The 2024 General Election - July 4th

[sadoldgit]

I wouldn’t trust him/Reform with foreign policy or domestic policy and, from what he has said so far, the NHS would not be safe in his hands. His tax policy shows that he will just look after the rich, as if they haven’t been looked after well enough over the last 14 years.

The sad thing is he is planning to screw the very people he says that he is one of, and they will vote for him anyway.

[Lord Duckhunter]

15 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

His tax policy shows that he will just look after the rich,

How does raising the tax threshold to 20k “just look after the rich”?

And you have the front to call other voters thick.
 

 

[sadoldgit]

37 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

How does raising the tax threshold to 20k “just look after the rich”?

And you have the front to call other voters thick.
 

 

You do understand that his economic policy goes further than just raising a tax threshold and that has other consequences? Maybe not. Go check out the likely consequences of his “contract.” Go on Duckie, you know you want to, go and vote for him in the poll.

His economic policy has been called “Liz Truss on steroids.”

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/reform-uk-manifesto-reaction

Anyway, I didn’t see the interview but was Farage asked his opinion about should Putin be successful in controlling Ukraine, he will have a NATO country right on his border. His argument for invading Ukraine is that he was reacting NATO expansionism up to his border. How does that work if by his own actions he has a NATO country on his doorstep?

Edited June 22 by sadoldgit
Added text

[Lord Duckhunter]

58 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

You do understand that his economic policy goes further than just raising a tax threshold

You do understand that you said their polices “just” helped the rich. So you’re basically full of shite 

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

 

Anyway, I didn’t see the interview but was Farage asked his opinion about should Putin be successful in controlling Ukraine, he will have a NATO country right on his border. His argument for invading Ukraine is that he was reacting NATO expansionism up to his border. How does that work if by his own actions he has a NATO country on his doorstep?

Russia had 5 NATO countries bordering it before invading Ukraine; Norway, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and Poland, and since the Invasion has doubled the length of it's NATO border due to Finland joining.

Edited June 22 by badgerx16

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Russia had 5 NATO countries bordering it before invading Ukraine; Norway, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and Poland, and since the Invasion has doubled the length of it's NATO border due to Finland joining.

Soggy said he didn’t watch the interview, I did, and in that interview he didn’t say anything about NATO countries on Russian border. He said EU & NATO expansion Eastwards had given Putin the excuse he needed to sell a war to the  Russian people. He also Claimed George Robertson ex cabinet minister & NATO chief agreed with him. I don’t know whether that’s true or not, or whether this NATO country next door quote came from another interview, Soggy will probably know, he follows Nigel’s career closer than anyone else. 
 

Peter Hitchens who lived in Russia & probably know more about Russia than most journos, has been making the same case for years. Ukrainian membership of the EU or NATO is as unacceptable to Russians, as Russian missiles in Cuba were to the Americans. Hitchens doesn’t support Putin or think he’s got an excuse for invading, he’s merely explaining how the Russians think & why The West provoked them. The Treaty of Versailles probably provoked The Germans, or a least gave them a grievance that Hitler could exploit. Saying that doesn’t make anyone a Hitler supporter or in any way justifies how it played out. 

[whelk]

13 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Soggy said he didn’t watch the interview, I did, and in that interview he didn’t say anything about NATO countries on Russian border. He said EU & NATO expansion Eastwards had given Putin the excuse he needed to sell a war to the  Russian people. He also Claimed George Robertson ex cabinet minister & NATO chief agreed with him. I don’t know whether that’s true or not, or whether this NATO country next door quote came from another interview, Soggy will probably know, he follows Nigel’s career closer than anyone else. 
 

Peter Hitchens who lived in Russia & probably know more about Russia than most journos, has been making the same case for years. Ukrainian membership of the EU or NATO is as unacceptable to Russians, as Russian missiles in Cuba were to the Americans. Hitchens doesn’t support Putin or think he’s got an excuse for invading, he’s merely explaining how the Russians think & why The West provoked them. The Treaty of Versailles probably provoked The Germans, or a least gave them a grievance that Hitler could exploit. Saying that doesn’t make anyone a Hitler supporter or in any way justifies how it played out. 

Desperate stuff

[Whitey Grandad]

7 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I wouldn’t trust him/Reform with foreign policy or domestic policy and, from what he has said so far, the NHS would not be safe in his hands. His tax policy shows that he will just look after the rich, as if they haven’t been looked after well enough over the last 14 years.

The sad thing is he is planning to screw the very people he says that he is one of, and they will vote for him anyway.

Farage is rich.

[Fan The Flames]

Lord Far-Far didn't 

6 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Soggy said he didn’t watch the interview, I did, and in that interview he didn’t say anything about NATO countries on Russian border. He said EU & NATO expansion Eastwards had given Putin the excuse he needed to sell a war to the  Russian people. He also Claimed George Robertson ex cabinet minister & NATO chief agreed with him. I don’t know whether that’s true or not, or whether this NATO country next door quote came from another interview, Soggy will probably know, he follows Nigel’s career closer than anyone else. 
 

Peter Hitchens who lived in Russia & probably know more about Russia than most journos, has been making the same case for years. Ukrainian membership of the EU or NATO is as unacceptable to Russians, as Russian missiles in Cuba were to the Americans. Hitchens doesn’t support Putin or think he’s got an excuse for invading, he’s merely explaining how the Russians think & why The West provoked them. The Treaty of Versailles probably provoked The Germans, or a least gave them a grievance that Hitler could exploit. Saying that doesn’t make anyone a Hitler supporter or in any way justifies how it played out. 

Lord Faw-Faw could have said that in a way that didn't make him sound like a Putin puppet, but he chose the words deliberately. So desperate to dig out the EU and align with Trump about NATO that he was happy to sound like a Putin puppet. 

Massive red flag, that should do the same damage to him as the BBCs picture of Corbyn in a Russian hat did, but sadly it won't.

[sadoldgit]

10 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You do understand that you said their polices “just” helped the rich. So you’re basically full of shite 

I suggest you go and look more closely about how the Reform UK contract and their economic policy will affect normal people. The person who is full of shite is the person you idolise.

[sadoldgit]

7 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Soggy said he didn’t watch the interview, I did, and in that interview he didn’t say anything about NATO countries on Russian border. He said EU & NATO expansion Eastwards had given Putin the excuse he needed to sell a war to the  Russian people. He also Claimed George Robertson ex cabinet minister & NATO chief agreed with him. I don’t know whether that’s true or not, or whether this NATO country next door quote came from another interview, Soggy will probably know, he follows Nigel’s career closer than anyone else. 
 

Peter Hitchens who lived in Russia & probably know more about Russia than most journos, has been making the same case for years. Ukrainian membership of the EU or NATO is as unacceptable to Russians, as Russian missiles in Cuba were to the Americans. Hitchens doesn’t support Putin or think he’s got an excuse for invading, he’s merely explaining how the Russians think & why The West provoked them. The Treaty of Versailles probably provoked The Germans, or a least gave them a grievance that Hitler could exploit. Saying that doesn’t make anyone a Hitler supporter or in any way justifies how it played out. 

Go back and read what I said. You will notice that I said had he been asked the question, not if he had said anything about it. Two very different things. As for following Farage’s career (Nigel to you I note), how you can pretend that I know more about it than you, his chief brown noser, deserves the only response you understand….

😂

[Lord Duckhunter]

8 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Lord Far-Far didn't 

Lord Faw-Faw could have said that in a way that didn't make him sound like a Putin puppet, but he chose the words deliberately. So desperate to dig out the EU and align with Trump about NATO that he was happy to sound like a Putin puppet. 

Massive red flag, that should do the same damage to him as the BBCs picture of Corbyn in a Russian hat did, but sadly it won't.

He’s been saying it since 2014, said it in the European Parliament, said it during his live debate with Nick Clegg on BBC. As have others, including the Director of Strategy and Communications for the Labour Party at the last 2 elections,(I don’t recall that stopping Soggy voting for them), beloved of the left John Pilger & a former British ambassador to Russia. I don’t happen to agree with Nigel on this one, the the fake outrage over an opinion he’s held and aired for 10 years, shared by many others, is ridiculous. Farage  deranged syndrome in all its glory. 

Edited June 23 by Lord Duckhunter

[Weston Super Saint]

12 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Farage is rich.

Not really.  Estimated to be £3.2m, but £1.5m of that came from I'm a celebrity.

[Fan The Flames]

30 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s been saying it since 2014, said it in the European Parliament, said it during his live debate with Nick Clegg on BBC. As have others, including the Director of Strategy and Communications for the Labour Party at the last 2 elections,(I don’t recall that stopping Soggy voting for them), beloved of the left John Pilger & a former British ambassador to Russia. I don’t happen to agree with Nigel on this one, the the fake outrage over an opinion he’s held and aired for 10 years, shared by many others, is ridiculous. Farage  deranged syndrome in all its glory. 

I don't know why you think because it's a long held belief that makes it ok. There's a world of difference between saying 'there is a danger that eastward expansion will give Russia the excuse....' to 'the EU and NATO provoked Russia....'. It's straight out of the Putin playbook. His deniable ambiguity shtick doesn't work on this one mate, words matter and his makes him a putin mouth piece.

It's also a bit rich him telling other sovereign countries what to do, when he thinks that each sovereign country should be allowed to make it's own decisions and not being cowed by a large neighbour.

Edited June 23 by Fan The Flames

[aintforever]

16 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s been saying it since 2014, said it in the European Parliament, said it during his live debate with Nick Clegg on BBC. As have others, including the Director of Strategy and Communications for the Labour Party at the last 2 elections,(I don’t recall that stopping Soggy voting for them), beloved of the left John Pilger & a former British ambassador to Russia. I don’t happen to agree with Nigel on this one, the the fake outrage over an opinion he’s held and aired for 10 years, shared by many others, is ridiculous. Farage  deranged syndrome in all its glory. 

He is someone who is aiming to become leader of the opposition and then our next PM so any outrage is totally justified. Imagine the outrage if Corbyn had said the same.

To put any blame on ‘the west’ is just nonsense, he talks about the EU/NATO ‘expanding’ as if it is some sort of colonial power invading countries and forcing them to join. These are free democratic countries choosing which trading block/political union they want to be part of or what is best for their defence. 

[Fan The Flames]

2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

He is someone who is aiming to become leader of the opposition and then our next PM so any outrage is totally justified. Imagine the outrage if Corbyn had said the same.

To put any blame on ‘the west’ is just nonsense, he talks about the EU/NATO ‘expanding’ as if it is some sort of colonial power invading countries and forcing them to join. These are free democratic countries choosing which trading block/political union they want to be part of or what is best for their defence. 

Exactly, Ducker swings from being totally dismissive of something he doesn't agree with, to being a big pathetic drama queen on other issues. But he doesn't like the middle ground that's for pinkos and losers.

[badgerx16]

32 minutes ago, aintforever said:

 

To put any blame on ‘the west’ is just nonsense, he talks about the EU/NATO ‘expanding’ as if it is some sort of colonial power invading countries and forcing them to join. These are free democratic countries choosing which trading block/political union they want to be part of or what is best for their defence. 

Indeed. Did NATO woo the Baltics to wind Russia up, or did Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia choose to join NATO because they had experience of Russian invasion and occupation ? Why did all the former Warsaw Pact nations switch their gaze westwards once the USSR collapsed.

Why, after the start of the SMO did previously neutral Sweden and Finland change their stance ? It wasn't NATO aggression.

Edited June 23 by badgerx16

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

He is someone who is aiming to become leader of the opposition and then our next PM so any outrage is totally justified. Imagine the outrage if Corbyn had said the same.

To put any blame on ‘the west’ is just nonsense, he talks about the EU/NATO ‘expanding’ as if it is some sort of colonial power invading countries and forcing them to join. These are free democratic countries choosing which trading block/political union they want to be part of or what is best for their defence. 

What do you mean ‘if’? He did.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Not really.  Estimated to be £3.2m, but £1.5m of that came from I'm a celebrity.

He banks (or used to) at Coutts. For that you needed to have an annual income of over £200,000.

[Gloucester Saint]

The gambling on the GE date in advance scandal keeps growing. Clearly it’s not the Nick Mason who played the drums for Pink Floyd! 

The Tories since 2019 have had a monumental self-destruct button - even if Saints had been bought by Milan Mandaric not Dragan, Harry returning and Westwood as Director of Football (shudder - and super strength air freshener for the exec corridor) could they have fucked up an organisation by design that severely. They were a disaster from 2016 really but Corbyn masked it for them.

https://news.sky.com/story/top-conservative-official-takes-leave-of-absence-amid-new-election-betting-allegations-13157405

[sadoldgit]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s been saying it since 2014, said it in the European Parliament, said it during his live debate with Nick Clegg on BBC. As have others, including the Director of Strategy and Communications for the Labour Party at the last 2 elections,(I don’t recall that stopping Soggy voting for them), beloved of the left John Pilger & a former British ambassador to Russia. I don’t happen to agree with Nigel on this one, the the fake outrage over an opinion he’s held and aired for 10 years, shared by many others, is ridiculous. Farage  deranged syndrome in all its glory. 

At least we can agree on this.

[whelk]

The betting is not a good look but bookies leave themselves wide open to such stuff quoting odds on events that are clearly just a decision from a man and no sporting contest

[badgerx16]

https://news.sky.com/video/sunak-claims-brexit-britain-became-the-worlds-fourth-biggest-exporter-is-he-right-13157549

[sadoldgit]

There is an old Turkish proverb doing the rounds at the moment which is very apt.

“The forest was shrinking but the trees kept voting for the axe, for the axe was very clever and convinced the trees that, because his handle was made of wood, he was one of them.”

Man of the people indeed.

[Turkish]

23 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

There is an old Turkish proverb doing the rounds at the moment which is very apt.

“The forest was shrinking but the trees kept voting for the axe, for the axe was very clever and convinced the trees that, because his handle was made of wood, he was one of them.”

Man of the people indeed.

was the axe made by his dad so kept telling everyone who would listen his dad used to make tools? 

Edited June 24 by Turkish

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

22 hours ago, whelk said:

The betting is not a good look but bookies leave themselves wide open to such stuff quoting odds on events that are clearly just a decision from a man and no sporting contest

Never bet on anything that can talk.

[Gloucester Saint]

Excellent article here from the FT summarising the journey from 2019 to now, and why London and the SE is deserting them. Essentially two reasons, firstly the anti-business, anti-universities and anti-London/SE rhetoric and policies and secondly Brexit and the continuing pursuit of retaining the Red Wall gains which flies in the face of the more educated, internationalist, London, South and SE. The 2019 coalition of voters was always a tough gig to keep intact as they want opposites in social, cultural and economic ideologies.

Not an accident that the Lib Dem’s are also causing the Tories a lot of problems in these areas and in the SW where the Tories left the fishing industry high and dry, and didn’t follow through on replacements for Interreg in Cornwall. And Reform are eating significantly in the much older, less formally educated groups they’ve been targeting with culture war crap they learned parrot fashion from Trump and Bannon. Trouble is, Farage communicates that stuff far more effectively than Bad Enough, Braverman and Donelan, even if Reform makes Truss and Kwarteng look economically sound by comparison:
https://www.ft.com/content/4c7594b9-22f3-4a31-8168-4b2622e2d685

Edited June 24 by Gloucester Saint

[Fan The Flames]

I see Farage has dropped the word 'provoked' from his Russia stance, as he tries to claw his way out of the mess. As I said earlier the deniable ambiguity thing wouldn't work on that subject.

[badgerx16]

£1.4Bn of public money down the drain, from the party that can be trusted with the nation's finance;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cll476qzm85o

Edited June 25 by badgerx16

[rallyboy]

Even putting aside the fact that they lied and partied while loved ones were buried alone, the government's Covid response has been exposed as an absolute clusterfuck and the facts are writ large in black and white, from the death figures to the profiteering.

But their real problem is that behind every personal loss, there are people who will never forgive them - and each one of them has a vote. 

The sky is dark with chickens coming home....

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Even putting aside the fact that they lied and partied while loved ones were buried alone, the government's Covid response has been exposed as an absolute clusterfuck and the facts are writ large in black and white, from the death figures to the profiteering.

But their real problem is that behind every personal loss, there are people who will never forgive them - and each one of them has a vote. 

The sky is dark with chickens coming home....

I bet you wanted us locked down longer, sooner, and harder

fecking melt

[badgerx16]

6 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I bet you wanted us locked down longer, sooner, and harder

fecking melt

Are you happy that nearly £1.5Bn pounds of our money is being burned and the ones that profiteered from it are sunning themselves in their mega-millions Caribbean hideaway paid for from the NHS pandemic funding ?

Fecking eejit

Edited June 25 by badgerx16

[rallyboy]

20 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I bet you wanted us locked down longer, sooner, and harder

fecking melt

No, you lost your bet and you're wrong on all three counts.

Yet again.

I just wanted professionals dealing with things professionally.

Not quite sure why you have to be abusive, there's a lot of anger there.

Have a nice day.

[sadoldgit]

44 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I bet you wanted us locked down longer, sooner, and harder

fecking melt

If I were you I would sue the anger management course.

Would like to explain to us what had that has  to do with a monumental waste of our money?

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously? Perhaps, instead of changing your user name, you should just try to engage your brain before posting?

 

[whelk]

38 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

No, you lost your bet and you're wrong on all three counts.

Yet again.

I just wanted professionals dealing with things professionally.

Not quite sure why you have to be abusive, there's a lot of anger there.

Have a nice day.

Tbf Batman is quite sparing with the insults generally. So well done for riling him.

Edited June 25 by whelk

[Whitey Grandad]

29 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

If I were you I would sue the anger management course.

Would like to explain to us what had that has  to do with a monumental waste of our money?

And you wonder why no one takes you seriously? Perhaps, instead of changing your user name, you should just try to engage your brain before posting?

 

The whole affair was a colossal waste of money and some people made a fortune out of it at the expense of most others.

Can we all agree now that the lockdowns were too severe and went on too long? There is a generation of youngsters who will never recover from the closures of the schools and colleges.

We shall be paying for the responses for the rest of our lives.

[sadoldgit]

12 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The whole affair was a colossal waste of money and some people made a fortune out of it at the expense of most others.

Can we all agree now that the lockdowns were too severe and went on too long? There is a generation of youngsters who will never recover from the closures of the schools and colleges.

We shall be paying for the responses for the rest of our lives.

Some people have already paid for the responses  with their lives.

As for agreeing, personally I’m waiting for the outcome of the official enquiry which will probably carry a bit more weight than an outburst from Delldays/Batman.

Edited June 25 by sadoldgit

[Whitey Grandad]

14 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Some people have already paid for the responses  with their lives.

As for agreeing, personally I’m waiting for the outcome of the official enquiry which will probably carry a bit more weight than an outburst from Delldays/Batman.

The ‘Official Whitewash’, do you mean?

[sadoldgit]

17 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The ‘Official Whitewash’, do you mean?

Depending on your bias I suppose Whitey or how high you were prepared to see the bodies piled up.

Edited June 25 by sadoldgit

[AlexLaw76]

5 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Depending on your bias I suppose Whitey or how high you were prepared to see the bodies piled up.

LOL

it was harmless to almost 100% of the population 

[tdmickey3]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

LOL

it was harmless to almost 100% of the population 

It wasn't harmless you absolute prick, you should be put in a room full of those who lost love ones to explain your comments 

[aintforever]

21 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

LOL

it was harmless to almost 100% of the population 

I knew two people who died from it you twat. 

[sadoldgit]

46 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

LOL

it was harmless to almost 100% of the population 

Only if you are Delldays or Donald Trump. Did you inject disinfectant?

You post some absolute dribble but this post takes the biscuit.

Edited June 25 by sadoldgit

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

LOL

it was harmless to almost 100% of the population 

Did you get vaccinated ? If so, why ?

[AlexLaw76]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Only if you are Delldays or Donald Trump. Did you inject disinfectant?

You post some absolute dribble but this post takes the biscuit.

Death rate for the U80s was at 0.6% (at the outbreak) for those infected with Covid, which further reduced the younger/healthier you get. Culminating to 0.0016% for those U9s.

Remember, anyone in a position of influence, power or the know, simply ignored the rules whilst trying to scare us all until our pips squeaked (remember Omicron, the South African Variant et al).

Now, we pay for it all.

 

Edited June 25 by AlexLaw76

[sadoldgit]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Death rate for the U80s was at 0.6% (at the outbreak) for those infected with Covid, which further reduced the younger/healthier you get. Culminating to 0.0016% for those U9s.

Remember, anyone in a position of influence, power or the know, simply ignored the rules whilst trying to scare us all until our pips squeaked (remember Omicron, the South African Variant et al).

Now, we pay for it all.

 

I guess it was folk like you who insisted that villages were not quarantined during the Black Death. We were scared because there was something to be scared of. Have you listened to what the people who worked in the hospitals at the time have said? Have you listened to those who lost loved ones or whose loved ones were seriously ill with the condition? You make out like it wasn’t a big deal. It was. Just because a few idiots, the PM included, thought they were above the rules, it doesn’t mean that the rules weren’t needed at the time.

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I guess it was folk like you who insisted that villages were not quarantined during the Black Death. We were scared because there was something to be scared of. Have you listened to what the people who worked in the hospitals at the time have said? Have you listened to those who lost loved ones or whose loved ones were seriously ill with the condition? You make out like it wasn’t a big deal. It was. Just because a few idiots, the PM included, thought they were above the rules, it doesn’t mean that the rules weren’t needed at the time.

Yes, member of family works in Critical Care / ICU at a major hospital in the South.

What ever you say, it was still not dangerous to almost the entire population. 

The idiots were many. Particularly those in the know, with influence etc. Boris, Starmer, Kinnock, Professor Pants Down...they all knew they were at extremely low risk.

As said before, now we all pay for it.

Edited June 25 by AlexLaw76

[sadoldgit]

5 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Yes, member of family works in Critical Care / ICU at a major hospital in the South.

What ever you say, it was still not dangerous to almost the entire population. 

The idiots were many. Particularly those in the know, with influence etc. Boris, Starmer, Kinnock, Professor Pants Down...they all knew they were at extremely low risk.

As said before, now we all pay for it.

7 million people worldwide who no longer draw breath due to Covid might think otherwise if they were still here. 

[Lighthouse]

9 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Yes, member of family works in Critical Care / ICU at a major hospital in the South.

What ever you say, it was still not dangerous to almost the entire population. 

The idiots were many. Particularly those in the know, with influence etc. Boris, Starmer, Kinnock, Professor Pants Down...they all knew they were at extremely low risk.

As said before, now we all pay for it.

The idiots were the ones who were asked to follow some very simple instructions and tried their hardest to disobey every single one of them, like some giant, petulant man-baby, for no other reason than, "I’m entitled to my rights!"

[revolution saint]

13 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Yes, member of family works in Critical Care / ICU at a major hospital in the South.

What ever you say, it was still not dangerous to almost the entire population. 

The idiots were many. Particularly those in the know, with influence etc. Boris, Starmer, Kinnock, Professor Pants Down...they all knew they were at extremely low risk.

As said before, now we all pay for it.

What were the admission rates like?  I only ask because that was supposed to be the reasoning behind lockdown rather than mortality.