The 2024 General Election - July 4th

[Fan The Flames]

25 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a load of old pony. “No significant electrol achievements” lol. How about winning 2 national elections in the past 10 years, & then winning the EU referendum. After Mrs T & Blair he’s the most influential political figure of the past 50 years. 
 

😂 It’s laughable that someone thinks a programme that has half wits like Russell Brand, Owen Jones & that fucking boring black poet on,  shouldn’t invite Nigel. 
 

 

Fuck me I agree with Ducker, it had to happen some time.

[Turkish]

5 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

The panel is made up in proportion to how the electorate voted in the last election. So not rigged, just happened that more people in the audience thought his ideas were shit.

What’s the point of being in the audience for a debate program if every time someone you don’t agree with opens their gob you’re up in arms about it before they’ve even finished their sentence?

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Because he's the front of Reform UK. I can't stand the fella, or his party, but we live in a democracy and there can't be any genuine complaint about him getting air time in the build up to the election. 

A lot of people in this country want to live in a democracy but only if the people they agree with are the ones allowed to speak 

[egg]

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

A lot of people in this country want to live in a democracy but only if the people they agree with are the ones allowed to speak 

Yep. Free speech is fine, as long as it's what people want to here. 

[aintforever]

It's important that Question Time has a broad range of views on it, even clowns like Farage should be able to have their say no matter how ridiculous/offensive their views. The audience generally reflects the electorate so if they get laughed at/shouted down it's probably just because they are talking shite.

[sadoldgit]

I don’t think anyone would have a problem with Richard Tice or Lee Anderson being on QT. Every week there are people who express contrary opinions on QT or all over the media for that matter. We might not like some opinions we hear but we do live in a society where they can be expressed. Most of the electorate do not vote Tory but most of our newspapers support the Tory Party and I don’t think there are any left leading “news” programmes on TV like GB News. We are free to challenge things we do not like to hear and we do. 
The problem with free speech is that blatant lies have been left unchallenged and have passed as truth. People like Trump, Johnson and, yes, Nigel Farage have used free speech to twist and distort facts to suit their own agendas. If you feel that you have a strong argument, put it out there as it is and let it stand or fall on its own merits. What is happening more and more now is that we are being misled by people well versed in playing on people’s fears and selling us an alternative reality. Who coined the term “alternative facts”? Trump?

I don’t have a problem with people like Farage having a say. I have a problem with them portraying themselves and their views as something they are not.

There still people who believe Johnson’s lies about the EU edict about straight bananas. I don’t think any of us will forget the lie printed across the campaign bus about giving the EU money to the NHS.

To me it’s not so much a question of not liking what I am hearing, it is about misinformation being deliberately fed to us as fact.

 

[badgerx16]

22 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I don’t think anyone would have a problem with Richard Tice or Lee Anderson being on QT. Every week there are people who express contrary opinions on QT or all over the media for that matter. We might not like some opinions we hear but we do live in a society where they can be expressed. Most of the electorate do not vote Tory but most of our newspapers support the Tory Party and I don’t think there are any left leading “news” programmes on TV like GB News. We are free to challenge things we do not like to hear and we do. 
The problem with free speech is that blatant lies have been left unchallenged and have passed as truth. People like Trump, Johnson and, yes, Nigel Farage have used free speech to twist and distort facts to suit their own agendas. If you feel that you have a strong argument, put it out there as it is and let it stand or fall on its own merits. What is happening more and more now is that we are being misled by people well versed in playing on people’s fears and selling us an alternative reality. Who coined the term “alternative facts”? Trump?

I don’t have a problem with people like Farage having a say. I have a problem with them portraying themselves and their views as something they are not.

There still people who believe Johnson’s lies about the EU edict about straight bananas. I don’t think any of us will forget the lie printed across the campaign bus about giving the EU money to the NHS.

To me it’s not so much a question of not liking what I am hearing, it is about misinformation being deliberately fed to us as fact.

 

Who is more culpable ? The one knowingly spreading disinformation or the one taking it as unchallenged fact.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

I don’t think anyone would have a problem with Richard Tice or Lee Anderson being on QT. Every week there are people who express contrary opinions on QT or all over the media for that matter. We might not like some opinions we hear but we do live in a society where they can be expressed. Most of the electorate do not vote Tory but most of our newspapers support the Tory Party and I don’t think there are any left leading “news” programmes on TV like GB News. We are free to challenge things we do not like to hear and we do. 
The problem with free speech is that blatant lies have been left unchallenged and have passed as truth. People like Trump, Johnson and, yes, Nigel Farage have used free speech to twist and distort facts to suit their own agendas. If you feel that you have a strong argument, put it out there as it is and let it stand or fall on its own merits. What is happening more and more now is that we are being misled by people well versed in playing on people’s fears and selling us an alternative reality. Who coined the term “alternative facts”? Trump?

I don’t have a problem with people like Farage having a say. I have a problem with them portraying themselves and their views as something they are not.

There still people who believe Johnson’s lies about the EU edict about straight bananas. I don’t think any of us will forget the lie printed across the campaign bus about giving the EU money to the NHS.

To me it’s not so much a question of not liking what I am hearing, it is about misinformation being deliberately fed to us as fact.

 

And “the left” always speak the gospel truth, correct?

 

[Turkish]

36 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Who is more culpable ? The one knowingly spreading disinformation or the one taking it as unchallenged fact.

Isn’t anyone who challenges stuff people want to agree with just a lunatic conspiracy theorist who should shut up and stop spreading disinformation though?

[egg]

38 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Who is more culpable ? The one knowingly spreading disinformation or the one taking it as unchallenged fact.

The former by a mile. It's a sad state of affairs when politicians so willingly lie, and we the public almost need to start with the presumption that we're being lied to. 

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

And “the left” always speak the gospel truth, correct?

 

I didn't read it as right only criticism. I'll change my view if it was. 

[Turkish]

10 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Nor did I.

Good man, I remember people boasting about how theyd immediately been put on furlough during the first lockdown. Now people are moaning about higher taxes whilst they took the free money soon as they could. Some even took second jobs to top up their wages. Despite the sneering dickheads on here the point is right the ones who didn’t benefit from it at all are in the same boat as everyone else but we aren’t  ones bleating about it blaming the government 

it’s also amusing sog accuses others of lying when he’s one of the biggest bullshitters on here 

Edited 31 May, 2024 by Turkish

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

I didn't read it as right only criticism. I'll change my view if it was. 

Look at the people he names. Plus he says there aren’t any left leading news programs like GB news (which he seems to spend a lot of time watching so he can moan about it) we all know what he meant. “The right” lie whilst “the left” doesn’t. The right being anyone sog disagrees with of course

[egg]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Good man, I remember people boasting about how theyd immediately been put on furlough during the first lockdown. Now people are moaning about higher taxes whilst they took the free money soon as they could. Some even took second jobs to top up their wages. the sneering dickheads on here the point is right the ones who didn’t benefit from it at all are in the same boat as everyone else but we seen the ones bleating about it blaming the government 

We'll be paying for it for the bulk of our lifetime. I'd love to know how many people/businesses who took the help actually needed it. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

It's important that Question Time has a broad range of views on it, even clowns like Farage should be able to have their say no matter how ridiculous/offensive their views. The audience generally reflects the electorate so if they get laughed at/shouted down it's probably just because they are talking shite.

Lolz.

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Nor did I.

Or me.

Mrs WSS on the other hand...  But she worked in retail and the shops were ordered to close so she had no choice.  Once they moved to 'online' sales and collect in shop, she was back to work.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

I don’t think anyone would have a problem with Richard Tice or Lee Anderson being on QT. Every week there are people who express contrary opinions on QT or all over the media for that matter. We might not like some opinions we hear but we do live in a society where they can be expressed. Most of the electorate do not vote Tory but most of our newspapers support the Tory Party and I don’t think there are any left leading “news” programmes on TV like GB News. We are free to challenge things we do not like to hear and we do. 
The problem with free speech is that blatant lies have been left unchallenged and have passed as truth. People like Trump, Johnson and, yes, Nigel Farage have used free speech to twist and distort facts to suit their own agendas. If you feel that you have a strong argument, put it out there as it is and let it stand or fall on its own merits. What is happening more and more now is that we are being misled by people well versed in playing on people’s fears and selling us an alternative reality. Who coined the term “alternative facts”? Trump?

I don’t have a problem with people like Farage having a say. I have a problem with them portraying themselves and their views as something they are not.

There still people who believe Johnson’s lies about the EU edict about straight bananas. I don’t think any of us will forget the lie printed across the campaign bus about giving the EU money to the NHS.

To me it’s not so much a question of not liking what I am hearing, it is about misinformation being deliberately fed to us as fact.

 

What a load of old pony. 
 

 

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a load of old pony. 
 

 

Does your keyboard have a hot key for that phrase ?

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Who is more culpable ? The one knowingly spreading disinformation or the one taking it as unchallenged fact.

Good question. There was a time when it was unacceptable for politicians to tell outright lies. Yes, they would evade questions, answer questions that hadn’t been asked or be “economical with the truth” (which just fell short of an outright lie). You certainly wouldn’t expect the President of the US or the UK Prime Minister to stand on a platform and tell outright lies. How times have changed.

In answer to your question, the former is most culpable but we know enough now not to accept everything as gospel and to fact check everything as far as we are able.

There are a number of people now that it is pretty safe to assume that most of what they say is BS. We have heard a very long, incoherent ramble from one this afternoon.

[egg]

13 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a load of old pony. 
 

 

Elaborate please. 

[AlexLaw76]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Good question. There was a time when it was unacceptable for politicians to tell outright lies. Yes, they would evade questions, answer questions that hadn’t been asked or be “economical with the truth” (which just fell short of an outright lie). You certainly wouldn’t expect the President of the US or the UK Prime Minister to stand on a platform and tell outright lies. How times have changed.

In answer to your question, the former is most culpable but we know enough now not to accept everything as gospel and to fact check everything as far as we are able.

There are a number of people now that it is pretty safe to assume that most of what they say is BS. We have heard a very long, incoherent ramble from one this afternoon.

Remember when Tony Blair told us that Iraq could launch WMD within 45 mins. That was a whopper

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Who is more culpable ? The one knowingly spreading disinformation or the one taking it as unchallenged fact.

Every political “lie” has an element of truth to it, that’s politics. Starmer told the Labour Party he’d stick closely to the 2019 manifesto, pledged he’d abolish tuition fees and called Corbyn a friend. Was he lying or have circumstances changed. Supporters will say he did what was necessary to make the party electable, opponents that he lied. Fucking hell, the masters of political “lying” were New Labour, but people weren’t ranting and raving about that (until Iraq). 
 

People like Soggy are obsessed with what was written on a friggin bus, yet ignore the lies told by their side of the debate. They are so convinced of their superiority & righteousness they think  people who don’t share their view are lying or being taken in by lies. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

23 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Does your keyboard have a hot key for that phrase ?

Yep, Ctrl+SOG

[Lord Duckhunter]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

Elaborate please. 

It’s a load of old pony. 
 

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Who is more culpable ? The one knowingly spreading disinformation or the one taking it as unchallenged fact.

Darn. Every time I'm about to become a Jedi Knight, it's one of these questions...

 

[Fan The Flames]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

What’s the point of being in the audience for a debate program if every time someone you don’t agree with opens their gob you’re up in arms about it before they’ve even finished their sentence?

I don't remember people being up in arms in the audience, they were outside. There were jeers and groans at the stuff he said, after all there was a lot of background noise before the show and 98% of people didn't support his views.

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Good man, I remember people boasting about how theyd immediately been put on furlough during the first lockdown. Now people are moaning about higher taxes whilst they took the free money soon as they could. Some even took second jobs to top up their wages. Despite the sneering dickheads on here the point is right the ones who didn’t benefit from it at all are in the same boat as everyone else but we aren’t  ones bleating about it blaming the government 

You seem very angry about this. You do know that most workers weren't on furlough, 75% of workers worked through and I'm sure they hold a range of views about furlough and tax levels just like those on furlough do.

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

There are a number of people now that it is pretty safe to assume that most of what they say is BS.

Indeed.

[Wade Garrett]

18 hours ago, Turkish said:

People have short memories. Huge pressure to get PPE sorted, remember the order from Turkey I think it was that when it arrived wasn’t fit for purpose. So bring it back to this country to also boost the economy and that’s wrong too as it was just giving contracts to their mates. 
 

People seem to forget that whilst they were all loving life on furlough it all had to be paid back one day. I never took a penny on furlough money worked all through and even worked through both times I had Covid. If anyone should be complaining it’s those of us who didn’t benefit from it at all, but we don’t we get on with it and make our corner of the world as fucking brilliant as we can, some might call that an I’m alright jack attitude others would say  that’s what winners do and sets us apart from the woe is me brigade who have to use clap for carers as a captive audience do their neighbours will speak to them 

Not taking furlough money isn’t a badge of honour.  I was lucky that my company carried on working as normal through the whole pandemic and so did I.  Personally, I think I was one of the lucky ones.

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Not taking furlough money isn’t a badge of honour.  I was lucky that my company carried on working as normal through the whole pandemic and so did I.  Personally, I think I was one of the lucky ones.

I think back to the May of that year when the Government ordered the really hot weather.

I'm not jealous that Mrs WSS was in the garden sunbathing all day - after all, I was in the car driving on empty roads with the Aircon set just right 😎

[Turkish]

27 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Not taking furlough money isn’t a badge of honour.  I was lucky that my company carried on working as normal through the whole pandemic and so did I.  Personally, I think I was one of the lucky ones.

It was to some. Some loved it, some wanted more locked down and for longer. 

Edited 31 May, 2024 by Turkish

[Turkish]

57 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

You seem very angry about this. You do know that most workers weren't on furlough, 75% of workers worked through and I'm sure they hold a range of views about furlough and tax levels just like those on furlough do.

lol Im Not angry about it at all. Amusing how you claim that from a measured post of the subject but it’s a very simple rule if you borrow something you have to pay it back at some point. So why are people whinging about taxes? However Some of us didn’t borrow anything but still have to pay it back though…

Edited 31 May, 2024 by Turkish

[Fan The Flames]

34 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I think back to the May of that year when the Government ordered the really hot weather.

I'm not jealous that Mrs WSS was in the garden sunbathing all day - after all, I was in the car driving on empty roads with the Aircon set just right 😎

When the world deals you lemons....

Driving to work was lovely, bosses at home, knocking off early, loads of bbqs in the evening, restaurant take aways, repairing the overdraft. If it wasn't for the awfulness in other people's lives I would say I was nostalgic for it.

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Good question. There was a time when it was unacceptable for politicians to tell outright lies. Yes, they would evade questions, answer questions that hadn’t been asked or be “economical with the truth” (which just fell short of an outright lie). You certainly wouldn’t expect the President of the US or the UK Prime Minister to stand on a platform and tell outright lies. How times have changed.

In answer to your question, the former is most culpable but we know enough now not to accept everything as gospel and to fact check everything as far as we are able.

There are a number of people now that it is pretty safe to assume that most of what they say is BS. We have heard a very long, incoherent ramble from one this afternoon.

This. Remind us all about that career you spent prosecuting knife crime again, or was it rape? When you were telling that little Walter Mitty story you seemed to confuse yourself 

Edited 31 May, 2024 by Turkish

[Wade Garrett]

32 minutes ago, Turkish said:

lol Im Not angry about it at all. Amusing how you claim that from a measured post of the subject but it’s a very simple rule if you borrow something you have to pay it back at some point. So why are people whinging about taxes? However Some of us didn’t borrow anything but still have to pay it back though…

That’s a good point to ge fair.  The money has to be paid back.  The economy is flatlining at the moment under Rishi and his pals.  The Truss regime has a hell of a lot to answer for as well.  £47billion spent propping up government bonds really didn’t help.

[Fan The Flames]

28 minutes ago, Turkish said:

lol Im Not angry about it at all. Amusing how you claim that from a measured post of the subject but it’s a very simple rule if you borrow something you have to pay it back at some point. So why are people whinging about taxes? However Some of us didn’t borrow anything but still have to pay it back though…

That's how it read and you've mentioned it a few times. People will always moan about taxes, especially the very vocal economic liberatians, who think it stifles growth.

I work on the principle that furlough stopped the economy tanking, because if it did we would all have paid the price anyway. Cash well spent by the Saints boy, could only have been done by a tory government, imagine the backlash if a Labour government did it.

Now the PPE contracts to mates is a different story, total disgrace, again imagine the backlash if a Labour government lined the pockets of their mates.

[buctootim]

The convention amongst both parties used to be that you increased spending when the economy was in trouble and paid back the debt accumulated when it was doing well. Since 2008 we've had the financial crash, covid and the energy price shock along with almost zero growth - and yet people still expect tax cuts 

[buctootim]

[Danbert]

20 hours ago, egg said:

Why shouldn't the owner of Reform be put forward as it's mouthpiece? It's not as though they have MP's, yet. 

Political parties shouldn't have owners, they should represent their members' interests.

At elections we choose our representatives who we hold to account when they vote in Parliament. If Farage isn't prepared to stand for election, his opinions are not relevant.

[AlexLaw76]

11 minutes ago, Danbert said:

Political parties shouldn't have owners, they should represent their members' interests.

At elections we choose our representatives who we hold to account when they vote in Parliament. If Farage isn't prepared to stand for election, his opinions are not relevant.

Loads of people who are not standing and have 'opinions' are given a platform.

[egg]

8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Loads of people who are not standing and have 'opinions' are given a platform.

Yep. Peoples objections to people from the left or right having a platform probably align with their political allegiances. Reform can shove anyone forward for all I care, ditto the others. It's about getting their principles out there, who the personality is giving the message is irrelevant imo. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Danbert said:

If Farage isn't prepared to stand for election, his opinions are not relevant.

What a crock of pony.

What’s standing got to do with it? 

David Cameron isn’t standing, yet as former PM & Foreign Secretary you’re saying he shouldn’t be on QT. Gordon Brown, Nick Clegg, Alan Johnson, none of their opinions are valid?

I’d bet my last dollar you only made that point because you don’t like Nigel, which actually makes your opinion “not relevant”, as it’s based on prejudice. 

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, Danbert said:

Political parties shouldn't have owners, they should represent their members' interests.

At elections we choose our representatives who we hold to account when they vote in Parliament. If Farage isn't prepared to stand for election, his opinions are not relevant.

Everyone's opinion is relevant, that really is the core value of a general election.

[Weston Super Saint]

3 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Everyone's opinion is relevant, that really is the core value of a general election.

Except lettuce Liz. No loony opinion of hers is relevant.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

18 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Except lettuce Liz. No loony opinion of hers is relevant.

Oh noes! Weston's been captured by the Deep State!

#let(tice)LizSpeak!  🙂

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Yep. Peoples objections to people from the left or right having a platform probably align with their political allegiances. Reform can shove anyone forward for all I care, ditto the others. It's about getting their principles out there, who the personality is giving the message is irrelevant imo. 

My issue with Farage in particular is that he wants, and gets, the best of both worlds. He wants to be a political commentator and the mouthpiece of a political party. Be one or be the other.

He also gets a disproportionate amount of media exposure compared to the representatives of the other minority political parties. He plays the media like a (very poorly tuned) violin and they let him do it.

He is box office, like Trump. Talking of whom, when Farage has finished pulling the Tory Party apart and turning them into a bigger vehicle for the far right, he will be off to take the Trump shilling and do his best to ruin further the US. Gotta love democracy 🫡.

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

My issue with Farage in particular is that he wants, and gets, the best of both worlds. He wants to be a political commentator and the mouthpiece of a political party. Be one or be the other.

He also gets a disproportionate amount of media exposure compared to the representatives of the other minority political parties. He plays the media like a (very poorly tuned) violin and they let him do it.

He is box office, like Trump. Talking of whom, when Farage has finished pulling the Tory Party apart and turning them into a bigger vehicle for the far right, he will be off to take the Trump shilling and do his best to ruin further the US. Gotta love democracy 🫡.

Wow.  He seems like a VERY powerful man.  He can do all that!

You seem jealous.

[egg]

5 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

My issue with Farage in particular is that he wants, and gets, the best of both worlds. He wants to be a political commentator and the mouthpiece of a political party. Be one or be the other.

He also gets a disproportionate amount of media exposure compared to the representatives of the other minority political parties. He plays the media like a (very poorly tuned) violin and they let him do it.

He is box office, like Trump. Talking of whom, when Farage has finished pulling the Tory Party apart and turning them into a bigger vehicle for the far right, he will be off to take the Trump shilling and do his best to ruin further the US. Gotta love democracy 🫡.

Why can't a mouthpiece also be a commentator? 

Parties can put out anyone they want, and it's for them to determine whether it's overload of one person, or a wider spread. In a bigger party, clearly there are more options.

Personally, I think Farage is a loathsome prick and the more I see and hear of him, the more harm I think he does for his parties cause. If his party feel otherwise, that's their call. 

[Sheaf Saint]

All you lot discussing the relative rights and wrongs of Farage appearing on QT yet again are seemingly blissfully unaware that you are feeding into the very reason why he has been on it so many times.

That reason being that he is a highly controversial, divisive personality whose very appearance is intended to provoke public debate (like this one) and boost viewing figures.

It's why I don't bother watching anymore. It's just pointless pantomime designed to generate headlines.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

All you lot discussing the relative rights and wrongs of Farage appearing on QT yet again are seemingly blissfully unaware that you are feeding into the very reason why he has been on it so many times.

That reason being that he is a highly controversial, divisive personality whose very appearance is intended to provoke public debate (like this one) and boost viewing figures.

It's why I don't bother watching anymore. It's just pointless pantomime designed to generate headlines.

Isn’t that TV and the media in general? If no one watched it they’d stop showing it.