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Russell Martin

LegalEagle

By LegalEagle
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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:08, Lighthouse said:

Everyone will focus on the first goal and say ‘look Russball FFS!’ But the third, fourth and fifth goals were nothing to do with that. Chelsea picked up possession in their own half, scythed us open with far superior players and scored three good goals. The more we go long, the more we give the ball away and the more time the opposition have time and space to craft opportunities like.

I don’t think our way of playing highlights our inadequacies, they just genuinely are inadequate. If anything I’d say we’ve given a few teams a better game than I expected.

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"the third, fourth and fifth goals against us weren't the managers fault" is not the slam-dunk defence of Russell Martin you think it is.

  • Like 12
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:11, RedArmy said:

The first goal being a corner? What’s that got to do with Russball? 
 

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Sorry, meant the second.

  On 04/12/2024 at 22:11, LGTL said:

You realise the more you mention the inadequacy of the players, the more you disprove your own point right? If they’re so fucking bad and Championship level, why the FUCK is our loon of a manager not being more pragmatic?

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What do you mean by pragmatic? If you just mean going more direct with less passing, I’ve just explained why I don’t think that will yield any improvement.

Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:14, Lighthouse said:

Sorry, meant the second.

What do you mean by pragmatic? If you just mean going more direct with less passing, I’ve just explained why I don’t think that will yield any improvement.

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Lighthouse mate, I like you and all that, but when you’re digging a huge hole, best to know when to stop.

The club won’t give you any thanks for it, nor Notnowcato. 

Leave that stuff to 8x8’s lurkers on here, at least they get paid to defend the worst manager in our history.

Edited by Gloucester Saint
  • Like 11
obelisk

obelisk

Posted
Posted

If the plan is to keep Martin in the expectation that he'll get promoted from the Championship again then I'd suggest that would be a bad idea. Plenty of opponents last season had worked out how to counter monotonous Russball and they'd probably now be looking forward to helping themselves to goals when coming up against his team. Time to get rid now and prepare a decent squad and manager for an attacking campaign next season. We're down already.

  • Like 5
austsaint

austsaint

Posted
Posted

 

  On 04/12/2024 at 21:53, Lighthouse said:

Yep. That’s what a massive squad of Championship players will get you.

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Yet, how many transfer windows has Martin had - and finances provided - to re-shape the squad.   It’s obvious he has had a big influence on who has been retained; let go and recruited.  So many of the massive squad of Championship players you speak of are at the Club because of his poor judgement.  It’s another area of culpability he has to own.

In any case I’m not convinced that a team with the likes of Ramsdale - Sugawara - Bednarek/ABK- THB -KWP -Airibo-Downes-Fernandes- Archer- Dibling - Lallana isn’t good enough to have accumulated more than 5 points.  A clinical striker the obvious urgent need.

  • Like 8
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:14, Lighthouse said:

Sorry, meant the second.

What do you mean by pragmatic? If you just mean going more direct with less passing, I’ve just explained why I don’t think that will yield any improvement.

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It's an easy cop out when people counter it by assuming fans mean long ball, far from it.

We can still pass the ball and use the ball, but it's the incessant passing back and around the backline which is killing us. Teams love us doing that because it enables them to push forward, pressure us and more often than not win the ball high up, which will lead to goals and shots.

Being pragmatic means widening the passing angles of the CB's, providing angles in more advanced positions to pass to, and by not using players incredibly technically limited in positions of high stakes doing things like they're doing (Manning/Stephens etc). We can still pass the ball and play football, but maybe we should do that further up the pitch rather than at our own corner flag or across our own goal line. Just saying.

I don't think anyone believes we've got this super team, we don't, it's utter shit - but there could be more of a fight being made of this season, but every game we are setting up in a way that will go into coaching manuals for years to come - ''How not to setup and play as a limited team''.

  • Like 20
benali-shorts

benali-shorts

Posted
Posted

Why oh why do they think he is demonstrating anything to suggest he's the medium or long term answer? He's totally out of his depth in identifying players, building a coaching team or displaying pragmatism. His only saving grace is that he hasn't had a breakdown in the face of the humiliation his team is currently suffering and is willing to face the cameras week after week. 

How many goals playing out from the back do we need to concede before he realises we're not capable of playing that way? 

  • Like 2
austsaint

austsaint

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:11, RedArmy said:

The first goal being a corner? What’s that got to do with Russball? 
 

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Just on the subject of corners, it was claimed by the commentator tonight that Saints have earned 66 corners this season and not scored from any!   Another Prem record to the credit of Martin and his coaching staff.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 2
Colinjb

Colinjb

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:24, benali-shorts said:

His only saving grace is that he hasn't had a breakdown in the face of the humiliation his team is currently suffering and is willing to face the cameras week after week.

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Remarkably easy when you have no self awareness.

  • Like 4
LGTL

LGTL

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:20, S-Clarke said:

It's an easy cop out when people counter it by assuming fans mean long ball, far from it.

We can still pass the ball and use the ball, but it's the incessant passing back and around the backline which is killing us. Teams love us doing that because it enables them to push forward, pressure us and more often than not win the ball high up, which will lead to goals and shots.

Being pragmatic means widening the passing angles of the CB's, providing angles in more advanced positions to pass to, and by not using players incredibly technically limited in positions of high stakes doing things like they're doing (Manning/Stephens etc). We can still pass the ball and play football, but maybe we should do that further up the pitch rather than at our own corner flag or across our own goal line. Just saying.

I don't think anyone believes we've got this super team, we don't, it's utter shit - but there could be more of a fight being made of this season, but every game we are setting up in a way that will go into coaching manuals for years to come - ''How not to setup and play as a limited team''.

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Perfectly put. Lighthouse seems to think it’s Martin’s way, or Wimbledon of the 90’s. Clueless. 

  • Like 2
sfc4prem

sfc4prem

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 21:59, LegalEagle said:

It’s simple. If the fans want him sacked then boycott home games. Nothing will change whilst St Mary’s is full or thereabouts. The club need a rocket up them and fans can do that by voting with their feet. But they won’t. I’m doing my bit and won’t go again home or away until he’s gone.

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Course people will rock up. Cost of living crisis my arse. Many of our fans are seemingly willing to burn their hard-earned cash and then rub the ashes into their eyes.

Good analogy? I tried.

sfc4prem

sfc4prem

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:11, LGTL said:

You realise the more you mention the inadequacy of the players, the more you disprove your own point right? If they’re so fucking bad and Championship level, why the FUCK is our loon of a manager not being more pragmatic?

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Furthermore, why did the bloke agree to signing them in the first place!!!?

  • Like 1
sfc4prem

sfc4prem

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:17, obelisk said:

If the plan is to keep Martin in the expectation that he'll get promoted from the Championship again then I'd suggest that would be a bad idea. Plenty of opponents last season had worked out how to counter monotonous Russball and they'd probably now be looking forward to helping themselves to goals when coming up against his team. Time to get rid now and prepare a decent squad and manager for an attacking campaign next season. We're down already.

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We got beat convincingly by Bristol City and Sunderland, to back you up with two examples.

  • Like 3
HarvSFC

HarvSFC

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:20, S-Clarke said:

It's an easy cop out when people counter it by assuming fans mean long ball, far from it.

We can still pass the ball and use the ball, but it's the incessant passing back and around the backline which is killing us. Teams love us doing that because it enables them to push forward, pressure us and more often than not win the ball high up, which will lead to goals and shots.

Being pragmatic means widening the passing angles of the CB's, providing angles in more advanced positions to pass to, and by not using players incredibly technically limited in positions of high stakes doing things like they're doing (Manning/Stephens etc). We can still pass the ball and play football, but maybe we should do that further up the pitch rather than at our own corner flag or across our own goal line. Just saying.

I don't think anyone believes we've got this super team, we don't, it's utter shit - but there could be more of a fight being made of this season, but every game we are setting up in a way that will go into coaching manuals for years to come - ''How not to setup and play as a limited team''.

Expand  

Indeed. Two of the top five passers in the league are Bednarek and Harwood-Bellis... And they haven't played every week this season. All the football is being played in our half of the pitch. Most teams in the league play out from the back now, Chelsea did tonight. But, you don't see teams giving away the goals that we do. It would be a hell of a lot better if the footballers were in the middle of the pitch, rather than our last line of defence.

This isn't a Kompany/Maresca situation either, which I think the board are clinging to. Yes, they were both known for playing attractive football. But, they also got their big jobs from walking the Championship with both Burnley and Leicester. Martin had a good Championship side, and he took it to fourth with a relegation battling goals against tally.

The fans turned for the first time tonight, anyway. Wasn't quite a Jones situation, but the sounds of "you're getting sacked in the morning" will have been noticed. Whether we actually do something for a change will be another story.

  • Like 3
Harry_SFC

Harry_SFC

Posted
Posted (edited)

Martin: “The people I bump into in the town and city centre have been amazing, nothing but supportive and understanding of the process of what we’re trying to build.” #saintsfc [amazon]

How convenient that he only seems to bump into Gio, Lighthouse or Fabrice. What are the chances. 

Edited by Harry_SFC
  • Like 1
  • Haha 11
Oldandtired

Oldandtired

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:40, Harry_SFC said:

Martin: “The people I bump into in the town and city centre have been amazing, nothing but supportive and understanding of the process of what we’re trying to build.” #saintsfc [amazon]

 

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Don’t forget some people like League One football.

  • Haha 1
Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:40, Harry_SFC said:

Martin: “The people I bump into in the town and city centre have been amazing, nothing but supportive and understanding of the process of what we’re trying to build.” #saintsfc [amazon]

How convenient that he only seems to bump into Gio, Lighthouse or Fabrice. What are the chances. 

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All the humility of Colonel Gadaffi. 

beatlesaint

beatlesaint

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:47, Roger said:

The fact that Martin is sticking up for the disgrace of Jack Stephens has made me finished with him. 

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Yes that’s unbelievable, he should be calling out Stephens for letting down what was a patchwork team that started off quite well - at least until Chelsea adapted to the 7 changes they made. 
 

To try and stick up for him and paper over the petulance of that sending off is embarrassing 

  • Like 4
Dr. Kucho

Dr. Kucho

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:40, Harry_SFC said:

Martin: “The people I bump into in the town and city centre have been amazing, nothing but supportive and understanding of the process of what we’re trying to build.” #saintsfc [amazon]

How convenient that he only seems to bump into Gio, Lighthouse or Fabrice. What are the chances. 

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Or been Christmas shopping in Gunwarf..

  • Haha 3
Fabrice29

Fabrice29

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:17, obelisk said:

Time to get rid now and prepare a decent squad and manager for an attacking campaign next season. We're down already.

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Impressive that amongst all the nonsense in this thread this continues to be the silliest belief every time someone says this. Just completely oblivious that the next manager in charge is going to lose a lot of football matches before next seasons ‘attacking campaign’…and that won’t be popular. 

Lee On Solent Saint

Lee On Solent Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:53, beatlesaint said:

Yes that’s unbelievable, he should be calling out Stephens for letting down what was a patchwork team that started off quite well - at least until Chelsea adapted to the 7 changes they made. 
 

To try and stick up for him and paper over the petulance of that sending off is embarrassing 

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You can't defend that, its a fuckin embarrassment. Your captain gets sent off for pulling an opponents hair, absolute twat. 

  • Like 4
Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:56, Fabrice29 said:

Impressive that amongst all the nonsense in this thread this continues to be the silliest belief every time someone says this. Just completely oblivious that the next manager in charge is going to lose a lot of football matches before next seasons ‘attacking campaign’…and that won’t be popular. 

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Steve Cooper or someone else would be cut quite a lot of slack. As long as the team aren’t giving 2 goals away every game from pointless passing between the CBs and Keepers I think we can live with anything else. Quite frankly, beating Derby’s low points record would represent success right now post Rusty the Clown.

Do pass this onto the club.

Edited by Gloucester Saint
  • Like 3
Lee On Solent Saint

Lee On Solent Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:56, Fabrice29 said:

Impressive that amongst all the nonsense in this thread this continues to be the silliest belief every time someone says this. Just completely oblivious that the next manager in charge is going to lose a lot of football matches before next seasons ‘attacking campaign’…and that won’t be popular. 

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I couldn't care less who takes over, just want him sacked. 

  • Like 5
Fabrice29

Fabrice29

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:58, Gloucester Saint said:

Steve Cooper or someone else would be cut quite a lot of slack. As long as the team aren’t giving 2 goals away every game from pointless passing between the CBs and Keepers I think we can live with anything else. Quite frankly, beating Derby’s low points record woyld represent success right now post Rusty the Clown.

Do pass this onto the club.

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It’s just not true any manager would be cut any slack if bought in now. We went through 2 further managers last time we were in this position remember? Neither were cut any slack.

As for Cooper and the Derby record…we’re on course for beating that anyway if you really think that’s success and Cooper has just been sacked from a club we need to finish above of because the players thought he was clueless, so it’s not a glowing reference really.

Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:40, Harry_SFC said:

Martin: “The people I bump into in the town and city centre have been amazing, nothing but supportive and understanding of the process of what we’re trying to build.” #saintsfc [amazon]

How convenient that he only seems to bump into Gio, Lighthouse or Fabrice. What are the chances. 

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Wish I had bumped into the idiot.   Fucking useless prick.

  • Like 2
saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 22:39, HarvSFC said:

Indeed. Two of the top five passers in the league are Bednarek and Harwood-Bellis... And they haven't played every week this season. All the football is being played in our half of the pitch. Most teams in the league play out from the back now, Chelsea did tonight. But, you don't see teams giving away the goals that we do. It would be a hell of a lot better if the footballers were in the middle of the pitch, rather than our last line of defence.

This isn't a Kompany/Maresca situation either, which I think the board are clinging to. Yes, they were both known for playing attractive football. But, they also got their big jobs from walking the Championship with both Burnley and Leicester. Martin had a good Championship side, and he took it to fourth with a relegation battling goals against tally.

The fans turned for the first time tonight, anyway. Wasn't quite a Jones situation, but the sounds of "you're getting sacked in the morning" will have been noticed. Whether we actually do something for a change will be another story.

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When we play out from the back it reminds me of one of those acts where a guy spins plates but does it badly. We look so uncomfortable and it's almost comical to see one bad pass followed by a worse one then one worse still and watch the abject panic set in on our players faces - it's Russian roulette played with a football.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 2
Lee On Solent Saint

Lee On Solent Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 23:05, Fabrice29 said:

You would though. 

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Believe me, I wouldn't. Sick of the same bullshit being said after every defeat. Sick of the smug look on his face when he talks about every defeat. Sick of hearing how much he loves the players. Sick of hearing about the bollocks of the process. SR need to grow a pair and sack him. Watching Saints is not enjoyable at the moment.

  • Like 2
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 23:03, Fabrice29 said:

It’s just not true any manager would be cut any slack if bought in now

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The manager that Sheffield United brought in this time last year was cut some slack... So much so that they kept him on this season and he's not doing too bad now.... Why couldn't the same happen here...? 

  • Like 4
  • Haha 1
benali-shorts

benali-shorts

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 23:03, Fabrice29 said:

It’s just not true any manager would be cut any slack if bought in now. We went through 2 further managers last time we were in this position remember? Neither were cut any slack.

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Ralph was a harder act and a higher bar to follow, and hopefully our next manager will be less shit than Jones and Selles. Any potential replacement shouldn't be judged by their inadequacy. 

  • Like 2
Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 04/12/2024 at 23:03, Fabrice29 said:

It’s just not true any manager would be cut any slack if bought in now. We went through 2 further managers last time we were in this position remember? Neither were cut any slack.

As for Cooper and the Derby record…we’re on course for beating that anyway if you really think that’s success and Cooper has just been sacked from a club we need to finish above of because the players thought he was clueless, so it’s not a glowing reference really.

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He’d joined from their fierce rivals, it had as much chance of working out as when Redknapp joined from Pompey. Harry shouldn’t have come here, Steve shouldn’t have gone there. Didn’t do Harry much harm and Cooper will bounce back. I reckon we’re the type of project he’d consider if Rasmus kept his nose right out. 

Cooper also has made a promoted side stay up and compete and took them up from 23rd place. As Trousers said, Wilder already a top 10 finish in the PL, went back to the Blades and working out well.

Edited by Gloucester Saint
  • Like 1
Fabrice29

Fabrice29

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 23:19, Gloucester Saint said:

He’d joined from their fierce rivals, it had as much chance of working out as when Redknapp joined from Pompey. Harry shouldn’t have come here, Steve shouldn’t have gone there. Didn’t do Harry much harm and Cooper will bounce back. I reckon we’re the type of project he’d consider if Rasmus kept his nose right out. 

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‘Fierce rivalry blah blah blah’. The players he worked with on a daily basis actively requested he was sacked. That’s the reality

Fabrice29

Fabrice29

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 23:15, trousers said:

The manager that Sheffield United brought in this time last year was cut some slack... So much so that they kept him on this season and he's not doing too bad now.... Why couldn't the same happen here...? 

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Do you really need me to explain why the manager Sheffield United bought in might be slightly different? Unless we’re bringing back Strachan it’s not at all comparable.

  • Haha 2
Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 04/12/2024 at 23:22, Fabrice29 said:

‘Fierce rivalry blah blah blah’. The players he worked with on a daily basis actively requested he was sacked. That’s the reality

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You have your view, I have mine. Sometimes a club and a manager aren’t right but the manager goes on to do well.

Whereas your mate has conceded a relegation amount of goals at three different clubs. Indicates he can’t organise a defence and team structure - bit of fundamental one.

The goals against at MK, Swansea, SFC beats blah blah blah. And Cooper’s record at Swansea kicks RM’s arse to boot.

  • Like 4

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