Russell Martin

[Weston Super Saint]

6 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Think some of this is aimed at me because I suggested he'll manage in European football one day. Nobody was suggesting he'd be at a club like Bayern or was on the same trajectory as Kompany though, I think that was widely mocked by most including Martin himself from memory.

 

You should revisit some of Gio's posts about good old Rus.

Something about us reinventing football and destined to reach the highest heights?

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Think some of this is aimed at me because I suggested he'll manage in European football one day. Nobody was suggesting he'd be at a club like Bayern or was on the same trajectory as Kompany though, I think that was widely mocked by most including Martin himself from memory.

We've got worse by almost every metric btw.

This is getting really boring though, I think everyone agrees the clubs a mess. Some think the manager who got us back here did a good job and maybe completely throwing him or at least some of the principles he installed and recruited for completely away after a bad few months was a bit silly especially as it's been replaced by a whole lot of nothingness. Some think we're miles better off because of it. They'll never agree. Hopefully we can get back to some joined up thinking again in the summer, get promoted and be better next time. Not sure anyone is going to come out of this particular arguement with any grace until then at least.

Anyway as we're being hot on what people were saying..this is getting a lot closer than you imagined isn't it? 

  

 

You've gotcha'd me there and no mistake. Turns out Russell Martin really was the very best available manager on the planet.

Sincere apologies.

[The Kraken]

Fabrice saying “they’ll” never agree 🤣

A man so entrenched in his own opinion he can’t even see where it began. And making up lines such as “Some think we're miles better off because of it [getting rid of hero Russell]”. 

Such a disingenuous little weasel. 

[gio1saints]

13 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

You should revisit some of Gio's posts about good old Rus.

Something about us reinventing football and destined to reach the highest heights?

No, your memory is incomplete. Rewriting  history is common practice but just to refresh your mind : Rus did not reinvent anything - he just took some commonly approved ( not so much as of this season) and successful football principles - see Barca, Man City, Spain, - and applied them to there extreme with Saints - with sufficient success in the Championship level - but abject failure in the EPL.

Aspiring to reach the highest standard of football possible and destined to do so are not the same. Nobody has said it was destiny. But not daring to dream is not worthy of a Saints Manager, imo. Being pragmatic is not cowardly either I hasten to add - but few have the willpower to know what you can do unless you try and persist until you get the chop like he did? Russ was victory or die trying. He and team - and support let’s not forget - died trying. Should not be a matter of scorn but of pride. 
 

Aspiration is a dirty word for some if you lose matches whilst on the journey. For others it is a reason why we support the team. There has to be some hope some thought some reason for the team and why/how it plays. With Russ in the championship he achieved that. Did not work in the EPL. Currently with Ivan I’m struggling to determine anything- good or bad. Also struggling to find positives despite my instinct to be optimistic unless there is a big reset. 

I think it was obvious now that the Board should have made better decisions in close season - especially with regard to replacing Wilcox. Hopefully lessons  learned ahead of our Championship season next time out. 🙏

Edited March 22 by gio1saints

[CB Fry]

14 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

No, your memory is incomplete. Rewriting  history is common practice but just to refresh your mind : Rus did not reinvent anything - he just took some commonly approved ( not so much as of this season) and successful football principles - see Barca, Man City, Spain, - and applied them to there extreme with Saints - with sufficient success in the Championship level - but abject failure in the EPL.

Aspiring to reach the highest standard of football possible and destined to do so are not the same. Nobody has said it was destiny. But not daring to dream is not worthy of a Saints Manager, imo. Being pragmatic is not cowardly either I hasten to add - but few have the willpower to know what you can do unless you try and persist until you get the chop like he did? Russ was victory or die trying. He and team - and support let’s not forget - died trying. Should not be a matter of scorn but of pride. 
 

Aspiration is a dirty word for some if you lose matches whilst on the journey. For others it is a reason why we support the team. There has to be some hope some thought some reason for the team and why/how it plays With Rus in the championship he achieved that. Did not work in the EPL. Currently with Ivan I’m struggling to determine anything- good or bad. Also struggling to find positives despite my instinct to be optimistic unless there is a big reset. 

What a load of bollocks.

I'll let you into a tiny secret. Every professional football manager on earth, and forever is going for victory. 

As usual on all your posts on this topic you are piling on grandeur, nobility and higher meaning on nothing more than a football manager who got a team promoted through the play offs. Like countless bang average managers before.

Saints fans I know had "aspiration" not to be on 9 points in April. But there you go.

Keep spouting fucking garbage.

Edited March 22 by CB Fry

[Dark Munster]

20 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

Think some of this is aimed at me because I suggested he'll manage in European football one day.

  

 

That’s definitely a possibility. He could get an offer some day from an Andorran second division club. 

[suewhistle]

Do they have a third division?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

16 hours ago, suewhistle said:

Do they have a third division?

His second division Andorran team will find out at the end of his first season. 🙂

[Osvaldorama]

23 hours ago, gio1saints said:

No, your memory is incomplete. Rewriting  history is common practice but just to refresh your mind : Rus did not reinvent anything - he just took some commonly approved ( not so much as of this season) and successful football principles - see Barca, Man City, Spain, - and applied them to there extreme with Saints - with sufficient success in the Championship level - but abject failure in the EPL.

Aspiring to reach the highest standard of football possible and destined to do so are not the same. Nobody has said it was destiny. But not daring to dream is not worthy of a Saints Manager, imo. Being pragmatic is not cowardly either I hasten to add - but few have the willpower to know what you can do unless you try and persist until you get the chop like he did? Russ was victory or die trying. He and team - and support let’s not forget - died trying. Should not be a matter of scorn but of pride. 
 

Aspiration is a dirty word for some if you lose matches whilst on the journey. For others it is a reason why we support the team. There has to be some hope some thought some reason for the team and why/how it plays. With Russ in the championship he achieved that. Did not work in the EPL. Currently with Ivan I’m struggling to determine anything- good or bad. Also struggling to find positives despite my instinct to be optimistic unless there is a big reset. 

I think it was obvious now that the Board should have made better decisions in close season - especially with regard to replacing Wilcox. Hopefully lessons  learned ahead of our Championship season next time out. 🙏

LOL

 

They should have been ruthless and sacked Martin the second we won promotion. 
 

He was obviously not good enough for the PL. Writing a load of nonsense doesn’t change such an obvious fact 

[gio1saints]

On 22/03/2025 at 08:38, CB Fry said:

What a load of bollocks.

I'll let you into a tiny secret. Every professional football manager on earth, and forever is going for victory. 

As usual on all your posts on this topic you are piling on grandeur, nobility and higher meaning on nothing more than a football manager who got a team promoted through the play offs. Like countless bang average managers before.

Saints fans I know had "aspiration" not to be on 9 points in April. But there you go.

Keep spouting fucking garbage.

You’ve missed the point. Arguably because your aggressive impulse to hit out at me got the better of you. 

What you call grandeur nobility and higher meaning I call what every Saints supporter actually really wants. IF they had the honesty to admit it. We all want Saints to win more than lose, of course but, and this is my point, ideally, to win playing the game beautifully. 
 

I get one man’s meat is another man’s poison and for many his style of play was poison not even close to beauty but that’s not the issue. 

We had a Manager who tried to win and win well - and it was successful enough in the Championship but a failure in the Premiership.  Russ carried on playing the same way with pretty much the same players hoping to replicate it in the EPL. He made some minor adjustments but went down with his ship rather than abandon them. Scorn him as a loser scorn his as obstinate but you cannot scorn his idealistic beliefs. THAT was/is admiral imo. 

Edited March 23 by gio1saints

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

20 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Scorn him as a loser scorn his as obstinate but you cannot scorn his idealistic beliefs. THAT was/is admiral imo. 

You can scorn him for his idealistic beliefs though if he was unable to accept they were hopelessly failing and then couldn’t/wouldn’t change it.

[CB Fry]

52 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

You’ve missed the point. Arguably because your aggressive impulse to hit out at me got the better of you. 

What you call grandeur nobility and higher meaning I call what every Saints supporter actually really wants. IF they had the honesty to admit it. We all want Saints to win more than lose, of course but, and this is my point, ideally, to win playing the game beautifully. 
 

I get one man’s meat is another man’s poison and for many his style of play was poison not even close to beauty but that’s not the issue. 

We had a Manager who tried to win and win well - and it was successful enough in the Championship but a failure in the Premiership.  Russ carried on playing the same way with pretty much the same players hoping to replicate it in the EPL. He made some minor adjustments but went down with his ship rather than abandon them. Scorn him as a loser scorn his as obstinate but you cannot scorn his idealistic beliefs. THAT was/is admiral imo. 

What a load of bollocks.

Russell Martin does not have a monopoly on winning beautifully, it's not some magical thing that only he thought of. There are countless managers in my life time at Saints who have delivered winning and winning well, from Chris Nicholl to Alan Ball to Nigel Adkins to Ronald Koeman.

You don't get to claim that for your man and your "beautiful" people. Fuck off with that.

All I will remember is a manager woefully out of his depth who ill equipped his team for the challenge we faced - which he has later admitted when he confessed he did not realise how physical the Premier League is. The Premier League that is the biggest, most high profile and visible football competition in the world. Pathetic from the manager.

Russell Martin is a bog standard manager who promoted a team from the Championship. A dime a dozen. He did a fine job for that level, and fucked up at the higher level. Not because he was some wonderful principled man making a noble principled stand for beautiful football that he couldn't possibly betray. It was because he wasn't up to it. 

Edited March 23 by CB Fry

[StrangelyBrown]

2 hours ago, gio1saints said:

You’ve missed the point. Arguably because your aggressive impulse to hit out at me got the better of you. 

What you call grandeur nobility and higher meaning I call what every Saints supporter actually really wants. IF they had the honesty to admit it. We all want Saints to win more than lose, of course but, and this is my point, ideally, to win playing the game beautifully. 
 

I get one man’s meat is another man’s poison and for many his style of play was poison not even close to beauty but that’s not the issue. 

We had a Manager who tried to win and win well - and it was successful enough in the Championship but a failure in the Premiership.  Russ carried on playing the same way with pretty much the same players hoping to replicate it in the EPL. He made some minor adjustments but went down with his ship rather than abandon them. Scorn him as a loser scorn his as obstinate but you cannot scorn his idealistic beliefs. THAT was/is admiral imo. 

I think you've missed the point....

Half the time Russ' football was anything but beautiful - it was often incredibly tedious. We so often lacked the courage in the final third. So often played the ball backwards in good positions. So often gave the ball away in the same old positions in the same old way.

Give me Koeman, Poch, Ball or Nichol over Martin any day - those guys knew what good looked like and knew how to entertain.

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

I think you've missed the point....

Half the time Russ' football was anything but beautiful - it was often incredibly tedious. We so often lacked the courage in the final third. So often played the ball backwards in good positions. So often gave the ball away in the same old positions in the same old way.

Give me Koeman, Poch, Ball or Nichol over Martin any day - those guys knew what good looked like and knew how to entertain.

Only half the time?

[StrangelyBrown]

4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Only half the time?

To be fair I the championship we sometimes swept teams away brilliantly, but we were inconsistent at best often riding our luck rather than putting inferior teams to bed.

[Wade Garrett]

3 hours ago, gio1saints said:

You’ve missed the point. Arguably because your aggressive impulse to hit out at me got the better of you. 

What you call grandeur nobility and higher meaning I call what every Saints supporter actually really wants. IF they had the honesty to admit it. We all want Saints to win more than lose, of course but, and this is my point, ideally, to win playing the game beautifully. 
 

I get one man’s meat is another man’s poison and for many his style of play was poison not even close to beauty but that’s not the issue. 

We had a Manager who tried to win and win well - and it was successful enough in the Championship but a failure in the Premiership.  Russ carried on playing the same way with pretty much the same players hoping to replicate it in the EPL. He made some minor adjustments but went down with his ship rather than abandon them. Scorn him as a loser scorn his as obstinate but you cannot scorn his idealistic beliefs. THAT was/is admiral imo. 

A manager too myopic to be flexible does not get my admiration.

[Osvaldorama]

7 hours ago, gio1saints said:

You’ve missed the point. Arguably because your aggressive impulse to hit out at me got the better of you. 

What you call grandeur nobility and higher meaning I call what every Saints supporter actually really wants. IF they had the honesty to admit it. We all want Saints to win more than lose, of course but, and this is my point, ideally, to win playing the game beautifully. 
 

I get one man’s meat is another man’s poison and for many his style of play was poison not even close to beauty but that’s not the issue. 

We had a Manager who tried to win and win well - and it was successful enough in the Championship but a failure in the Premiership.  Russ carried on playing the same way with pretty much the same players hoping to replicate it in the EPL. He made some minor adjustments but went down with his ship rather than abandon them. Scorn him as a loser scorn his as obstinate but you cannot scorn his idealistic beliefs. THAT was/is admiral imo. 

You have to be on a wind up 😂 Fair play 

[ApprenticeBillionaire]

8 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Scorn him as a loser scorn his as obstinate but you cannot scorn his idealistic beliefs. THAT was/is admiral imo. 

How very very fucking admirable.

What was it? Something like 6 fucking points at the time we sacked him?

Very likely to beat the worst points record for a Premier League club in 18 years.

How very fucking admirable.

[Miltonaggro]

On 21/03/2025 at 21:04, CB Fry said:

You've gotcha'd me there and no mistake. Turns out Russell Martin really was the very best available manager on the planet.

Sincere apologies.

[Badger]

On 23/03/2025 at 11:40, StrangelyBrown said:

Give me Koeman, Poch, Ball or Nichol over Martin any day - those guys knew what good looked like and knew how to entertain.

They knew how to win matches from time to time as well. 

[tdmickey3]

I cant believe he hasn't got another job yet😁

Surely they can see his quality? We certainly can

[Willo of Whiteley]

I think most would take him back over Ivan Juric. I think had people known what a failure IJ was going to be they’d have preferred leaving him in place.

He gave us one of the most enjoyable seasons we’ve had for years. Play off trophy, a win at Wembley, triple beating of Leeds who were favourites for the title, unforgettable comebacks, dominant performances.

You can’t slate him, he did exceptionally well last season with those around him, the club and fanbase was united.

He’s ultimately failed due to two things:
1) His stubborn tactics on occasion, persisting with the same thing again and again and thinking it will change. 
2) The summer window, lack of backing and lack of direction. He was naive to think the likes of Ryan Fraser and Alex McCarthy would be suitable for the Premier League, yet stood by them out of loyalty. No director of football meant he was largely ok to scatter gun his signings with no thoughts or seemingly a committee to bounce ideas off.

Since his Sky appearance he appears to have realised his mistakes. If he last learned to tinker and attack teams with pace rather than pass out from the back consistently.

I’d take him back now. But that ship has sailed, so whoever comes in next I hope it’s Spors decision, I hope that it’s a manager that wants to be here, I hope it is attacking football, and I hope it’s someone that will try and stick around longer than the previous footballing hierarchy (DoF, manager etc).

[ApprenticeBillionaire]

53 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I think most would take him back over Ivan Juric. I think had people known what a failure IJ was going to be they’d have preferred leaving him in place.

Are you on glue?

[Badger]

57 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I think most would take him back over Ivan Juric. I think had people known what a failure IJ was going to be they’d have preferred leaving him in place.

He gave us one of the most enjoyable seasons we’ve had for years. Play off trophy, a win at Wembley, triple beating of Leeds who were favourites for the title, unforgettable comebacks, dominant performances.

You can’t slate him, he did exceptionally well last season with those around him, the club and fanbase was united.

He’s ultimately failed due to two things:
1) His stubborn tactics on occasion, persisting with the same thing again and again and thinking it will change. 
2) The summer window, lack of backing and lack of direction. He was naive to think the likes of Ryan Fraser and Alex McCarthy would be suitable for the Premier League, yet stood by them out of loyalty. No director of football meant he was largely ok to scatter gun his signings with no thoughts or seemingly a committee to bounce ideas off.

Since his Sky appearance he appears to have realised his mistakes. If he last learned to tinker and attack teams with pace rather than pass out from the back consistently.

I’d take him back now. But that ship has sailed, so whoever comes in next I hope it’s Spors decision, I hope that it’s a manager that wants to be here, I hope it is attacking football, and I hope it’s someone that will try and stick around longer than the previous footballing hierarchy (DoF, manager etc).

The only reason I’d have wanted  him to stay in the post is so that he could have taken full ‘credit’ and abuse for the shit show he’s created. 
 

How far he is responsible for the transfers coming in is perhaps debatable but team selection and tactics were down to him.

[Badger]

1 hour ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

You can’t slate him, he did exceptionally well last season with those around him, the club and fanbase was united.

He’s ultimately failed due to two things:
1) His stubborn tactics on occasion, persisting with the same thing again and again and thinking it will change. 
2) The summer window, lack of backing and lack of direction. He was naive to think the likes of Ryan Fraser and Alex McCarthy would be suitable for the Premier League, yet stood by them out of loyalty. No director of football meant he was largely ok to scatter gun his signings with no thoughts or seemingly a committee to bounce ideas off.

Since his Sky appearance he appears to have realised his mistakes. If he last learned to tinker and attack teams with pace rather than pass out from the back consistently.

I’d take him back now. But that ship has sailed, so whoever comes in next I hope it’s Spors decision, I hope that it’s a manager that wants to be here, I hope it is attacking football, and I hope it’s someone that will try and stick around longer than the previous footballing hierarchy (DoF, manager etc).

Perhaps you haven’t been on the forum long enough to meet Lord Duckhunter.

I’m sure he’ll be along in a minute .. … 

[Badger]

1 hour ago, tdmickey3 said:

I cant believe he hasn't got another job yet😁

Surely they can see his quality? We certainly can

Perhaps he’s had a tip off that Cortese wants him for AC Milan once he’s got his feet under the table as CEO there 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I think most would take him back over Ivan Juric. I think had people known what a failure IJ was going to be they’d have preferred leaving him in place.

He gave us one of the most enjoyable seasons we’ve had for years. Play off trophy, a win at Wembley, triple beating of Leeds who were favourites for the title, unforgettable comebacks, dominant performances.

You can’t slate him, he did exceptionally well last season with those around him, the club and fanbase was united.

He’s ultimately failed due to two things:
1) His stubborn tactics on occasion, persisting with the same thing again and again and thinking it will change. 
2) The summer window, lack of backing and lack of direction. He was naive to think the likes of Ryan Fraser and Alex McCarthy would be suitable for the Premier League, yet stood by them out of loyalty. No director of football meant he was largely ok to scatter gun his signings with no thoughts or seemingly a committee to bounce ideas off.

Since his Sky appearance he appears to have realised his mistakes. If he last learned to tinker and attack teams with pace rather than pass out from the back consistently.

I’d take him back now. But that ship has sailed, so whoever comes in next I hope it’s Spors decision, I hope that it’s a manager that wants to be here, I hope it is attacking football, and I hope it’s someone that will try and stick around longer than the previous footballing hierarchy (DoF, manager etc).

To borrow a phrase from Lord D, what a load of fuckin pony.

Edited Thursday at 11:35 by Lee On Solent Saint

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I think most would take him back over Ivan Juric. I think had people known what a failure IJ was going to be they’d have preferred leaving him in place.

He gave us one of the most enjoyable seasons we’ve had for years. Play off trophy, a win at Wembley, triple beating of Leeds who were favourites for the title, unforgettable comebacks, dominant performances.

You can’t slate him, he did exceptionally well last season with those around him, the club and fanbase was united.

He’s ultimately failed due to two things:
1) His stubborn tactics on occasion, persisting with the same thing again and again and thinking it will change. 
2) The summer window, lack of backing and lack of direction. He was naive to think the likes of Ryan Fraser and Alex McCarthy would be suitable for the Premier League, yet stood by them out of loyalty. No director of football meant he was largely ok to scatter gun his signings with no thoughts or seemingly a committee to bounce ideas off.

Since his Sky appearance he appears to have realised his mistakes. If he last learned to tinker and attack teams with pace rather than pass out from the back consistently.

I’d take him back now. But that ship has sailed, so whoever comes in next I hope it’s Spors decision, I hope that it’s a manager that wants to be here, I hope it is attacking football, and I hope it’s someone that will try and stick around longer than the previous footballing hierarchy (DoF, manager etc).

You're right, the ship has sailed and we need to look forward, not back.

Consensus was, although they'll dispute it, that "it couldn't get any worse" and heavy metal football was welcomed, IJ's pragmatism was celebrated as was his embarrassing row in the car park with a sporting director - just what we needed, apparently.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

38 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

You're right, the ship has sailed and we need to look forward, not back.

Consensus was, although they'll dispute it, that "it couldn't get any worse" and heavy metal football was welcomed, IJ's pragmatism was celebrated as was his embarrassing row in the car park with a sporting director - just what we needed, apparently.

 

In truth, it hasn’t really got any worse. 

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

In truth, it hasn’t really got any worse. 

Ok, if you say so

[RedArmy]

5 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

In truth, it hasn’t really got any worse. 

It fucking has. 

[BarberSaint]

8 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I think most would take him back over Ivan Juric. I think had people known what a failure IJ was going to be they’d have preferred leaving him in place.

He gave us one of the most enjoyable seasons we’ve had for years. Play off trophy, a win at Wembley, triple beating of Leeds who were favourites for the title, unforgettable comebacks, dominant performances.

You can’t slate him, he did exceptionally well last season with those around him, the club and fanbase was united.

He’s ultimately failed due to two things:
1) His stubborn tactics on occasion, persisting with the same thing again and again and thinking it will change. 
2) The summer window, lack of backing and lack of direction. He was naive to think the likes of Ryan Fraser and Alex McCarthy would be suitable for the Premier League, yet stood by them out of loyalty. No director of football meant he was largely ok to scatter gun his signings with no thoughts or seemingly a committee to bounce ideas off.

Since his Sky appearance he appears to have realised his mistakes. If he last learned to tinker and attack teams with pace rather than pass out from the back consistently.

I’d take him back now. But that ship has sailed, so whoever comes in next I hope it’s Spors decision, I hope that it’s a manager that wants to be here, I hope it is attacking football, and I hope it’s someone that will try and stick around longer than the previous footballing hierarchy (DoF, manager etc).

I think he's left you for someone called 'Lucy'.

[Gloucester Saint]

Every time this thread is bumped, I’m hoping that he’s finally moved on and taken a decent job elsewhere. Hopefully in the summer….

Turns out like Gavin Bazanu that whilst SR rate him, the rest of English football doesn’t.

Given SR’s record, I’ll trust the rest of English football.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

20 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

It fucking has. 

If it has so be it, would rather it got bad than have to put up with that arrogant and smug fucker. 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, RedArmy said:

It fucking has. 

It was as bad as it could be anyway.

[trousers]

7 hours ago, notnowcato said:

"it couldn't get any worse" 

 

7 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

In truth, it hasn’t really got any worse. 

 

1 hour ago, RedArmy said:

It fucking has. 

Diarrhea is worse than stools. Both shit though....

(Other equally apt analogies are no doubt available)

[aintforever]

It fucking has got worse, SR would be mental to keep him on for next season.

[CB Fry]

11 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I think most would take him back over Ivan Juric. I think had people known what a failure IJ was going to be they’d have preferred leaving him in place.

He gave us one of the most enjoyable seasons we’ve had for years. Play off trophy, a win at Wembley, triple beating of Leeds who were favourites for the title, unforgettable comebacks, dominant performances.

You can’t slate him, he did exceptionally well last season with those around him, the club and fanbase was united.

He’s ultimately failed due to two things:
1) His stubborn tactics on occasion, persisting with the same thing again and again and thinking it will change. 
2) The summer window, lack of backing and lack of direction. He was naive to think the likes of Ryan Fraser and Alex McCarthy would be suitable for the Premier League, yet stood by them out of loyalty. No director of football meant he was largely ok to scatter gun his signings with no thoughts or seemingly a committee to bounce ideas off.

Since his Sky appearance he appears to have realised his mistakes. If he last learned to tinker and attack teams with pace rather than pass out from the back consistently.

I’d take him back now. But that ship has sailed, so whoever comes in next I hope it’s Spors decision, I hope that it’s a manager that wants to be here, I hope it is attacking football, and I hope it’s someone that will try and stick around longer than the previous footballing hierarchy (DoF, manager etc).

Jesus wept.

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

 

 

Diarrhea is worse than stools. Both shit though....

(Other equally apt analogies are no doubt available)

Crap analogy 

[trousers]

2 hours ago, notnowcato said:

Crap analogy 

[Willo of Whiteley]

I wasn’t expecting those kind of responses.

I’m just saying do I think that Ivan Juric has done much to improve the team - no I don’t.

Do I think he is the answer for next season - no I don’t.

The only metric we’ve even slightly improved on is goals scored by something like 0.2%, out goals conceded is got worse, so are we arguably worse defensively - yes we are.

Do I think that we’d be in double figures if we’d stuck with Russell Martin - yes I do. IJ has tried to tinker to often and has basically played everyone out of position and with no midfield since his first game.
His first game as manager may as well have been him turning to the squad and saying “spread your cheeks, lads” because that’s effectively what has happened.

Do I think Russell Martin would’ve benefitted from Johannes Spors coming in sooner - absolutely.
But ultimately with results the way they were Russell Martin had to go after that Spurs game.

In hindsight even after that Spurs game do I think we should’ve stuck with RM over Ivan Juric - yes. Wouldn’t it have been nice to play that run of games over Christmas and new year with players in the right positions etc and no self sabotage.
Even if he’d only stayed til the end of this season and then we got rid of him I think that would’ve been better.

I hope this helps. It’s all a game of opinions. 
To answer an earlier question, no I am not on glue. 😂

 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I wasn’t expecting those kind of responses.

I’m just saying do I think that Ivan Juric has done much to improve the team - no I don’t.

Do I think he is the answer for next season - no I don’t.

The only metric we’ve even slightly improved on is goals scored by something like 0.2%, out goals conceded is got worse, so are we arguably worse defensively - yes we are.

Do I think that we’d be in double figures if we’d stuck with Russell Martin - yes I do. IJ has tried to tinker to often and has basically played everyone out of position and with no midfield since his first game.
His first game as manager may as well have been him turning to the squad and saying “spread your cheeks, lads” because that’s effectively what has happened.

Do I think Russell Martin would’ve benefitted from Johannes Spors coming in sooner - absolutely.
But ultimately with results the way they were Russell Martin had to go after that Spurs game.

In hindsight even after that Spurs game do I think we should’ve stuck with RM over Ivan Juric - yes. Wouldn’t it have been nice to play that run of games over Christmas and new year with players in the right positions etc and no self sabotage.
Even if he’d only stayed til the end of this season and then we got rid of him I think that would’ve been better.

I hope this helps. It’s all a game of opinions. 
To answer an earlier question, no I am not on glue. 😂

 

Are you sticking to that?

[macca155]

13 hours ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Every time this thread is bumped, I’m hoping that he’s finally moved on and taken a decent job elsewhere. Hopefully in the summer….

Turns out like Gavin Bazanu that whilst SR rate him, the rest of English football doesn’t.

Given SR’s record, I’ll trust the rest of English football.

There's the nub of it. Saints were financial bullies in the Championship. RM's weaknesses were masked by some pretty hefty investment. He did a good job with those resources last year, but as you say the football world has seen his limitations.

If he is genuinely able to self reflect and adapt, he'll be a successful manager somewhere.

Juric is a caretaker, that's obvious. It feels like SR gave up before Christmas by appointing him.

[Midfield_General]

3 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

In hindsight even after that Spurs game do I think we should’ve stuck with RM over Ivan Juric - yes. Wouldn’t it have been nice to play that run of games over Christmas and new year with players in the right positions etc and no self sabotage.

It’s absolutely a game of opinions mate and of course you are very welcome to share yours but with the greatest respect, did you see some of the mental shit that Martin was doing in terms of formations and players out of position? I can’t be bothered to list them all out but two very obvious ones were: 1) Forest at home with that absurd U-shape with Armstrong on one far touchline, BBD on the other and no-one at all in the middle, and 2) Bournemouth away where he had five strikers on the bench but started Fernandes (a midfielder) and Dibling (a winger) as a two up front. We were a complete mess in both games. 

In terms of ‘self sabotage’, it’s hard to think of any manager who self-sabotaged more than Martin with the way he forced our very limited players to play out and put themselves under immediate pressure in our own box when it was entirely unnecessary. As a direct result of that we gave away more goals from errors than anyone else in the league, and gave up more goalscoring opportunities to the opposition than anyone else in the league. That was all self-inflicted and was entirely on him. 

He was the absolute definition of self-sabotage and that’s why so many people were so furious with him. Yes we had a poor squad, yes we probably would have gone down anyway, but the way he made us play meant that in most games we were having to do it with one hand metaphorically tied behind our backs so we couldn’t even give ourselves a chance of grinding out a few confidence (and points)-boosting 0-0s or 1-0 wins early on in the season when we still had a bit of hope that we might be able to compete, at least against the bottom sides. But no, we pissed those games away, the players realised it was hopeless and gave up, and here we are. 

Juric has been awful too but that doesn’t change the fact that Martin was completely out of his depth, was in cloud cuckoo land thinking that this awful squad could play out like Man City against premier league opposition, and he absolutely had to go. 

I also didn’t hear any contrition at all during his Sky appearance. During the bit I watched he had the sheer brass neck to criticise Spurs for playing out, and said how surprised he had been that premier league players were fast and physical. At that point I switched it off before I did my telly a mischief. 

All just IMHO of course. 

(Welcome to the board btw  )

Edited Friday at 09:32 by Midfield_General

[Willo of Whiteley]

I don’t disagree with any of the above. 

I think we all wanted it to work and ultimately it hasn’t for a whole multitude of reasons.

Whoever comes in next it needs to be with long term aspirations.

A style of play. An attacking mentality. A dominating mentality. We take the game to the opposition, we don’t crumble under pressure etc.

I’d like to see 75% of the current squad shifted along. I’m sure there will be wholesale changes, none of this loaning out of players, if they don’t want to be here - get rid, simple as that. They are of no benefit staying on the books. 

I hope the next manager is allowed to make decisions for the good of the team. Not for the good of Sports Republic’s stupid multi-club model. Imagine being brought in as the new manager and told “The Goztepe loaners from last season must be used by Saints in the Championship this season”, you’d be pretty hacked off (dependant on ability).

Let the new DoF and manager work together and build the club up.

SR need to win supporters back quickly. The right appointment is essential.

[Kermitzasaint]

On 22/03/2025 at 16:24, gio1saints said:

No, your memory is incomplete. Rewriting  history is common practice but just to refresh your mind : Rus did not reinvent anything - he just took some commonly approved ( not so much as of this season) and successful football principles - see Barca, Man City, Spain, - and applied them to there extreme with Saints - with sufficient success in the Championship level - but abject failure in the EPL.

Aspiring to reach the highest standard of football possible and destined to do so are not the same. Nobody has said it was destiny. But not daring to dream is not worthy of a Saints Manager, imo. Being pragmatic is not cowardly either I hasten to add - but few have the willpower to know what you can do unless you try and persist until you get the chop like he did? Russ was victory or die trying. He and team - and support let’s not forget - died trying. Should not be a matter of scorn but of pride. 
 

Aspiration is a dirty word for some if you lose matches whilst on the journey. For others it is a reason why we support the team. There has to be some hope some thought some reason for the team and why/how it plays. With Russ in the championship he achieved that. Did not work in the EPL. Currently with Ivan I’m struggling to determine anything- good or bad. Also struggling to find positives despite my instinct to be optimistic unless there is a big reset. 

I think it was obvious now that the Board should have made better decisions in close season - especially with regard to replacing Wilcox. Hopefully lessons  learned ahead of our Championship season next time out. 🙏

Russ hardly died trying to succeed . The team barely looked like it was trying to do anything related to winning anything other than possession stats

[James G]

11 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I wasn’t expecting those kind of responses.

I’m just saying do I think that Ivan Juric has done much to improve the team - no I don’t.

Do I think he is the answer for next season - no I don’t.

The only metric we’ve even slightly improved on is goals scored by something like 0.2%, out goals conceded is got worse, so are we arguably worse defensively - yes we are.

Do I think that we’d be in double figures if we’d stuck with Russell Martin - yes I do. IJ has tried to tinker to often and has basically played everyone out of position and with no midfield since his first game.
His first game as manager may as well have been him turning to the squad and saying “spread your cheeks, lads” because that’s effectively what has happened.

Do I think Russell Martin would’ve benefitted from Johannes Spors coming in sooner - absolutely.
But ultimately with results the way they were Russell Martin had to go after that Spurs game.

In hindsight even after that Spurs game do I think we should’ve stuck with RM over Ivan Juric - yes. Wouldn’t it have been nice to play that run of games over Christmas and new year with players in the right positions etc and no self sabotage.
Even if he’d only stayed til the end of this season and then we got rid of him I think that would’ve been better.

I hope this helps. It’s all a game of opinions. 
To answer an earlier question, no I am not on glue. 😂

 

Alot of wordy posts here lol

It looks as though the Pep's way of playing, generally speaking, is not working and football has moved on. Russ needs to find a new way of playing otherwise he'll be joining Stig on the football dump.

I like some of the players we have but they need to be tougher and fitter. Send them all off to the gym in the Summer 

[stknowle]

9 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

It’s absolutely a game of opinions mate and of course you are very welcome to share yours but with the greatest respect, did you see some of the mental shit that Martin was doing in terms of formations and players out of position? I can’t be bothered to list them all out but two very obvious ones were: 1) Forest at home with that absurd U-shape with Armstrong on one far touchline, BBD on the other and no-one at all in the middle, and 2) Bournemouth away where he had five strikers on the bench but started Fernandes (a midfielder) and Dibling (a winger) as a two up front. We were a complete mess in both games. 

In terms of ‘self sabotage’, it’s hard to think of any manager who self-sabotaged more than Martin with the way he forced our very limited players to play out and put themselves under immediate pressure in our own box when it was entirely unnecessary. As a direct result of that we gave away more goals from errors than anyone else in the league, and gave up more goalscoring opportunities to the opposition than anyone else in the league. That was all self-inflicted and was entirely on him. 

He was the absolute definition of self-sabotage and that’s why so many people were so furious with him. Yes we had a poor squad, yes we probably would have gone down anyway, but the way he made us play meant that in most games we were having to do it with one hand metaphorically tied behind our backs so we couldn’t even give ourselves a chance of grinding out a few confidence (and points)-boosting 0-0s or 1-0 wins early on in the season when we still had a bit of hope that we might be able to compete, at least against the bottom sides. But no, we pissed those games away, the players realised it was hopeless and gave up, and here we are. 

Juric has been awful too but that doesn’t change the fact that Martin was completely out of his depth, was in cloud cuckoo land thinking that this awful squad could play out like Man City against premier league opposition, and he absolutely had to go. 

I also didn’t hear any contrition at all during his Sky appearance. During the bit I watched he had the sheer brass neck to criticise Spurs for playing out, and said how surprised he had been that premier league players were fast and physical. At that point I switched it off before I did my telly a mischief. 

All just IMHO of course. 

(Welcome to the board btw  )

Good post. He even said at one point this season, can’t recall when and it doesn’t really matter, that he ‘wasn’t here to grind out results’ (or similar). What an absolute deluxe edition plum.

Edited Friday at 18:49 by stknowle

[skintsaint]

On 28/03/2025 at 18:47, stknowle said:

Good post. He even said at one point this season, can’t recall when and it doesn’t really matter, that he ‘wasn’t here to grind out results’ (or similar). What an absolute deluxe edition plum.

 

[Gloucester Saint]

3 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

 

Absolute stupidity, especially as IIRC this came hot off the heels of the Chelsea mauling which but for the post, bar and them totally taking their foot off the gas, could have been 12, 13, maybe even 15 goals to Chelsea to our 1.