Russell Martin

[LGTL]

He’s massively arrogant but certainly not naive. He genuinely thinks that this boring possession based nonsense will actually win him games in this league eventually. Arrogant and deluded is probably more apt. 

[StrangelyBrown]

12 hours ago, Midfield_General said:

From today’s Guardian:

“Trying to find hope for Russell Martin’s side going into this fixture is tricky. At Wolves they failed to have a shot on target despite having 72% possession and they will not dominate the ball in the same manner on Sunday. Southampton’s style is about passing and patient buildup and it is unlikely Martin will ever change, even if the club’s Premier League status and his employment are at risk. All teams need an element of surprise, whether they are first or last, in order to keep opponents guessing, but Southampton’s predictability is their downfall and explains why they are bottom. Reacting when something is not working is a sign of a good coach.” 

The guardian have missed the point - the longer this goes on the more other teams will think RM is going to change something and then they'll fall for his cunning plan, unknowing that he's tricked them into second guessing his non-existent plan B

[Tommy Mulgrew]

On 16/11/2024 at 17:56, Tommy Mulgrew said:

We have been promoted to the first division or premier league before.  Each time we stayed in that league a long time before being relegated.  During that time we sometimes played well and sometimes played badly; sometimes we were exciting to watch and sometimes excruciating.

Now we are tying something different: bravely trying a revolutionary way of playing with the intention of overturning the EPL world order to become one of the big boys and thus deserving of gio’s support and admiration.  The trouble is that our way of playing is not revolutionary at all: plenty of other teams do it, and much better than us, too.  And those teams play with a pace and intensity that we can only dream of; and they vary their style to suit the opposition and the occasion.  We do not do that; we play an exaggerated version of possession football, which reduces our ability to score and thus win games or draw them.  Without wins or draws, we do not accumulate enough points to avoid certain relegation.

How can us non-believers get excited by ploughing a lonely but brave furrow if all it does is give us a worse chance of survival in the premier league than we would have if we were to play to the strengths of our squad of players and try to win games and hence stay in the EPL, where most of want to play for as many seasons as possible?

Absolutely barking mad.

 

On 21/11/2024 at 14:04, Tommy Mulgrew said:

How do you think we shall ever be competitive in the EPL by playing unadulterated Russball, which results in few goals (for us), with players who are nowhere near as good as those in up to 19 other teams who play less extreme PB football complemented by variations of playing style that lead to goals (for them) being scored?  We shall always be behind, doing our walking-pace version of chasing every game, and no more competitive as we are now.  I cannot fathom how you believe we can do it.

I’m waiting for gio’s reply.  So far, the silence has been deafening.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

 

I’m waiting for gio’s reply.  So far, the silence has been deafening.

Which has been bloody fantastic.

[Roo1976]

What hes still here..........................and we've had the relatively easy fixtures already, and still we wait for news from anyone in authority that they are ok with the present situation,unlike a fair amount of the fan base, still we don't actually have too many concerns as fan base do we?.All good to have boring ponderous possession based error strewn passing in suicidal areas,and no plan b to address the need for improvement when we are loosing. Sunday should be fun.............................

[StrangelyBrown]

20 minutes ago, Roo1976 said:

What hes still here..........................and we've had the relatively easy fixtures already, and still we wait for news from anyone in authority that they are ok with the present situation,unlike a fair amount of the fan base, still we don't actually have too many concerns as fan base do we?.All good to have boring ponderous possession based error strewn passing in suicidal areas,and no plan b to address the need for improvement when we are loosing. Sunday should be fun.............................

SRs plan seems to be to double down on failure with the hope that double failure breeds success. It's a bit like Jack Stephens getting 2 yellow cards... as my son pointed out to me tonight, contrary to popular opinion in this scenario, two wrongs do actually make a right!

[Toussaint]

7 hours ago, Roo1976 said:

What hes still here..........................and we've had the relatively easy fixtures already, and still we wait for news from anyone in authority that they are ok with the present situation,unlike a fair amount of the fan base, still we don't actually have too many concerns as fan base do we?.All good to have boring ponderous possession based error strewn passing in suicidal areas,and no plan b to address the need for improvement when we are loosing. Sunday should be fun.............................

If you are waiting for “news from authority” I think you will have a very long wait. This mob have absolutely no respect, possibly even contempt, for the lifelong supporters of the club. I cannot recall a period in our history with so little communication from the club. This is even more concerning given the recent decline of our club. When I say recent, I don’t just mean this season, we have been circling the drain since SR took control. 

[Killers Knee]

Martin still on the premises?  When does Lee Carsley take over?

[badgerx16]

Quote

 

10 hours ago, Roo1976 said:

What hes still here..........................and we've had the relatively easy fixtures already............

"There are no easy fixtures in the Premier League"........well there are 2, but they are against a team we don't get to play.

[gio1saints]

@Tommy Mulgrew

Tried to send you this by message but you cannot accept messages so here is my reply: 

You’ve got a very valid point for sure. I do not disagree with your conclusion ~ that it’s madness, essentially. That we probably got a better chance of staying up changing the style of play ( which means change the manager basically). And you guess right- I’m not so fussed if (when) we do ultimately go down playing this way - as long as we show progress and development that is. 

My view is that Saints players and Manager are currently not good enough to try what is fairly transparently to copy Man City. We currently get there in some metrics ~ but we also currently fail badly in the most important ones. Hence bottom of the league. I’d like to think we will improve as we learn hard lessons-  but only if we stick to the principles. If we go all flip flop it will be worse- imo. Yes it means that “brave” word that everyone hates needs come out. But I guess “ madness” is as good a synonym for what’s going on in its place instead👍
 

Im glad you understand that I genuinely hope for Saints one day to break through and end this almost non stop struggle we have been in throughout our entire existence just to survive at top table. And that - maybe- madness if that’s how best to describe it- has as good a chance as any to do so. I am probably wrong I am probably too idealistic and I am probably too stubborn for holding onto the belief that it can be done and we are NOT doomed to follow the same just about survive occasionally drop occasionally make a final cycles that Saints have played out over the five Decades plus I’ve been following. 
 

If I post stuff like the above on the forum I will inevitably elicit real visceral and personal hatred which is frightening in its intensity sometimes - and so If you are inviting me to my own stoning here I am.  
 

Saintly regards, 

Gio

[miserableoldgit]

Sound familiar??

[Holmes_and_Watson]

32 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

@Tommy Mulgrew

Tried to send you this by message but you cannot accept messages so here is my reply: 

You’ve got a very valid point for sure. I do not disagree with your conclusion ~ that it’s madness, essentially. That we probably got a better chance of staying up changing the style of play ( which means change the manager basically). And you guess right- I’m not so fussed if (when) we do ultimately go down playing this way - as long as we show progress and development that is. 

My view is that Saints players and Manager are currently not good enough to try what is fairly transparently to copy Man City. We currently get there in some metrics ~ but we also currently fail badly in the most important ones. Hence bottom of the league. I’d like to think we will improve as we learn hard lessons-  but only if we stick to the principles. If we go all flip flop it will be worse- imo. Yes it means that “brave” word that everyone hates needs come out. But I guess “ madness” is as good a synonym for what’s going on in its place instead👍
 

Im glad you understand that I genuinely hope for Saints one day to break through and end this almost non stop struggle we have been in throughout our entire existence just to survive at top table. And that - maybe- madness if that’s how best to describe it- has as good a chance as any to do so. I am probably wrong I am probably too idealistic and I am probably too stubborn for holding onto the belief that it can be done and we are NOT doomed to follow the same just about survive occasionally drop occasionally make a final cycles that Saints have played out over the five Decades plus I’ve been following. 
 

If I post stuff like the above on the forum I will inevitably elicit real visceral and personal hatred which is frightening in its intensity sometimes - and so If you are inviting me to my own stoning here I am.  
 

Saintly regards, 

Gio

You stay strong Gio.

The forum is at it's best with different views.

It can take a little while, but inevitably others post supporting every view.

#daretodream

[Holmes_and_Watson]

3 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

Sound familiar??

Pros

No plan B

Higher risk

Stubble

Cons

No pullover

Hairstyle could be better

Lack of previous failure

At a high profile club, so not left field enough.

Not hugging and having a laugh with player in photo

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

@Tommy Mulgrew

Tried to send you this by message but you cannot accept messages so here is my reply: 

You’ve got a very valid point for sure. I do not disagree with your conclusion ~ that it’s madness, essentially. That we probably got a better chance of staying up changing the style of play ( which means change the manager basically). And you guess right- I’m not so fussed if (when) we do ultimately go down playing this way - as long as we show progress and development that is. 

My view is that Saints players and Manager are currently not good enough to try what is fairly transparently to copy Man City. We currently get there in some metrics ~ but we also currently fail badly in the most important ones. Hence bottom of the league. I’d like to think we will improve as we learn hard lessons-  but only if we stick to the principles. If we go all flip flop it will be worse- imo. Yes it means that “brave” word that everyone hates needs come out. But I guess “ madness” is as good a synonym for what’s going on in its place instead👍
 

Im glad you understand that I genuinely hope for Saints one day to break through and end this almost non stop struggle we have been in throughout our entire existence just to survive at top table. And that - maybe- madness if that’s how best to describe it- has as good a chance as any to do so. I am probably wrong I am probably too idealistic and I am probably too stubborn for holding onto the belief that it can be done and we are NOT doomed to follow the same just about survive occasionally drop occasionally make a final cycles that Saints have played out over the five Decades plus I’ve been following. 
 

If I post stuff like the above on the forum I will inevitably elicit real visceral and personal hatred which is frightening in its intensity sometimes - and so If you are inviting me to my own stoning here I am.  
 

Saintly regards, 

Gio

The only way a club makes any kind of breakthrough is a massive injection of cash into it. Even then, its no guarantee of success. Take a look at Newcastle, possibly the richest club in world football, yet struggling to break into the top four let alone challenge for the title. What is wrong with being a club that is in the Premier League but isn't challenging for titles? I would rather us be an established club finishing anywhere between 10-17 every season than having to endure season after season in the Championship. We got extremely lucky going up last season, we might not be so fortunate in other seasons. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

7 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

The only way a club makes any kind of breakthrough is a massive injection of cash into it. Even then, its no guarantee of success. Take a look at Newcastle, possibly the richest club in world football, yet struggling to break into the top four let alone challenge for the title

That ship has sailed. Even a large injection of cash won’t cut it. As Newcastle are finding out, PSR has baked in the status quo. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

That ship has sailed. Even a large injection of cash won’t cut it. As Newcastle are finding out, PSR has baked in the status quo. 

Agreed. Which is why I don't harbour any ambitions above just staying in the PL. 

[Badger]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

If I post stuff like the above on the forum I will inevitably elicit real visceral and personal hatred which is frightening in its intensity sometimes - and so If you are inviting me to my own stoning here I am.  
 

Saintly regards, 

Gio

Clearly a thought out and articulate response Gio but sorry can’t resist: 

 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, gio1saints said:

 

You’ve got a very valid point for sure. I do not disagree with your conclusion ~ that it’s madness, essentially. That we probably got a better chance of staying up changing the style of play ( which means change the manager basically). And you guess right- I’m not so fussed if (when) we do ultimately go down playing this way - as long as we show progress and development that is. 

Quantify what 'progress' should look like?

Not sure you can improve on 70%+ possession, so we're already perfect by that matrix.  Team bonding and goodwill towards the manager is through the roof so that can't be improved.  We are already the bravest team in the world, so no improvement possible there.  

What metrics can be improved - it's not points, goals or league position because they are irrelevant?

[Mr X]

Think we can all agree Sports Republic are shit owners that are destroying us and our club is just a tick box on their portfolio nothing more! It's clear they are not footballing people in the traditional sense they are experimental and the experiment is losing everything as long as we are winning possession statistics!

[Gloucester Saint]

17 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Think we can all agree Sports Republic are shit owners that are destroying us and our club is just a tick box on their portfolio nothing more! It's clear they are not footballing people in the traditional sense they are experimental and the experiment is losing everything as long as we are winning possession statistics!

We were the vehicle - but if you burn the show-home down, the rest of the development won’t be worth much. But they’re aren’t up to much at business either so this hasn’t dawned on them and Solak seems totally unaware that Ankerson and Martin are leading them back down the leagues in their vanity bullshit.

Just leave them to it and when somebody buys the carcass in League one or two maybe we’ll take an interest again. None of the St Mary’s tourists will say a word until it’s far too late and we are 10 points adrift in the Championship drop zone in two years time, 

Edited 23 November, 2024 by Gloucester Saint

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

The only way a club makes any kind of breakthrough is a massive injection of cash into it. Even then, its no guarantee of success. Take a look at Newcastle, possibly the richest club in world football, yet struggling to break into the top four let alone challenge for the title. What is wrong with being a club that is in the Premier League but isn't challenging for titles? I would rather us be an established club finishing anywhere between 10-17 every season than having to endure season after season in the Championship. We got extremely lucky going up last season, we might not be so fortunate in other seasons. 

Personally I think that the Championship is a better place than the EPL for a host of different reasons, but each to their own. We also now have a much stronger squad Championship wise and depending on who leaves or not, will be strong contenders to come back up again.

[Gloucester Saint]

Just now, sadoldgit said:

Personally I think that the Championship is a better place than the EPL for a host of different reasons, but each to their own. We also now have a much stronger squad Championship wise and depending on who leaves or not, will be strong contenders to come back up again.

As long as the manager is changed well before then. I’d make us relegation favourites with Russell Martin in charge. He’s making Ian Branfoot look like Brian Clough. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Personally I think that the Championship is a better place than the EPL for a host of different reasons, but each to their own. We also now have a much stronger squad Championship wise and depending on who leaves or not, will be strong contenders to come back up again.

Noddy attitude personified. 

[Wsaint]

34 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

We were the vehicle - but if you burn the show-home down, the rest of the development won’t be worth much. But they’re aren’t up to much at business either so this hasn’t dawned on them and Solak seems totally unaware that Ankerson and Martin are leading them back down the leagues in their vanity bullshit.

Just leave them to it and when somebody buys the carcass in League one or two maybe we’ll take an interest again. None of the St Mary’s tourists will say a word until it’s far too late and we are 10 points adrift in the Championship drop zone in two years time, 

Happy Saturday to you too buddy.

[saints-til-i-die]

Sport Republic (Dragon) has invested a lot. If it wasn’t for him, I dread to think how much worse things could be. He deserves respect. The other people running the show… jury’s out 

[Oldandtired]

3 hours ago, gio1saints said:

@Tommy Mulgrew

Tried to send you this by message but you cannot accept messages so here is my reply: 

You’ve got a very valid point for sure. I do not disagree with your conclusion ~ that it’s madness, essentially. That we probably got a better chance of staying up changing the style of play ( which means change the manager basically). And you guess right- I’m not so fussed if (when) we do ultimately go down playing this way - as long as we show progress and development that is. 

My view is that Saints players and Manager are currently not good enough to try what is fairly transparently to copy Man City. We currently get there in some metrics ~ but we also currently fail badly in the most important ones. Hence bottom of the league. I’d like to think we will improve as we learn hard lessons-  but only if we stick to the principles. If we go all flip flop it will be worse- imo. Yes it means that “brave” word that everyone hates needs come out. But I guess “ madness” is as good a synonym for what’s going on in its place instead👍
 

Im glad you understand that I genuinely hope for Saints one day to break through and end this almost non stop struggle we have been in throughout our entire existence just to survive at top table. And that - maybe- madness if that’s how best to describe it- has as good a chance as any to do so. I am probably wrong I am probably too idealistic and I am probably too stubborn for holding onto the belief that it can be done and we are NOT doomed to follow the same just about survive occasionally drop occasionally make a final cycles that Saints have played out over the five Decades plus I’ve been following. 
 

If I post stuff like the above on the forum I will inevitably elicit real visceral and personal hatred which is frightening in its intensity sometimes - and so If you are inviting me to my own stoning here I am.  
 

Saintly regards, 

Gio

But how do you quantify progress and development in our case? As has been pointed out possession statistics are ok, even if in my opinion most of that possession is meaningless as it leads to nothing. So more goals, more points, only losing by the odd goal rather than two or three or more? Or, as most including me seem to want, a change in playing style perhaps leading to a more attack minded formula leading to more goal attempts?

I’m intrigued as to how you think we can progress and develop when the manager is adamant he will not change our style of play. This style is not working and as has been painfully obvious on numerous occasions this season is so easy to play against. If you stay in the same place that is not progress or development, that is stagnation. So given the manager’s unwillingness to adapt or change how can we progress with our current style of play?

And an afterthought, I’m not convinced that it will go so well for us in the Chanpionship next season when the almost inevitable happens and we go down and the unthinkable happens and RM is still the manager. We were starting to get found out at the end of last season before winning the lottery, unfortunately no reason to think that will change next time.

edit…won’t go so well in the Championship either as well as the Chanpionship…

Edited 23 November, 2024 by Oldandtired

[Colinjb]

3 hours ago, gio1saints said:

My view is that Saints players and Manager are currently not good enough to try what is fairly transparently to copy Man City. We currently get there in some metrics ~ but we also currently fail badly in the most important ones. Hence bottom of the league. I’d like to think we will improve as we learn hard lessons-  but only if we stick to the principles. If we go all flip flop it will be worse- imo. Yes it means that “brave” word that everyone hates needs come out. But I guess “ madness” is as good a synonym for what’s going on in its place instead👍

The players are not good enough, so would need to be replaced with better ones who can play in that way.

So why continue to coach players who are not good enough to a system they are not capable of? 

It's not brave, it is just foolish.

[david in sweden]

1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

The only way a club makes any kind of breakthrough is a massive injection of cash into it. Even then, its no guarantee of success. Take a look at Newcastle, possibly the richest club in world football, yet struggling to break into the top four let alone challenge for the title. What is wrong with being a club that is in the Premier League but isn't challenging for titles? I would rather us be an established club finishing anywhere between 10-17 every season than having to endure season after season in the Championship. We got extremely lucky going up last season, we might not be so fortunate in other seasons. 

we had a massive cash injection of £100 million in the summer (well massive by our standards), but it doesn't seem to have come to fruition yet.

Ironically some of the best performances we've seen so far have come from players who cost .....next to nothing. 

 

Part of the problem is always bringing in players who have shown up well in their former clubs.....and then playing them in another role, and

in a position for which they are unfamiliar, and then we wonder why they haven't produced the goods.    No guesses for the end result. 

Historically the majority of our "big transfers"  fees have produced little or nothing positive for the team and been more of a hindrance than a help.

  

Apparently, Onuachu seems to have scored a lot of goals (elsewhere) - from receiving crosses in from the wings.........(but none for us).

whereas ....Sulemana has shown that he is a good winger with pace.... but rarely gets the chance to show off his skill ....as a winger .

 

Wait a minute Russell......possibly there's a solution there somewhere... perhaps something we may have overlooked?........or? 

 

[Wade Garrett]

Our style of play is fucking ridiculous.  We are far too slow, predictable and easy to play against.  It is also boring as shit too watch.

To stick with it is absolute madness.  To want to stick with it is a point of view that I just can’t comprehend.  

[Galway saint]

51 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

we had a massive cash injection of £100 million in the summer (well massive by our standards), but it doesn't seem to have come to fruition yet.

Ironically some of the best performances we've seen so far have come from players who cost .....next to nothing. 

 

Part of the problem is always bringing in players who have shown up well in their former clubs.....and then playing them in another role, and

in a position for which they are unfamiliar, and then we wonder why they haven't produced the goods.    No guesses for the end result. 

Historically the majority of our "big transfers"  fees have produced little or nothing positive for the team and been more of a hindrance than a help.

  

Apparently, Onuachu seems to have scored a lot of goals (elsewhere) - from receiving crosses in from the wings.........(but none for us).

whereas ....Sulemana has shown that he is a good winger with pace.... but rarely gets the chance to show off his skill ....as a winger .

 

Wait a minute Russell......possibly there's a solution there somewhere... perhaps something we may have overlooked?........or? 

 

sulemana has had a lot of opportunities and has generally squandered them save for the liverpool game two seasons ago. he’s been a total waste of money, along with the likes of larios, edozie, bazanu, charles, orsic etc

I agree on TP however and given our dire goals scored beggars belief he hasn’t played more 

 

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

Anyone else just really excited for game week 12 in the English premier soccerball league? The season is nearly 1/3 through and we take on Liverpool from Merseyside tomorrow in an epic tie.

We get to see Mo Salah play live and Virgil Van Dijk return to where Klopp spotted his talent to turn him into the the elite defensive line back he is today. Cannot wait to hear those great Liverpool fans sing their “youll never walk alone” anthem round our stadium. Let’s hope it’s a good fight from us and we can achieve our goal of more possession than the mighty reds! 
 

LETS GO SOUTHAMPTON SAINTS!!!

 

[BarberSaint]

I've been thinking about the German gegenpress. The aim was to win the ball back quickly, close to the opponents' goal, before they could set up or defend there'd be a chance on goal.  

 

That's what Russball is: inverted gegenpress: keep it close to your goal to help the opposition not have to run, keep the ball for ages going nowhere,  then give it up to them to have a chance. Perhaps we could re-name it "Christmas Giveaway" for December? 

[Saint Fan CaM]

10 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Our style of play is fucking ridiculous.  We are far too slow, predictable and easy to play against.  It is also boring as shit too watch.

To stick with it is absolute madness.  To want to stick with it is a point of view that I just can’t comprehend.  

Well said. The issue is not about passing out from the back - most teams do that. It’s about the speed in which we transition from the two CB’s given that often the full-backs are ahead of the CB’s waiting to receive the ball, so if there’s a turn over in the next phase into midfield we get caught napping and the speed/skill in which many teams are able to capitalise ends in a goal. This is exacerbated even more if we’re behind because Russ expects the team to calm the game down and attempt even more possession. Rinse repeat. And of course the speed that we transition out of defence is linked with the number of times we get the ball into a position that allows a shot through fewer than 11 opposition players - hence the lack of shooting opportunities.

[Oldandtired]

4 minutes ago, BarberSaint said:

I've been thinking about the German gegenpress. The aim was to win the ball back quickly, close to the opponents' goal, before they could set up or defend there'd be a chance on goal.  

 

That's what Russball is: inverted gegenpress: keep it close to your goal to help the opposition not have to run, keep the ball for ages going nowhere,  then give it up to them to have a chance. Perhaps we could re-name it "Christmas Giveaway" for December? 

I prefer Russballsup.

[Tommy Mulgrew]

3 hours ago, gio1saints said:

@Tommy Mulgrew

Tried to send you this by message but you cannot accept messages so here is my reply: 

You’ve got a very valid point for sure. I do not disagree with your conclusion ~ that it’s madness, essentially. That we probably got a better chance of staying up changing the style of play ( which means change the manager basically). And you guess right- I’m not so fussed if (when) we do ultimately go down playing this way - as long as we show progress and development that is. 

My view is that Saints players and Manager are currently not good enough to try what is fairly transparently to copy Man City. We currently get there in some metrics ~ but we also currently fail badly in the most important ones. Hence bottom of the league. I’d like to think we will improve as we learn hard lessons-  but only if we stick to the principles. If we go all flip flop it will be worse- imo. Yes it means that “brave” word that everyone hates needs come out. But I guess “ madness” is as good a synonym for what’s going on in its place instead👍
 

Im glad you understand that I genuinely hope for Saints one day to break through and end this almost non stop struggle we have been in throughout our entire existence just to survive at top table. And that - maybe- madness if that’s how best to describe it- has as good a chance as any to do so. I am probably wrong I am probably too idealistic and I am probably too stubborn for holding onto the belief that it can be done and we are NOT doomed to follow the same just about survive occasionally drop occasionally make a final cycles that Saints have played out over the five Decades plus I’ve been following. 
 

If I post stuff like the above on the forum I will inevitably elicit real visceral and personal hatred which is frightening in its intensity sometimes - and so If you are inviting me to my own stoning here I am.  
 

Saintly regards, 

Gio

Thank you for responding, gio.  It seems to me that you essentially agree with those who do not share your, I would say “blind”, optimism.  I asked you to explain why you believe in your optimism that playing in the way Martin wants us to play will succeed in the EPL but I think you have not even tried to do that but have instead merely reiterated your belief.  My conclusion is that you are unable to justify your belief and that that belief is wrong.  And that, by agreeing with those who disagree with you, you know that already and you are just stubbornly sticking to your point of view.

As for your stoning point, my intention was to see the justification for your belief and was not to bring down scorn and hatred upon you.  I hope that your critics have got their ire out of the way now and that they are aware of your sensitivity to some of their more extreme posts.

BTW, a more flexible approach by our manager to our way of playing does not necessarily mean a change of manager but most certainly does if the present manager refuses to even adopt the flexibility that he adopted at the end of last season.  Given the possibility of Martin staying here for the rest of this season, and perhaps even beyond, I expect many who post on here would welcome a less extreme and  a less ever-present version of Russball - RussoRalphball, if you like.

[Saint Fan CaM]

4 hours ago, gio1saints said:

@Tommy Mulgrew

Tried to send you this by message but you cannot accept messages so here is my reply: 

You’ve got a very valid point for sure. I do not disagree with your conclusion ~ that it’s madness, essentially. That we probably got a better chance of staying up changing the style of play ( which means change the manager basically). And you guess right- I’m not so fussed if (when) we do ultimately go down playing this way - as long as we show progress and development that is. 

My view is that Saints players and Manager are currently not good enough to try what is fairly transparently to copy Man City. We currently get there in some metrics ~ but we also currently fail badly in the most important ones. Hence bottom of the league. I’d like to think we will improve as we learn hard lessons-  but only if we stick to the principles. If we go all flip flop it will be worse- imo. Yes it means that “brave” word that everyone hates needs come out. But I guess “ madness” is as good a synonym for what’s going on in its place instead👍
 

Im glad you understand that I genuinely hope for Saints one day to break through and end this almost non stop struggle we have been in throughout our entire existence just to survive at top table. And that - maybe- madness if that’s how best to describe it- has as good a chance as any to do so. I am probably wrong I am probably too idealistic and I am probably too stubborn for holding onto the belief that it can be done and we are NOT doomed to follow the same just about survive occasionally drop occasionally make a final cycles that Saints have played out over the five Decades plus I’ve been following. 
 

If I post stuff like the above on the forum I will inevitably elicit real visceral and personal hatred which is frightening in its intensity sometimes - and so If you are inviting me to my own stoning here I am.  
 

Saintly regards, 

Gio

Your optimism and indeed resolute defence of Russball is to be commended, however it seems your defence stands on the principle of seeing improvements. I’m not seeing any traction in improvement and that’s because there’s little or no sustained change to how we play, so I’m not sure how you gain satisfaction as you suggest. Of course it’s entirely possible that somehow things will click, but the evidence of many months tends to suggest otherwise. If it’s any consolation most doubters will be delighted if your faith is shown to be ultimately justified.

[Jack]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

Our style of play is fucking ridiculous.  We are far too slow, predictable and easy to play against.  It is also boring as shit too watch.

To stick with it is absolute madness.  To want to stick with it is a point of view that I just can’t comprehend.  

Exactly. Russ fans will say that our squad isn’t up to it and we overachieved by getting promoted. Even if that is the case (I don’t think it is), I’d want to see us at least have a go at competing after our fortunate promotion, rather than committing to a shit approach that’ll have us relegated again before my Xmas tree is up. 

[Baz Fl]

There is a fairly reasonable chance we will have less than 10 points come January. If that comes about do you think RM will hold his hand up and admit failure? Do you think SR will change their position on how the team should play?  Will we change the type of player we recruit? Just wondering when and what will change if our situation and results don’t improve. I keep hoping results will come and the grand plan proved to be successful but not confident. 

[Harry_SFC]

1 hour ago, Jack said:

Exactly. Russ fans will say that our squad isn’t up to it and we overachieved by getting promoted. Even if that is the case (I don’t think it is), I’d want to see us at least have a go at competing after our fortunate promotion, rather than committing to a shit approach that’ll have us relegated again before my Xmas tree is up. 

It'll be interesting to see how season ticket sales go next season if we are as good as down by Xmas and RM is still in charge next season. 

[aintforever]

5 minutes ago, Baz Fl said:

There is a fairly reasonable chance we will have less than 10 points come January. If that comes about do you think RM will hold his hand up and admit failure? Do you think SR will change their position on how the team should play?  Will we change the type of player we recruit? Just wondering when and what will change if our situation and results don’t improve. I keep hoping results will come and the grand plan proved to be successful but not confident. 

Think we are already in ‘planning for next season’s promotion’ stage now, don’t have a hope in hell of staying up regardless of manager.

 

[Challenger]

2 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

It'll be interesting to see how season ticket sales go next season if we are as good as down by Xmas and RM is still in charge next season. 

Vote with your feet, the useless fuckers might get the message then.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

We've never been bottom of the Premier League at Christmas. Another one for Martin to tick off. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

It’s untenable that Lego head remains after relegation. Maybe he may get a shot if  RussBall suddenly clicks into gear around Jan but we run out of time and go down after putting up a great fight second half of the season. If we go down with this boring, soul destroying fucking shite football, he’ll get deservedly hounded out. If it wasn’t for our high % of nods we’d be at that stage already. His football is as bad as Jones’ was every day of the fuck8ng week. 

[derry]

The one thread that is constant in our play is the average slowness of our possession and the lack of pressure on the opposition because they are able to defend in numbers.

The only way there can be improvement is for the tempo to be increased, transition quickly and break the opponents defensive lines. Does anybody in their right mind think for one second Martin will do that. We could wait for ever to see this present style improve into a workable system at this level. 

With Wolves winning again we are being cut adrift slowly but surely.

[SaintsBarry74]

Man City down 2 nil against Spurs. They’ve really looked shit since Pep said he’ll learn from Martin.

[pimpin4rizeal]

Honestly from watching martins press conferences you wouldn’t think there’s any problems in the club at all .. talk about some false confidence ..he seems to ignore the fact we have lost 9 games .. acting like he can’t wait to get stuck into Liverpool and and our December fixture list 😂..

unfortunately his plan seems to still be as long as we are brave and stick to our principles we will be fine 

poor old Jones seemed to get it in the neck every interview whilst Martin looks totally happy and chilling 

Edited 23 November, 2024 by pimpin4rizeal

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Think we are already in ‘planning for next season’s promotion’ stage now, don’t have a hope in hell of staying up regardless of manager.

 

Won't happen.

[aintforever]

6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Won't happen.

How can you possibly say that when you don’t have a clue who will be managing us or what the squad will look like.

We have a squad packed with decent championship players, we will be well placed to bounce straight back.

[badgerx16]

11 minutes ago, aintforever said:

How can you possibly say that when you don’t have a clue who will be managing us or what the squad will look like.

We have a squad packed with decent championship players, we will be well placed to bounce straight back.

IMO we will not, and I have outlined my reasons before on the forum. We will go down as the worst of the three relegated sides, by quite a stretch,  even more so than we were 2 seasons ago, and the other 2 that come down with us will be short odds favourites for the top 2 spots, disregarding other 'big' sides who also have PL ambitions - Leeds, Middleborough, Norwish, etc, ( depending on who makes it up this season ), who we will be competing with for the playoffs. I think we will have more or less a re-run of 2 seasons ago, but will this time fall short. Whilst I was delighted that we won at Wembley, I think overall Leeds were a little unlucky.

If Russ remains at Saints then this scenario only becomes all the more likely.

Edited 23 November, 2024 by badgerx16

[bugenhagen]

53 minutes ago, derry said:

The one thread that is constant in our play is the average slowness of our possession and the lack of pressure on the opposition because they are able to defend in numbers.

The only way there can be improvement is for the tempo to be increased, transition quickly and break the opponents defensive lines. Does anybody in their right mind think for one second Martin will do that. We could wait for ever to see this present style improve into a workable system at this level. 

With Wolves winning again we are being cut adrift slowly but surely.

I'll have a go here and claim that I am in my right mind 😉

I actually think Martin wants better tempo and quicker transition, but the problem is a combination of the players we have not being good enough and fit enough, and Martin not being up to the task to coach it in to them at this level.

So my answer is yes, I think Martin wants to do that, but no, I don't think he will be able to achieve it.

[Mr X]

2 hours ago, Baz Fl said:

There is a fairly reasonable chance we will have less than 10 points come January. If that comes about do you think RM will hold his hand up and admit failure? Do you think SR will change their position on how the team should play?  Will we change the type of player we recruit? Just wondering when and what will change if our situation and results don’t improve. I keep hoping results will come and the grand plan proved to be successful but not confident. 

RM certainly won't admit failure he thinks football isn't always about winning and getting points in the board, he will trot out the same brave lines on repeat we are getting there heading in the right direction! If the right direction is back to the championship then he's absolutely right! Sport Republic are in a tricky situation and won't want to pull the trigger and admit they are totally clueless when appointing managers this being the third disaster.... What makes it worse is this could so easily have been avoided.... Russell Martin should only be a championship manager with a bonus for promotion he was always going to be awful in the premier league with an unachievable style! Then in their wiseness they give him a new contract when they haven't even seen any proof whatsoever that he can make the step up

Edited 23 November, 2024 by Mr X