Russell Martin

[DT]

Russell Martin is a Brighton lad, runs an academy in the city (both my kids have played in them) and his son is at school there too. Thus he is a contender for the Brighton job. Wouldn’t be surprised. He’s 15/2 for it. If he goes we should opt for David Moyes or Steve Cooper. I think we’ll know after next Sunday. 

[trousers]

  On 18/05/2024 at 15:30, Dusic said:

The club already addressed this with Parsons confirming they feel he is doing a good job

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Yep, never in the history of football has a manager ever left having received the board's vote of confidence...

[Dusic]

  On 19/05/2024 at 05:52, trousers said:

Yep, never in the history of football has a manager ever left having received the board's vote of confidence...

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Have a listen to it and if you still think its a distinct possibility that Saints might actively sack Russell Martin between this season and next then let me know!

 

 

[trousers]

  On 19/05/2024 at 06:29, Dusic said:

Have a listen to it and if you still think its a distinct possibility that Saints might actively sack Russell Martin between this season and next then let me know!

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Agree it's unlikely that he'll be "sacked" but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that he could leave "by mutual consent" if an approach came in for him, regardless of any glowing words from the board. 

[Dusic]

  On 19/05/2024 at 06:44, trousers said:

Agree it's unlikely that he'll be "sacked" but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that he could leave "by mutual consent" if an approach came in for him, regardless of any glowing words from the board. 

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Potentially yes if he gets what he perceives as a better opportunity, same as for any manager. But extremely unlikely the club actively looks to change, as Parsons essentially says.

Personally I think the clubs coming down are a good bit weaker than those going up so even if we lose on Sunday I think we would have a good crack at auto promotion again next season despite the inevitable departure of a few players. Consistency in playing style and ability/knowledge to recruit for that would be advantageous rather than suddenly moving to something totally different. For the best players at this level we would be an extremely attractive proposition after this season I think.

 

[CB Fry]

Russell Martin is not going to be sacked and he won't go to Brighton.

[Badger]

  On 19/05/2024 at 05:35, DT said:

Russell Martin is a Brighton lad, runs an academy in the city (both my kids have played in them) and his son is at school there too. Thus he is a contender for the Brighton job. Wouldn’t be surprised. He’s 15/2 for it. If he goes we should opt for David Moyes or Steve Cooper. I think we’ll know after next Sunday. 

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None of the reasons you give would make RM a contender for the Brighton job, only why he might be interested in it.

I can’t see Brighton regarding him as sufficiently experienced (for where they now see themselves). 

[gio1saints]

For those of you who feel he’s just an arrogant so and so only interested in his hair style or hipster ways you may be surprised to know that there’s another side to him if you check out what  the ( very successful) Foundation he set up in 2017 does. 
Sometimes, if you wish to learn about the ( sometimes obscured or hidden) character and motives of a man it can help look at what he does away from “ work” sometimes as much if not more so than what he says or does at “ work”. 

https://www.russellmartinfoundation.co.uk

Edited 19 May, 2024 by gio1saints
Make sense

[miserableoldgit]

  On 18/05/2024 at 21:32, woodsaint1 said:

What a kick in the stones that would be for Ipswich. You would imagine that after b2b promotions he would want to lead them in the PL

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Ahem....Nigel Adkins.....

[Fan The Flames]

  On 19/05/2024 at 07:54, CB Fry said:

Russell Martin is not going to be sacked and he won't go to Brighton.

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I wouldn't be surprised if Brighton talk to/ consider him. There is a lot of good will towards him by some Brighton fans, which I know doesn't mean anything, other than he's on the radar there.

It will be a difficult job there, Brighton could easily go into a period of decline. I know they have a lot of injuries and a bit of spare cash.

[david in sweden]

  On 19/05/2024 at 09:40, miserableoldgit said:

Ahem....Nigel Adkins.....

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old Chinese football proverb says ." never go back " ..it's better to have the good memories.

[CSA96]

  On 19/05/2024 at 08:38, Badger said:

None of the reasons you give would make RM a contender for the Brighton job, only why he might be interested in it.

I can’t see Brighton regarding him as sufficiently experienced (for where they now see themselves). 

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To be fair, if McKenna is their top target then I'd argue that he isn't too inexperienced for them. Martin has five seasons of managerial experience to McKenna's 2.5 seasons. Doesn't have the promotion to the PL, of course, but might be able to match up on that soon enough...

[CSA96]

  On 19/05/2024 at 05:35, DT said:

Russell Martin is a Brighton lad, runs an academy in the city (both my kids have played in them) and his son is at school there too. Thus he is a contender for the Brighton job. Wouldn’t be surprised. He’s 15/2 for it. If he goes we should opt for David Moyes or Steve Cooper. I think we’ll know after next Sunday. 

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Pretty sure he still lives that way and commutes in. I remember listening to a podcast where he said to disconnect from what's happening at Saints he likes to go for long walks and cold swims on Hove beach. Was also saying how after living in Swansea while managing Swansea, he thinks it is healthier for his children and wife to live and go to work/school in a different city to the one he is managing the football club of.

Of course that last point could be an argument for not going anywhere near the Brighton job 

Edited 20 May, 2024 by CSA96

[hypochondriac]

  On 18/05/2024 at 21:32, woodsaint1 said:

What a kick in the stones that would be for Ipswich. You would imagine that after b2b promotions he would want to lead them in the PL

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I'm genuinely not sure why. He's flavour of the month and may be amazing but it's undeniably a risk seeing as he has no track record of performance at that level. They'd no doubt have to pay hefty compensation as well and it could all go tits up. If he got Ipswich clear of relegation this season then you can see the appeal. 

Edited 20 May, 2024 by hypochondriac

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 20/05/2024 at 10:28, hypochondriac said:

I'm genuinely not sure why. He's flavour of the month and may be amazing but it's undeniably a risk seeing as he has no track record of performance at that level. They'd no doubt have to pay hefty compensation as well and it could all go tits up. If he got Ipswich clear of relegation this season then you can see the appeal. 

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This could be a job where the pony “football philosophy” is illustrated. Lego is probably a better fit if they want to play a certain way, even though McKenna has done a better job this season.  The fact he’s devised a system & style to suit the  players and found a style to get them out of the league they’re in, counts for fuck all. It’s all about your spread sheets, philosophy & score on the hipster chart. 
 

Souness summed it up this week. Said he could see Kompany replacing Pep despite being relegated, whereas has he gone all Fat Sam but kept them up, he wouldn’t get a sniff. 

[JustinR]

  On 20/05/2024 at 11:45, Lord Duckhunter said:

This could be a job where the pony “football philosophy” is illustrated. Lego is probably a better fit if they want to play a certain way, even though McKenna has done a better job this season.  The fact he’s devised a system & style to suit the  players and found a style to get them out of the league they’re in, counts for fuck all. It’s all about your spread sheets, philosophy & score on the hipster chart. 
 

Souness summed it up this week. Said he could see Kompany replacing Pep despite being relegated, whereas has he gone all Fat Sam but kept them up, he wouldn’t get a sniff. 

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Works both ways though... Sean Dyche (essentially) had a relegation on his CV with Burnley- yet bagged the biggest gig of his career at Everton. Presumably based on the style of football they knew they'd get. 

So if he'd gone Fat Sam, then he'd be in a very strong position for Forest type jobs next year. But he didn't, so he won't. Not sure Man City is a realistic destination for him right now

Edited 20 May, 2024 by JustinR

[goodymatt]

  On 20/05/2024 at 11:45, Lord Duckhunter said:

This could be a job where the pony “football philosophy” is illustrated. Lego is probably a better fit if they want to play a certain way, even though McKenna has done a better job this season.  The fact he’s devised a system & style to suit the  players and found a style to get them out of the league they’re in, counts for fuck all. It’s all about your spread sheets, philosophy & score on the hipster chart. 
 

Souness summed it up this week. Said he could see Kompany replacing Pep despite being relegated, whereas has he gone all Fat Sam but kept them up, he wouldn’t get a sniff. 

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Interestingly Kompany is on Bayern’s list according to Fabrizio:

https://x.com/fabrizioromano/status/1792665372367393243?s=46&t=7raSKCMt6LV8RJ1C2d39WQ

[gio1saints]

  On 20/05/2024 at 12:32, JustinR said:

Works both ways though... Sean Dyche (essentially) had a relegation on his CV with Burnley- yet bagged the biggest gig of his career at Everton. Presumably based on the style of football they knew they'd get. 

So if he'd gone Fat Sam, then he'd be in a very strong position for Forest type jobs next year. But he didn't, so he won't. Not sure Man City is a realistic destination for him right now

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It’s an interesting discussion. I think it just reinforces the increasing importance of “ brand value” perhaps sometimes ( or often) over the actual football. 
in business a company brand value can be 80% or more of their open market sale value. 
 

Bayern Munich under Kompany would not likely lose much brand value even if they lost matches. If they employed Fat Sam though they would probably lose brand value even if they lost fewer matches. 
It’s obviously bizarre incomprehensible and extremely regrettable to football traditionalists- but it is the way of the world today.. 

It’s why managers who represent a certain brand ( or style if yiu like) of play appear reluctant to change tactics if it goes wrong. So much money is at stake all off the pitch. 

[Wade Garrett]

  On 20/05/2024 at 12:32, JustinR said:

Works both ways though... Sean Dyche (essentially) had a relegation on his CV with Burnley- yet bagged the biggest gig of his career at Everton. Presumably based on the style of football they knew they'd get. 

So if he'd gone Fat Sam, then he'd be in a very strong position for Forest type jobs next year. But he didn't, so he won't. Not sure Man City is a realistic destination for him right now

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Dyche’s tactics are based on getting the most from his players.  Kompany’s are about his next job.  There is a difference.

Souness was spot on.  

[gio1saints]

Dyche and Moyes are like peas in a pod. Souness and Roy Hodgson were same also.Play the players you have in their best positions. 

Pep, Arteta, Bielsa, early Has, Poch, De Zerbi, that Aussie guy at spurs, Kompany - and our very own RM are more the brand value type of managers. Play this particular style of football first and foremost. Do not care if it doesn’t suit you- change or leave/get sold. 
 

Managers who start off with strong values but then dilute them become anonymous if they lose. And unemployed.
Managers with strong values who do not dilute them when they lose can become notorious. That’s better than anonymous. If you don’t stand for something you’ll fall for anything so the saying goes. And those guys can still get jobs accordingly. Despite and even if they lose. That Vincent Kompany is in with a shout of the Bayern job despite that Burnley shitshow this season shows it in a nutshell.  
 

Edited 21 May, 2024 by gio1saints

[Fabrice29]

  On 21/05/2024 at 11:48, Wade Garrett said:

Dyche’s tactics are based on getting the most from his players.  Kompany’s are about his next job.  There is a difference.

Souness was spot on.  

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On the basis Souness used Allardyce as an example (according to the above) and Allardyce has had 2 relegations in his last 2 jobs and the fan base of his 3rd last job hate him, I’m actually going to conclude he was not spot on. 

It’s absolutely correct, normal and to be expected that managers who coach more entertaining football are more sought after than managers who don’t.

[swannymere]

Off to Brighton, COTIC

[goodymatt]

Brighton links are perhaps a little lazy and do think they are currently of a standing that can attract a manager of higher calibre. However, they are very much a data driven club, his style would suit, he’s a local lad and if we were to not make it up on Sunday, would the PL and location be too tempting for Russ? McKenna being their first choice makes a lot of sense (he’s already being linked to bigger clubs), but if he doesn’t say yes, I don’t think Russ will be too far down their list.

Personally, I think losing Russell this summer would only be a bad thing. So much change has taken place and he’s still got us to within 1 game of the PL. In the main it’s been a decent watch and I think it’s hard to argue that he’s not done a decent job. Yes, we didn’t get automatics and there are a couple of poor runs, defensively we’ve been conceding too many but the football has been sensational at times. If he can learn to be more pragmatic and flexible, he has the makings of a very exciting young manager that will undoubtedly manage a bigger club in the future. He’s a manager I really want to do well with us.

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 21/05/2024 at 12:44, Fabrice29 said:

On the basis Souness used Allardyce as an example (according to the above) and Allardyce has had 2 relegations in his last 2 jobs and the fan base of his 3rd last job hate him, I’m actually going to conclude he was not spot on. 

 

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He didn’t. Believe it or not, “going all Fat Sam” isn’t a punditry term (although it should be). I guess I thought it was a concise & shorthand version of certain tactics and didn’t account for the forum pedants. 
 

His was spot on, as was Wade Garrett, they’re more interested in playing the “right”way than actually doing what’s right for the club. I’ve no doubt Lego would rather finish 4th playing his way, than get it in the mixer every time  & finish second. The way football is, it’ll be better for his career. 

Edited 21 May, 2024 by Lord Duckhunter

[Fabrice29]

  On 21/05/2024 at 16:28, Lord Duckhunter said:

He didn’t. Believe it or not, “going all Fat Sam” isn’t a punditry term (although it should be). I guess I thought it was a concise & shorthand version of certain tactics and didn’t account for the forum pedants. 
 

His was spot on, as was Wade Garrett, they’re more interested in playing the “right”way than actually doing what’s right for the club. I’ve no doubt Lego would rather finish 4th playing his way, than get it in the mixer every time  & finish second. The way football is, it’ll be better for his career. 

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Except the team who finished 2nd didn't get it in the mixer every time and neither do most successful teams in Europe.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

I think I’ll go with Souness, rather than someone who seems incapable of grasping the point being made. 

[notnowcato]

  On 21/05/2024 at 16:28, Lord Duckhunter said:

He didn’t. Believe it or not, “going all Fat Sam” isn’t a punditry term (although it should be). I guess I thought it was a concise & shorthand version of certain tactics and didn’t account for the forum pedants. 
 

His was spot on, as was Wade Garrett, they’re more interested in playing the “right”way than actually doing what’s right for the club. I’ve no doubt Lego would rather finish 4th playing his way, than get it in the mixer every time  & finish second. The way football is, it’ll be better for his career. 

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Not sure what point you’re trying to make. Anyway, for clarity, the club hired Russell because of his style of play. 

[Fabrice29]

  On 21/05/2024 at 16:59, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

I think I’ll go with Souness, rather than someone who seems incapable of grasping the point being made. 

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I've grasped the point being made, you seem to think managers actively play a certain way to attract higher jobs and seem to think they negate getting the best out of their current players in their pursuit to do so. However the point completely fails to grasp the fact that playing a certain way is also a conduit for success, as per most successful teams in Europe. 

And citing Dyche and Allardyce as examples of "gets the best out of their players" isn't a particularly good retort because they quite clearly aren't very successful. 

Edited 21 May, 2024 by Fabrice29

[AlexLaw76]

  On 21/05/2024 at 17:09, Fabrice29 said:

I've grasped the point being made, you seem to think managers actively play a certain way to attract higher jobs and seem to think they negate getting the best out of their current players in their pursuit to do so. However the point completely fails to grasp the fact that playing a certain way is also a conduit for success, as per most successful teams in Europe. 

And citing Dyche and Allardyce as examples of "gets the best out of their players" isn't a particularly good retort because they quite clearly aren't very successful. 

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Dyche is and has been pretty successful to be fair.

As for a certain way, got Russell Martin a job beyond his CV

[Wade Garrett]

  On 21/05/2024 at 12:44, Fabrice29 said:

On the basis Souness used Allardyce as an example (according to the above) and Allardyce has had 2 relegations in his last 2 jobs and the fan base of his 3rd last job hate him, I’m actually going to conclude he was not spot on. 

It’s absolutely correct, normal and to be expected that managers who coach more entertaining football are more sought after than managers who don’t.

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I think the point Souness was making was more about Kompany not adapting Burnley’s tactics for his own selfish reasons rather than be pragmatic for the good of the football club.

 

[Fabrice29]

  On 21/05/2024 at 20:43, Wade Garrett said:

I think the point Souness was making was more about Kompany not adapting Burnley’s tactics for his own selfish reasons rather than be pragmatic for the good of the football club.

 

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Yes, and it's a daft point. 

Edited 21 May, 2024 by Fabrice29

[HKsaint]

Chelsea coming 

[hypochondriac]

  On 21/05/2024 at 23:45, HKsaint said:

Chelsea coming 

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Imagine sacking off Poch and going with Martin. Coocoo bananas. Luckily it's bollocks. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 21/05/2024 at 17:07, notnowcato said:

Not sure what point you’re trying to make. Anyway, for clarity, the club hired Russell because of his style of play. 

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You’re not sure of the point being made, then make the same point 😂😂

Martin got this job on the back of the way he played at Swansea. Had he got promotion playing a long ball game,  it would have been better for Swansea, but not for his career. Souness’ point was that this is why managers don’t change, don’t adapt, don’t play a bit more pragmatic if they need to. It’s not about what’s best for their club, but what is better for their career. 

 

 

[Midfield_General]

  On 22/05/2024 at 12:11, hypochondriac said:

Imagine sacking off Poch and going with Martin. Coocoo bananas. Luckily it's bollocks. 

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If they sack Poch in order to bring in McKenna, that’s not far off batshit mental either, in terms of sheer level of risk 

[hypochondriac]

  On 22/05/2024 at 12:17, Lord Duckhunter said:

You’re not sure of the point being made, then make the same point 😂😂

Martin got this job on the back of the way he played at Swansea. Had he got promotion playing a long ball game,  it would have been better for Swansea, but not for his career. Souness’ point was that this is why managers don’t change, don’t adapt, don’t play a bit more pragmatic if they need to. It’s not about what’s best for their club, but what is better for their career. 

 

 

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There's some truth to that.

[Wade Garrett]

  On 21/05/2024 at 21:20, Fabrice29 said:

Yes, and it's a daft point. 

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In your opinion, not mine.

[Fabrice29]

  On 22/05/2024 at 12:17, Lord Duckhunter said:

You’re not sure of the point being made, then make the same point 😂😂

Martin got this job on the back of the way he played at Swansea. Had he got promotion playing a long ball game,  it would have been better for Swansea, but not for his career. Souness’ point was that this is why managers don’t change, don’t adapt, don’t play a bit more pragmatic if they need to. It’s not about what’s best for their club, but what is better for their career. 

 

 

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  On 22/05/2024 at 12:44, Wade Garrett said:

In your opinion, not mine.

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The idea that managers like Martin and Kompany chose a certain way to play and avoid ‘getting it in the mixer’ even if it would help their club, is daft, not least because a) it’s not true but also b) it doesn’t stack up. Swansea went pragmatic straight after Martin, and guess what, it wasn’t successful. Kompanys tactics got them an incredible season and therefore changing his way would arguably be detrimental to the players he recruited and based on the fact the other two teams who went down with them were ‘pragmatic’ there’s no evidence it would have got different/better results. 

[Wade Garrett]

  On 22/05/2024 at 13:21, Fabrice29 said:

 

The idea that managers like Martin and Kompany chose a certain way to play and avoid ‘getting it in the mixer’ even if it would help their club, is daft, not least because a) it’s not true but also b) it doesn’t stack up. Swansea went pragmatic straight after Martin, and guess what, it wasn’t successful. Kompanys tactics got them an incredible season and therefore changing his way would arguably be detrimental to the players he recruited and based on the fact the other two teams who went down with them were ‘pragmatic’ there’s no evidence it would have got different/better results. 

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Let’s just agree to disagree.

[hypochondriac]

Assuming McKenna goes to Chelsea and not Brighton, you'd have to think Martin would be high on the list for the Seagulls. 

[Saint Gifford]

It’s silly season again the manager player merry go round. 😂😂😂

Tbf it does feel a little bit like the changing of the guard and a new breed of managers and players coming thru. 
 

The England team yesterday suggests there is a new cycle of names appearing and the old guard being left behind. 
 

A start of a new era for English club football (and national) me thinks. 

[hypochondriac]

  On 22/05/2024 at 16:35, Saint Gifford said:

It’s silly season again the manager player merry go round. 😂😂😂

Tbf it does feel a little bit like the changing of the guard and a new breed of managers and players coming thru. 
 

The England team yesterday suggests there is a new cycle of names appearing and the old guard being left behind. 
 

A start of a new era for English club football (and national) me thinks. 

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I just wonder if poch would be a shout for the England job after the Euros. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

  On 22/05/2024 at 16:54, hypochondriac said:

I just wonder if poch would be a shout for the England job after the Euros. 

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I was wondering if Martin would be a shout out for the England job after the Euros.

A blistering attacking line up of Foden, Kane, Saka, Bellingham...

...  just waiting for it to be shuttled across the defence one more time before getting passed across the midfield as well... 🙂

[Dusic]

  On 22/05/2024 at 15:58, hypochondriac said:

Assuming McKenna goes to Chelsea and not Brighton, you'd have to think Martin would be high on the list for the Seagulls. 

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I think so. Loads of clubs are recruiting managers based on style and coaching ability over proven results.

RM has shown he can coach a team very well in possession and as expected with better players here than at Swansea he has achieved much better results.

Brighton play a possession heavy style so obvious why he would be of some interest.

[hypochondriac]

  On 22/05/2024 at 17:21, Dusic said:

I think so. Loads of clubs are recruiting managers based on style and coaching ability over proven results.

RM has shown he can coach a team very well in possession and as expected with better players here than at Swansea he has achieved much better results.

Brighton play a possession heavy style so obvious why he would be of some interest.

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Combined with all of his links to Brighton, it wouldn't be particularly surprising. Let's hope he gets us up then we can give someone else a go because I'm not sure his rigid style will keep us up anyway. 

[Midfield_General]

In a world where Tuchel, Conte, Flick, Mourinho, Poch, Klopp and probably soon Ten Hag are all available, and Bayern Munich opt for freshly relegated Burnley manager Vincent Kompany, I think it’s fair to say that Brighton being interested in Martin is not completely out of the question. 

 

[Charlie Wayman]

  On 23/05/2024 at 07:02, Midfield_General said:

In a world where Tuchel, Conte, Flick, Mourinho, Poch, Klopp and probably soon Ten Hag are all available, and Bayern Munich opt for freshly relegated Burnley manager Vincent Kompany, I think it’s fair to say that Brighton being interested in Martin is not completely out of the question. 

 

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It's logic Jim but not as we know it!

[Dman]

Wouldn't be arsed if Martin went on Monday morning, plently of decent options out there and I woul dhave no trust in him keeping us up (or taking us up without flynn Downes for that matter). 

If we fail to go up and want to continue with the tippy tappy, spreadsheet, achieved nothing mantra, Rosenior is avalible - the best side I've seen at St Mary's this season, not sure how they didn't make the play-offs.  

[S-Clarke]

  On 23/05/2024 at 07:52, Dman said:

Wouldn't be arsed if Martin went on Monday morning, plently of decent options out there and I woul dhave no trust in him keeping us up (or taking us up without flynn Downes for that matter). 

If we fail to go up and want to continue with the tippy tappy, spreadsheet, achieved nothing mantra, Rosenior is avalible - the best side I've seen at St Mary's this season, not sure how they didn't make the play-offs.  

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Rosenior would be a bit of a mentalist/daft move if that scenario plays out. He's exactly the same as Martin, no different - same young, inexperienced coach mantra. Same possession at all costs mantra, same passing it for passing sake mantra (Hull fans had the same moans). Could just call him Martin-lite.

And to be honest with the players Rosenior had available, he flopped last year. They were miles better in terms of squad than Norwich or WBA, they shouldn't have missed out with the players they had - seems like their owner felt the same. If we dumped Martin I'd want an upgrade, not someone who does the same - but worse.

[Fabrice29]

  On 23/05/2024 at 07:02, Midfield_General said:

In a world where Tuchel, Conte, Flick, Mourinho, Poch, Klopp and probably soon Ten Hag are all available, and Bayern Munich opt for freshly relegated Burnley manager Vincent Kompany, I think it’s fair to say that Brighton being interested in Martin is not completely out of the question. 

 

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I think it's fair to say Bayern opted for various people before Kompany but were turned down consistently.