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Russell Martin

LegalEagle

By LegalEagle
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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 14:01, Farmer Saint said:

Looks like Steve Cooper will be relieved of his job soon regardless of yesterday's win - I know he was very high on a lot of your lists before the season/at the end of last season - should we be looking at him when Martin gets sacked?

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Better achievement than Martin on promotion with a much tougher task.

Unquestionably better record in the Prem than Martin.

Fucking sneer away but Russell Martin isn't fit to lace his boots.

  • Like 18
notnowcato

notnowcato

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 12:03, Lee On Solent Saint said:

The only reason we throw points away in the last seconds of injury time is because tactially we aren't set up right. Defending set pieces, especially corners this season as been pathetic. The blame lies squarely with Martin when it comes to tactial set up. You have to be on the wind up if you think any differently.

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It’s like we only concede corners in injury time or everyone does their job for all corners except for those in injury time. 

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notnowcato

notnowcato

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 14:18, CB Fry said:

Better achievement than Martin on promotion with a much tougher task.

Unquestionably better record in the Prem than Martin.

Fucking sneer away but Russell Martin isn't fit to lace his boots.

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Haha can you imagine us lot putting up with Fatawa being on the bench. That was a questionable selection at best. 

  • Like 1
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Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 14:18, CB Fry said:

Better achievement than Martin on promotion with a much tougher task.

Unquestionably better record in the Prem than Martin.

Fucking sneer away but Russell Martin isn't fit to lace his boots.

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Swansea fans have strong opinions on that, and a quick look statistically its Cooper 45% WP Martin 36% WP when there. 

Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 20/10/2024 at 14:18, CB Fry said:

Better achievement than Martin on promotion with a much tougher task.

Unquestionably better record in the Prem than Martin.

Fucking sneer away but Russell Martin isn't fit to lace his boots.

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No sneering here, calm yourself - you really do get over-excited.

Edited by Farmer Saint
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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 12:11, Fabrice29 said:

You have to be on the wind up if you think that leaving 3 guys on the edge of the box in the last minute yesterday is because that is how the manager has set them up. 6 corners yesterday they had, don't remember that happening until the last one and it doesn't happen because Martin sees the first 5 and barks orders at them to leave them free. So yeah, I think differently. 

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Of course that’s down to the manager! It was exactly the same against Ipswich with different players in the team. Can you not see a pattern here? In all my years of playing and watching football I have never seen any team professional or amateur trying to defend corners this way.

  • Like 3
Osvaldorama

Osvaldorama

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 14:23, notnowcato said:

Not really. Unless you’re suggesting it was all part of a fucking master plan. 
 

Jesus wept. 

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Bringing on fast wingers to run at tired defenders is something a lot of managers actually do plan to do. 
 

I know as saints fans we barely get to witness any managerial plans. But other clubs do often make plans for how to beat the opposition. 
 

  • Like 4
Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 20/10/2024 at 15:12, Whitey Grandad said:

The two in the league made no difference.

This bollocks about the “biggest earning game” is just that. If it were true then where has all our money gone?

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It comes through TV rights, commercial revenue increases and position awards - what are you on about? Are you saying that you don't earn money for it? 

Have a read: https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/championship-play-off-final-how-much-premier-league-promotion-decider-worth/17nz5miq9ytix1wkm1w5q2kozd

Edited by Farmer Saint
  • Like 1
OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 15:00, Whitey Grandad said:

Of course that’s down to the manager! It was exactly the same against Ipswich with different players in the team. Can you not see a pattern here? In all my years of playing and watching football I have never seen any team professional or amateur trying to defend corners this way.

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Yes, it's really odd. Other teams don't do it because it doesn't work. When that last corner was taken every one of our players bar one was inside the 6 yard box (and the other was standing one yard outside). So the ball could be dribbled out to Ayew and he still had time to set himself up and take his shot. Absolute nonsense and frankly indefensible when exactly the same thing happened just a few games previously.

You've got to learn by mistakes and RM has shown time after time that he doesn't.

I can only guess that Potter and Moyes have turned us down because I'd be banging down their doors trying to persuade them to take us on.

 

  • Like 2
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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 14:26, CB Fry said:

Take me through Russell Martin's tactical masterplan.

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He countered the Fatawu substitution on 59 minutes by bringing on winger Ryan Fraser on 62 minutes. The tactic was really brilliant the fact it didn't work is down to the players not doing their jobs yet again.

  • Haha 8
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 15:12, Osvaldorama said:


Bringing on fast wingers to run at tired defenders is something a lot of managers actually do plan to do. 
 

I know as saints fans we barely get to witness any managerial plans. But other clubs do often make plans for how to beat the opposition. 
 

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As i said above Martin reacted by bringing on Frazer 3 minutes later. You could clearly see that putting on a smaller, slower winger at wing back to match up against their winger, push him back and therefore make him less effective was a genius tactic that barring getting skinned for the goal and sent off would have resulted in us seeing out the win if the player hadn't messed up

  • Like 3
lambtiss

lambtiss

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 15:44, Turkish said:

He countered the Fatawu substitution on 59 minutes by bringing on winger Ryan Fraser on 62 minutes. The tactic was really brilliant the fact it didn't work is down to the players not doing their jobs yet again. 

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It was a tactical gamble that backfired Surely, the better choice would have been to replace the left full back we had lost (KWP) with another full back (Taylor) rather than a winger who is out of both form and match practice.

Combined with the unjustifiable replacement of Fernandes with another player short of form and match fitness in Smallbone, the surrender of a 2 goal lead is on Martin.  

Similarly, Dibling was replaced by a third player who is short of form (a whole season) and match practice in Sullemana. 

Three poor subs which weakened us whereas Fatawa strengthened Leicester City

  • Like 5
Hodgey

Hodgey

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 15:00, Whitey Grandad said:

Of course that’s down to the manager! It was exactly the same against Ipswich with different players in the team. Can you not see a pattern here? In all my years of playing and watching football I have never seen any team professional or amateur trying to defend corners this way.

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Funnily enough I initially thought this, but actually having now watched for this, most Prem teams defend with everyone in the box and nobody just outside. Statistically there must be data on this that it’s the best way to defend.

that said, other teams bust an absolute gut to push outside the box as soon as the ball is going that way - not a lackadaisical jog with hands behind back etc.

also the goal yesterday wasn’t the same as Ipswich - Ayew was actually unmarked in the box from the off (on that I agree - I don’t see any teams deliberately leave an opposing centre forward completely free in the box)

  • Like 3
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 20/10/2024 at 16:11, lambtiss said:

It was a tactical gamble that backfired Surely, the better choice would have been to replace the left full back we had lost (KWP) with another full back (Taylor) rather than a winger who is out of both form and match practice.

Combined with the unjustifiable replacement of Fernandes with another player short of form and match fitness in Smallbone, the surrender of a 2 goal lead is on Martin.  

Similarly, Dibling was replaced by a third player who is short of form (a whole season) and match practice in Sullemana. 

Three poor subs which weakened us whereas Fatawa strengthened Leicester City

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Disagree. Bringing on Sullemana was a masterstroke. He hasn't scored or assisted i think for nearly 18 months, that has to change some time so Martin must have thought today was that day and why wouldn't you? If he doesn't play his bad form doesn't end.

Martin said he feels better when Smallbone plays so that decision made sense.

Bringing on Frazer was an attacking move, he would have forced Fatawu back and given him something to think about defensively whereas Taylor might be a full back with many years top flight experience but he is a defender so would have put us on the back foot

All 3 substitutions made perfect sense the fact they didn't work is on the players.

Edited by Turkish
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Osvaldorama

Osvaldorama

Posted
Posted

To put our start into perspective. If we continue as we are, we’d:

- Concede 86 goals 
- Score 29 goals 
- Accumulate 5 points

Some may say it’ll get easier, but we’ve played 2 promoted sides, and only 3 sides that finished in the top half last year.

 

Put simply, Martin is doing a phenomenal job 

  • Like 6
  • Haha 5
Yorkshire Saint

Yorkshire Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 20/10/2024 at 16:16, Turkish said:

Disagree. Bringing on Sullemana was a masterstroke. He hasn't scored or assisted i think for nearly 18 months, that has to change some time so Martin must have thought today was that day and why wouldn't you? If he doesn't play his bad form doesn't end.

Martin said he feels better when Smallbone plays so that decision made sense.

Bringing on Frazer was an attacking move, he would have forced Fatawu back and given him something to think about defensively whereas Taylor might be a full back with many years top flight experience but he is a defender so would have put us on the back foot

All 3 substitutions made perfect sense the fact they didn't work is on the players.

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Are you on the Jennings again Turkish ?

Edited by Yorkshire Saint
Lee On Solent Saint

Lee On Solent Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 16:12, Hodgey said:

Statistically there must be data on this that it’s the best way to defend.

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Fuckin statistics again. Football is played on a green pitch, not a spreadsheet. The best way to defend is to ensure that you don't leave anybody free, every player should be marking another. None of this zonal bolliocks. Leave a player between the halfway line and penalty box, someone with a bit of speed who can run onto any clearences, give the opposition something to think about. Don't care if its not fashionable, its effective. 

  • Like 3
Holmes_and_Watson

Holmes_and_Watson

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 15:44, Turkish said:

He countered the Fatawu substitution on 59 minutes by bringing on winger Ryan Fraser on 62 minutes. The tactic was really brilliant the fact it didn't work is down to the players not doing their jobs yet again.

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  On 20/10/2024 at 15:47, Turkish said:

As i said above Martin reacted by bringing on Frazer 3 minutes later. You could clearly see that putting on a smaller, slower winger at wing back to match up against their winger, push him back and therefore make him less effective was a genius tactic that barring getting skinned for the goal and sent off would have resulted in us seeing out the win if the player hadn't messed up

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You're not free for the rest of the season are you? RM just needs that reinforcement of his genius to get it to sink in.

  On 20/10/2024 at 16:16, Turkish said:

Disagree. Bringing on Sullemana was a masterstroke. He hasn't scored or assisted i think for nearly 18 months, that has to change some time so Martin must have thought today was that day and why wouldn't you? If he doesn't play his bad form doesn't end.

Martin said he feels better when Smallbone plays so that decision made sense.

Bringing on Frazer was an attacking move, he would have forced Fatawu back and given him something to think about defensively whereas Taylor might be a full back with many years top flight experience but he is a defender so would have put us on the back foot

All 3 substitutions made perfect sense the fact they didn't work is on the players.

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This. Supporters complain about trendy, hipster approaches. Back in the old days, a player might not see the ball before Friday, to keep him hungry. How much better than to drop a player for a season, freeze him out of first team minutes and have the club do it's level best to get rid of him. Sule surely couldn't have been hungrier or sharper to do well. That's all on the player. Rasmus even called to make sure he was broken, before being sent on.

I remember that Will comment when he came on. The familiar more than the capable for that role yesterday.

Fraser coming on was actually to give us an out to support, as well as doubling up. Trying to replicate the Suga/KWP balance. Even though it was completely the wrong thing to be thinking about as Leicester overran us.

  • Like 2
coalman

coalman

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 16:20, Osvaldorama said:

To put our start into perspective. If we continue as we are, we’d:

- Concede 86 goals 
- Score 29 goals 
- Accumulate 5 points

Some may say it’ll get easier, but we’ve played 2 promoted sides, and only 3 sides that finished in the top half last year.

 

Put simply, Martin is doing a phenomenal job 

Expand  

Once again using numbers to make a point backfires on this forum. There's no way this team under this manager gets to 5 points this season unless the other teams have a whip round at Christmas to donate us a few.

  • Like 1
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 16:51, coalman said:

Once again using numbers to make a point backfires on this forum. There's no way this team under this manager gets to 5 points this season unless the other teams have a whip round at Christmas to donate us a few.

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would be good to add lowest ever points tally to our record defeat title. Knowing Saints we'll scramble to 11 points somehow and even fuck that up

  • Haha 1
Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 15:18, Farmer Saint said:

It comes through TV rights, commercial revenue increases and position awards - what are you on about? Are you saying that you don't earn money for it? 

Have a read: https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/championship-play-off-final-how-much-premier-league-promotion-decider-worth/17nz5miq9ytix1wkm1w5q2kozd

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It all disappears in agents fees and players’ salaries.

coalman

coalman

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 16:53, Turkish said:

would be good to add lowest ever points tally to our record defeat title. Knowing Saints we'll scramble to 11 points somehow and even fuck that up

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The record defeat title isn't really ours until we lose 10-0... We can still also manage most goals conceded and least goals scored records to that. Martin is in the rarest of positions of having the quadruple up for grabs this season.

  • Like 1
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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 16:55, coalman said:

The record defeat title isn't really ours until we lose 10-0... We can still also manage most goals conceded and least goals scored records to that. Martin is in the rarest of positions of having the quadruple up for grabs this season.

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yeah that's what i mean we dont even hold that out right and we'll probably scramble 11 points to share that one too. Although if anyone can set two records in one season it's Russ.

  • Like 2
Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 16:12, Hodgey said:

Funnily enough I initially thought this, but actually having now watched for this, most Prem teams defend with everyone in the box and nobody just outside. Statistically there must be data on this that it’s the best way to defend.

that said, other teams bust an absolute gut to push outside the box as soon as the ball is going that way - not a lackadaisical jog with hands behind back etc.

also the goal yesterday wasn’t the same as Ipswich - Ayew was actually unmarked in the box from the off (on that I agree - I don’t see any teams deliberately leave an opposing centre forward completely free in the box)

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Cramming the goal area means that your goalkeeper has a blocked view of the ball.

  • Like 4
Micky

Micky

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 16:20, Osvaldorama said:

To put our start into perspective. If we continue as we are, we’d:

- Concede 86 goals 
- Score 29 goals 
- Accumulate 5 points

Some may say it’ll get easier, but we’ve played 2 promoted sides, and only 3 sides that finished in the top half last year.

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Yes, yes, but you've conveniently left out our possession stats that we'll all be able to wax lyrical about as we are being derided by supporters of other teams..!

  • Like 1
coalman

coalman

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 20/10/2024 at 16:59, Micky said:

Yes, yes, but you've conveniently left out our possession stats that we'll all be able to wax lyrical about as we are being derided by supporters of other teams..!

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Yesterday showed that we can cough up plenty of clear cut opportunities even when we're not fucking around with it about our box.

Edited by coalman
  • Like 1
notnowcato

notnowcato

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 15:44, Turkish said:

He countered the Fatawu substitution on 59 minutes by bringing on winger Ryan Fraser on 62 minutes. The tactic was really brilliant the fact it didn't work is down to the players not doing their jobs yet again.

Expand  

Manning had to be removed as he was on a yellow and fairly fucking obvious that wouldn’t work against Fatawu. 

  • Haha 1
SaintsBarry74

SaintsBarry74

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 16:12, Lord Duckhunter said:

I thought we lost twice to Leicester last season. 

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They put 9 past us across those two games last season, so they’ll need another 6 in our away fixture to match that. Considering it wasn’t long ago they managed to score 9 in a single game against us, I’d say that’s some solid improvement on our part! #RussBall

  • Haha 2
Saint NL

Saint NL

Posted
Posted
  On 20/10/2024 at 12:16, AlexLaw76 said:

Do you remember when he set us up with our 2x forwards 60 yards apart on each wing. Or when we went to Bournemouth with Dibbling as our CF

😂

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That's worst than anything Nathan Jones ever did ffs

  • Like 1

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