Russell Martin

[goodymatt]

  On 22/06/2023 at 12:51, Saint Fan CaM said:

But you see that's my point - everyone is pinning hopes on his previous stats with a different set of players in a different club set-up.  Going forwards he's got a different set of problems to overcome, not least a demoralised relegated squad which is in danger of losing its best most influential players in Lavia, JWP and so on.  Despite the fact that financially we're in a better place than our previous relegation to the Championship, this feels like it has the potential to go the same way in terms of squad improvement, bearing in mind that the bloated squad of recent times has been a shambles and needed significant strengthening.  And I don't buy the argument that the Championship demands lesser quality - obviously it demands performances of Premiership quality to enable promotion.

So my question remains - in the shadow of our best players leaving, how will Russell Martin and his team achieve the stated aim of the Club which is immediate promotion?  What attributes does he have to match the demands of our club and 1st team squad?  His style of football appears to be more of the slow and predictable type of game we've become so bored with, so getting supporters on-side will not be an easy task.  Why did the defensive side of his game fail at Swansea and will that hurt us given we've suffered a poor defensive record ourselves in the past?

You could argue that he's re-built failing squads in the past, however that's been at a level lower than Saints aspirations and ultimately those teams have not really stood out as exceptionally good.  You could argue that he's got Championship experience which is a definite plus, however the task ahead of him cannot be underestimated.  Expectations run high and when things go wrong like they did for Jones, will he crack under the pressure?

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I agree that there are unknowns as to how well he will do with a different squad and higher expectations. The same would apply for any manager taking a new role.

At this moment, it isn’t clear what our strongest 11 is going to be. What is clear is that we have backed a manager with potential, a clear identity and consistent stats over 2 former clubs that suggest we will have more possession and shots on goal than our opponents.

It’s now up to him to deliver on this opportunity and hopefully Mowbray/Wilcox/Ankerson give him better tools to do that than he has ever had before. If they do, we will find out if the lack of resources in the past is why his teams conceded more than they should have statistically or if it’s down to playing too much around his own box. 

Edited 22 June, 2023 by goodymatt

[Saint Fan CaM]

  On 22/06/2023 at 10:31, jayrivers said:

Yes, if we end up selling 

Bednerak

ABK

Salisu

Perraud

KWP

Aribo

Orsic

Djnepo

Lavia

JWP

Adams

Onaucho

Stu A

Tella

 

Already gone is Ely and Walcott

 

That seems to be the likely list of players that are going, we might end up keeping one or two... That should give us something in the region of over £150m. Obviously there are areas to fill financially, but buying 8 players with a mix of youth and experience for this league seems about right for me. 

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You've missed from that list Stephens, DCC, Edozie, Mara, Sulemana, Alcarez and a number of youth such as Ballard who made it into the first team on occasion.  There's nothing to suggest any of these players will stay or leave - so that's one hell of a bloated squad full of mediocrity with 3-4 stand out individuals who will be sold if offers come in (only Lavia appears to be getting solid interest, but at this point no offer).

[Saint Fan CaM]

  On 22/06/2023 at 12:59, goodymatt said:

I agree that there are unknowns as to how well he will do with a different squad and higher expectations. The same would apply for any manager taking a new role.

At this moment, it isn’t clear what our strongest 11 is going to be. What is clear is that we have backed a manager with potential, a clear identity and consistent stats over 2 former clubs that suggest we will have more possession and shots on goal than our opponents.

It’s now up to him to deliver on this opportunity and hopefully Mowbray/Wilcox/Ankerson give him better tools to do that than he has ever had before. If they do, we will find out if the lack of resources in the past is why his teams conceded more than they should have statistically or if it’s down to playing too much around his own box. 

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Yes, I think we agree that there is one specific that will go a long way to determine success or otherwise and that is he gets the backing of the Board to re-build the squad to a high standard and one that exceeds the squad of last season.  Trying to emulate Swansea will just not cut it.

[Dig Dig]

Guessing he is still on holiday to have not had any official pics/interviews? 

For what it’s worth, I think we’ve placed our faith in someone who we expect can do far more with greater resources and backing and is seen to have over performed to date,  relative to what he’s had available. 

Time will always tell but he seems like a good guy and someone who will put everything into it without any baggage or ego.

 

[goodymatt]

Jobi McAnuff thinks we will be a good watch under Russell Martin, but he needs to convert that to ‘winning football’.

Edited 22 June, 2023 by goodymatt

[goodymatt]

We will certainly be spending more than this!

[Holmes_and_Watson]

  On 22/06/2023 at 13:25, goodymatt said:

We will certainly be spending more than this!

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I'm glad Martin has a recruitment team around him. I'd worry about him stepping up to squander funds at the level we've managed to do. 🙂

[Mr X]

Still struggling the see how SR think this is the man for us, what about his record says it's a good fit for us? What has he actually achieved? I guess beggars can't be choosers though and there wouldn't have been many people queuing up to manage us, again like Jones such an uninspired appointment though 

[Give it to Ron]

  On 22/06/2023 at 14:28, Mr X said:

Still struggling the see how SR think this is the man for us, what about his record says it's a good fit for us? What has he actually achieved? I guess beggars can't be choosers though and there wouldn't have been many people queuing up to manage us, again like Jones such an uninspired appointment though 

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Leicester and Leeds fans I know saying exactly same about their choices too. 
All agree Lampard/Gerrard are to be avoided .

Leeds looking at Farke who I am unconvinced by.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 22/06/2023 at 09:41, miserableoldgit said:

Has he actually given an interview yet? Can't find a video anywhere....

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You only need to scan through this thread to find out the expectations some people have on our new manager before the season starts!

If he were to take all of them on, I reckon it will be Christmas before he gets time to squeeze in a short interview.

[skintsaint]

  On 22/06/2023 at 14:31, Give it to Ron said:

Leeds looking at Farke who I am unconvinced by.

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Won this league twice with Norwich.

[Convict Colony]

  On 22/06/2023 at 14:28, Mr X said:

Still struggling the see how SR think this is the man for us, what about his record says it's a good fit for us? What has he actually achieved? I guess beggars can't be choosers though and there wouldn't have been many people queuing up to manage us, again like Jones such an uninspired appointment though 

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To be fair I am sure they have looked into it a bit more than us given its their money at stake - if they are prepared to make this move then I am fully happy to get behind them as I agree our existing formation got found out with the players we had a while ago.

 

[Mr X]

  On 22/06/2023 at 14:31, Give it to Ron said:

Leicester and Leeds fans I know saying exactly same about their choices too. 
All agree Lampard/Gerrard are to be avoided .

Leeds looking at Farke who I am unconvinced by.

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Russell Martins credentials aren't any better than Nathan Jones if we are honest so why are we repeating the same mistake?  maybe he isn't a complete pyschopath like Jones though 

[Dman]

  On 22/06/2023 at 14:31, Give it to Ron said:

Leicester and Leeds fans I know saying exactly same about their choices too. 
All agree Lampard/Gerrard are to be avoided .

Leeds looking at Farke who I am unconvinced by.

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Farke is way more qualified than Martin, especially at this level. 

Martin is a big risk - Farke wouldn't be. 

[Give it to Ron]

  On 22/06/2023 at 14:51, Dman said:

Farke is way more qualified than Martin, especially at this level. 

Martin is a big risk - Farke wouldn't be. 

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So why did Norwich sack him?

[Rivers]

Oh, he's finally been announced then. Outstanding.

Sorry for the delayed welcome Russell, but if I'd held my breath any longer I'd be fucking dead. 

Obviously somewhat of a "meh" appointment at first glance, but let's be clear about something, it is a world away from the obvious clusterfuck of appointing Nathan fucking Jones as your masterstroke of genius to get you out of a Premier League relegation dogfight.

 

Sure, you look at this, and quite rightfully conclude there are a number of more experienced and potentially more exciting "names" we could have looked to and hopefully attracted to a Club of our stature, with a large budget for an immediate promotion push.

And of course, knowing us, and especially Sport Replublic's previous exemplary judgement where it comes to identifying the right manager for the right time, it could just as likely end in disaster. It's The Southampton Way, and we're  extremely relaxed about it.

But, this doesn't quite have the same clearly obvious "OH MY FUCKING GOD, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING YOU STUPID CUNTS!?!?!" vibe about it that Mad Nate had.

With the right departures and investments, it could actually work out.

Russell Martin enjoyed a much higher profile football career than our last no mark lower league appointment, and we are after all, a Champioship Club ourselves now, so our own stock has fallen, especially with the manner of our Premier League demise. A lot of of our preferred candidates could very well have take one look a Sport Republic and used someone else's bargepole to distance themselves from us as quickly as possible.

I like to see us playing proper possession football. Not knocking it around interminably at the back, but rather,  high intensity probing keep ball in the opposition's half, penning them in, and surgically carving them open when the time is right.

Hopefully, Russell Martin will bring more of the latter.

At any rate, until our first defeat, he'll have my full and unequivocal  support.

 

Edited 22 June, 2023 by Rivers
Missed out a word

[Dman]

  On 22/06/2023 at 15:04, Give it to Ron said:

So why did Norwich sack him?

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Great logic Ron, well done. To be fair, they've been flying since he left, haven't they. 

[CB Fry]

  On 22/06/2023 at 15:04, Give it to Ron said:

So why did Norwich sack him?

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Farke did get promoted twice from the Championship before that though. And he was sacked as a Premier League manager, not a Championship one.

Or does being sacked invalidate your entire career now?

Edited 22 June, 2023 by CB Fry

[Dman]

  On 22/06/2023 at 15:35, CB Fry said:

Farke did get promoted twice from the Championship before that though.

Or does being sacked invalidate your entire career now?

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The reason they sacked him was because they thought that Dean Smith would give them a better chance of staying up - He didn't and they've been largely shite ever since. 

I'd be much happier going into the season with Farke than I am Martin. 

[notnowcato]

Fuck me, many on here are forgetting to add the “hope to be proven wrong” ending to their Paxman like questioning of SR and the credentials of RM. 

Truth is no one really knows, the success or failure of this coming season won’t just be down to RM. 

[Give it to Ron]

  On 22/06/2023 at 15:35, CB Fry said:

Farke did get promoted twice from the Championship before that though. And he was sacked as a Premier League manager, not a Championship one.

Or does being sacked invalidate your entire career now?

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Nope just I don’t think he would be a fit here at all . 
At least it’s not Smith who I don’t rate at all.

Some managers just click look at Howe I never saw that working after Burnley.

Farke just doesn’t inspire me a bit like Martin but it’s done now so will just get on with it  but then again nor did Strachan look how great that was.

[Give it to Ron]

  On 22/06/2023 at 15:31, Dman said:

Great logic Ron, well done. To be fair, they've been flying since he left, haven't they. 

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So by your logic we have a manager that gets promoted but has failed before once we get there? So do we sack him then?

At least with Martin he has a clean slate hopefully this will work. It’s all down to how we recruit isn’t it who stays and who goes that’s my biggest concern shifting the shite we have for fees loans out are useless for us.

Edited 22 June, 2023 by Give it to Ron

[Convict Colony]

I follow Monchengladbach and Farke did not do a good job with the squad he had there - last 1 season and then was fired.

If Leeds get Farke i would be very happy.

 

[aintforever]

I don't have huge expectations but he did get Swansea a few points from the play-offs and they seem to be in a world of shit finance wise. In theory his possession style should work much better with higher quality players (I know all styles should but it may just click with a more skilled team).

 

 

[adrian lord]

Managerial career outcomes thus far: mid table. 

[Thereisonlyonemickychannon]

Apparently he is a Buddhist. 

Good karma there!

Good luck Mr Martin

[Yorkshire Saint]

He has my support albeit with similar concerns to others. But what bothers me is, if he was such a hot choice ... why didn't we go for him over Jones. Especially as he was close to the sack at Christmas. 

[CSA96]

  On 22/06/2023 at 18:38, Yorkshire Saint said:

He has my support albeit with similar concerns to others. But what bothers me is, if he was such a hot choice ... why didn't we go for him over Jones. Especially as he was close to the sack at Christmas. 

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To be fair to the board, they have explained this already. Multiple times.

They felt that, looking at the issues of the squad mid-season, we needed to toughen up, get a coach with a track record of making his teams compact and defensively sound and quickly improve our set-piece ability in a league where we were scrapping against the odds and had players for a reactive style of play (after years of counter-pressing with Ralph). Jones had done those things, albeit at a lower level.

We are now in a lower division where we have one of the largest set of resources (alongside Leeds, Leicester etc) and therefore we are not scrapping against clubs much bigger and more well-resourced than us, so we want to dominate games and be more proactive - which is what they like about Martin's approach.

Being in the off-season also gives them a chance to reset and adjust the squad and culture in a way that you cannot mid-season.

Edited 22 June, 2023 by CSA96

[stknowle]

  On 22/06/2023 at 16:32, Convict Colony said:

I follow Monchengladbach and Farke did not do a good job with the squad he had there - last 1 season and then was fired.

If Leeds get Farke i would be very happy.

 

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Anyone done 'Farke off to Leeds' yet?

[Wade Garrett]

Fuck Farke.

We’re going to destroy the Championship with Russell Martin’s red and white army.

Farke!  Fuck off.

[Badger]

  On 22/06/2023 at 17:01, aintforever said:

I don't have huge expectations but he did get Swansea a few points from the play-offs and they seem to be in a world of shit finance wise. In theory his possession style should work much better with higher quality players (I know all styles should but it may just click with a more skilled team).

 

 

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At the moment though we can’t be sure he will have higher quality players available to him.

A lot to be done in securing the squad we/he needs 

[Miltonaggro]

  On 22/06/2023 at 18:50, Wade Garrett said:

Fuck Farke.

We’re going to destroy the Championship with Russell Martin’s red and white army.

Farke!  Fuck off.

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Absolutely this, get Farked, you Farking, Farkewit!

[Yorkshire Saint]

  On 22/06/2023 at 18:46, CSA96 said:

To be fair to the board, they have explained this already. Multiple times.

They felt that, looking at the issues of the squad mid-season, we needed to toughen up, get a coach with a track record of making his teams compact and defensively sound and quickly improve our set-piece ability in a league where we were scrapping against the odds and had players for a reactive style of play (after years of counter-pressing with Ralph). Jones had done those things, albeit at a lower level.

We are now in a lower division where we have one of the largest set of resources (alongside Leeds, Leicester etc) and therefore we are not scrapping against clubs much bigger and more well-resourced than us, so we want to dominate games and be more proactive - which is what they like about Martin's approach.

Being in the off-season also gives them a chance to reset and adjust the squad and culture in a way that you cannot mid-season.

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Thats fair 👌 👏 

[Dark Munster]

  On 22/06/2023 at 18:46, CSA96 said:

To be fair to the board, they have explained this already. Multiple times.

They felt that, looking at the issues of the squad mid-season, we needed to toughen up, get a coach with a track record of making his teams compact and defensively sound and quickly improve our set-piece ability in a league where we were scrapping against the odds and had players for a reactive style of play (after years of counter-pressing with Ralph). Jones had done those things, albeit at a lower level.

We are now in a lower division where we have one of the largest set of resources (alongside Leeds, Leicester etc) and therefore we are not scrapping against clubs much bigger and more well-resourced than us, so we want to dominate games and be more proactive - which is what they like about Martin's approach.

Being in the off-season also gives them a chance to reset and adjust the squad and culture in a way that you cannot mid-season.

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The can try to explain it as many times as they like, until they are blue in the face. But it doesn't change the fact that it was bleeding obvious to anyone with half a brain that he was an appallingly bad choice (no hindsight required), and it shows they (looking at you in particular, Rasmus W. Ankersen) haven't a clue how to run a football club (at least the footballing part of one).

[CSA96]

  On 22/06/2023 at 23:43, Dark Munster said:

The can try to explain it as many times as they like, until they are blue in the face. But it doesn't change the fact that it was bleeding obvious to anyone with half a brain that he was an appallingly bad choice (no hindsight required), and it shows they (looking at you in particular, Rasmus W. Ankersen) haven't a clue how to run a football club (at least the footballing part of one).

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Oh I don't disagree at all. Diabolical choice and an awful, awful fit - but I understand the shift in approach that means they wouldn't have gone for Martin mid-season in the PL but they would before pre-season of a Championship campaign.

[Doctoroncall]

  On 23/06/2023 at 01:56, CSA96 said:

Oh I don't disagree at all. Diabolical choice and an awful, awful fit - but I understand the shift in approach that means they wouldn't have gone for Martin mid-season in the PL but they would before pre-season of a Championship campaign.

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The World Cup break was similar in number of weeks to the end of season break now.

Edited 23 June, 2023 by Doctoroncall
.

[Weston Super Saint]

FFS - over 24 hours in charge now and no sign of any players being bought or sold despite everyone insisting he had to start straight away to get it sorted.

[beatlesaint]

  On 23/06/2023 at 08:29, Weston Super Saint said:

FFS - over 24 hours in charge now and no sign of any players being bought or sold despite everyone insisting he had to start straight away to get it sorted.

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In all seriousness I had hoped some signings would have been in the building for the first day of pre-season. 

My concern is RM will start installing his tactics and playing methods into last seasons bunch of losers and by the time we get to the first game then the close of the transfer window the squad will have altered completely and we are back at square one. 

Edited 23 June, 2023 by beatlesaint

[Dman]

  On 22/06/2023 at 15:59, Give it to Ron said:

So by your logic we have a manager that gets promoted but has failed before once we get there? So do we sack him then?

At least with Martin he has a clean slate hopefully this will work. It’s all down to how we recruit isn’t it who stays and who goes that’s my biggest concern shifting the shite we have for fees loans out are useless for us.

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Martin has shown absolutely nothing to suggest he is a manager capable of promoting a side from L1 or the championship. Farke has done that. 

One step at a time - Get us up, then worry about what happens when we're up there.

Martin is just SR trying to be smart... again. 

[Give it to Ron]

  On 23/06/2023 at 10:43, Dman said:

Martin has shown absolutely nothing to suggest he is a manager capable of promoting a side from L1 or the championship. Farke has done that. 

One step at a time - Get us up, then worry about what happens when we're up there.

Martin is just SR trying to be smart... again. 

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Can’t argue with your SR comments because that’s how I feel too. Nothing learnt and we are putting all our eggs in the basket of Wilcox who has only looked after academy level that’s my concern as well but we will see. 
Next month with squad will tell. I like the recruitment of Darren Mowbray good record 

Edited 23 June, 2023 by Give it to Ron

[Dark Munster]

  On 23/06/2023 at 10:43, Dman said:

Martin has shown absolutely nothing to suggest he is a manager capable of promoting a side from L1 or the championship. Farke has done that. 

One step at a time - Get us up, then worry about what happens when we're up there.

Martin is just SR trying to be smart... again. 

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Yep. He can't be as bad as Jones, mainly because we are playing against weaker teams (even Jones did ok at this level, FFS). Plus as a player he played at a decent level, unlike the tosser from the small Welsh village with a PE teacher's whistle in his mouth. So that can help getting respect from the players.

All signs are that he can take us to mid table mediocrity, but not much higher. Which is great for PL, but nowhere near what we want now, of course. 

[InvictaSaint]

Am I the only one who finds it odd that we’ve had no photos of Martin at SMS or Staplewood and no video interview? Just a very beige puff piece with stock photos  introducing him as our new manager. Normally you get the fanfare and scarf held aloft. But with Martin, nothing. Very strange.

[The Cat]

  On 23/06/2023 at 20:43, InvictaSaint said:

Am I the only one who finds it odd that we’ve had no photos of Martin at SMS or Staplewood and no video interview? Just a very beige puff piece with stock photos  introducing him as our new manager. Normally you get the fanfare and scarf held aloft. But with Martin, nothing. Very strange.

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I'm guessing they haven't filmed it yet, or if they have it's still being edited and wrapped for media release.

The original article was likely something knocked out as soon as they could because they knew everyone had been waiting ages for the announcement.

[Dark Munster]

  On 23/06/2023 at 20:43, InvictaSaint said:

Am I the only one who finds it odd that we’ve had no photos of Martin at SMS or Staplewood and no video interview? Just a very beige puff piece with stock photos  introducing him as our new manager. Normally you get the fanfare and scarf held aloft. But with Martin, nothing. Very strange.

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Maybe they are worried about the ridicule they'll get from those photos or videos, in a few months time, if he turns out to be as bad as their previous two disastrous appointments.

[InvictaSaint]

  On 23/06/2023 at 20:50, The Cat said:

I'm guessing they haven't filmed it yet, or if they have it's still being edited and wrapped for media release.

The original article was likely something knocked out as soon as they could because they knew everyone had been waiting ages for the announcement.

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Yes, possibly. But look at Maresca’s appointment at Leicester - photos, presser, videos - the whole shebang. Us - nothing. Just seems a bit odd to me. 

[CB Fry]

At least we can now completely write off Leeds promotion bid for 23/24.

Already we know that

a) they haven't appointed a manager

b) they haven't done a video montage of new manager at training ground

So too little, too late for Leeds and their season is write off already. Their fanbase must be fuming.

That is right lads? We are going to judge all the other clubs on our own mental standards correct?

[InvictaSaint]

  On 24/06/2023 at 06:43, CB Fry said:

At least we can now completely write off Leeds promotion bid for 23/24.

Already we know that

a) they haven't appointed a manager

b) they haven't done a video montage of new manager at training ground

So too little, too late for Leeds and their season is write off already. Their fanbase must be fuming.

That is right lads? We are going to judge all the other clubs on our own mental standards correct?

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Can’t speak to a) and not really sure where that’s come from. If your sarcasm is directed at me for b), apologies for simply raising on - oh my god! - a football forum the reasonable question around the lack of photos and videos that in 99% of managerial appointments are generally a thing. Not writing anything or anyone off. As I said, I just find the absence of said element perplexing. But don’t fret; I shan’t let it spoil my day. 

[HarvSFC]

Anyone know when pre-season starts? A few clubs in the league went back yesterday.

[CSA96]

 

[bugenhagen]

  On 24/06/2023 at 05:58, InvictaSaint said:

Yes, possibly. But look at Maresca’s appointment at Leicester - photos, presser, videos - the whole shebang. Us - nothing. Just seems a bit odd to me. 

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I wouldn't think too much of it. We can either speculate that something is rotten in Denmark, or that what has been released was done so in a hurry to calm the nerves of the Saints forum warriors... Probably it's nothing to it. They have just planned it a different way.