of play - which was clearly a massive part of why he was brought in.

Always a sign of a good manager when they can quickly get a team playing the style they want and RM has undoubtedly done that, even if its jot everyone's cup of tea.

As was obvious at the time we recruited him for the reason above, with the hope/expectstion that with better players he would get better results than he has at previous clubs where he also successfully instilled his style.

So far it appears that its going the way that the club wants - hopefully that continues.

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

I get that but let's not judge him on how he "might do" in the premier league when it may not even happen. 

Surely we can speculate about how the team may perform in a hypothetical future where we win promotion? If not then what's a forum for? We talk about players we may sign in January before January for example. 

[Dr Who?]

24 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

It's all good at the moment but let's remember he's got us to fourth place after about a third of the season.

We are below both of the other two relegated clubs, with all three managers being in their jobs for around the same amount of time.

So his performance is, at best, on par for the resources and reasonable expectation. 

We should have never lost four in a row and our goals against is still appalling.

Looking forward to even more improvement in the remaining two thirds 👍👍

Yes but Leicester did their business and sorting out transfers very early on. We held on to players into the season and held out for the best deals, which of course is great for the money situation, but not for getting a settled team playing to the system the manager wants them to. I still think we play a little too laboured in possession and need to add a bit of zip and directness to our game. I think we are moving in the right direction for sure, but apart from Leeds at home all our wins have been by 1 goal (which does the job) but we should be taking teams apart with our team. 

[CB Fry]

10 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

Yes but Leicester did their business and sorting out transfers very early on.

Yes, and Leeds had chaos and crisis and players on strike and Ipswich were League One last year.

[Dark Munster]

13 minutes ago, Dusic said:

As was obvious at the time we recruited him for the reason above, with the hope/expectstion that with better players he would get better results than he has at previous clubs where he also successfully instilled his style.

I think there are plenty of Swansea fans who would disagree with that.

After the diabolical 4 match losing run we have indeed improved (it couldn't be any worse), but as others have said most of the wins have been by the odd goal (some almost the last kick). It's been a fine line between success and failure since Leeds, and fortunately we've been on the right side of that line so far. Hopefully he can get the full potential from the strong squad he has at his disposal, and we can catch Ipswich (who have far less resources).

[Dr Who?]

3 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Yes, and Leeds had chaos and crisis and players on strike and Ipswich were League One last year.

Leeds have only just started to put a good run together and look good. Only a point ahead of us. I would say they were more settled. We lost 2 very key players during the first few games of the season. 

Ipswich remind me of us when we came up from league 1. They are very together and have a ‘team’ mentality that are settled and playing for each other. I do keep saying it will never last, but they score plenty, but also ship goals. Very entertaining to watch. 

[Dusic]

14 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

I think there are plenty of Swansea fans who would disagree with that.

After the diabolical 4 match losing run we have indeed improved (it couldn't be any worse), but as others have said most of the wins have been by the odd goal (some almost the last kick). It's been a fine line between success and failure since Leeds, and fortunately we've been on the right side of that line so far. Hopefully he can get the full potential from the strong squad he has at his disposal, and we can catch Ipswich (who have far less resources).

Swansea fans wouldn't disagree that he successfully instilled a possession based style. Neither would MK Dons. In both cases the stats clearly show this.

I know you aren't a big fan but pretty hard to argue the fact that RM can get his teams playing heavy possession football - he has done it at all three clubs!!

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

I'll be more convinced if he addresses our inability to keep a clean sheet. Is it one this season so far?

Clean sheets / conceding a lot fewer goals will be the key to this season and is clearly the area that needs improvement

[Whitey Grandad]

26 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

I'll be more convinced if he addresses our inability to keep a clean sheet. Is it one this season so far?

Clean sheets / conceding a lot fewer goals will be the key to this season and is clearly the area that needs improvement

Two matches. Stoke and Millwall, both were away games.

I agree with you.

[ant]

4 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

We need to start annihilating teams a bit.

Seems more desire-driven than pragmatic, to me.

If we can continue winning games by the odd goal then I don't care how the points keep rolling in.

Not to suggest we're on anything like the same level, but the lazy argument on United under Fergie was that they were 'lucky' to score goals late or last-minute.

Decent teams find a way.

Our persistence and ability to grind out results is a feature of the way we're playing, not a bug.

[Maggie May]

1 hour ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

I'll be more convinced if he addresses our inability to keep a clean sheet. Is it one this season so far?

Clean sheets / conceding a lot fewer goals will be the key to this season and is clearly the area that needs improvement

I thought the general consensus in here is that this all Bazunu’s fault?

[Pilchards]

Address the goals against?

We brought in a good defensive coach and so far in his 2 games we’ve conceded 1 which was today.

Thats way above our average to date so the plan is certainly there!

 

[Dark Munster]

7 hours ago, ant said:

Seems more desire-driven than pragmatic, to me.

If we can continue winning games by the odd goal then I don't care how the points keep rolling in.

Not to suggest we're on anything like the same level, but the lazy argument on United under Fergie was that they were 'lucky' to score goals late or last-minute.

Decent teams find a way.

Our persistence and ability to grind out results is a feature of the way we're playing, not a bug.

The concern is that we can't expect to keep winning by the skin of our teeth. Today was an example where we won but could've easily drawn or lost. Ditto many of our other wins and draws. Yes it's admirable that we keep going until the end, and I'm delighted with those wins, but if we're serious about challenging for the top two we need to start winning most matches more comfortably (annihilations not required!) We've got the squad that should be able to do this against most of the dross in this division.

1-0 wins are fine if we create lots of chances and the other team doesn't look like they'd score in a month of Sundays. Basically like what Ipswich did to us earlier.

Edited 12 November, 2023 by Dark Munster

[Sheaf Saint]

9 hours ago, CB Fry said:

We should have never lost four in a row and our goals against is still appalling.

Our GA still looks very poor, it's true. But it's badly skewed because of the stupid amount we shipped in those first 8 games (19).

If you look at our record since we lost to Boro at the end of September, we've only conceded 7 in total, managed 2 clean sheets, and the only team to score more than one against us was Preston.

Of the teams above us, only Leicester have conceded less over the same period with 5, with Leeds shipping 9 and Ipswich 14 (albeit having played 1 more game).

[Paulwantsapint81]

RM will get to watch the next game from the stands thanks to his 3rd yellow card of the season

Wonder if he fancies sitting with the away fans at Huddersfield?

[AlexLaw76]

9 hours ago, Dr Who? said:

Leeds have only just started to put a good run together and look good. Only a point ahead of us. I would say they were more settled. We lost 2 very key players during the first few games of the season. 

Ipswich remind me of us when we came up from league 1. They are very together and have a ‘team’ mentality that are settled and playing for each other. I do keep saying it will never last, but they score plenty, but also ship goals. Very entertaining to watch. 

Really...? Players on striker, loads out of the door, new manager....

[Sheaf Saint]

21 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Really...? Players on striker, loads out of the door, new manager....

Yeah they have had plenty of upheaval since the summer, but they weren't as shit as us to begin with though. 

[Saint Billy]

Obviously there is an improvement since that god awful bad run, but we still look vulnerable especially after scoring. 

I still have this uneasiness when watching us that we are only one stray pass away from conceding and capitulating.

[VectisSaint]

11 hours ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

I'll be more convinced if he addresses our inability to keep a clean sheet. Is it one this season so far?

Clean sheets / conceding a lot fewer goals will be the key to this season and is clearly the area that needs improvement

No its 2 (Stoke and Millwall). We've conceded 7 in the last 8, not sure how much improvement you expect on that. We've actually only had 3 league games where we have conceded a quantity of goals, yes they were bad (though even one of them we at least got a point). People are hung up on those 2 heavy defeats, yes they were diabolical, but they were clearly a blip. When we have a proper defence in place and our midfield is performing we now look quite solid, KWP, Bednarek, THB and Bree are looking good and Holgate has now shown he can perform as well, and we still have Stephens to come back.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

55 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

Obviously there is an improvement since that god awful bad run, but we still look vulnerable especially after scoring. 

I still have this uneasiness when watching us that we are only one stray pass away from conceding and capitulating.

Plenty of times yesterday that whilst playing out from the back West Brom nearly caught us. They pressed really well so it was surprising we got away with it.

[Tom & Gerry]

It is quite normal for a team to have a bad spell during the season. We've had ours, Leicester might be at the beginning of one and have now lost 3. Do Ipswich have the squad  to continue like they have all season?

I also think there are a lot of tough ,hard to beat teams in this league and all the top teams will find it hard to maintain the current pace.

There is a long way to go

[Wurzel]

37 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Plenty of times yesterday that whilst playing out from the back West Brom nearly caught us. They pressed really well so it was surprising we got away with it.

Is this fear of good results still not being good enough common amongst all fans or is it unique to Saints after several years of disappointment and a downward spiral.

They nearly caught us out. So what, they didn't.  On just ss many occasions we nearly  caught them out but didn't. Yet so many only see the we could have let more in part and never balance it with we could have scored more.

We won. We're top of the form guide over 8 games ( long enough not to be a fluke). Drop the negativity and the fear and enjoy it. 😀

 

Edited 12 November, 2023 by Wurzel

[Fabrice29]

45 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Plenty of times yesterday that whilst playing out from the back West Brom nearly caught us. They pressed really well so it was surprising we got away with it.

Got away with it is such a naff and defeatist way of looking at it. The amount of times we did it and it was successful far outweighs the times we misplaced a pass and when it worked it worked well. Embrace those moments and enjoy them, the times it goes wrong take on the chin and encourage them to get the next attempt right. "Got away with it" just smacks of someone waiting in the crowd for it to go wrong so you can say "I told you". 

[Saint Billy]

27 minutes ago, Wurzel said:

Is this fear of good results still not being good enough common amongst all fans or is it unique to Saints after several years of disappointment and a downward spiral.

They nearly caught us out. So what, they didn't.  On just ss many occasions we nearly  caught them out but didn't. Yet so many only see the we could have let more in part and never balance it with we could have scored more.

We won. We're top of the form guide over 8 games ( long enough not to be a fluke). Drop the negativity and the fear and enjoy it. 😀

 

Is RM being negative when he states “In the second half, the momentum swung and we were too untidy on the ball. Their goal was coming, but we weren’t good enough in that period.".

It's not being negative it's being realistic. Yes we could all get carried away on a tidal wave of optimism that we've turned the corner and the league is won but on the other hand some of us choose to enjoy the wins but with caution.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

21 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Got away with it is such a naff and defeatist way of looking at it. The amount of times we did it and it was successful far outweighs the times we misplaced a pass and when it worked it worked well. Embrace those moments and enjoy them, the times it goes wrong take on the chin and encourage them to get the next attempt right. "Got away with it" just smacks of someone waiting in the crowd for it to go wrong so you can say "I told you". 

Was just an observation on the game and the way we playing. I think its great when it comes off, and as you say more often than not it does. I guess having not seen many home victories over the past 18 months the jitters set in. 

[Gloucester Saint]

14 hours ago, CB Fry said:

It's all good at the moment but let's remember he's got us to fourth place after about a third of the season.

We are below both of the other two relegated clubs, with all three managers being in their jobs for around the same amount of time.

So his performance is, at best, on par for the resources and reasonable expectation. 

We should have never lost four in a row and our goals against is still appalling.

Looking forward to even more improvement in the remaining two thirds 👍👍

Yep, delighted with the last 8 games but we need to carry it on to Christmas to put pressure on Leicester and Ipswich, entirely possible as well. Biggest change is the increased solidity, whether that’s new players settling in, Calderwood arriving or a bit of both. Means Gavin looking more comfortable and getting more of the protection that he should be. Now we need to boost the GD by taking more of our chances when we hit the front.

It’s a lot to ask Stewart to be our Lambert of 11/12 to lead the line but it’s the difference between top 2 and play-offs. AA is having a good season but we need that focal point to hold it up when teams have a go from being behind in second halves and then get those late winners as it’s a bit reliant on Fraser at the moment.

The club probably thought Che would carry on with that after a move didn’t materialise but he really has lost his mojo and needs a fresh start elsewhere. Mara has had the odd cameo but hasn’t looked any more capable at this level which is very disappointing with what he cost. I’d imagine he’ll go out on loan in January, Che out for a modest fee and another forward to compete off the bench.

[Bad Wolf]

32 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Got away with it is such a naff and defeatist way of looking at it. The amount of times we did it and it was successful far outweighs the times we misplaced a pass and when it worked it worked well. Embrace those moments and enjoy them, the times it goes wrong take on the chin and encourage them to get the next attempt right. "Got away with it" just smacks of someone waiting in the crowd for it to go wrong so you can say "I told you". 

Agreed. If we're going to use this logic, can we not use all the times we "nearly" scored to our advantage? Remember in 2003 when we nearly won the FA Cup? Or 2017 when we nearly won the League Cup? Good times. Shame about 1976 though where we got away with it.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

We are winning by narrow margins. Narrower than anyone would like. Some games a narrow win is fine. Others, there's the feeling we made it narrow by our tempo, style of play.

Our opponents do get the odd chance to punish us, such as WBA effort off the bar, that can change results.

However, we're clearly developing. We'll be looking at the chances we had that were offside after our first. Lots of little moments where better anticipation would have set a player free etc.

We had a good mix of play in the first half, against that opponent. It went some way to showing we can still create chances, and not sit on a 1-0 lead. RM's pointed out that we weren't anywhere near as good second half . We seem to have similar spells in games, and that's something to work on.

We're clearly better defensively. We cover far better when we've lost the ball and for KWP being forward. Smallbone and AA really help there too.

I doubt we're going to go on all out attacks. Our squad isn't built to outmuscle opponents. We do have some pace, but we're not fully counterattacking. So, we're only going to get bigger wins through improving the things we're already seeing. We earn these wins, working hard to the end. Hopefully improvements will happen to give us some breathing space, for those games where our opponents do take their chances.

[S-Clarke]

 .

Edited 12 November, 2023 by S-Clarke

[notnowcato]

I feel there’s so much improvement still to come with this team, excited as to where we could get to. Players like Alcarez, THB, Bazunu, Edozie, Charles all have bags of room to become better players. 
 

Best of all Russell is proving those that labelled him as (paraphrasing) “mid table mediocre manager” or “lucky to be managing us” that they should probably have a rethink. 

[ally_uk]

I'm optimistic and happy with the team and manager currently. 

Hopefully international break we bed in new striker 👍 

And resume march towards top of table. 

[trousers]

12 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Best of all Russell is proving those that labelled him as (paraphrasing) “mid table mediocre manager” or “lucky to be managing us” that they should probably have a rethink.

It wasn't so much people giving him that label, rather just an observation on his managerial career to-date, I would venture. Here's hoping this is the season that he finishes much higher than his first 3 seasons 👍🙂

Edited 12 November, 2023 by trousers

[AlexLaw76]

8 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

I feel there’s so much improvement still to come with this team, excited as to where we could get to. Players like Alcarez, THB, Bazunu, Edozie, Charles all have bags of room to become better players. 
 

Best of all Russell is proving those that labelled him as (paraphrasing) “mid table mediocre manager” or “lucky to be managing us” that they should probably have a rethink. 

We are about par for where we should be. Given the squad and resources. 

[notnowcato]

7 minutes ago, trousers said:

It wasn't so much people giving him that label, rather just an observation on his managerial career to-date, I would venture.

The observation was used in a negative way towards RM, maybe not by all. 
 

[notnowcato]

29 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

We are about par for where we should be. Given the squad and resources. 

I disagree. I think we’re a top 2 team and I think we will be when it really matters in April. 

[Tom & Gerry]

With regard to the narrow wins. I can remember plenty of times in the past when we've had a big win , optimism has risen and then we've lost the next game. Don't get me wrong I like a big win but I prefer a consistent winning team.

[Dark Munster]

57 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

We are about par for where we should be. Given the squad and resources. 

Not really. We shouldn’t be 9 points behind Ipswich given the disparity in resources. 

[BERMUDASAINT]

RM possesion stye has started to take shape and players are improving and proving it can be a successful way to play.

From the fist game of a thousand passes ( passing for passing sake?), and defensive fragility when passing out from the back seemed like a recipie for a boring, disaster football.

But now our players understand his stlye and as a team and individually are improving rapidly. We are moving the ball outta defence much better with better movement and option to pass to.

I see the manager and team evolving into this possesion based system, it is such a diff from RH ball that we really needed time to change the whole phlisophy. Even the possesion ball is starting to evolve from mindless easy safe passing among the defence, into moving the ball to open up or expose a weakness in the oppo.

I am just getting to see what RM ball is and it ain't bad. He has stuck to his principal ideas and the team and points have improved. It not as slow and boring as i first feared and he has shown he can get the team moving forward with good passing and movement.

[Bad Wolf]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

It wasn't so much people giving him that label, rather just an observation on his managerial career to-date, I would venture. Here's hoping this is the season that he finishes much higher than his first 3 seasons 👍🙂

Thing is, he got to midtable with a Swansea squad that should have been bottom 3. They spend barely any money and they were one last day win away from the playoffs.

Remember, he only had one year left on his contract and when we came in for him, they were in talks to extend it. It's all very well saying that he's had midtable finishes but it has to have a context.

Thomas Frank has only had midtable finishes (PL wise) with Brentford but I doubt anyone would deny he's done an incredible job.

[Harry_SFC]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

Not really. We shouldn’t be 9 points behind Ipswich given the disparity in resources. 

Tbf if you're going by resources, you could say that 3/4's of the league shouldn't be so far behind Ipswich, not just us. They are having an incredible season so far. It can happen. 

Edited 12 November, 2023 by Harry_SFC

[The Kraken]

15 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Thing is, he got to midtable with a Swansea squad that should have been bottom 3. They spend barely any money and they were one last day win away from the playoffs.

A Swansea squad that should have been bottom three but finished 6th and 4th in the two seasons before Martin took over. 

Rightyho.

[trousers]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

The observation was used in a negative way towards RM, maybe not by all. 
 

Isn't that how different opinions work? Some will put a negative spin on an observation and some will put a positive spin on it. Embrace different ways of looking at things I say, rather than criticise those who see things differently to oneself... 

IMHO of course...

Edited 12 November, 2023 by trousers