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Russell Martin

LegalEagle

By LegalEagle
in The Saints

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted

"My son's crying" about a manager who scraped to 10th last season. Jeees.

I wonder what he was like when Steve Cooper left them?

  • Haha 1
goodymatt

goodymatt

Posted
Posted

This article confirms the different compensation values, so we are haggling over a £500k difference. Legal battle likely and backroom staff is still not resolved.

Maresca is also claimed in this article to be our first choice. Which makes you wonder why we didn’t just wait for City to end their season, unless he was already lined up for Leicester when we first approached him. 

bpsaint

bpsaint

Posted
Posted

Scummy from us in my humble opinion. If we really wanted him then pay the compensation and do it the right way. It’s peanuts compared to the £18 mill we wasted on that donkey Tall Paul.

  • Like 7
  • Confused 1
Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 25/06/2023 at 08:13, goodymatt said:

This article confirms the different compensation values, so we are haggling over a £500k difference. Legal battle likely and backroom staff is still not resolved.

Maresca is also claimed in this article to be our first choice. Which makes you wonder why we didn’t just wait for City to end their season, unless he was already lined up for Leicester when we first approached him. 

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All of which bodes well for Martin going back to Swansea for key players, Grimes, and Piroe. 
 

As for Maresca, time will tell but putting our hopes on a relatively unknown,whose main claim to fame is being one of Pep’s bag carriers,suggests we’ve learnt fuck all from mistakes of trying to unearth gems rather than go for someone with a decent track record.

 

Edited by Badger
  • Like 4
Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
  On 25/06/2023 at 08:23, bpsaint said:

Scummy from us in my humble opinion. If we really wanted him then pay the compensation and do it the right way. It’s peanuts compared to the £18 mill we wasted on that donkey Tall Paul.

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Also have to wonder if the appointment was or will be worth it, rather than walking away from it. This is a mid-table Championship manager we’re talking of. 

  • Like 1
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)

# Tangential thought klaxon #

Am I alone in wondering why Swansea structured the compensation tiers that way around in the first place?

Surely it would make more sense to have set the compensation for him joining a club in the same league higher than the compensation for joining a club in a different league?

In other words, you'd want to discourage him being poached by a direct competitor more than a club you're not in direct competition with...?

Edited by trousers
Nolan

Nolan

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 25/06/2023 at 08:23, bpsaint said:

Scummy from us in my humble opinion. If we really wanted him then pay the compensation and do it the right way. It’s peanuts compared to the £18 mill we wasted on that donkey Tall Paul.

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Absolutely 100% disagree.

We bought Ounachu when attempting to stay up 

Now a lot of Staff are in a consultation period with their jobs.

Players have already reportedly taken a 40% pay cut.

Martin will not manage a game in the Premier League in the short term.

We should be seen to be conserving money on behalf of our staff.

 

 

Edited by Nolan
  • Like 9
wild-saint

wild-saint

Posted
Posted
  On 25/06/2023 at 08:23, bpsaint said:

Scummy from us in my humble opinion. If we really wanted him then pay the compensation and do it the right way. It’s peanuts compared to the £18 mill we wasted on that donkey Tall Paul.

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why is disputing the interpretation of a contract clause scummy, particularly when its £500k? the 2 parties don't agree and a court or arbitrator will decide. fairly standard business behaviour. 

  • Like 3
InvictaSaint

InvictaSaint

Posted
Posted
  On 25/06/2023 at 09:30, trousers said:

# Tangential thought klaxon #

Am I alone in wondering why Swansea structured the compensation tiers that way around in the first place?

Surely it would have made more sense to have set the compensation for him joining a club in the same league higher than the compensation for joining a club in a different league?

In other words, you'd want to discourage him being poached by a direct competitor more than a club you're not in direct competition with...?

Expand  

Indeed! Or at least make one (direct competitor) unmanageably high and the other (club from a higher league) even higher!

When you read the Athletic piece - as is so often the case with that particular platform these days - it's something and nothing and actually boils down to this:

- Saints feel they owe X

- Swansea feel they are owed Y

- Difference of opinion

- Probably get settled either just before or in court

Happens in business and football all the time and really nothing to get flustered about.

  • Like 2
Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 25/06/2023 at 08:13, goodymatt said:

This article confirms the different compensation values, so we are haggling over a £500k difference. Legal battle likely and backroom staff is still not resolved.

Maresca is also claimed in this article to be our first choice. Which makes you wonder why we didn’t just wait for City to end their season, unless he was already lined up for Leicester when we first approached him. 

Expand  

Article is behind a pay wall so I can't read it.

What 'staff were kept in the dark' is the article on about?  It's hardly been the best kept secret in the world....

Edited by Weston Super Saint
HarvSFC

HarvSFC

Posted
Posted
  On 25/06/2023 at 11:13, Weston Super Saint said:

Article is behind a pay wall so I can't read it.

What 'staff were kept in the dark' is the article on about?  It's hardly been the best kept secret in the world....

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The Swansea coaching team, apparently. Probably the most concerning thing about the article, we don't have any senior coaches at this moment in time, which is why they weren't announced alongside Martin. While a lot of clubs started their pre-season testing on Friday.

After the shambles of last season and the past year of Sports Republic's ownership, it would have been nice to not have any early summer drama going into the new season.

  • Like 3
Fitzhugh Fella

Fitzhugh Fella

Posted
Posted
  On 25/06/2023 at 09:34, InvictaSaint said:

Indeed! Or at least make one (direct competitor) unmanageably high and the other (club from a higher league) even higher!

When you read the Athletic piece - as is so often the case with that particular platform these days - it's something and nothing and actually boils down to this:

- Saints feel they owe X

- Swansea feel they are owed Y

- Difference of opinion

- Probably get settled either just before or in court

Happens in business and football all the time and really nothing to get flustered about.

Expand  

Well the fact he hasn’t been able (as of yet) to bring his assistants with him is not ideal. 

InvictaSaint

InvictaSaint

Posted
Posted
  On 25/06/2023 at 11:33, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Well the fact he hasn’t been able (as of yet) to bring his assistants with him is not ideal. 

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Possibly. But again, they [his coaching staff] can all resign and then they are free to take up new roles. Which is what I imagine will happen. Or we move on to other people. Either way, I can't imagine it will drag on any longer than it needs to. 

  • Like 1
Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
  On 25/06/2023 at 12:50, InvictaSaint said:

Possibly. But again, they [his coaching staff] can all resign and then they are free to take up new roles. Which is what I imagine will happen. Or we move on to other people. Either way, I can't imagine it will drag on any longer than it needs to. 

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Can they though ?

I know this is football and subject to it’s own procedures and contracts, but you’d have thought their existing contracts are subject to notice periods, or specific terms relating to moving on. 

  • Like 1
manji

manji

Posted
Posted
  On 25/06/2023 at 11:13, Weston Super Saint said:

Article is behind a pay wall so I can't read it.

What 'staff were kept in the dark' is the article on about?  It's hardly been the best kept secret in the world....

Expand  

It’s over dramatised click bait. Sadly too many are keen to jump on a mediocre story like that. I mean Jason Wilcox contract starts on July 1st.

FFS are they suggesting he hasn’t been doing anything ? Maybe his phone lines and internet have been disconnected until then.

Dusic

Dusic

Posted
Posted
  On 25/06/2023 at 20:35, Mr Saints said:

Heard Mark Warburton will be on the coaching staff, recently left West Ham.

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If correct would be a good addition, has a lot of Championship experience as a mnager and is known to be a good coach.

That said, would be a little suprised as pretty sure Martin will be bringing in his guys.

Osvaldorama

Osvaldorama

Posted
Posted
  On 25/06/2023 at 08:23, bpsaint said:

Scummy from us in my humble opinion. If we really wanted him then pay the compensation and do it the right way. It’s peanuts compared to the £18 mill we wasted on that donkey Tall Paul.

Expand  

Your humble opinion is incredibly wrong to be fair. 
 

500k is still a lot of money. We are a championship club. He signed after we were relegated. Swansea can fuck off 

  • Like 3
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
  On 25/06/2023 at 23:10, Osvaldorama said:

Your humble opinion is incredibly wrong to be fair. 
 

500k is still a lot of money. We are a championship club. He signed after we were relegated. Swansea can fuck off 

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At last! Someone who has obviously seen the small print of his Swansea contract and can comment with authority. Thank you kind sir :)

  • Haha 1
Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
  On 25/06/2023 at 08:23, bpsaint said:

Scummy from us in my humble opinion. If we really wanted him then pay the compensation and do it the right way. It’s peanuts compared to the £18 mill we wasted on that donkey Tall Paul.

Expand  

I disagree.  We’re a Championship club, not a Premier League one.

Swansea are taking the piss.

  • Like 1
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted

There's another Athletic article about Martin and his style today. Is it just me or was there a lot less focus on our style of play last time we were in the championship? I don't recall big in depth conversations about Adkins and his philosophy, we just seemed to get in a load of really good players, have them a few years to gel together and then let them do their thing. I'm not sure if such a focus on our style that we seem to have will not be quite restrictive. Can't we just adapt as the situation is required? 

  • Like 1
JRM

JRM

Posted
Posted
  On 25/06/2023 at 20:59, Dusic said:

If correct would be a good addition, has a lot of Championship experience as a mnager and is known to be a good coach.

That said, would be a little suprised as pretty sure Martin will be bringing in his guys.

Expand  

Would be a very good addition if that's correct, brings lots of experience 

SaintsFan86

SaintsFan86

Posted
Posted
  On 26/06/2023 at 08:34, DT said:

If he's only playing 8 outfield players like that image suggests we are in BIG trouble

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Well the CBs are slightly further back, just shows the shape RM likes to set up in.

Interesting how narrow the fbs are in this shape, My only concern with the article is potentially the discouragement from our flair players like Sulemana and Edozie to take players on.

beatlesaint

beatlesaint

Posted
Posted (edited)

Having read that Athletic article I can just imagine people shouting "get the fkin ball forward" after about 10 mins of the first home game 🤣 

Edited by beatlesaint
  • Haha 6
SaintsFan86

SaintsFan86

Posted
Posted
  On 26/06/2023 at 09:14, beatlesaint said:

Having read that Athletic article I can just imagine people shouting "get the fkin ball forward" after about 10 mins of the first home game 🤣 

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The irony wouldn't be lost on me, After the fans hounded out Nathan Jones with this type of football. 🤣

  • Haha 1
The Curse of St Mary's

The Curse of St Mary's

Posted
Posted
  On 26/06/2023 at 09:17, SaintsFan86 said:

The irony wouldn't be lost on me, After the fans hounded out Nathan Jones with this type of football. 🤣

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There is a big difference in getting the ball forward under Jones than say under Martin. People ideally want to see nice football but with an actual attacking purpose and ambition rather than mind numbing passes that go nowhere other than backwards/sideways 

Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
  On 25/06/2023 at 20:35, Mr Saints said:

Heard Mark Warburton will be on the coaching staff, recently left West Ham.

Expand  

would have worked with Rassmus at Brentford, i'd assume... but didn't he get the boot from Brentford due to disagreements in recruitment (i.e stats over old fashion scouting)..

Also, think he could easily get another manager job in the champ / L1. In short, I can't see it 

 

revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted
  On 26/06/2023 at 08:11, hypochondriac said:

There's another Athletic article about Martin and his style today. Is it just me or was there a lot less focus on our style of play last time we were in the championship? I don't recall big in depth conversations about Adkins and his philosophy, we just seemed to get in a load of really good players, have them a few years to gel together and then let them do their thing. I'm not sure if such a focus on our style that we seem to have will not be quite restrictive. Can't we just adapt as the situation is required? 

Expand  

Trust the process etc etc.  You're right though - I don't recall a particular emphasis on philosophy under Adkins apart from making sure the players worked hard ("Hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard enough").

This is a worry for me as well and I mentioned it when we appointed Martin.  I'd rather we had a flexible manager who came in, looked at the players and came up with a system and style that got the best out of what's available and then adapted to suit the opposition.  It sounds like Martin is more of a dogmatic coach that will insist upon a specific style regardless of the playing staff and their various attributes.  For one thing it'll lead to us becoming predictable which is never a good thing.

 

  • Like 2
Nolan

Nolan

Posted
Posted
  On 26/06/2023 at 09:28, Dman said:

would have worked with Rassmus at Brentford, i'd assume... but didn't he get the boot from Brentford due to disagreements in recruitment (i.e stats over old fashion scouting)..

Also, think he could easily get another manager job in the champ / L1. In short, I can't see it 

 

Expand  

Rasmus Came in as Warburton was going out.

Rasmus apointed DoF on 16/05/2015

Warburton was told his Contract wouldnt be renewed February 2015 but completed the season with Brentford

  • Like 1
Fan The Flames

Fan The Flames

Posted
Posted
  On 26/06/2023 at 09:44, revolution saint said:

Trust the process etc etc.  You're right though - I don't recall a particular emphasis on philosophy under Adkins apart from making sure the players worked hard ("Hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard enough").

This is a worry for me as well and I mentioned it when we appointed Martin.  I'd rather we had a flexible manager who came in, looked at the players and came up with a system and style that got the best out of what's available and then adapted to suit the opposition.  It sounds like Martin is more of a dogmatic coach that will insist upon a specific style regardless of the playing staff and their various attributes.  For one thing it'll lead to us becoming predictable which is never a good thing.

 

Expand  

A good coach can do both. They will have their preferred style, but also can play a way that suits the current crop, whilst transistioning to the prefered style.

  • Like 1
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
  On 26/06/2023 at 09:44, revolution saint said:

Trust the process etc etc.  You're right though - I don't recall a particular emphasis on philosophy under Adkins apart from making sure the players worked hard ("Hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard enough").

This is a worry for me as well and I mentioned it when we appointed Martin.  I'd rather we had a flexible manager who came in, looked at the players and came up with a system and style that got the best out of what's available and then adapted to suit the opposition.  It sounds like Martin is more of a dogmatic coach that will insist upon a specific style regardless of the playing staff and their various attributes.  For one thing it'll lead to us becoming predictable which is never a good thing.

 

Expand  

Yep. The thing is that someone like City can just play how they want to play all the time because their squad quality and depth are vastly superior to everyone else so no one can stop them. If you're a smaller club with less resources and quality like us then you're going to have to change as the circumstances do and you inevitably come up against better players. One of the most frustrating things about Ralph was his lack of a plan B. Weirdly whilst seeking a completely different style of play, we may encounter those same problems once again. 

Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted

Warburton would be a genuinely superb addition at this level btw, give Martin a proper, experienced number 2 and sounding board. He’s sixty now so might not fancy another full-on managerial post. Let’s hope that this particular rumour has some legs. 

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
  On 26/06/2023 at 09:51, Fan The Flames said:

A good coach can do both. They will have their preferred style, but also can play a way that suits the current crop, whilst transistioning to the prefered style.

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From what we've read, Is Martin capable of doing that? I'm not sure we have time to transition to a new style, we need the style in place and ready to go for the start of the season. 

  • Like 1
revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted
  On 26/06/2023 at 09:51, Fan The Flames said:

A good coach can do both. They will have their preferred style, but also can play a way that suits the current crop, whilst transistioning to the prefered style.

Expand  

Yeah, and hopefully that's the case.  Just don't want to be in a position where we're insisting on playing out from the back (for example) but lack the quality of player to be any good at doing that.

  • Like 1

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