egg Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 1 minute ago, sadoldgit said: As has been said, it has nothing to do with the EU. A Supreme Court based here could find itself compromised by a government. The European Court by its very nature is completely independent of possible internal state interference. If you are going to have an overseeing legislative body where total independence of any particular state is crucial, then it makes perfect sense and is why it was formed in the first place. If the state is complying with basic human rights anyway, what does it have to fear from the ECHR? I've addressed the first point. As to the balance, we'll agree to differ. I am quite satisfied that we do not need international judges overseeing our judges decision making. We have tribunals, appellate tribunals, the high court for judicial review, then onto the court of appeal, then the supreme court if necessary. Those courts and their judges are independent of each other and any duff decisions will get proper scrutiny and a fair outcome irrespective of politics or outside interference. I'm not persuaded that necessarily applies in the ECHR, particularly post Brexit. I'll leave it there as this is a general election thread, and one thing we all seem to agree on, is this ain't happening anyway! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 3 minutes ago, skintsaint said: Has that ever happened? I don't know either way, just intrigued as thought the SC was independent of government. No. It's an absurd allegation. The SC is independent of the government. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted June 27 Author Share Posted June 27 It is not for you or I to be satisfied about whether a higher court is needed. The reason is was formed on the first place still stands scrutiny but as you say, we aren’t leaving anyway and it is just another chunk of red meat thrown out to deflect from other matters. No one here gave a stuff about the ECHR until Rwanda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted June 27 Author Share Posted June 27 7 minutes ago, egg said: No. It's an absurd allegation. The SC is independent of the government. At the moment. Who knows what could happen in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 21 minutes ago, sadoldgit said: At the moment. Who knows what could happen in the future? We need to deal with the reality, not the vague prospect of our independent judicial structure crumbling at some point in the future. Anyways, I promised to shut up so I will! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 1 hour ago, sadoldgit said: As has been said, it has nothing to do with the EU. A Supreme Court based here could find itself compromised by a government. The European Court by its very nature is completely independent of possible internal state interference. If you are going to have an overseeing legislative body where total independence of any particular state is crucial, then it makes perfect sense and is why it was formed in the first place. If the state is complying with basic human rights anyway, what does it have to fear from the ECHR? The only people who need to be concerned are those who are allegedly in breech of human rights. What is wrong with that? Because many of the rulings are subjective and individual nation states may disagree with their interpretation of what human rights are and what they entail. It was also set up during a different time with very different circumstances. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Farage can’t even condemn fully those absolute vile racist homophobic scum campaigning for him. Absolute cunt of a party 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted June 27 Author Share Posted June 27 (edited) 2 hours ago, egg said: We need to deal with the reality, not the vague prospect of our independent judicial structure crumbling at some point in the future. Anyways, I promised to shut up so I will! History tells a different story. And it is not a question of our system crumbling, more of a level of scrutiny from outside of our own system. The more complex the issue, the wider the level of experience to deal with it surely helps? Anyway, another example of the sort of people who campaign for Farage. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c10l5qd8p60o.amp Bless you hypo, you are confused. To help you out, would you trust the Tory Party to determine whether Rwanda is a safe country to deport people to or the ECHR? Actually don’t answer that. You would probably think it is ok to send them to Gaza. Edited June 27 by sadoldgit 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloucester Saint Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 5 minutes ago, whelk said: Farage can’t even condemn fully those absolute vile racist homophobic scum campaigning for him. Absolute cunt of a party Reform aren’t racist, homophobic bigots and nothing remotely like the old National Front and BNP. Honest. And if you believe that after watching this appalling clip, you’ll believe anything https://www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-undercover-inside-reforms-campaign-evidence-of-homophobia-and-canvassers-racism 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloucester Saint Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 (edited) This is quite amusing though from Ed Davey (via Tim Montgomerie on X) https://x.com/montie/status/1806278644785873218?cxt=HBwWhIWwve-2mJEyAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw%3D%3D&refsrc=email He’s like the Daily Star is Ed Davey - cheering us up amongst the dourness. You have my vote. In other news, the Economist backs Labour for the first time since 2005. Edited June 27 by Gloucester Saint 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 23 minutes ago, whelk said: Farage can’t even condemn fully those absolute vile racist homophobic scum campaigning for him. Absolute cunt of a party Be fair now. “Nigel” didn’t even have enough time to do the proper vetting on all of his candidates! How on earth do you think he’s got enough time to check on the complete merry band of utter fuckwits and reprehensible cunts that follow him? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted June 27 Author Share Posted June 27 Ed taking one for the team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 11 minutes ago, sadoldgit said: Ed taking one for the team! Looks like he's giving one for the team! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted June 27 Author Share Posted June 27 John Crace nailing it again. https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/27/the-farage-faithful-know-hes-a-but-they-dont-care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 17 minutes ago, sadoldgit said: John Crace nailing it again. https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/27/the-farage-faithful-know-hes-a-but-they-dont-care When you say again are you referring to the time he “nailed it” here? https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/guardian-aplogises-to-isabel-oakeshott-over-fictitious-comment-in-satirical-sketch-on-cables-leak/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 Another dodgy Reform candidate. This one with links to the BNP. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/reform-uk-drops-candidate-revealed-to-have-been-bnp-member/ar-BB1p0cBR?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=3dda2dd9d3f7442daff269af32c15b35&ei=14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east-stand-nic Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 11 hours ago, The Kraken said: Be fair now. “Nigel” didn’t even have enough time to do the proper vetting on all of his candidates! How on earth do you think he’s got enough time to check on the complete merry band of utter fuckwits and reprehensible cunts that follow him? Meanwhile, Labour have never had any racist members or followers. Jeez. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 10 hours ago, Turkish said: When you say again are you referring to the time he “nailed it” here? https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/guardian-aplogises-to-isabel-oakeshott-over-fictitious-comment-in-satirical-sketch-on-cables-leak/ Just bantz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 5 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said: Meanwhile, Labour have never had any racist members or followers. Jeez. And what has that got to do with Reform. Jeez. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 14 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said: Meanwhile, Labour have never had any racist members or followers. Jeez. Show me evidence of a campaigner from another party asking a voter to kill immigrants under his care, calling for junior soldiers to kill immigrants in the UK, in France, and in Bradford and I'll grant you equivalence. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 16 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said: Meanwhile, Labour have never had any racist members or followers. Jeez. He attracts these people like flies to a steaming turd. The issue here is about the politics of the current Reform Party and the kind of people it attracts. You might recall the Labour campaign under Corbyn and the constant claims of antisemitism? That was all over the media in the same way that these Reform people are now. What is your issue (apart from the fact that you support a party that is catnip to racists and fascists)? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 I don’t think Tinfoil Tristan is to be taken seriously fellas. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 110 Reform candidates have been dropped or swapped from January of this year. Jeez. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 It’s a shame that he wasn’t as quick to call out Hester’s racist comments about Diane Abbott. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckmg1mldk0mo.amp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 12 minutes ago, sadoldgit said: It’s a shame that he wasn’t as quick to call out Hester’s racist comments about Diane Abbott. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckmg1mldk0mo.amp why are you so obsessed by a fringe party? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 13 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said: why are you so obsessed by a fringe party? everyone of his posts on this thread today have been about Reform. Yesterday he managed not to mention Farage until the afternoon though 🤡 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 1 hour ago, sadoldgit said: It’s a shame that he wasn’t as quick to call out Hester’s racist comments about Diane Abbott. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckmg1mldk0mo.amp Sunak may be a hypocrite but I’m not about to criticise him for standing up to somebody calling him “an effing paki”. There’s a myriad of things he can rightly be shot down for, this isn’t remotely one of them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 20 hours ago, egg said: No. It's an absurd allegation. The SC is independent of the government. Except when the government of the day passes legislation forcing the SC to accept a position that isn’t true say for example that a country in Africa is a safe place to send refugees…. Then the SC clearly isn’t independent and has been told by the government what to do. Something not true of the ECHR. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said: why are you so obsessed by a fringe party? Why are you so obsessed with my posts? It is an election. We discuss what is going on.The Reform Party is having a massive effect on the Tory vote. It is also full of extremists. It would be odd to ignore what is going on wouldn’t it? Perhaps you would like to share your opinion about what these canvassers have been saying? Edited June 28 by sadoldgit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Just now, sadoldgit said: Why are you so obsessed with my posts? It is an election. We discuss what is going on.The Reform Party is having a massive effect on the Tory vote. It is also full of extremists. It would be odd to ignore what is going on wouldn’t it? I not obsessed with your posts. Just merely asking a question of why you seemingly only mention Farage/Reform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 13 minutes ago, a1ex2001 said: Except when the government of the day passes legislation forcing the SC to accept a position that isn’t true say for example that a country in Africa is a safe place to send refugees…. Then the SC clearly isn’t independent and has been told by the government what to do. Something not true of the ECHR. Then there definitely wouldn't be any European countries who've sent refugees to Rwanda in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: Then there definitely wouldn't be any European countries who've sent refugees to Rwanda in that case. The EU lurches more to the "Far Right" every month. Quote The EU bloc has paid Turkey billions of dollars to keep refugees from reaching Greece and has funded the Libyan Coast Guard, which pushes migrant boats bound for Europe back to North Africa. It is also helping to fund U.N.-run centres in Niger and Rwanda to process asylum seekers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 What was that Soogy, ECHR there to stop extremists abusing our human rights when in Government? Oh dear😂😂😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 19 minutes ago, a1ex2001 said: Except when the government of the day passes legislation forcing the SC to accept a position that isn’t true say for example that a country in Africa is a safe place to send refugees…. Then the SC clearly isn’t independent and has been told by the government what to do. Something not true of the ECHR. Nonsense. The SC overruled the government on Rwanda, ruling the policy illegal. That's not a court doing as a government wants is it. If and when a person impacted by the bill/act challenges the decision, our courts will determine it and in doing so must consider their human rights. Absolute nonsense to suggest that the courts will do anything other than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 19 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said: I not obsessed with your posts. Just merely asking a question of why you seemingly only mention Farage/Reform. But I don’t. Reform/Farage are constantly all over the news. What would be odd is to ignore why. I know you don’t have a problem with Farage, his politics or the actions of many of his party activists, but many do. Are you voting for Reform? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 1 minute ago, sadoldgit said: But I don’t. Reform/Farage are constantly all over the news. What would be odd is to ignore why. I know you don’t have a problem with Farage, his politics or the actions of many of his party activists, but many do. Are you voting for Reform? I am voting for an independent - probably As for his party activists; they all have lunatics, more so those further ends of the spectrum you go. Look at the state of some of the Greens (not that you have much to say about them). I doubt it would be too difficult to find a Momentum nutter wishing harm on a Jew. I mean, you verge on the edge of constant xenophobia with that particular group, I dread to think what you would say if set up for a spoof interview with a hidden camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 (edited) 29 minutes ago, sadoldgit said: Why are you so obsessed with my posts? It is an election. We discuss what is going on.The Reform Party is having a massive effect on the Tory vote. It is also full of extremists. It would be odd to ignore what is going on wouldn’t it? Perhaps you would like to share your opinion about what these canvassers have been saying? With or without reform we're having a labour government with a huge majority. Sure, a bunch of racists and little englanders will waste their vote on them, but they will not have any impact on the outcome. The constant highlighting them is almost as annoying as the party itself. Edited June 28 by egg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Just now, egg said: With or without reform we're having a labour government with a huge majority. Sure, a bunch of racists and little englanders will waste their vote on them, but they will not any significant impact on the outcome. The constant highlighting them is almost as annoying as the party itself. Exactly. Galloways lot at least had an MP a few weeks back, and could get a few more (more than Reform?), yet they get little attention in comparison. Same with the Green Party (and their nut jobs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 4 minutes ago, egg said: Nonsense. The SC overruled the government on Rwanda, ruling the policy illegal. That's not a court doing as a government wants is it. If and when a person impacted by the bill/act challenges the decision, our courts will determine it and in doing so must consider their human rights. Absolute nonsense to suggest that the courts will do anything other than that. The Supreme Court agreed that Parliament could rule that Rwanda was a safe country to send asylum seekers to. Many agencies disagree which is why it is good that there is a higher court not based here who can look at the situation/legalities away from the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Lib Dem’s getting desperate https://x.com/supertanskiii/status/1806270945058808192?s=46&t=hn-U2zuBXfVCGDsvNESPXA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted June 28 Author Share Posted June 28 4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said: I am voting for an independent - probably As for his party activists; they all have lunatics, more so those further ends of the spectrum you go. Look at the state of some of the Greens (not that you have much to say about them). I doubt it would be too difficult to find a Momentum nutter wishing harm on a Jew. I mean, you verge on the edge of constant xenophobia with that particular group, I dread to think what you would say if set up for a spoof interview with a hidden camera. I have said something about the Greens. I said that Carla spoke well and I agreed with many of their policies. Have I missed something? Are Momentum a political party with candidates standing at this election? As for xenophobia, best not go there with your record Batman. This Independent you are going to vote for, how does he/she feel about Muslims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Just now, sadoldgit said: I have said something about the Greens. I said that Carla spoke well and I agreed with many of their policies. Have I missed something? Are Momentum a political party with candidates standing at this election? As for xenophobia, best not go there with your record Batman. This Independent you are going to vote for, how does he/she feel about Muslims? I have no idea how they feel about Muslims, jews, Christians, Jedi's, or Rastas. I must have missed the endless tripe you posted about the nutters the Greens have standing....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 1 minute ago, sadoldgit said: The Supreme Court agreed that Parliament could rule that Rwanda was a safe country to send asylum seekers to. Many agencies disagree which is why it is good that there is a higher court not based here who can look at the situation/legalities away from the UK. Here is a summary of the SC decision. https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2023-0093-press-summary.pdf Where in that did the SC as the government wants? Absolute bollox to suggest that the SC is the government patsy and we need intervention from above. Sure, states relatively fresh out of the eastern bloc and/or with political judges may need some guidance, but we ain't that state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 28 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: Then there definitely wouldn't be any European countries who've sent refugees to Rwanda in that case. Which countries would these be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 2 minutes ago, egg said: Here is a summary of the SC decision. https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2023-0093-press-summary.pdf Where in that did the SC as the government wants? Absolute bollox to suggest that the SC is the government patsy and we need intervention from above. Sure, states relatively fresh out of the eastern bloc and/or with political judges may need some guidance, but we ain't that state. The Supreme Court found that Rwanda was not a safe place to send refugees, the government then passed legislation telling the Supreme Court that Rwanda is a safe country to send refugees to. How is that anything other than direct government intervention in a SC finding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 1 minute ago, a1ex2001 said: The Supreme Court found that Rwanda was not a safe place to send refugees, the government then passed legislation telling the Supreme Court that Rwanda is a safe country to send refugees to. How is that anything other than direct government intervention in a SC finding? It sounds like an explanation will be wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Just now, egg said: It sounds like an explanation will be wasted. Explain away go on I’m listening and ready to be convinced! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 4 minutes ago, a1ex2001 said: Explain away go on I’m listening and ready to be convinced! Honestly mate, I'm sensing I'd be wasting my time. Frankly, it's a bit silly to accept that the SC told the government that they're acting illegally, then suggest government intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 5 minutes ago, egg said: Honestly mate, I'm sensing I'd be wasting my time. Frankly, it's a bit silly to accept that the SC told the government that they're acting illegally, then suggest government intervention. Come on explain it then honestly I’m happy to be convinced you are not wasting your time just explain it…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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