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Russell Martin


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3 minutes ago, Cabrone said:

To get into the automatic promotion spots this season you'd have needed 2 points per game, 2 wins out of 3 over 46 games is a huge challenge.

A passive manager is not going to cut it IMO. We need to be positive and aggressive and play on the front foot from the start. Not sure this guy fits the bill.

Selles certainly doesn't, no offence but he's not going to get us out of this league. He needs to go.

Are you Nathan ?!?

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36 minutes ago, davefizzy14 said:

Surely has to be someone who is a big name who can instantly command the respect of the squad and us the fans. Gerrard, Vieira etc. 

I see this argument being made a lot, but it doesn't really hold up IMO. Just because someone was a decent op level player doesn't automatically mean they will be a successful manager.

Lampard had a superb reputation as a player but he didn't 'command the respect' of the squad at Everton. Far from it. He was aloof, distant, and didn't even attend most training sessions. 

On the flip side, nobody knew anything about Adkins when we appointed him, but he instantly got the players and fans on board and was a huge success for us.

Appointing a manager just because they are a big name from their playing days is just idiotic, and absolutely not the right way to go about this appointment.

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45 minutes ago, bugenhagen said:

Know nothing of the guy, so have little to add to this, other than it does indicate that the playbook is leaving, which I am very happy about!

The playbook which helped the u23s win their league and the u18s reach the youth cup semis where they were beaten by the eventual winners.

The first team have been dreadful, but thats almost certainly due to the quick turnover of managers/ideas, and not necessarily the playbook

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1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

Out of interest, what in particular do we know about Wilcox in this regard?

Well I think it was stated in a recent athletic article that he intends to bring a heavy possession based philosophy. Which is massively needed by the way because it’s something we’ve neglected for a while now. But also his body of work suggests this too. His teams at City played this way and he was promoted from within a few times which suggests his views aligned with City as a whole and they trusted him to implement that. I’d be surprised if he comes here and tells us his technically good teams he helped develop at City were all against his views.

Pretty sure there is a podcast or two about with him on too which might be worth a listen. 

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I'm a little bit worried about the idea of choosing a manager based on their average percentage possession stats.

Leicester won the Prem with something like 40% possession, who gives a fuck what the possession stats are, it's only results that matter.

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54 minutes ago, Cabrone said:

To get into the automatic promotion spots this season you'd have needed 2 points per game, 2 wins out of 3 over 46 games is a huge challenge.

A passive manager is not going to cut it IMO. We need to be positive and aggressive and play on the front foot from the start. Not sure this guy fits the bill.

Selles certainly doesn't, no offence but he's not going to get us out of this league. He needs to go.

If ONLY there was a manager available that fitted the bill....

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19 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

The playbook which helped the u23s win their league and the u18s reach the youth cup semis where they were beaten by the eventual winners.

The first team have been dreadful, but thats almost certainly due to the quick turnover of managers/ideas, and not necessarily the playbook

I think too much was made of the playbook anyway.  It's fine to have a philosophy, and most managers do, but it's always going to be compromised by individual player attributes such as talent, stamina, speed etc etc as well as the opposition.  If you have something so dictatorial and precise then you become predictable and dull to watch.  The best managers will adjust according to circumstances - it doesn't need a particularly prescriptive playbook.

Besides which I quite like the idea of players having a bit of license to express themselves albeit within an overarching philosophy. 

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2 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

I think too much was made of the playbook anyway.  It's fine to have a philosophy, and most managers do, but it's always going to be compromised by individual player attributes such as talent, stamina, speed etc etc as well as the opposition.  If you have something so dictatorial and precise then you become predictable and dull to watch.  The best managers will adjust according to circumstances - it doesn't need a particularly prescriptive playbook.

Besides which I quite like the idea of players having a bit of license to express themselves albeit within an overarching philosophy. 

You need to sign players to suit your philosophy. 
 

We haven’t, it’s why we’re shit. 
 

Brighton are a fantastic example of signing ‘system players’

Edited by Dman
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11 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I'm a little bit worried about the idea of choosing a manager based on their average percentage possession stats.

Leicester won the Prem with something like 40% possession, who gives a fuck what the possession stats are, it's only results that matter.

Yes it’s what you do with the ball that matters and having a goal scorer considerably helps,  citing Leicester, a counter attacking team for that season isn’t a reason to discount possession based tactics as generally teams with more possession are more likely to win. 

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26 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Well I think it was stated in a recent athletic article that he intends to bring a heavy possession based philosophy. Which is massively needed by the way because it’s something we’ve neglected for a while now. But also his body of work suggests this too. His teams at City played this way and he was promoted from within a few times which suggests his views aligned with City as a whole and they trusted him to implement that. I’d be surprised if he comes here and tells us his technically good teams he helped develop at City were all against his views.

Pretty sure there is a podcast or two about with him on too which might be worth a listen. 

Obviously Man City are way above anyone else when it comes to ball retention but they do it with a purpose. Last night I noticed that they would look for a forward pass by default and the movement with and without the ball was exceptional. Obviously you need very good players to do it but clearly they are supremely well coached as they know each others game telepathically almost. 

Having more of the ball means you tire less easily which makes sense for the championship which is Tues >Sat>Tues quite often. However I don't want to see meaningless passing around the back. It has to be with an attacking mindset. I'm not sure these players have it in him as they have been coached risk averse football for so long now. Will they listen and be onboard with an unknown manager from Swansea or anyone else from similar background? 

 

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1 hour ago, bugenhagen said:

Know nothing of the guy, so have little to add to this, other than it does indicate that the playbook is leaving, which I am very happy about!

As others have said, you need to be agressive in this to get the required points. We will not get promoted playing more of this possession heavy nonsense and Dmpossibky even rasmus' beloved 5 at the back. I would much prefer a 4-2-2-2 or formation that entails more direct and attacking play myself. One of our biggest issues has been that we abandoned our high press attacking style when SR came in... That and squad / first 11 quality has declined repeatedly. 

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9 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

As others have said, you need to be agressive in this to get the required points. We will not get promoted playing more of this possession heavy nonsense and Dmpossibky even rasmus' beloved 5 at the back. I would much prefer a 4-2-2-2 or formation that entails more direct and attacking play myself. One of our biggest issues has been that we abandoned our high press attacking style when SR came in... That and squad / first 11 quality has declined repeatedly. 

What a load of crap, the 4-2-2-2 got sussed two years ago and the rigid way we stick to it makes us very easy to play against, unless we get hazard and De Brune to play the number 10s then we create nothing and leave big gaps at the back.

Need to ditch this and the playbook and be more adaptive.

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On 16/05/2023 at 23:50, CB Fry said:

We've got more money than them.

Sheffield Wednesday are a big club, Derby and Blackburn won the league, Sunderland have a huge stadium etc etc etc but so what, we will have more resources and prestige than them next season.

But we need to get back up before the parachute money goes because that will soon wear off.

Yeah exactly this, I’m not pretending we’re bigger then Sheff Wed etc… infact I don’t want to get into a club size argument that nobody other than fans give much of a fuck about

We are a freshly relegated Prem side with good pedigree, backed by wealthy owners with ambitions (but arguably zero sense)

In that case, we carry a decent stature, but like CB said we need to capitalise on that within 2 years

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1 hour ago, Doctoroncall said:

Yes it’s what you do with the ball that matters and having a goal scorer considerably helps,  citing Leicester, a counter attacking team for that season isn’t a reason to discount possession based tactics as generally teams with more possession are more likely to win. 

Except 8 of the 9 teams that finished above Swansea had less possession.

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This playbook is a load of old pony. City & teams like that can have a playbook because they have better players than everyone else. They can continue to play the same way, safe in the knowledge the opposition won’t be able to counter it no matter what they do. We need to be flexible, clever, surprise teams. If they’ve got mincers at the back, get it in the mixer. If they’ve got a couple of pirates at centre half, play a false 9, or a nippy front man. If they’re good on the counter, sit back, if they don’t like being pressed, press them. What’s this obsession with playing “our” way. My advice to the new man would be, have a balanced squad, watch the opposition (as in scouting) and then adjust tactically to them.
 

You clearly have to have a defensive framework, but then tweak that depending on circumstances. Despite its dinosaur reputation, 4-4-2 lends its self to quick tactical changes depending on circumstances and opposition, most trendy hipster formations are at heart 9 men behind the ball when defending and 5 going forward when attacking. A fluid 4-4-2 covers most eventualities. We need to stop with this pony like “they know the triggers”, or “good without the ball”. Fucking pony. Can they play? Yes or fucking no? If they can, they’re in, if they can’t they’re out. Regardless of the “triggers” or how good they are without the ball. If they’re only good without the ball, We’ll pick them when we’re not using a ball, but until then. Fuck off

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1 hour ago, Bob76 said:

What a load of crap, the 4-2-2-2 got sussed two years ago and the rigid way we stick to it makes us very easy to play against, unless we get hazard and De Brune to play the number 10s then we create nothing and leave big gaps at the back.

Need to ditch this and the playbook and be more adaptive.

This is 100% correct. The reason being   that we end up with just two defending as we have no width without the fullbacks being too far advanced all the time. We were continually exposed with this system.

4222 does not work. 

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3 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Vincent Kompany it is then!

Russell Martin's MK Dons had great possession stats, but could only finish 13th in League 1. Swansea under him have finished 15th and 10th. They are the only stats that matter.

Great shout.

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Just now, Wade Garrett said:

He’s a Green Party supporting  vegan Buddhist.

I’m surprised he’s not a fucking lesbian.

Have they ever confirmed their gender or sexuality? Rasmus said they wanted a young progressive manager, they never said anything about that being on the pitch 

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41 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Vincent Kompany it is then!

Russell Martin's MK Dons had great possession stats, but could only finish 13th in League 1. Swansea under him have finished 15th and 10th. They are the only stats that matter.

Assuming there is an even chsnce for every team at the start of the season then yes, thats the way to look at it.

But obviously in the real world there are significant nuances such as budget, existing squad, quality of opposition etc.

Not saying I am an expert in where MK Dons or Swansea were expected to finish but I doubt the expectstion for either was to win the league.

Now, the fact he can point to having implemented a clear style of play with both is clearly significant and is often the sign of a good coach. If I recall correctly Pochettino was fired from Espanyol when they were in a poor position but had drawn praise for implementing a clear style, just as he didnvery quickly with us.

Next season we will have one of the biggest budgets and in theory a squad of players who are better than what Swansea have. I would imagine Sport Republic think that with better players, Martin's style would be suited to achieving a higher finish. Whether that happens of course nobody knows, but to reduce a manager to simply where their team finishes in the league is a bit too simplistic.

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22 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Assuming there is an even chsnce for every team at the start of the season then yes, thats the way to look at it.

But obviously in the real world there are significant nuances such as budget, existing squad, quality of opposition etc.

Not saying I am an expert in where MK Dons or Swansea were expected to finish but I doubt the expectstion for either was to win the league.

Now, the fact he can point to having implemented a clear style of play with both is clearly significant and is often the sign of a good coach. If I recall correctly Pochettino was fired from Espanyol when they were in a poor position but had drawn praise for implementing a clear style, just as he didnvery quickly with us.

Next season we will have one of the biggest budgets and in theory a squad of players who are better than what Swansea have. I would imagine Sport Republic think that with better players, Martin's style would be suited to achieving a higher finish. Whether that happens of course nobody knows, but to reduce a manager to simply where their team finishes in the league is a bit too simplistic.


It went so well the last time they identified a manager whose style belied their clubs league position!

 

Cant wait to see them do it again 

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13 minutes ago, saint lard said:

Underwhelmed. 
just smacks of another ‘trying to be clever’ appointment,and that will become quite apparent in a short space of time. 
And back to square one.

 

Agree fully with this. Totally underwhelming. Hoping he's just on a list of candidates that we are speaking to.

Edited by davefizzy14
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28 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Not saying I am an expert in where MK Dons or Swansea were expected to finish but I doubt the expectstion for either was to win the league

Swansea did finish top 6 for the two seasons before Martin arrived (4th once).

So surely they'd be targeting play offs, which this guy has not delivered.

 

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10 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:


It went so well the last time they identified a manager whose style belied their clubs league position!

 

Cant wait to see them do it again 

At least it's the other way round this time, which is creative.

Jones took a League 1/Championship bottom six size club into the play offs.

This guy is taking a play off contenders size club down to mid table or lower.

Genius.

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14 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Swansea did finish top 6 for the two seasons before Martin arrived (4th once).

So surely they'd be targeting play offs, which this guy has not delivered.

 

Presumably coinciding with when their PL parachute payments ended.

Looks like they have spent about £8m on fees in the last three seasons combined. Almost all recent signings loans and free, with no signings in January despite losing players.

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7 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Presumably coinciding with when their PL parachute payments ended.

Looks like they have spent about £8m on fees in the last three seasons combined. Almost all recent signings loans and free, with no signings in January despite losing players.

Yep, fair enough.

But - he didn't make the play offs in a season where Coventry, Luton and newly promoted Sunderland did, and Middlesbrough who were in the drop zone early in the season.

At least two of those won't have bigger budgets than Swansea.

If we get him then we'll all give him a chance but feels a bit risky / underwhelming to me.

Edited by CB Fry
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We seem obsessed with finding managers and players with specific metrics, but surely the most important metric is winning games? I don't think Martin has won enough games at this level to be linked to promotion challenging sides, if I'm totally honest.

In addition to that he's new to the managerial game and this is going to be a situation like no other - big egos, big internationals, players wanting out etc. Is he big enough to handle all of this?

We really needed to get a 'no brainer' appointment this summer, someone everyone could get behind and make sense of, I don't think this is that appointment.

Edited by S-Clarke
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16 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

 

We really needed to get a 'no brainer' appointment this summer, someone everyone could get behind and make sense of, I don't think this is that appointment.

We needed that twice this season. What makes you think they’d get it right this time? 

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1 minute ago, RedArmy said:

We needed that twice this season. What makes you think they’d get it right this time? 

Blind faith, maybe! totally losing all faith now though to be honest.

If this happens I'm convinced they have no idea what they're doing.

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7 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

Hopefully he nails his colours to the mast again if it happens.

Gives him no way out if it goes wrong again.

How many chances do you give him to get it right ? 
 

I suppose as a co-owner the answer is as many as he wants. But for me, Rasmus has burnt up his credit with the Jones appointment.

Appointing Nathan Jones yelled out Championship. Can’t help thinking Russell Martin is striving for Championship mediocrity. 

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8 hours ago, Saint86 said:

As others have said, you need to be agressive in this to get the required points. We will not get promoted playing more of this possession heavy nonsense and Dmpossibky even rasmus' beloved 5 at the back. I would much prefer a 4-2-2-2 or formation that entails more direct and attacking play myself. One of our biggest issues has been that we abandoned our high press attacking style when SR came in... That and squad / first 11 quality has declined repeatedly. 

4222 worked for the short time it was introduced over here but then it quickly got found out. Same went for Leipzig, worked wonders for them then teams started to suss it all out, it was Nagelsmann who then went against all that redbull were about and changed their system to a 3421, they started winning again, then all German clubs started to follow suit, after Nagelsmann left, Marsch tried going back to the 4222 and that basically got him sacked as they probably had the 2nd best squad but were a shambles, a bit like us really. They then went back to the 3421 formation and they started to click again.

Teams should always play to the squads strengths, unfortunately we didnt, we probably should of setup with a 433/4231 a formation we were so used to under Poch and koeman and the press worked alot better under poch using that system than the press under Ralph imo. 

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Christ, reading this thread it is genuinely starting to feel like deju vu with the prelude to the fittest man in the world. I know the majority on here take the piss out of Ankersen but if he is driving this appointment, as he was with Jones, you have to feel for his mental health and the health of our club on the back of it. 

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2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

He’s a Green Party supporting  vegan Buddhist.

I’m surprised he’s not a fucking lesbian 

If he comes to us I suspect he’ll only look to use us as a stepping stone.

Looks destined to end up at Forest Green.

 

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It's hard to know who is out there and willing to take us on next year with so much uncertainty regarding the squad/staff. There's obviously a list of names I'd prefer to this but there's also plenty discussed on here who I'd feel far worse about (Gerrard, Lampard).

MK Dons and Swansea fans both seem to have a great opinion of him which is refreshing. I'm hopeful that his brand of attacking possession-based football combined with us naturally having one of the stronger squads in the division next year should lead to something positive.

The apprehension on here is understandable given Sports Republic's failures so far, but it appears to be a much better fit than NJ was stylistically. I do completely agree that we needed to do something that the entire fanbase could get behind right away to have a mentality shift over the Summer, but I just can't see who could've realistically provided that (please don't say fucking Potter...). 

A terrifying appointment either way, but definitely not my least favourite option of a rather grim looking list of managers. 

 

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On 16/05/2023 at 17:27, Smirking_Saint said:

Russell Martin seems a steady, sensible approach for a team that was progressive in the top half of the Championship 

But… for me with the potential project, money, stature… Id expect more

Said this before, still think it now

 

We can and should be looking for more

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2 minutes ago, davefizzy14 said:

Do you know anything on whose on the list? 

I don’t mate sorry, although, Id be surprised if we are at any advanced stage in negotiations, I wouldn’t expect any announcements for atleast a couple of weeks so Im not losing my mind about the RM rumours yet

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1 minute ago, Smirking_Saint said:

I don’t mate sorry, although, Id be surprised if we are at any advanced stage in negotiations, I wouldn’t expect any announcements for atleast a couple of weeks so Im not losing my mind about the RM rumours yet

Ok thanks. Do you think we would go for a big name like Gerrard or Vieira? 

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  • Lighthouse changed the title to Russell Martin

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