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Russell Martin

LegalEagle

By LegalEagle
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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 10:35, SambaMaverick said:

Ehh. The penalty/red was pretty stonewall, but we had a good case up the other end. The referee was bad, but no other decision had that much bearing on the goals.

Martin clearly put a decent game plan in place to get us 2-0 up and well in control, nullifying their threats. But time and again he has shown that he can't effectively change things in game. He can't react well enough, probably because he is still a very young manager.

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We should have had a penalty to go 3-1 up for sure, that's what I mean.

Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 10:39, benali-shorts said:

I think RM being out-thought in-game is one major issue - we've had decent spells in games (Newcastle pre-their red card; Ipswich (sort of); Leics for 60 mins; Utd for 30 mins). But once the tide has turned, RM hasn't shown any ability to react - or even better, to pre-empt it by adjusting our approach. 

The refereeing was appalling on Saturday. The squad is poor. The coach is not showing sufficient ability to manage a game for 90 minutes. We can only do something about one of those things. To do nothing would be remarkably stupid. 

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Don't disagree with anything you've written there.

  • Like 3
Toussaint

Toussaint

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 10:35, SambaMaverick said:

Ehh. The penalty/red was pretty stonewall, but we had a good case up the other end. The referee was bad, but no other decision had that much bearing on the goals.

Martin clearly put a decent game plan in place to get us 2-0 up and well in control, nullifying their threats. But time and again he has shown that he can't effectively change things in game. He can't react well enough, probably because he is still a very young manager.

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He is a very young manager, and that is the biggest mitigating factor for his continuing errors. But that makes it even harder to understand the decision to give him so much apparent autonomy over the footballing side of the business.

  • Like 2
Graffito

Graffito

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 09:42, franniesTache said:

I find it kind of amazing people can miss a joke so badly but i guess football is a serious business 🤣

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Didn’t get any laughs so not exactly a belter then. Or maybe you’re making it up as you go along. I suggest you stick to moaning about football chants, that’s a serious business.

  • Haha 1
Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 11:17, Toussaint said:

He is a very young manager, and that is the biggest mitigating factor for his continuing errors. But that makes it even harder to understand the decision to give him so much apparent autonomy over the footballing side of the business.

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He’s been a manager for 5 years and played a lot of Premier League football.  Hardly a novice.

  • Like 2
saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 12:13, OttawaSaint said:

Still here?

Give me strength!

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Unfortunately the idiots running the club decided it would be a good idea to give him a 3 year contract before a ball had been kicked this season. We are being run by the biggest bunch of amateurs with zero clue between them when it comes to running a football club - however, they are the best when it comes to ruining a football club. Semmens has much to answer for.

  • Like 3
Lee On Solent Saint

Lee On Solent Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 12:30, Oldandtired said:

Obviously going to wait until survival is a mathematical impossibility (before Christmas at this rate) then they’ll big him up as the person to lead us out of the Championship.

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If he is still here after relegating us, SR are even bigger twats than I had them down for. The guy is splitting the fan base. By the end of the season, St Marys will be full of away fans only. 

  • Like 1
Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 21/10/2024 at 11:17, Toussaint said:

He is a very young manager, and that is the biggest mitigating factor for his continuing errors. 

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He’s managed nearly 250 senior games at professional level, how much more experience does he need?
 

To put it in perspective the bloke that out coached him sat has 223 under his belt. The bloke he did actually manage to get a point off this season has managed 140. 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
  • Like 2
lambtiss

lambtiss

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 12:19, Farmer Saint said:

TBF getting humped by Man City is not the straw that will break the camel's back.

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It isn't, but a new manager would probably want to avoid this match as his first fixture. Hence, appointment after the City match

BARCELONASAINT

BARCELONASAINT

Posted
Posted

I don't know if its an age thing or what. I used to get so angry and the weekend would be absolutely ruined if Saints lost. However now i'm mildly upset if we lose just like Saturday. 30 minutes after the final whistle i was over it. Maybe Saints have just worn me down over the years.

I cannot get worked up over whether RM gets sacked or not!

  • Like 2
Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 12:44, lambtiss said:

It isn't, but a new manager would probably want to avoid this match as his first fixture. Hence, appointment after the City match

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Absolutely they would. Appointment will happen once we have someone that's happy and has accepted - this is where we'll have the issue 😬

  • Like 1
Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 12:48, BARCELONASAINT said:

I don't know if its an age thing or what. I used to get so angry and the weekend would be absolutely ruined if Saints lost. However now i'm mildly upset if we lose just like Saturday. 30 minutes after the final whistle i was over it. Maybe Saints have just worn me down over the years.

I cannot get worked up over whether RM gets sacked or not!

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For me it's more the Premier League - I cared more in the Championship.

  • Like 1
Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 09:36, chuz said:

This is exactly what I was told....it was a clause in the first contract that promotion automatically triggered a second contract.  

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If that’s true then SR were morons for agreeing to such a lunatic contract when they hired him. It’s not like they were hiring a hotshot like Emery. He was a Championship nonentity. All they had to do was include a one time bonus for promotion, similar to the bonus clause to Hughes for keeping us up. 

  • Like 5
Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 12:39, Lee On Solent Saint said:

If he is still here after relegating us, SR are even bigger twats than I had them down for. The guy is splitting the fan base. By the end of the season, St Marys will be full of away fans only. 

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Actually I’d say he is uniting the fan base. Almost all of us are united in wanting him sacked. 

  • Like 3
Lee On Solent Saint

Lee On Solent Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 13:18, Dark Munster said:

Actually I’d say he is uniting the fan base. Almost all of us are united in wanting him sacked. 

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On here for sure, not sure about the fans as a whole. Where I was sat on Saturday there wasn't too much hate directed at Martin. I think he was fortunate that the ref was so shite, it deflected the crowd reaction away from him.

  • Like 1
CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 13:24, BotleySaint said:

Depends by how many though. City could easily get 9 or 10 if they wanted.

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We desperately need to keep a lid on things on the first half. If we are five down or something mad then City have a record to break and can go for it.

As long as we can get to 80 minutes only three or four down then they probably will ease up and play the game out. They aren't going to kill themselves to break a record but they will given half a chance.

  • Like 1
BotleySaint

BotleySaint

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 12:48, BARCELONASAINT said:

I don't know if its an age thing or what. I used to get so angry and the weekend would be absolutely ruined if Saints lost. However now i'm mildly upset if we lose just like Saturday. 30 minutes after the final whistle i was over it. Maybe Saints have just worn me down over the years.

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I think in recent years the team has given us very little to shout about. Years of mostly struggles under Ralph including two 9 nils. Two terrible managers to replace him.

Even winning promotion was a slog last year as we seemed to do it in the most painful way and were humiliated several times despite.

In the end you do become numb to it. Expect disappointment. Struggle to feel positive at being 2 nil up at half time. You cant invest your feelings into something that has let you down over and over again. So you've stopped.

However I also think getting older helps context. Sadly perhaps it becomes easier to think "it's just a game".

  • Like 3
The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 13:31, CB Fry said:

We desperately need to keep a lid on things on the first half. If we are five down or something mad then City have a record to break and can go for it.

As long as we can get to 80 minutes only three or four down then they probably will ease up and play the game out. They aren't going to kill themselves to break a record but they will given half a chance.

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I don't think they'll have to.

  • Sad 1
Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 13:22, Lee On Solent Saint said:

On here for sure, not sure about the fans as a whole. Where I was sat on Saturday there wasn't too much hate directed at Martin. I think he was fortunate that the ref was so shite, it deflected the crowd reaction away from him.

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Not hate for RM. Just wanting him sacked.

I don’t really want the crowd to vent their anger at RM. I wish they’d vent it at the board.  They are the ones who are responsible for this mess. 

  • Like 2
ally_uk

ally_uk

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 12:48, BARCELONASAINT said:

I don't know if its an age thing or what. I used to get so angry and the weekend would be absolutely ruined if Saints lost. However now i'm mildly upset if we lose just like Saturday. 30 minutes after the final whistle i was over it. Maybe Saints have just worn me down over the years.

I cannot get worked up over whether RM gets sacked or not!

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For me it's the whole Premier League it's a circus 🎪  

Corrupt to the core think about it ! The likes of Everton being docked points whilst City etc escape and are allowed to keep hoovering up and stockpiling talent.

How is it a level playing field it isn't?

Then you have the biased commentators / pundits  wanking each other off over the big clubs... 

" bloody ell Gary magnificent performance today wasn't it ! They were so dominant...." 

Well no shit they have spent 100 million on one player which is more than the whole cost of the oppositions squad and infrastructure 🤣🤣🤣

Then the Var and cheating 

I just find the whole league boring AF have felt this way a couple of seasons now it has massively lost appeal... 

 

 

  • Like 8
The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted

So, for season 2022-23:

Ralph got the gun on 7th November, a 1-4 home defeat to Newcastle in our 14th league game of the season being the straw that broke the camel's back.  We had avoided the bottom 3 all season (except after week 1) until after the Newcastle game when we dropped to 18th.  We had 12 points from 14 games at that point.

Jonesy was appointed on 10th November, saw the side lose at Liverpool, then didn't play again in the league until Boxing Day.  As we know he lost 7 out of 8 in the league, a rare win at Booodison Park providing his only points return.  3 points from 8 league games (plus a cup win against Man City).

Selles took over for the rest of the season and had 16 games in charge.  Lost 10 of those, won twice, drew 4.  10 points from 16 games.

SR have pulled the trigger 3 times before with underperforming managers.  One wonders how long until number 4 comes along.

Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 12:51, Farmer Saint said:

For me it's more the Premier League - I cared more in the Championship.

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I presume that is from expectation as I haven’t been miffed with the loses in this league as opposed to the championship. 
 

I thought we’d have a bit more fight but with the games played against the teams of various standard so far, it looks like records will be broken and RM’s career prospects as well after this gig is over if he stays in post this season. 

Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 12:44, lambtiss said:

It isn't, but a new manager would probably want to avoid this match as his first fixture. Hence, appointment after the City match

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Nathan started off saying how brave he was taking over for a first game he hadn't much time before. He started to discount it as the number of defeats crept up.

Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 14:47, Doctoroncall said:

I presume that is from expectation as I haven’t been miffed with the loses in this league as opposed to the championship. 
 

I thought we’d have a bit more fight but with the games played against the teams of various standard so far, it looks like records will be broken and RM’s career prospects as well after this gig is over if he stays in post this season. 

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If he's sacked he will easily get another job in the Championship - he's young and rated quite highly outside of here (stubborn but rated).

  • Like 1
Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 15:03, Doctoroncall said:

If he’s sacked now, probably, but a whole season of this?  Doubt it, too much scar tissue. 

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Unless he makes a better fist of it he won't be here all season anyway, so not a likely scenario. Either we improve or he is gone (and if our talks go well with our preferred target(s) that may well be irrelevant anyway). 

saintant

saintant

Posted
Posted

Over on The Ugly Inside they're saying Russ is safe because he's part of a 10 year plan and that comes direct from Dragan. If so it again proves the incompetence of our owners - I mean, who makes a 10 year plan for a football team these days unless it's the owners of a lower league team that have ambitions to reach the Premier League? You can't have a 10 year plan if you're already in the Premier League - maybe start with a survival plan and see where that goes. Still, might as well extend Russ boys contract to ten years and be done with it. Happy days.

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 15:16, saintant said:

Over on The Ugly Inside they're saying Russ is safe because he's part of a 10 year plan and that comes direct from Dragan. If so it again proves the incompetence of our owners - I mean, who makes a 10 year plan for a football team these days unless it's the owners of a lower league team that have ambitions to reach the Premier League? You can't have a 10 year plan if you're already in the Premier League - maybe start with a survival plan and see where that goes. Still, might as well extend Russ boys contract to ten years and be done with it. Happy days.

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A 10 year plan to reach the National League?

  • Like 1
  • Haha 4
SWLondon Saint

SWLondon Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 14:23, The Kraken said:

So, for season 2022-23:

Ralph got the gun on 7th November, a 1-4 home defeat to Newcastle in our 14th league game of the season being the straw that broke the camel's back.  We had avoided the bottom 3 all season (except after week 1) until after the Newcastle game when we dropped to 18th.  We had 12 points from 14 games at that point.

Jonesy was appointed on 10th November, saw the side lose at Liverpool, then didn't play again in the league until Boxing Day.  As we know he lost 7 out of 8 in the league, a rare win at Booodison Park providing his only points return.  3 points from 8 league games (plus a cup win against Man City).

Selles took over for the rest of the season and had 16 games in charge.  Lost 10 of those, won twice, drew 4.  10 points from 16 games.

SR have pulled the trigger 3 times before with underperforming managers.  One wonders how long until number 4 comes along.

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I always thought that if Ralph had stayed, we would have stayed up. Double his total, say 24 from 28 and we'd have needed 13+ from the last 10. Very doable. Instead we got the Beavis and Butthead show for the rest of the season.

In contrast to this season, it's actually hard to imagine any manager doing much worse than 1 point from 8 games, including several of the supposed easiest games of the season - Forest, Ipswich, Leicester at home.

  • Like 2
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 15:16, saintant said:

Over on The Ugly Inside they're saying Russ is safe because he's part of a 10 year plan and that comes direct from Dragan. If so it again proves the incompetence of our owners - I mean, who makes a 10 year plan for a football team these days unless it's the owners of a lower league team that have ambitions to reach the Premier League? You can't have a 10 year plan if you're already in the Premier League - maybe start with a survival plan and see where that goes. Still, might as well extend Russ boys contract to ten years and be done with it. Happy days.

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that's comforting to know. I remember is Cortese era we had a five year plan and because we got to the premier league in 3 we were a year ahead so relegation didn't matter when we started that season even worse than this one. We are 8 years ahead of plan here, all hail SR and the 10 year plan!

Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 14:57, Farmer Saint said:

If he's sacked he will easily get another job in the Championship - he's young and rated quite highly outside of here (stubborn but rated).

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  On 21/10/2024 at 15:03, Doctoroncall said:

If he’s sacked now, probably, but a whole season of this?  Doubt it, too much scar tissue. 

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  On 21/10/2024 at 15:11, Farmer Saint said:

Unless he makes a better fist of it he won't be here all season anyway, so not a likely scenario. Either we improve or he is gone (and if our talks go well with our preferred target(s) that may well be irrelevant anyway). 

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If the results continue like this, it's hard to see any manager surviving.

But that could have been said a number of games ago. The last International break, for example.

As noted, despite talks of projects and styles, they've dumped a number of them already.

So:-

Is their data showing them that if it wasn't for individual errors, we'd be a lot better off? Sort of a skewed Brighton approach, where you have to hold your nose and pretend there's not major issues in how they're set up to make those errors.

Does RM's contract come with clauses? He gets X number of games, or we pay out more. Or we pay less, but only after Y number of games. With everyone waiting for that, thinking we'd have got more points under any scenario.

SR's succession plan is waiting for another manager to agree terms. I'd be expecting a German/ Spanish/ Scandinavian manager with an outstanding record with an Under 10s team, who is renowned for getting the squad to weave baskets for the local area. So terms shouldn't be that hard. Except SR went for the cheaper Sellers option, having spent loads on getting Nathan. They may be in the same boat here.

SR are willing to take the hit of relegation. They'd be looking for some improvements to at least beat Derby's record. If that happens, they give RM next season to further clear out the squad and bounce back. With the obvious flaws of having massive financial impact, redundancies, PSR, and no guarantee of coming back up.

It's just taking Lallana longer to grow out the right length of facial hair and pick out a pullover?

  • Haha 1
Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
  On 21/10/2024 at 15:16, saintant said:

Over on The Ugly Inside they're saying Russ is safe because he's part of a 10 year plan and that comes direct from Dragan. If so it again proves the incompetence of our owners - I mean, who makes a 10 year plan for a football team these days unless it's the owners of a lower league team that have ambitions to reach the Premier League? You can't have a 10 year plan if you're already in the Premier League - maybe start with a survival plan and see where that goes. Still, might as well extend Russ boys contract to ten years and be done with it. Happy days.

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Since they took over with us in the PL, and we're in it now, what's the 10 year goal of this plan?

Since they've gone through various styles and recruitment strategies, it would appear to be a distant goal, than any methodical way of getting there.

We'll have heard loads of new owners saying that they want to be in the PL/ Championship in 5 years. The vast majority of them sell up before getting anywhere close.

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