The 2024 General Election - July 4th

[Turkish]

34 minutes ago, whelk said:

Yeah but his point is maybe they can’t afford a nice house and need to make do with something more affordable 

Correct. cut your cloth according to your means.

So many people getting themselves in serious debt to try and impress other people with what they have or thinking they are entitled to have certain things. 

[Sheaf Saint]

48 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Yes and the reason given was because they’ve got mortgages they’re struggling to pay. Maybe they should look closer to home for the reason why rather than blaming external factors that they can’t control. 

And what if the reason they are struggling to repay their mortgage once rates rise is because they've been subjected to year upon year of below inflation wage increases? Is that still their own fault?

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

And what if the reason they are struggling to repay their mortgage once rates rise is because they've been subjected to year upon year of below inflation wage increases? Is that still their own fault?

Maybe. You can change your job. Generally the best way to get a decent pay rise is to change companies every few years.

 

You're not a tree, you can move.

Edited March 15 by Turkish

[Colinjb]

13 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Maybe. You can change your job. Generally the best way to get a decent pay rise is to change companies every few years.

 

You're not a tree, you can move.

Depends on the profession. If you are a classroom teacher on a set payscale, that doesn't work. 

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

Depends on the profession. If you are a classroom teacher on a set payscale, that doesn't work. 

You work 5 hours a day and have 13 weeks holiday a year, you could easily supplement your income with another part time job 

[badgerx16]

21 minutes ago, Turkish said:

You work 5 hours a day and have 13 weeks holiday a year, you could easily supplement your income with another part time job 

You clearly have no idea.

[Colinjb]

43 minutes ago, Turkish said:

You work 5 hours a day and have 13 weeks holiday a year, 

Wanting to stay at step one are you? 

 

Actually. I take it back, you wouldn't get past your SCITT year with that attitude. 

Edited March 15 by Colinjb

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Yeah but his point is maybe they can’t afford a nice house and need to make do with something more affordable 

I don’t think that’s fair. It’s incredibly hard for young people nowadays to get on the ladder compared to when I brought my first house, even for those with half decent jobs who are careful with their money. Renting is just throwing money down the drain so it’s only natural that many will be maxed out already and hit hard by the rate rise.

Comparatively me and my parents generation have had it piss easy, many sat on massive equity with decent pensions just through riding the house bubble.

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I don’t think that’s fair. It’s incredibly hard for young people nowadays to get on the ladder compared to when I brought my first house, even for those with half decent jobs who are careful with their money. Renting is just throwing money down the drain so it’s only natural that many will be maxed out already and hit hard by the rate rise.

Comparatively me and my parents generation have had it piss easy, many sat on massive equity with decent pensions just through riding the house bubble.

A myth. There are currently 342 properties on rightmove in Southampton minimum of 2 bedrooms price range between £150-£250k. A young couple with a wage of £20-25k each could easily afford one of those if they wanted to.

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Yes and the reason given was because they’ve got mortgages they’re struggling to pay. Maybe they should look closer to home for the reason why rather than blaming external factors that they can’t control. 

But people don't make reasonable judgements when they come to vote, people voted for Brexit because their council is shit, for John Major because Kinnock had ginger hair.

Someone sees their mortgage go up by £750 because of Truss, they're going to think fuck the Tories, they are not going to stop and think 'well you know what those Tories aren't a bad bunch really, afterall we weren't prudent enough and didn't stress test our finances, I'm going to jolly well vote for them and not be so silly in the future'.

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

But people don't make reasonable judgements when they come to vote, people voted for Brexit because their council is shit, for John Major because Kinnock had ginger hair.

Someone sees their mortgage go up by £750 because of Truss, they're going to think fuck the Tories, they are not going to stop and think 'well you know what those Tories aren't a bad bunch really, afterall we weren't prudent enough and didn't stress test our finances, I'm going to jolly well vote for them and not be so silly in the future'.

yep, because it's a lot more comforting for people to blame other things than taking responsibility for their own actions, as you so succinctly described it, which is what i said at the start. Thanks for proving my point.

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Yeah but his point is maybe they can’t afford a nice house and need to make do with something more affordable 

I couldn't really afford the first flat I bought but it was still the best thing I did, housing wise. People get the mortgages that lenders are willing to lend and what they can afford to pay at the time just to get on the ladder or buy the bigger house they need. It's how it's always been, then you hope for the best. Maybe older people with a lot of equity forget how it was.

Most people can handle an interest rate rise, by tightening their belts or not going on holiday, it doesn't stop them being pissed off by it.

[aintforever]

51 minutes ago, Turkish said:

A myth. There are currently 342 properties on rightmove in Southampton minimum of 2 bedrooms price range between £150-£250k. A young couple with a wage of £20-25k each could easily afford one of those if they wanted to.

Maybe, but they would probably have to save for a deposit.

When I brought my first house I had not long left uni and barely had a penny to my name. I got a 101% mortgage and brought a 3 bed in that range. As I said, we had it piss easy in comparison.

Edited March 15 by aintforever

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Maybe, but they would probably have to save for a deposit.

When I brought my first house I had not long left uni and barely had a penny to my name. I got a 101% mortgage and brought a 3 bed in that range. As I said, we had it piss easy in comparison.

Not everyone did. I was renting when i bought my first house. I took another job for a year to save a deposit working two-three evenings a week and at weekends and saved every penny along with other savings from our wages and making some sacrifices, having not much of a social life for a year and no luxuries. Because we wanted it enough to make it happen, the short term effort was worth it. Sadly a lot of people moan about their lot in life blaming everyone else but cant be arsed to change it for themselves.

[aintforever]

17 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Not everyone did. I was renting when i bought my first house. I took another job for a year to save a deposit working two-three evenings a week and at weekends and saved every penny along with other savings from our wages and making some sacrifices, having not much of a social life for a year and no luxuries. Because we wanted it enough to make it happen, the short term effort was worth it. Sadly a lot of people moan about their lot in life blaming everyone else but cant be arsed to change it for themselves.

It would be harder for someone in that situation today.

Edited March 15 by aintforever

[Turkish]

16 minutes ago, aintforever said:

It would be harder for someone in that situation today.

How?

[whelk]

38 minutes ago, aintforever said:

As I said, we had it piss easy in comparison.

Absolutely. Current generation absolutely fucked in comparison regarding owning property. One of my daughters pays £1000 pm for pissy little flat in shit area and money down the pisser. And yes I know cheaper options but kills me the expense they have

[whelk]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

How?

It is much harder. I agree with you on not overstretching but house prices have massively outstripped wage growth in last 25 years

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

It is much harder. I agree with you on not overstretching but house prices have massively outstripped wage growth in last 25 years

As I said earlier there are hundreds of properties in Southampton between 150k-250k, I saved up a deposit of a 210k house when wages were a lot lower than they are now whilst also renting a 3 bed house. I did it by taking on another job for a year and cutting back on all luxuries. 
 

a couple earning 20-25k each, significantly below the average wage for area, could easily get and afford a mortgage for that amount. 

They might have to make a few sacrifices to get a deposit together but that’s life. 

Edited March 15 by Turkish

[Fan The Flames]

56 minutes ago, Turkish said:

yep, because it's a lot more comforting for people to blame other things than taking responsibility for their own actions, as you so succinctly described it, which is what i said at the start. Thanks for proving my point.

Proving your point is to a bit of a leap. What are they going to blame themselves for, they don't control the interest rates. People will just tighten their belts and if it gets too much they will sell up. Over stretching yourself isn't this big life no no, for most people it works out ok.

You've made your life choices and they've worked for you, you've prioritised other spending over house spending. Others have chosen to do things to the other way around and are entitled to be disgruntled if some loony makes the waters a bit more choppy for political experimentation.

[Turkish]

25 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Proving your point is to a bit of a leap. What are they going to blame themselves for, they don't control the interest rates. People will just tighten their belts and if it gets too much they will sell up. Over stretching yourself isn't this big life no no, for most people it works out ok.

You've made your life choices and they've worked for you, you've prioritised other spending over house spending. Others have chosen to do things to the other way around and are entitled to be disgruntled if some loony makes the waters a bit more choppy for political experimentation.

A simple look at historical interest rates tells you that they go up and down so if they’re at record lows there is only one direction they’re going to go in. 
 

taking out any sort of long term borrowing where you’re stretching yourself already and can be impacted by a change circumstances or interest rates is highly irresponsible. but rather than people admitting they were stupid to take on more than they can afford it much easier to blame someone else. I’m not really sure why that’s so hard to understand. 

 

Edited March 16 by Turkish

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

How?

Because, even ignoring the rise in house prices and cost of living, it’s not as easy to get a mortgage now as it was in the 90s when I got on the ladder. Buying a house for me was actually easier than renting. To rent you usually needed to pay a months rent deposit plus a months rent up front to even get a place. I bought a house when I had next to nothing in the bank, that’s just impossible today.

[Tamesaint]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

You work 5 hours a day and have 13 weeks holiday a year, you could easily supplement your income with another part time job 

I don’t disagree with many of the points that you make on this thread but then you write this bollocks which makes  you look a right tit. 

# tryingtoohardtotroll

[Turkish]

6 hours ago, aintforever said:

Because, even ignoring the rise in house prices and cost of living, it’s not as easy to get a mortgage now as it was in the 90s when I got on the ladder. Buying a house for me was actually easier than renting. To rent you usually needed to pay a months rent deposit plus a months rent up front to even get a place. I bought a house when I had next to nothing in the bank, that’s just impossible today.

Still ignoring that there are literally hundreds of properties in Southampton alone that are easily affordable for people on a wage below the local average?

there is a reason why 100%+ mortgages don’t exist anymore. Because it was highly irresponsible from the lenders. Bit like being able to self certify your wages. I know someone who claimed they earned £50k when they barely got half that in the days when all you had to do was tick a box that said what you were saying is true. People might moan about but The fact that it’s a bit harder to get mortgage now is due to stricter regulations and affordability checks so we don’t have a repeat of the sub prime credit crunch in the 2008. Which can only be a good thing.

its a matter of priorities. If you want to make something happen you can but you’ll have to sacrifice a few other things for a while along the way. We have a very entitled population now that want it all now. And of all else fails we can always blame the government

 

Edited March 16 by Turkish

[Turkish]

5 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

I don’t disagree with many of the points that you make on this thread but then you write this bollocks which makes  you look a right tit. 

# tryingtoohardtotroll

Says the guy that thinks SOG is the greatest WUM on the planet 🤣

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, whelk said:

Absolutely. Current generation absolutely fucked in comparison regarding owning property. One of my daughters pays £1000 pm for pissy little flat in shit area and money down the pisser. And yes I know cheaper options but kills me the expense they have

Indeed.  But the current generation will (eventually) inherit our properties and the massive equity that has been built up over the years.  Although I imagine the same people that currently can't afford their mortgages will be the same ones opting for the equity release schemes once the mortgage is paid and will doubtless be wondering where all the money went!

[Weston Super Saint]

12 hours ago, aintforever said:

There are all sorts of reasons why people vote how they do, if people feel worse off it generally doesn’t help the party in power, that is just obvious. 

And yet you chose this as the primary reason 

 

16 hours ago, aintforever said:

Also, with every month that goes by there are thousands more people who are worse off because they have had to renew their mortgage.

 

 

[aintforever]

4 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

And yet you chose this as the primary reason 

 

 

 

Never said it was the primary reason, it’s just a factor that will make a difference.

Great point as usual tho 

[Weston Super Saint]

12 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Life is a gamble and people have to take on a big loan in order to buy a house and people have to take it on the chin if the interest rates go on.

And if happens they are going to bitch and moan about the thing that caused it and if that thing is a political party they are probably not going to vote for them. That was the point.

Most large spikes in interest rates are caused by world event outside of the UK governments control. This one was caused solely by Truss and her ridiculous sixth form fantasy economics. It should be no surprise that a lot of people won't vote for the tories because of it, whatever the rights and wrongs of personal financial responsibility.

Wow.  Just wow.

Spectacularly missing the point of macro economics whilst spectacularly overestimating Lettuce Liz's ability to influence anything.  Whilst Kwasi's budget was an unfunded fuck up that certainly startled the financial institutions, within a couple of weeks of them being ousted the markets calmed down to where they were.

For some reason you acknowledge that interest rate rises are world events, but then completely ignore :

Russia's special military operation - causing oil prices to rise, gas shortages across Europe as the Russian market is cut off, massive price rises for energy across Europe for businesses and customers.

Fuel price increases - causing the price at the pumps to rise and the cost of transporting goods to increase, whilst also having the added benefit of increasing the cost to make food and packaging raising the prices of literally everything in the shops.

The BoE has a job to cut inflation - caused by fuel and energy cost increases - the only way to do that is take money out of the economy by raising interest rates.

Liz Truss was, and still is, a complete blithering idiot, but she didn't cause a global recession and interest rates to rise - they had already been increasing steadily for a year before she became PM.

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Never said it was the primary reason, it’s just a factor that will make a difference.

Great point as usual tho 

Yep, right-oh.

I look forward to the inevitable name calling and laughing emojis!

 

13 hours ago, aintforever said:

I wasn’t moaning about my mortgage, I’m on a fixed for a while yet.

My point was that if people are struggling financially they tend to take it out on the party in power when they vote. I would imagine they will this time particularly given how the Conservatives crashed the economy so spectacularly causing rates to shoot up.

That spell it out clearly enough for you or do you want me to draw some pictures with crayons?

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Wow.  Just wow.

Spectacularly missing the point of macro economics whilst spectacularly overestimating Lettuce Liz's ability to influence anything.  Whilst Kwasi's budget was an unfunded fuck up that certainly startled the financial institutions, within a couple of weeks of them being ousted the markets calmed down to where they were.

For some reason you acknowledge that interest rate rises are world events, but then completely ignore :

Russia's special military operation - causing oil prices to rise, gas shortages across Europe as the Russian market is cut off, massive price rises for energy across Europe for businesses and customers.

Fuel price increases - causing the price at the pumps to rise and the cost of transporting goods to increase, whilst also having the added benefit of increasing the cost to make food and packaging raising the prices of literally everything in the shops.

The BoE has a job to cut inflation - caused by fuel and energy cost increases - the only way to do that is take money out of the economy by raising interest rates.

Liz Truss was, and still is, a complete blithering idiot, but she didn't cause a global recession and interest rates to rise - they had already been increasing steadily for a year before she became PM.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/26/fed-raises-interest-rates
 

this must be down the Liz Truss as well. Who’d have thought it. 

[Turkish]

Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

Yep, right-oh.

I look forward to the inevitable name calling and laughing emojis!

 

Maybe you need to get the crayons out for him?

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/26/fed-raises-interest-rates
 

this must be down the Liz Truss as well. Who’d have thought it. 

She's been on a world tour causing inflation and interest rises wherever she goes.  Very powerful and influential is our lettuce Liz.

[Weston Super Saint]

The next Tory leader?

 

[The Kraken]

If Penny could just stand there with heaving bust and sword firmly clenched in her hand saying nothing, I think she’d garner the interest of millions.

She’d then promptly lose all of that interest when she opens her trap and people realise she’s actually a complete headbanger with not much going on up top.

 

[aintforever]

50 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Wow.  Just wow.

Spectacularly missing the point of macro economics whilst spectacularly overestimating Lettuce Liz's ability to influence anything.  Whilst Kwasi's budget was an unfunded fuck up that certainly startled the financial institutions, within a couple of weeks of them being ousted the markets calmed down to where they were.

For some reason you acknowledge that interest rate rises are world events, but then completely ignore :

Russia's special military operation - causing oil prices to rise, gas shortages across Europe as the Russian market is cut off, massive price rises for energy across Europe for businesses and customers.

Fuel price increases - causing the price at the pumps to rise and the cost of transporting goods to increase, whilst also having the added benefit of increasing the cost to make food and packaging raising the prices of literally everything in the shops.

The BoE has a job to cut inflation - caused by fuel and energy cost increases - the only way to do that is take money out of the economy by raising interest rates.

Liz Truss was, and still is, a complete blithering idiot, but she didn't cause a global recession and interest rates to rise - they had already been increasing steadily for a year before she became PM.

Gordon Brown didn’t cause the financial crash but it didn’t work out too well for him. Fact is many people vote for selfish reasons and if they feel like they are worse off they are less likely to vote for the incumbent.

The Conservatives try and win votes by painting themselves as the experts on the economy yet come ballot time everyone will remember this:

[Sheaf Saint]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Fact is many people vote for selfish reasons and if they feel like they are worse off they are less likely to vote for the incumbent.

This is the long and short of it. For many people, the way to express dissatisfaction at the status quo is to vote against it, without thinking about what they are actually voting for.

I vividly remember the vox pops after the Brexit vote, where numerous people said they didn't care whether we stayed in the EU or not, but they voted leave purely because they didn't like David Cameron's government and blindly believed that voting for a change would improve things.

So we can argue all we like about whether people should be more financially responsible, but it doesn't change the fact that plenty of people aren't and will blame the government for their current situation regardless.

[whelk]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

If Penny could just stand there with heaving bust and sword firmly clenched in her hand saying nothing, I think she’d garner the interest of millions.

She’d then promptly lose all of that interest when she opens her trap and people realise she’s actually a complete headbanger with not much going on up top.

 

I actually thought she wasn’t a totally mental Tory until she came up with the fight bs. I always wondered if as you got older you’d fancy the same age group ie does a 75 yo go phwoar at a fellow 75yo? Definitely have a thing for Penny

[Lighthouse]

On 15/03/2024 at 10:24, rallyboy said:

Yes, there's her.....and Suella, the lovely Katie Hopkins, Ann Widdecombe....quite a list of hotties.

I was thinking more Penny, Priti, Palin and Begum.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, aintforever said:

Gordon Brown didn’t cause the financial crash but it didn’t work out too well for him. Fact is many people vote for selfish reasons and if they feel like they are worse off they are less likely to vote for the incumbent.

The Conservatives try and win votes by painting themselves as the experts on the economy yet come ballot time everyone will remember this:

I'm not really sure why you're now trying to mansplain this!  It is something we all know.

What that doesn't show is that people will vote Labour because they were too stupid to understand that their mortgage would go up, like you previously claimed.

Good to see you're finally coming round to the notion that people will vote to express their dissatisfaction at a range of things.  Eventually you might even get round to the really important issues like schools and public services.

[Fan The Flames]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I'm not really sure why you're now trying to mansplain this!  It is something we all know.

What that doesn't show is that people will vote Labour because they were too stupid to understand that their mortgage would go up, like you previously claimed.

Good to see you're finally coming round to the notion that people will vote to express their dissatisfaction at a range of things.  Eventually you might even get round to the really important issues like schools and public services.

Still missing the point 🤣

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, aintforever said:

Gordon Brown didn’t cause the financial crash but it didn’t work out too well for him. Fact is many people vote for selfish reasons and if they feel like they are worse off they are less likely to vote for the incumbent.

The Conservatives try and win votes by painting themselves as the experts on the economy yet come ballot time everyone will remember this:

🤣 Gordon brown didn’t cause the financial crash but Liz Truss is solely responsible for global rise in interest rates. Fuck me 

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

This is the long and short of it. For many people, the way to express dissatisfaction at the status quo is to vote against it, without thinking about what they are actually voting for.

I vividly remember the vox pops after the Brexit vote, where numerous people said they didn't care whether we stayed in the EU or not, but they voted leave purely because they didn't like David Cameron's government and blindly believed that voting for a change would improve things.

So we can argue all we like about whether people should be more financially responsible, but it doesn't change the fact that plenty of people aren't and will blame the government for their current situation regardless.

No one claimed otherwise. 

[Fan The Flames]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

🤣 Gordon brown didn’t cause the financial crash but Liz Truss is solely responsible for global rise in interest rates. Fuck me 

Aintforever didn't say solely, I did. Which I admit was an exaggeration. Yes interest rates were affected by energy ect, I consider myself school by the Saintsweb brains. But it's estimated she caused 2% increase to mortgages, which is massive.

When you think about it as the rate was rising, it makes her moves even worse. People who had head room to cope with the world wise rises were squeezed even more, possibly to breaking point, for no reason other than her mad experiment. Even more reason to not vote for the Tories. 

[Fan The Flames]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/16/victoria-albert-museum-margaret-thatcher-exhibition/

The Telegraph snowflakes.

[pingpong]

I was remortgaging during the minibudget (literally). At 10pm that day I pulled the trigger on 3.7٪, 5yr fixed.

I wonder if you comfy fuckers are forgetting, but rates went crazy. In the following days, lenders removed all their products from the market, and came back with deals over 6%. This then gradually came back down, but still above what I was lucky to get.

Without the minibudget, the rises would have been more gradual, giving those affected advance notice and planning time, and staggering the effect.

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, pingpong said:

I was remortgaging during the minibudget (literally). At 10pm that day I pulled the trigger on 3.7٪, 5yr fixed.

I wonder if you comfy fuckers are forgetting, but rates went crazy. In the following days, lenders removed all their products from the market, and came back with deals over 6%. This then gradually came back down, but still above what I was lucky to get.

Without the minibudget, the rises would have been more gradual, giving those affected advance notice and planning time, and staggering the effect.

Let me guess, you were going to vote Tory until that moment?

[hypochondriac]

17 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/16/victoria-albert-museum-margaret-thatcher-exhibition/

The Telegraph snowflakes.

Bit of a silly thing to be concerned about. The way the headline read it was like it was entire exhibition dedicated to Thatcher being Hitler rather than saying she had been used in punch and Judy because she had been unpopular. 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, pingpong said:

I was remortgaging during the minibudget (literally). At 10pm that day I pulled the trigger on 3.7٪, 5yr fixed.

I wonder if you comfy fuckers are forgetting, but rates went crazy. In the following days, lenders removed all their products from the market, and came back with deals over 6%. This then gradually came back down, but still above what I was lucky to get.

Without the minibudget, the rises would have been more gradual, giving those affected advance notice and planning time, and staggering the effect.

No mate the ‘dash for growth’ budget had no effect and would’ve been the same if Labour had been in. I believe what the Daily Mail tells me because I am not very bright

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, pingpong said:

I was remortgaging during the minibudget (literally). At 10pm that day I pulled the trigger on 3.7٪, 5yr fixed.

I wonder if you comfy fuckers are forgetting, but rates went crazy. In the following days, lenders removed all their products from the market, and came back with deals over 6%. This then gradually came back down, but still above what I was lucky to get.

Without the minibudget, the rises would have been more gradual, giving those affected advance notice and planning time, and staggering the effect.

Isn't that what I said earlier, that the financial markets were startled but settled down again after a couple of weeks once the lunatics had been wrestled from control of the asylum?

Let's not over dramatise the point though as no one was "forced" to take a fixed term rate during those weeks and could easily have jumped on to an interest only rate until things settled.