The 2024 General Election - July 4th

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

My issue with Farage in particular is that he wants, and gets, the best of both worlds. He wants to be a political commentator and the mouthpiece of a political party. Be one or be the other.

He also gets a disproportionate amount of media exposure compared to the representatives of the other minority political parties. He plays the media like a (very poorly tuned) violin and they let him do it.

He is box office, like Trump. Talking of whom, when Farage has finished pulling the Tory Party apart and turning them into a bigger vehicle for the far right, he will be off to take the Trump shilling and do his best to ruin further the US. Gotta love democracy 🫡.

And yet he seems to be one of your favourite topics, you fucking lap it all up. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Isn’t that TV and the media in general? If no one watched it they’d stop showing it. 

“Nigel Farage is on question time tonight, I must watch to be offended”. 

[sadoldgit]

5 hours ago, egg said:

Why can't a mouthpiece also be a commentator? 

Parties can put out anyone they want, and it's for them to determine whether it's overload of one person, or a wider spread. In a bigger party, clearly there are more options.

Personally, I think Farage is a loathsome prick and the more I see and hear of him, the more harm I think he does for his parties cause. If his party feel otherwise, that's their call. 

Because they are two different jobs and in certain circumstances some political commentators are supposed to be unbiased. There are also broadcasting rules that dictate what people can and cannot do depending on their position, although Ofcom don’t really bother about enforcing them when it comes to GB News.

There is already an issue about Farage having his own show on GB News and also going into bat for Reform.

[Lord Duckhunter]

15 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

in certain circumstances some political commentators are supposed to be unbiased.

You mean the ones you disagree with. It’s alright for James O’Boring to be biased, but not anyone you disagree with. If he was on QT attacking the “far right” you’d be lapping it up. Fuck me, you’d waste 2/3 of your daily allowance boring us all with it. 

Edited June 1 by Lord Duckhunter

[egg]

23 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Because they are two different jobs and in certain circumstances some political commentators are supposed to be unbiased. There are also broadcasting rules that dictate what people can and cannot do depending on their position, although Ofcom don’t really bother about enforcing them when it comes to GB News.

There is already an issue about Farage having his own show on GB News and also going into bat for Reform.

Nonsense. Pre election campaigns are a sales pitch. Any party can roll out anyone they want to sell to the public, irrespective of our individual opinions of the parties, their people, or policies. 

[Turkish]

52 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Because they are two different jobs and in certain circumstances some political commentators are supposed to be unbiased. There are also broadcasting rules that dictate what people can and cannot do depending on their position, although Ofcom don’t really bother about enforcing them when it comes to GB News.

There is already an issue about Farage having his own show on GB News and also going into bat for Reform.

You talk about Farage non stop, you’re part of the problem. You moan about him being too much air time then don’t fucking well shut about about him. Here’s a novel idea, if you don’t agree with someone don’t watch them, don’t talk about them not only would it stop you getting angry it would also be a tiny step in the right direction of giving them less air time and it would do us all a fucking favour by stopping you droning on every frigging day an all 

Edited June 1 by Turkish

[badgerx16]

The best way to deal with Farage will be demonstrated on Juiy 4th when Reform get 0 MPs but split the Tory vote to gift seats to the other parties.

Edited June 1 by badgerx16

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

The best way to deal with Farage will be demonstrated on Juiy 4th when Reform get 0 MPs but split the Tory vote to gift seats to the other parties.

Tbf that’s exactly what he wants.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

The best way to deal with Farage will be demonstrated on Juiy 4th when Reform get 0 MPs but split the Tory vote to gift seats to the other parties.

You mean posting about him relentlessly on a football forum isn’t going to make any difference?

[badgerx16]

43 minutes ago, Turkish said:

You mean posting about him relentlessly on a football forum isn’t going to make any difference?

I don't think things posted on this thread will change the voting intentions of many forum members, if any.

[Turkish]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

I don't think things posted on this thread will change the voting intentions of many forum members, if any.

Big call given some posters thought they were ending racism by calling it out on here. Do not underestimate the power of saintsweb lounge and the literally tens of people who post on here

[Danbert]

22 hours ago, Turkish said:

Here’s a novel idea, if you don’t agree with someone don’t watch them, don’t talk about them not only would it stop you getting angry...

Perhaps you should take your own advice

[The Kraken]

So Diane says she’s standing 

[Turkish]

58 minutes ago, Danbert said:

Perhaps you should take your own advice

I do that already, great point though pal

[badgerx16]

20 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

So Diane says she’s standing 

"Looking like a true survivor" ?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

So Diane says she’s standing 

Some sources suggested she didn't intend to stand in the first place, after what had happened.

A mess all round.

A process that should have been decisive and fair, was left hanging as long as possible which could have only happened on purpose.

Fibs told about the process being ongoing when it wasn't.

Zero tolerance on antisemitism, is an apology and a training course.

The realignment to Starmer's stance shown to be an ongoing purge, with his preferred candidates airlifted in.

Party leader stating it was a hands off process, giving dates when selections would happen. Only for that to not apply for Abbott, and with the deputy getting involved.

Stories about peerages, for those willing to step down, coming out. Lots of stories that Abbott was happy to step down, within the party. Not inconceivable, that this applied to her, although she is denying that. This trailblazer would have been negotiating something.

Someone briefed the press about Abbott not being allowed to  stand, sparking this off. From Comms blunder to various internal convicts and agendas possibly involved there.

More broadly, it shows the conflicts both major parties have. Each containing subgroups constantly fighting for more control, often to the extent of destabilising their own side. We suffer the fallout of their deals and their back stabbing.

[harvey]

On 01/06/2024 at 19:19, badgerx16 said:

The best way to deal with Farage will be demonstrated on Juiy 4th when Reform get 0 MPs but split the Tory vote to gift seats to the other parties.

And that will happen, and then after 4-5 years of a Labour government making things much worse than they already are the Conservatives may get back in again and repeat the cycle.

Let's be honest, both parties are very much competing for middle ground with little between them really...they're both struggling to keep the far left at bay (Labour) in their party with the far right (Conservative) in theirs. Conservative and Labour want to keep the Status Quo.....'all aboard the gravy train'

[Tamesaint]

12 minutes ago, harvey said:

And that will happen, and then after 4-5 years of a Labour government making things much worse than they already are the Conservatives may get back in again and repeat the cycle.

Let's be honest, both parties are very much competing for middle ground with little between them really...they're both struggling to keep the far left at bay (Labour) in their party with the far right (Conservative) in theirs. Conservative and Labour want to keep the Status Quo.....'all aboard the gravy train'

Labour seem to be doing much better at keeping their extremists at bay than the Tories . 

[harvey]

24 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Labour seem to be doing much better at keeping their extremists at bay than the Tories . 

Really??? 😂

[Gloucester Saint]

12 hours ago, harvey said:

Really??? 😂

From a Lib Dem perspective, independent of the main two parties, Starmer has dealt with the hard left better. The Diane Abbott episode has not been good enough I agree. That briefing to the Times was just daft and inflamed things needlessly. As I think Duck said, he’d already proved he’d got the hard left under control by expelling Corbyn, and Abbott has lost the whip for quite some time after those terrible comments. She probably wasn’t standing on health grounds but now is. He’s suspended two others on that wing though who have some repellent allegations against them. 

By comparison, Sunak has constantly been undermined by Truss in particular, who he should have expelled after she was a nodding dog on a platform where Bannon was praising Tommy Robinson FFS. She beat him in the internal contest and she, Clarke, Jenryck and others have rubbed his nose in it every day since. Every mention of her loses them another 20 seats. If he’d kicked her out, and she’s since appeared on another far right platform which joked about rape https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/kemi-badenoch-liz-truss-podcast-carl-benjamin-b2555595.html, he’d have helped detoxify the Conservative brand a lot. Not totally, but limited quite a bit of the damage coming.

There was a segment on Times Radio where Matthew Paris said that the Tory hard right will never like Sunak or agree with what he does, so he’d have been better off having a purge like Boris did with the Tory left and centre MPs over no deal. He had the majority to do it. Sunak was too scared of the Mail and Telegraph to wield the 🪓 when needed. That said, I’m pissed off with us and Labour not giving James Bagge a free hit like Martin Bell had in Tatton against another disgraced Conservative. It’s in the national interest for Truss to be humiliated like she did our country. Revenge via the ballot box against her and that other loon Sinclair from the IEA.

Braverman goaded him for months to sack her also before he grew a pair, revelling in comments about homelessness being a lifestyle choice for example which appalled everyone cross-party. Anderson was clearly racist towards Khan yet there was days of indecision before giving him the push because he was so scared of the ERG What’s App groups. I would give him some credit for standing up to that lot on smoking, but then he’s timed the legislation out now. 

BTW, not being pious as Lib Dem’s have their share over the years too.

Edited June 3 by Gloucester Saint

[sadoldgit]

Anyone spot any of the Usual Suspects in this picture?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tommy-robinsonparliament-protest-b2554975.html

Meanwhile…

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/02/tory-candidate-robert-largan-social-media-ads-labour-reform-uk

Also Farage is to make an “emergency announcement” at 4pm this afternoon. Has he decided to stand?

Edited June 3 by sadoldgit
Add text

[whelk]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Anyone spot any of the Usual Suspects in this picture?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tommy-robinsonparliament-protest-b2554975.html

Meanwhile…

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/02/tory-candidate-robert-largan-social-media-ads-labour-reform-uk

You are clearly obsessed with this bloke. Maybe some suppression akin to right wing Republicans denouncing homosexuality whilst nipping off to get a hand job in the gents.

[The Kraken]

3 hours ago, whelk said:

You are clearly obsessed with this bloke. Maybe some suppression akin to right wing Republicans denouncing homosexuality whilst nipping off to get a hand job in the gents.

There's definitely a lot of projection going on.

[sadoldgit]

So he wants to take over the Tory Party and “reshape the centre right.” We know what that means.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/farage-tory-takeover/

I mention Starmer, Sunak and Farage more but you don’t accuse me of projection there. If you are going to have a dig you are going to have to do better chaps. It just sounds a bit desparate.

Edited June 3 by sadoldgit
Added text

[Jeremy Corbyn]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

So he wants to take over the Tory Party and “reshape the centre right.” We know what that means.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/farage-tory-takeover/

I mention Starmer, Sunak and Farage more but you don’t accuse me of projection there. If you are going to have a dig you are going to have to do better chaps. It just sounds a bit desparate.

What this sounds like:

1. Torie's have a terrible GE (circa 20%)

2. Reform have a good GE (circa 15%)

3. Farage goes to the Tories after the election - "you can either have a falling 20% with reform eating away at you, or we'll merge (stable 35%) under my terms

4. Tories accept and Farage choice (Braverman?) becomes LOTO with NF pulling the strings

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

What this sounds like:

1. Torie's have a terrible GE (circa 20%)

2. Reform have a good GE (circa 15%)

3. Farage goes to the Tories after the election - "you can either have a falling 20% with reform eating away at you, or we'll merge (stable 35%) under my terms

4. Tories accept and Farage choice (Braverman?) becomes LOTO with NF pulling the strings

Sounds like some weird fantasy politics game and can't really see it happening.  Would probably be the nail in the coffin for more moderate Tory voters so that 35% would probably look more like 25%.

[Fan The Flames]

I see the critism on this thread has prompted Nigel Farage to stand for election.

[sadoldgit]

41 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

I see the critism on this thread has prompted Nigel Farage to stand for election.

Millions of people wanted him to stand and he felt he was letting them down! I expect Duckie is looking at the property pages in Clacton this very minute.

With luck this will split the right vote enough to let the LibDems in as the second biggest party.

Hopefully he will now spend more time canvassing in Clacton and less time polluting our tv screens fear mongering about immigrant invasions.

 

Edited June 3 by sadoldgit
Add text

[whelk]

I can’t get into the mind of a typical Reform voter, but why the fuck is Farage at the helm going to pull in many more voters than Tice? 
Well boys if you were getting annoyed at seeing the ugly bastard on the tv before be prepared for a lot more now1

[Holmes_and_Watson]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

What this sounds like:

1. Torie's have a terrible GE (circa 20%)

2. Reform have a good GE (circa 15%)

3. Farage goes to the Tories after the election - "you can either have a falling 20% with reform eating away at you, or we'll merge (stable 35%) under my terms

4. Tories accept and Farage choice (Braverman?) becomes LOTO with NF pulling the strings

While you can't rule out shifts to the right, the above leads to 5) A broadly centrist Labour party gets a free run for what will seem like forever.

Except politics is dynamic so there will be a 6) Everyone in labour thinks they are responsible for the success or can't help grasping for more power leading to 7) internal conflicts split labour and 8 ) ruling group in labour purging others resulting in growth of fringe groups. Then 9) having lost votes to the extremes, unpopular policies trying to placate them moving them from centre ground and people just being tired of not much having changed. 10) Back to default status before 1) with neither party showing a hint of self awareness on how it all happened. 11) Repeat. 🙂

[Fan The Flames]

22 minutes ago, whelk said:

I can’t get into the mind of a typical Reform voter, but why the fuck is Farage at the helm going to pull in many more voters than Tice? 
Well boys if you were getting annoyed at seeing the ugly bastard on the tv before be prepared for a lot more now1

Tice comes across a bit odious whereas Farage comes across alright. Even if you disagree with him you can't deny he has some appeal.

Conspiracy theory - maybe something is about to break about Richard Tice. Maybe there are pictures of him with Prince Andrew or something terrible like that.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

31 minutes ago, whelk said:

I can’t get into the mind of a typical Reform voter, but why the fuck is Farage at the helm going to pull in many more voters than Tice? 
Well boys if you were getting annoyed at seeing the ugly bastard on the tv before be prepared for a lot more now

 

I took a peek at their site (the reform voter whose mind I was going to look at, managed to escape my lab). They wish we were called Albion, so they could get MAGA in there.

The usual surface level traps of better economy, NHS, public sector, lower energy bills. "Well gosh, that all sound great. Those other parties must not want any of that! Tell me more!"

Drilling down a level is more personal. I'll probably find the odd thing in there, I'd agree with. A few more where they have a point but don't agree with their steps. But the devil's in the detail, how they do it and who is actually benefitting.

[AlexLaw76]

I wonder if the PM will even make the election

[CB Fry]

56 minutes ago, whelk said:

I can’t get into the mind of a typical Reform voter, but why the fuck is Farage at the helm going to pull in many more voters than Tice? 
Well boys if you were getting annoyed at seeing the ugly bastard on the tv before be prepared for a lot more now1

The boy has got charisma and he presents his simple "common sense" solutions very well.

RichardTice hasn't and doesn't.

Reform will definitely take votes from Labour but will take loads more from the Tories, enough to hand seats to Labour. Basically Rishi has got one hell of a headache now.

[The Kraken]

56 minutes ago, whelk said:

I can’t get into the mind of a typical Reform voter, but why the fuck is Farage at the helm going to pull in many more voters than Tice? 
Well boys if you were getting annoyed at seeing the ugly bastard on the tv before be prepared for a lot more now1

Personally I don’t think it’ll make that much of a bump. I can’t see there’s a huge swathe of voters who will think “ah, Nigel is actually standing as an MP, I’m going to vote for them now”. It’ll have a big effect locally in Clacton I’m sure, but nationally I can’t see anything more than 1%-2% if that. Visually Farage was always the party anyway.

I’ll definitely laugh my socks off if he fails to get elected yet again. Frog faced bellend.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

6 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Personally I don’t think it’ll make that much of a bump. I can’t see there’s a huge swathe of voters who will think “ah, Nigel is actually standing as an MP, I’m going to vote for them now”. It’ll have a big effect locally in Clacton I’m sure, but nationally I can’t see anything more than 1%-2% if that. Visually Farage was always the party anyway.

I’ll definitely laugh my socks off if he fails to get elected yet again. Frog faced bellend.

Surely the text on his campaign poster. 🙂

Oh, just listening to him now. Let's see if enough of his millions are in Clacton.

[whelk]

49 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Tice comes across a bit odious whereas Farage comes across alright. Even if you disagree with him you can't deny he has some appeal.

Conspiracy theory - maybe something is about to break about Richard Tice. Maybe there are pictures of him with Prince Andrew or something terrible like that.

Yeah I get has far more charisma than Tice but he was Chairman before today so assume he was/would be campaigning on Reform’s behalf anyway? I heard he was on QT so presumably as Reform’s rep.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

33 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I’ll definitely laugh my socks off if he fails to get elected yet again. Frog faced bellend.

With frogs and toads in mind,  one of the Wind in the Willows weasels , Ross Greer, says it's outrageous not to be invited to the STV debate tonight.

"We didn't infiltrate the Wild Wooders (Green Party), then Toad Hall (Shortbread Prentendy Parliament), to be ignored by a regional TV station," mewled Mr Greer.

[whelk]

Just caught the tail end of the Tory political broadcast. Fuck me I know they don’t have much to work with but desperate stuff. Rachel Reeves a serious threat to our security is she? Their mad press releases have done fuck all to move any polls. They can’t give up but better off playing to the British sense of feeling sorry for the underdog than the ridiculous scaremongering as if they are campaigning against Corbyn

[Holmes_and_Watson]

30 minutes ago, whelk said:

Just caught the tail end of the Tory political broadcast. Fuck me I know they don’t have much to work with but desperate stuff. Rachel Reeves a serious threat to our security is she? Their mad press releases have done fuck all to move any polls. They can’t give up but better off playing to the British sense of feeling sorry for the underdog than the ridiculous scaremongering as if they are campaigning against Corbyn

I caught the very tail end of someone on the Beeb asking someone if their leader would push the button. The interviewee said they supported Trident. "But would they press the button." It got to the point, the interviewer wasn't going to be happy unless Starmer nuked Belgium just to prove a point.

I'm sure faced with Armageddon, even Corbyn would have taken the most horrible of choices and pressed the button. Okay, it would be to launch Putin's missiles, but still... 🙂

[Fan The Flames]

59 minutes ago, whelk said:

Just caught the tail end of the Tory political broadcast. Fuck me I know they don’t have much to work with but desperate stuff. Rachel Reeves a serious threat to our security is she? Their mad press releases have done fuck all to move any polls. They can’t give up but better off playing to the British sense of feeling sorry for the underdog than the ridiculous scaremongering as if they are campaigning against Corbyn

A ex-campaign manager said on the radio that it appears the Tory's have moved from trying to win to trying to minimise the majority, so policies to appeal to older Tory voters who might have stayed at home on the 4th or vote Reform.

[badgerx16]

Cartoon on the front page of the Fail shows a newspaper billboard displaying ''Farage vows to destroy the Tories '' as 2 men walk past wearing blue rosettes saying ''We were doing a perfectly good job without him''.

[Gloucester Saint]

Latest polls grim for the Tories - Sky breakdown forecast based on the data seat by seat and when Grant Shapps/Michael Green was phoned to say his seat was at risk, he ended the call! https://news.sky.com/story/tory-support-has-fallen-most-in-areas-where-it-was-previously-highest-mrp-poll-suggests-13147397

Farage obviously thinks Trump will be a busted flush then. Mind you, grumbling about too many students doing social science degrees, anyone willing to guess what Farage’s son studied?

He is a character though and more of the Tories focus will now go on fighting him. Which is a problem as the FT reports this morning that three of their major donors have pulled the plug for this campaign. 

Edit - agree with Whelk that it was a bit underhand of Sky to call Shapps/Green as private and out it in air. 

Edited June 4 by Gloucester Saint

[whelk]

22 minutes ago, Gloucester Saint said:

Latest polls grim for the Tories - Sky breakdown forecast based on the data seat by seat and when Grant Shapps/Michael Green was phoned to say his seat was at risk, he ended the call! https://news.sky.com/story/tory-support-has-fallen-most-in-areas-where-it-was-previously-highest-mrp-poll-suggests-13147397

Farage obviously thinks Trump will be a busted flush then. Mind you, grumbling about too many students doing social science degrees, anyone willing to guess what Farage’s son studied?

He is a character though and more of the Tories focus will now go on fighting him. Which is a problem as the FT reports this morning that three of their major donors have pulled the plug for this campaign. 

Tbf to Schapps he was calling the Sky guy privately who was on air and he answered to tell him he was on air and he then hung up. So not the hiding in a fridge story some are making out

[Fan The Flames]

Farage, Clacton, Wetherspoons, all have the same ring to them.

[Weston Super Saint]

7 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Farage, Clacton, Wetherspoons, all have the same ring to them.

Does Farage do cheap breakfasts?

[Sheaf Saint]

51 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Does Farage do cheap breakfasts?

The one in Clacton does cheap milkshakes, apparently.

[AlexLaw76]

5 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

The one in Clacton does cheap milkshakes, apparently.

Pretty disgraceful behaviour to be fair 

[The Kraken]

Good on her.

[Lighthouse]

I can’t say that someone standing in a free, democratic election being physically harassed in public is something we should particularly celebrate. I’d rather we left that to the Russians, personally. Plus it’s totally counterproductive, Farage will basically just say, "oh look, the tolerant left are at it again," and his popularity will probably step up another notch.