chiknsmack Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 19 minutes ago, The Kraken said: Sorry but you’re talking complete bollocks. It was eminently clear from pre season and early season that Lavia was intended to be the main man. In that PL season he started all of our games in August; so right from the first game he was pitched into a starting first team role. Romeu started just one game in August and was on the bench in three more before his move to Girona was agreed. It was eminently clear before that that he wasn't bought to be the club's only DM. He impressed enough in preseason to get the starting role over Romeu, in the same way that Livramento impressed enough in his first preseason to get the starting role over KWP. But just like Livramento he wasn't bought to be an immediate starter, and just like Livramento he broke down because teenagers can't play every game in the PL and instead should be backup to, or backed up by, established players. It is because of the good start Lavia made that letting Romeu leave was even considered. It was not part of the plan when Lavia signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 1 minute ago, chiknsmack said: It was eminently clear before that that he wasn't bought to be the club's only DM. He impressed enough in preseason to get the starting role over Romeu, in the same way that Livramento impressed enough in his first preseason to get the starting role over KWP. But just like Livramento he wasn't bought to be an immediate starter, and just like Livramento he broke down because teenagers can't play every game in the PL and instead should be backup to, or backed up by, established players. It is because of the good start Lavia made that letting Romeu leave was even considered. It was not part of the plan when Lavia signed. Literally nobody said that Lavia was bought to be the only DM. But he was very clearly identified as our primary starting CM that season, right from the very first pre season games the intention was clear that this lad was deemed something special. Then all through pre season and then the league in August, he was absolutely front and centre. I remember watching the pre season games and commenting on here that I was surprised how Romeu wasn’t getting much action and Lavia seemed to be being favoured. It’s a complete and utter fabrication to suggest, what was it you said? Ah yes, “Lavia was signed to start the season as Romeu's backup/apprentice before taking over around mid-season”. He didn’t start as backup to anybody, right from the very first pre season game he was massively prominent, then he started literally every single league game until Romeu left the club. SFC also signed Maitland-Niles, a terrible signing but quite clearly the intention was he’d be the support act in CM to Lavia’s main role. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 1 hour ago, chiknsmack said: It was eminently clear before that that he wasn't bought to be the club's only DM. He impressed enough in preseason to get the starting role over Romeu, in the same way that Livramento impressed enough in his first preseason to get the starting role over KWP. But just like Livramento he wasn't bought to be an immediate starter, and just like Livramento he broke down because teenagers can't play every game in the PL and instead should be backup to, or backed up by, established players. It is because of the good start Lavia made that letting Romeu leave was even considered. It was not part of the plan when Lavia signed. I would argue that both Lavia and Tino were investments that the club envisaged huge return on in the near future, and that they'd play pretty much from day 1 - and they both did. They were both head and shoulders above everyone else which was pretty much expected by the club I'd have thought. I agree that he wasn't bought as the only DM, sadly we brought in AMN who we thought could do that role - but he's not even a footballer, so that was a poor sight by the club. Lavia and Tino were brought as first team players though, with a view to sell on for mega money within 12 months - which happened pretty much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmes_and_Watson Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 I thought there was a mix of things going on with Romeu's departure. He was very happy at the club and the area. He had become our regular starter by then. Later, and I read it as contract negotiations, there was a hint of a move somewhere else. Livramento's success was the perfect example for SR (even if he was starting to look tired, before his injury) They were also looking to significantly reduce the wage bill. Lavia turned out to be another good fit. Whether the club had told Romeo that his minutes would be more limited. Or if he could see SR's approach and saw he wasn't going to be first choice. The club may have had to give Latvia some assurances to get him here too. When the offer came in, it would have been a tough decision for Romeu. Some of it suited him. Some of it suited the club's goals. The deal needed some additional help to get over the line, even then. It would have been perfect if the club had realised it was a position that already needed strengthening. That young players are not going to be able to consistently perform across a season, not to mention fatigue and injury. There were plenty of minutes there for both of them. It's a shame that the club didn't find a way for that to be communicated to both enough, that they both wanted to stay. Had they both played, then there would perhaps been an issue elsewhere, but could have been resolved. We really needed both. AMN, as others who knew much more than I did about him, commented on what a poor replacement he was for that position at the time. There's a bit of me that thinks the club gets carried away with itself (not just SR). I'd hope it's mainly PR, but suspect they actually believe it. So cutting wages and bringing in young talent may have made them keener than they should have been to move some players on. Throughout all this, and his career, Romeu was a consummate professional. One of my favourites in recent years. A mix of everything we want in a midfielder from breaking up play, technical ability and getting us organised and moving. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent Saint Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 Scores from open play to start WHU revival , now 3-1 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 Just the fiftieth first team appearance for JWP for West Ham. Such a shame he hasn't had any game time at all and has spent the whole season kicking his heels 😪😪😪😪😪 tHe gRaSs iS nOt aLwAyS gReEnER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintTex Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 (edited) 10 hours ago, CB Fry said: Just the fiftieth first team appearance for JWP for West Ham. Such a shame he hasn't had any game time at all and has spent the whole season kicking his heels 😪😪😪😪😪 tHe gRaSs iS nOt aLwAyS gReEnER Interestingly.. JWP 2,916 league minutes the other 4 top players we sold have less league minutes combined : 2,356 ABK 163 Lavia 32 Salisu 855 Livramento 1306 Edited May 12 by SaintTex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 21 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said: I thought there was a mix of things going on with Romeu's departure. He was very happy at the club and the area. He had become our regular starter by then. Later, and I read it as contract negotiations, there was a hint of a move somewhere else. Livramento's success was the perfect example for SR (even if he was starting to look tired, before his injury) They were also looking to significantly reduce the wage bill. Lavia turned out to be another good fit. Whether the club had told Romeo that his minutes would be more limited. Or if he could see SR's approach and saw he wasn't going to be first choice. The club may have had to give Latvia some assurances to get him here too. When the offer came in, it would have been a tough decision for Romeu. Some of it suited him. Some of it suited the club's goals. The deal needed some additional help to get over the line, even then. It would have been perfect if the club had realised it was a position that already needed strengthening. That young players are not going to be able to consistently perform across a season, not to mention fatigue and injury. There were plenty of minutes there for both of them. It's a shame that the club didn't find a way for that to be communicated to both enough, that they both wanted to stay. Had they both played, then there would perhaps been an issue elsewhere, but could have been resolved. We really needed both. AMN, as others who knew much more than I did about him, commented on what a poor replacement he was for that position at the time. There's a bit of me that thinks the club gets carried away with itself (not just SR). I'd hope it's mainly PR, but suspect they actually believe it. So cutting wages and bringing in young talent may have made them keener than they should have been to move some players on. Throughout all this, and his career, Romeu was a consummate professional. One of my favourites in recent years. A mix of everything we want in a midfielder from breaking up play, technical ability and getting us organised and moving. At the time I recall talk that Romeu's departure was also linked somehow to our dealings with Man City, we were doing loads of business with them and Romeu moved to Girona owned by the same people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarehamSaintJames Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) James Ward-Prowse was on The Fozcast (Ben Foster podcast) recently. This episode was released today. Was gutted to leave, pleased to see the club do so well, left to maximise his chances of returning to the England squad. Kind of sums it up. Edited June 13 by FarehamSaintJames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 36 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said: James Ward-Prowse was on The Fozcast (Ben Foster podcast) recently. This episode was released today. Was gutted to leave, pleased to see the club do so well, left to maximise his chances of returning to the England squad. Kind of sums it up. Pretty much confirms everything we already knew, then! Don't reckon we'll see him back, which is a fucking shame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusic Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/24386526.james-ward-prowse-opens-heart-break-southampton-exit/?ref=twtrec Thats the way to leave a club (minus the relegation bit). Hope, and assume he would get a brilliant reception next season. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarehamSaintJames Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 Not sure I’d want him back. Times have changed, the club has moved forward, id be reluctant to have anyone back that has left the club. Why risk upsetting th dressing room for players that didn’t want to be here? Same goes for the loan players - I’d take none of them back. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee On Solent Saint Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 54 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said: Not sure I’d want him back. Times have changed, the club has moved forward, id be reluctant to have anyone back that has left the club. Why risk upsetting th dressing room for players that didn’t want to be here? Same goes for the loan players - I’d take none of them back. To be fair to JWP, he might have wanted to stay. Finances may have dictated the move. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevy777_x Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 56 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said: To be fair to JWP, he might have wanted to stay. Finances may have dictated the move. He didn’t want to stay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 Nailed on JWP to score last minute free kick to win the game for west ham and break beckhams record at st marys this season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 6 hours ago, stevy777_x said: He didn’t want to stay I believe that ...but surely few would have denied him the (last) chance to play Prem. football and David Moyes gave him that opportunity. West Ham's (fans / directors) demands were far above the overall quality of their squad, but Prowsey DAJF them in a poorly-balanced and inconsistent side. In short, they lacked a number of players in key areas who (might) have made the difference. (Saints know that problem). I suspect that (in an ideal world) JWP might have seen himself getting a shoe into the England squad before it's too late (even if not as a starter), but Southgate continually ignored him in favour of the likes of Henderson and Phillips who were little more than a loud voice in the dressing room, and now the general standard of England's corners and free-kicks are appalling and provide few chances - even for the best of strikers. Now it appears Prowsey may become "surplus to requirements" for the new manager who will want to sign some his own favourite targets. It's difficult to see where JWP might go (other than returning to SMS ), but he may get a lifeline if maybe Tottenham could use his talents, but no other London side would be a beneficial move for him as Fulham and Brentford look to be on a downward spiral, and Arsenal have bought Rice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 10 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said: To be fair to JWP, he might have wanted to stay. Finances may have dictated the move. His own finances of course, not the club's. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 12 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said: Not sure I’d want him back. Times have changed, the club has moved forward, id be reluctant to have anyone back that has left the club. Why risk upsetting th dressing room for players that didn’t want to be here? Same goes for the loan players - I’d take none of them back. I'd say its a pretty safe bet to think that JWP wouldn't upset the dressing room... 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toussaint Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said: His own finances of course, not the club's. No the clubs, they could not afford his wages, its well documented he did not have a relegation clause in his contract. Edited June 14 by Toussaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 (edited) Some of the gobshite fans that continue to slag him off are either stupid or incredibly immature imo. The reasons for his move are obvious, and by all accounts it was a very tough choice for him. All in all, he chose to let go of saints (which he very clearly cares deeply about) in a gamble to play for england in a major tournament. He backed himself, but he didn't wager on southgate continuing to shaft him - particularly with his frankly crazy early form at west ham and still getting overlooked for england. Its worth noting as well, that anything he says about saints and his move at the current time has to be tempered by the fact that he is a west ham player and has to not upset their fans either - but you can bet that what he really thinks is he wishes he'd never left to chase a call up from the fraud southgate and had instead led us to promotion. I'd have him back if the right deal could be struck - and it strikes me we could well get one of downes or JWP this summer (stranger things have happened). But i don't think it would necessarily be the swansong some imagine. The reality is that he did leave the dressing room in the championship to go play prem football and chase england, they managed to get up without him, and it will not be the same for him coming back now - things have moved on. Similarly his bond with the fans will be weakened, and he'll obviously attract more flack if we go through periods of poor form etc. now. Its a shame its all played out the way it has. But wish him well regardless, hope he gets a good reception when we play them, and hopefully we do get to see him again in a saints shirt (whilst he's still a good player). Edited June 14 by Saint86 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Wolf Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 The fans slagging him off for leaving are probably the same ones who were ready to bin him off to Watford for £5 Million and calling him every name under the sun when he misplaced a few passes. This "loyalty" and respect for the club that tedious fans go on about only ever works one way. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) F*** it... I know I've been banging on all window about signing a Lambert-esque centre forward but let's just get everyone's favourite son-in-law back into the fold instead, play him higher up the pitch, get him taking the free-kicks again and bag the c.10 goals per season we know he's capable of. Get it done SR, you cheeky rascals! Are you with me @Lord Duckhunter or what...? 😁 Edited August 29 by trousers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dman Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 We dont need him, but hes an improvement on Aribo and Smallbone and on freekicks alone, will get us more goals that the 2 of those combined. If we can agree a loan deal for him, as long as its not at the detriment of us bringing in a number 9, I'd say its a no brainer. If anything, his leadership and experience of 'digging in' during a relegation battle will be worth the loan fee alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polegategavin243 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 34 minutes ago, trousers said: F*** it... I know I've been banging on all window about signing a Lambert-esque centre forward but let's just get everyone's favourite son-in-law back into the fold instead, play him higher up the pitch, get him taking the free-kicks again and bag the c.10 goals per season we know he's capable of. Get it done SR, you cheeky rascals! Are you with me @Lord Duckhunter or what...? 😁 My bother is a West Ham fan and he said this about JWP this afternoon, please please please sign him. I’d rather we kept Soucek than JWP, who is such a poor technical midfielder. We spent a whole season watching his ineffectual passing, always passed either sideways or backwards, never took the ball on the turn ready to drive or pass forward!! Sound familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 2 minutes ago, Polegategavin243 said: We spent a whole season watching his ineffectual passing, always passed either sideways or backwards Isn't that more to do with us tending to play him as a holding midfielder rather than as a 'No.8', the latter of which I think he's far more suited to...? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 12 minutes ago, Polegategavin243 said: My bother is a West Ham fan and he said this about JWP this afternoon, please please please sign him. I’d rather we kept Soucek than JWP, who is such a poor technical midfielder. We spent a whole season watching his ineffectual passing, always passed either sideways or backwards, never took the ball on the turn ready to drive or pass forward!! Sound familiar. We also saw him score nine goals. I would recommend that you look for the positives in our players or you will be constantly be down. I would be absolutely delighted to resign a talisman like Prowsey! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BotleySaint Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Would be amazing and a great signing for us. But surely we'd need to loan/sell Aribo or Smallbone first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 28 minutes ago, Polegategavin243 said: My bother is a West Ham fan and he said this about JWP this afternoon, please please please sign him. I’d rather we kept Soucek than JWP, who is such a poor technical midfielder. We spent a whole season watching his ineffectual passing, always passed either sideways or backwards, never took the ball on the turn ready to drive or pass forward!! Sound familiar. I think we know the positives and negatives of jwp a fair bit more than a West ham fan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Did he get the free kick record yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) I’d have the JWP who played a bit further forward, but keep the other version. The one we saw about 80% of the time. Fucking hell the sideways, backwards, safe football is bad enough as it is, without the GOAT of walking football back in the building. Edited August 29 by Lord Duckhunter 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunglasses Ron Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 2 minutes ago, pingpong said: Did he get the free kick record yet? Nope, only scored a corner last season I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northam soul Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) We have signed Fernandes for that role now so a bit pointless bringing him back to be an 8. Yes Fernandes is still young but looks pretty good to me so far and needs to be given good game time. Edited August 29 by northam soul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenilworthy Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Had he left to join a big team I would say yes. He went to West Ham. So no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 We have enough midfield ball recyclers. No need for another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 23 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said: Had he left to join a big team I would say yes. He went to West Ham. So no thanks. He left to join a team who had European football. He's not coming back but anyone wishing he does but in another thread wanting Dibling to be in the team needs to give their head a wobble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gio1saints Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 13 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: We have enough midfield ball recyclers. No need for another one. Yes he does do that when playing as the 6. So We have two others already able for that ( Flynn and Les) . Question is : You think Will, Joe and Flynn will out-score him from MF this season same games played? I don’t. Add Adam Lallana and big Les to that list. Mateus is an unknown as is Tyler and I think those two will both score - but over 7/8 goals ? - love that to be true. JWP is nailed on for 6/7/8 goals at this level imo - let alone assists and more if he refinds his free kick mojo. Not even including pens. Don't want to lose Joe or Will but I’m a Saints fan wants goals from this team and he’s got some goals in his boots for sure. Plus who doesn’t want to see him break the free kick record with a Saints shirt on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee On Solent Saint Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 10 minutes ago, gio1saints said: Don't want to lose Joe or Will Can I ask why? Aribo is a nothing player. Smallbone is physical weak at this level. Cannot tackle. I would get rid of those two in an instant if it allowed us to bring back JWP. I know you agree with me that it would a massive improvement to have him back, was just interested in what you see in Aribo and Smallbone at this level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErwinK1961 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 The manager has said we’re not interested, we’ve recruited 2 (plus Flynn permanently) in the midfield and have TD breaking through, we have urgent need in the attacking position and have saved a loan spot clearly for that purpose. It’s not going to happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Maybe in a couple of years when he's cheaper and we need another midfielder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarehamSaintJames Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 I’d take him if another midfielder was leaving. On the face of it it would appear that’s not the case, in which case we don’t need him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 44 minutes ago, gio1saints said: Yes he does do that when playing as the 6. So We have two others already able for that ( Flynn and Les) . Question is : You think Will, Joe and Flynn will out-score him from MF this season same games played? I don’t. Add Adam Lallana and big Les to that list. Mateus is an unknown as is Tyler and I think those two will both score - but over 7/8 goals ? - love that to be true. JWP is nailed on for 6/7/8 goals at this level imo - let alone assists and more if he refinds his free kick mojo. Not even including pens. Don't want to lose Joe or Will but I’m a Saints fan wants goals from this team and he’s got some goals in his boots for sure. Plus who doesn’t want to see him break the free kick record with a Saints shirt on? The question is, will his handful of goals make up for all the lost opportunities when the ball is recycled over and over with zero threat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gio1saints Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said: Can I ask why? Aribo is a nothing player. Smallbone is physical weak at this level. Cannot tackle. I would get rid of those two in an instant if it allowed us to bring back JWP. I know you agree with me that it would a massive improvement to have him back, was just interested in what you see in Aribo and Smallbone at this level. Because I’m sentimentally loyal to the players that got us up and just feel it would be tough to ditch Will in particular, before he’s had a fair chance at the EPL - which he has earned imo. You are on the side of making ruthless decisions and it’s probably the more winning way overall. But it’s not all that loving and does not feel Saintsy to me. Respect that pov of course. I think JWP starts in our best 11 and certainly is in our best 16. Do I think it’s a good idea? Probably on balance not. He can rejoin next year if we are relegated. Glad I’m not RM. Or am I ?😎 Edited August 29 by gio1saints 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakovnetski Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 35 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: The question is, will his handful of goals make up for all the lost opportunities when the ball is recycled over and over with zero threat? Surely it can't get any worse than it already is with NO goals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gio1saints Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 32 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: The question is, will his handful of goals make up for all the lost opportunities when the ball is recycled over and over with zero threat? If they ALL do that recycling with zero threat we will go down whoever is playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 If we were interested in a 10 goal a season PL midfielder who wasn't called 'James Ward-Prowse' I suspect there would be quite a few more "yes please"s on here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 40 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said: The question is, will his handful of goals make up for all the lost opportunities when the ball is recycled over and over with zero threat? Two handfuls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee On Solent Saint Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 56 minutes ago, gio1saints said: Because I’m sentimentally loyal to the players that got us up and just feel it would be tough to ditch Will in particular, before he’s had a fair chance at the EPL - which he has earned imo. You are on the side of making ruthless decisions and it’s probably the more winning way overall. But it’s not all that loving and does not feel Saintsy to me. Respect that pov of course. I think JWP starts in our best 11 and certainly is in our best 16. Do I think it’s a good idea? Probably on balance not. He can rejoin next year if we are relegated. Glad I’m not RM. Or am I ?😎 Fully understand your opinion. I get the impression that RM is loyal to the group, whether that loyalty is folly, time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 1 hour ago, gio1saints said: If they ALL do that recycling with zero threat we will go down whoever is playing. So just save the money then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patches O Houlihan Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Presumably if Cornet is on loan from West Ham any move for JWP would need to be a purchase. WH want £25m we sold him for £30. Seems a lot. Would they take £18m? Are we even interested in buying him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Just saw jwp has been linked to forest. I'd be pretty gutted if he goes there to be honest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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