James Ward-Prowse

[HnycS]

12 hours ago, Yorkshire Saint said:

Not James Bree with any luck.

Manning ? 

Alcaraz from the left Manning from the right. Lyanco, if from anywhere else on earth that doesn't include St Mary's stadium. (Liiving in hope).

[Weston Super Saint]

15 minutes ago, HnycS said:

Alcaraz from the left Manning from the right. Lyanco, if from anywhere else on earth that doesn't include St Mary's stadium. (Liiving in hope).

Odd.  You want Lyanco to take all free kicks when we play away from home?

[Saint Fan CaM]

4 hours ago, Chez said:

What has being a non starter at a prem side got to do with the amount of effort he puts in for Saints? I'm not sure his effort was ever questioned at West ham.

He hasn't quite been good enough to conquer the Prem. But we are in the championship.

Who are you expecting us to sign? If they are good enough for the Prem...they will be in the Prem.

 

It’s not the Prem as such, just that I’m not that keen on loans…I’m not convinced they invest completely in the club, the philosophy, the style of play or indeed the supporters. Downes may be a great character and it might be a loan to buy deal, which of course would be better.

[Smirking_Saint]

With respect… we knew Lavia was going, we knew Salisu was going, we knew Tino or KWP were going and we knew JWP was going

I am now genuinely dissapointed that we’ve not sorted our incomings quick enough

But this isn’t any information that wasn’t previously around 

Its not rocket science to ‘guess’ that we’ll lose a number over the next weeks or so.. Id not expect ABK, Onuachu, Perraud and maybe not even kamaldeen to be here either

[Miltonaggro]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Would be pretty funny if he picks up an injury on Saturday. 

Nothing serious, just something that keeps him out for a few months.

At West Ham it would likely be Thrush or Chlamydia.

[Smirking_Saint]

The thing Im really concerned/confused at is our softening of our resolve around JWP

Was it enforced on the players end ?

Did we see more value in the sale rather than retaining him ?

Are we getting a player in return ?

Who knows 🤷‍♀️

[ant]

1 minute ago, Smirking_Saint said:

The thing Im really concerned/confused at is our softening of our resolve around JWP

Was it enforced on the players end ?

Did we see more value in the sale rather than retaining him ?

Are we getting a player in return ?

Who knows 🤷‍♀️

Could it also be that rather than paying in instalments they've offered to pay more (or all of it) upfront?

[Harry_SFC]

2 minutes ago, ant said:

Could it also be that rather than paying in instalments they've offered to pay more (or all of it) upfront?

I have seen this mentioned. We compromised on the fee to get more of the money upfront. 

[Miltonaggro]

7 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

The thing Im really concerned/confused at is our softening of our resolve around JWP

Was it enforced on the players end ?

Did we see more value in the sale rather than retaining him ?

Are we getting a player in return ?

Who knows 🤷‍♀️

I think we have blinked as clearly need to get on with our own business now. Likely cash up front and Downes on loan as part of the deal. Doesn’t look great but those may be the drivers. 

[tdmickey3]

2 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

I have seen this mentioned. We compromised on the fee to get more of the money upfront. 

Otherwise known as caving in.

Seems like its been all talk from club to appease fan base, they said they didnt need to sell as we have the finances........ bullshit obviously 

How long before Wilcox thinks, fuck this and moves on?

[Smirking_Saint]

4 minutes ago, ant said:

Could it also be that rather than paying in instalments they've offered to pay more (or all of it) upfront?

Im genuinely not sure but it seems like, for some reason, we’ve gone from 40m to 30m which is a significant drop

Id be dissapointed again if it’s literally just to enable a loan deal for Downes IF it doesn’t include a form of buy option but we’ll wait to see, thats the rumour anyway and it ties in with what we know about our interest 

In reference to the post about the loan system, generally I do agree, thats loans aren’t that great due to players not buying in etc but it is a good method to get out of the Championship, plenty have employed it before (forest for example). It does mean you then have to try to rebalance a squad IF you are promoted or even if you aren’t, but in the former case you almost have to anyway so Im not completely against bringing in a few good loans

[Smirking_Saint]

Just now, tdmickey3 said:

Otherwise known as caving in.

Seems like its been all talk from club to appease fan base, they said they didnt need to sell as we have the finances........ bullshit obviously 

How long before Wilcox thinks, fuck this and moves on?

 

1 minute ago, Miltonaggro said:

I think we have blinked as clearly need to get on with our own business now. Likely cash up front and Downes on loan as part of the deal. Doesn’t look great but those may be the drivers. 

Im not entirely sure it is, for instance we stood strong with Tino and looks like we are with Lavia too, so not sure what changed with JWP.. I genuinely don’t know btw I just hope it was player pressure but I guess we’ll find out this week.. it’ll probably be done today tbh

[a1ex2001]

10 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Im genuinely not sure but it seems like, for some reason, we’ve gone from 40m to 30m which is a significant drop

Id be dissapointed again if it’s literally just to enable a loan deal for Downes IF it doesn’t include a form of buy option but we’ll wait to see, thats the rumour anyway and it ties in with what we know about our interest 

In reference to the post about the loan system, generally I do agree, thats loans aren’t that great due to players not buying in etc but it is a good method to get out of the Championship, plenty have employed it before (forest for example). It does mean you then have to try to rebalance a squad IF you are promoted or even if you aren’t, but in the former case you almost have to anyway so Im not completely against bringing in a few good loans

40 was never what we were going to get that was just the headline number I was realistically hoping for mid 30’s but if we have got most of the 30m upfront then it probably balances out.  Of course we need to sell any club that gets relegated does and most publicly say they don’t. Finances have to be balanced and players who don’t want to stick around will always be moved on surely everyone knew this was coming and wasn’t expecting the board to announce a full list of players we wanted to get shot of and who wanted to leave and stay etc

[Charlie Wayman]

11 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Wait until he realises Channon left and MLT was desperate to sign for Spurs and only stayed because his wife didn't want to leave the area.

Hey! My ire goes much further back than that, I'm still cursing Martin Bl**dy Chivers, treacherous B!

[CB Fry]

25 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

I have seen this mentioned. We compromised on the fee to get more of the money upfront. 

Exactly - getting £27m up front is phenomenal. Anyone thinking it is "caving in" is deluded. Most of the headline figures of so-and-so signs for whoever for £50m will be a package where the money is spread out. I would be interested to see if Leicester got £27m up front for Maddison.

[spyinthesky]

5 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Hey! My ire goes much further back than that, I'm still cursing Martin Bl**dy Chivers, treacherous B!

And we got Frank Saul as part of the deal.
That went well!!

[Harry_SFC]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

Exactly - getting £27m up front is phenomenal. Anyone thinking it is "caving in" is deluded. Most of the headline figures of so-and-so signs for whoever for £50m will be a package where the money is spread out. I would be interested to see if Leicester got £27m up front for Maddison.

Not only that but Lavia and Tino are genuinely worth their price tags to other teams. They are good enough already and have the potential to become world class. We were never getting £40m for JWP and surely everyone knew that. He just wasn't in demand, won't improve and isn't good enough for the big teams. 

[Miltonaggro]

48 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Otherwise known as caving in.

Seems like its been all talk from club to appease fan base, they said they didnt need to sell as we have the finances........ bullshit obviously 

How long before Wilcox thinks, fuck this and moves on?

Could be that unfortunately, or a midweek meeting between Wilcox, Martin and Mowbray in terms of best (only) offer on the table and a need to reach a conclusion on a 29 year old player. Could also come from pressure from JWPs side of course. Only those very close will know. 

At the end of last season when Sport Republic issued the appeasement about ‘taking responsibility’ and being ‘committed to Southampton’ I pointed out that should they get us promoted it only restores us to where we were when they took over, no fanfare or thanks required from the fanbase at that point. Restoration not ressurection. Outwardly they have proved nothing so far apart from their ineptitude and stubbornness. The hope is that this has been addressed with Wilcox but the proof in the pudding has still to materialise.

It was always going to be painful losing our few stars, but its more about incomings, this window is crucial and so is January if SR are committed and the club are serious. There is no need to attempt be clever, the model is already there, and was used successfully at this club last time we hit rock bottom. You buy a core of players from clubs around you and above you and blend this with your best proven youngsters. You don’t gamble or game in this league.
 

 I would expect six starters arriving in this window and so far - front to back - we have one, so lots to do. Last season we were putting out a team with no spine, bereft of character or care. The Sheff Wed win was welcome but Gillingham bloody horrific, so in two games something like five shots on target and four goals against. I like Martin and I like Wilcox but they need to be ruthless and demanding from this point.

[derry]

Ted sold Charlie Livesey to Chelsea, in return he got captain Cliff Huxford. From what was left he bought George O'Brien ( a wonderful goalscorer and  a Leeds reserve), the skilful Dick Connor from Grimsby and turned an ordinary side into champions. Reeves into a 45 goal centre forward ably assisted by Terry Paine and the lightning fast John Sydenham. And the best match of my youth, an FA Cup visit to Maine Road to massacre First Division Manchester City 1-5 with Paine turning left back Cliff Sears inside out and Reeves scoring four against the great Bert Trautman in goal. The moral of this story, let's do it again. This is really where the journey began, six years later we were a first division side.

Edited 10 August, 2023 by derry

[Lighthouse]

21 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Exactly - getting £27m up front is phenomenal. Anyone thinking it is "caving in" is deluded. Most of the headline figures of so-and-so signs for whoever for £50m will be a package where the money is spread out. I would be interested to see if Leicester got £27m up front for Maddison.

I wouldn't say 'phenomenal' as such but I'd agree it's probably the most plausible line of thinking, given West Ham's recent cash boost from Rice and the relatively short window we'll have to bring players in once outgoings are finalised. Hopefully we can use that same lure of up front cash to tempt other clubs, who may have financial issues, to sell their best players.

[SotonianWill]

7 minutes ago, derry said:

Ted sold Charlie Livesey to Chelsea, in return he got captain Cliff Huxford. From what was left he bought George O'Brien ( a wonderful goalscorer and  a Leeds reserve), the skilful Dick Connor from Grimsby and turned an ordinary side into champions. Reeves into a 45 goal centre forward ably assisted by Terry Paine and the lightning fast John Sydenham. And the best match of my youth, an FA Cup visit to Maine Road to massacre First Division Manchester City 1-5 with Paine turning left back Cliff Sears inside out and Reeves scoring four against the great Bert Trautman in goal. The moral of this story, let's do it again. This is really where the journey began, six years later we were a first division side.

What sort of players were the replacements at the time. Were the likes of O’brien nobodies or lost their way or already first division quality players etc? 

[gordonToo]

Tuesday's (non) performance clearly concentrated minds.

[Badger]

15 minutes ago, derry said:

Ted sold Charlie Livesey to Chelsea, in return he got captain Cliff Huxford. From what was left he bought George O'Brien ( a wonderful goalscorer and  a Leeds reserve), the skilful Dick Connor from Grimsby and turned an ordinary side into champions. Reeves into a 45 goal centre forward ably assisted by Terry Paine and the lightning fast John Sydenham. And the best match of my youth, an FA Cup visit to Maine Road to massacre First Division Manchester City 1-5 with Paine turning left back Cliff Sears inside out and Reeves scoring four against the great Bert Trautman in goal. The moral of this story, let's do it again. This is really where the journey began, six years later we were a first division side.

When Channon left, Laurie brought in Phil Boyer to reunite him with Ted MacDougall. And I think bought Chris Nicholl the same summer, and still had a bit left over. Promotion at the end of the season.

It can be done.

(Lets not mention Shearer- Dixon/Speedie )

[derry]

38 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

What sort of players were the replacements at the time. Were the likes of O’brien nobodies or lost their way or already first division quality players etc? 

Cliff Huxford was captain of Chelsea's reserve team, what a captain he turned out to be. His voice boomed out the whole match, the original hard man and tough as nails. George was volatile, a skilful reserve player at Leeds but a clinical finisher. He carried a knee injury for years but you wouldn't have known. A great player for us. The only time in league football I saw a player throw a punch properly. Harry Harris of Newport hacked George who threw a right upper cut and poleaxed Harris, who was stretchered off.

Dick Connor was an incisive passer especially forward and blended in, however he only lasted the one season until promotion but it was enough. I think the first game back in the second sivision we hammered Liverpool 4-0 at the Dell. The Saint's forwards were the key. Paine, O'Brien what a pair on the right, Reeves in the middle, either tommy Mulgrew or the brilliant in the air Brian Cifton and the quickest player in the country in my opinion, John Sydenham on the left. Over a hundred goals a season in the league more than once.

I hope these memories give you the picture. In those days managers assessed players after tips from scouts and believed their own eyes. We bought crap in later years because we didn't do that.

Edited 10 August, 2023 by derry

[beatlesaint]

23 minutes ago, gordonToo said:

Tuesday's (non) performance clearly concentrated minds.

You know its funny but i did wonder that, whether they've thought "we cant bugger around waiting much longer"

[sydney_saint]

I don't think the fee is as tragic as people think. No player his age or older has been transferred for more than JWP this summer in the EPL. He's presumably about equal with Maguire, but if we've got more upfront money then we slightly shade it. The prem is obsessed with youth at the moment

[sydney_saint]

11 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

Mate he can literally fuck off. 
 

Why would any saints fan want to clap and applaud a West Ham player? He’s made his bed, he can lie on it. 
 

He is the one that chose to walk away and leave us in the shit. I hope the rest of his career is a spectacular failure, the same I do when any player leaves us. Because all I care about is saints. 
 

....everything okay mate?

[Dellman]

1 hour ago, derry said:

Cliff Huxford was captain of Chelsea's reserve team, what a captain he turned out to be. His voice boomed out the whole match, the original hard man and tough as nails. George was volatile, a skilful reserve player at Leeds but a clinical finisher. He carried a knee injury for years but you wouldn't have known. A great player for us. The only time in league football I saw a player throw a punch properly. Harry Harris of Newport hacked George who threw a right upper cut and poleaxed Harris, who was stretchered off.

Dick Connor was an incisive passer especially forward and blended in, however he only lasted the one season until promotion but it was enough. I think the first game back in the second sivision we hammered Liverpool 4-0 at the Dell. The Saint's forwards were the key. Paine, O'Brien what a pair on the right, Reeves in the middle, either tommy Mulgrew or the brilliant in the air Brian Cifton and the quickest player in the country in my opinion, John Sydenham on the left. Over a hundred goals a season in the league more than once.

I hope these memories give you the picture. In those days managers assessed players after tips from scouts and believed their own eyes. We bought crap in later years because we didn't do that.

Ted was unique, his knowledge of players unequalled. I don't remember failed signings, there must have been some, but he made amazingly good ones -Ron Davies--at a time when we were nearly penniless. Players loved to play for him

[spyinthesky]

16 minutes ago, Dellman said:

Ted was unique, his knowledge of players unequalled. I don't remember failed signings, there must have been some, but he made amazingly good ones -Ron Davies--at a time when we were nearly penniless. Players loved to play for him

Of course in those days a Manager went to watch players who were recommended by his (part time) scouts.
He made a point of watching them play at home and away to get a better idea of their capabilities.
All that said I can remember the times when there was a dissatisfaction at The Dell about the team's performances and going back to the early 1950's rumours abounded that the Saints Directors not wanting promotion to the First Division after the team narrowly missed promotion from the Second Division, on one occasion being well ahead of the pack at Easter then suffering a poor run of form to the last game.
God knows what the meltdown would have been if Social Media had been around then!!
btw Big Ron Davies wasnt Ted's first choice. He originally wanted Bobby Tambling from Chelsea but the club couldnt meet the transfer fee required by Chelsea.
Thank goodness for that as Ron was a great player for Saints.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, gordonToo said:

Tuesday's (non) performance clearly concentrated minds.

Fuck me, I’d have hoped they knew we had a pile of shite before Tuesday. Surely the manager & Wilcox will have watched videos of last season, seen scouting reports & watched these clowns in training. If they came away from Tuesday surprised how god damn awful most of them are, then I would be worried. 

[Sussex_saint]

Once I got over the original disappointment of Prowsey leaving, you have to think of it from his point of view. He has played here since an 8 year old. He has dedicated his entire life to serving this club. Through the highs and lows of the last few years, he has been a reliable and consistent player. Not a flashy one (apart from set prices) but does the job exceptionally well. He deserves to try and break the free kick record. He deserves the glory of playing in Europe again. He deserves the chance of representing his country. I want him to play for England again, and I want him to break the record, and I would love it to be with us, but regardless of his club he will always be saint. 

[hypochondriac]

4 hours ago, Smirking_Saint said:

The thing Im really concerned/confused at is our softening of our resolve around JWP

Was it enforced on the players end ?

Did we see more value in the sale rather than retaining him ?

Are we getting a player in return ?

Who knows 🤷‍♀️

Absolutely. You'd think that would be one player we would be driving a harder bargain for over someone like Tino or Tella due to what he represents. Maybe we did have an agreement about him leaving following relegation. 

[Fan The Flames]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Absolutely. You'd think that would be one player we would be driving a harder bargain for over someone like Tino or Tella due to what he represents. Maybe we did have an agreement about him leaving following relegation. 

Tino is good money for a player that hasn't been part of the set up for a while. I would expect them to play hard ball with Tella, we don't need to sell him and he proved himself last season and I wouldn't expect to see him sulk if he doesn't get his move. But with JWP, the club were right to respect what he has given the club, how hard he's worked to make himself a prem player and his desire to remain a prem player at his age, and let him move on.

[Daft Kerplunk]

With any reported deals, that’s all it is. Reported. Apparently when we purchased Charlie Austin, we paid more than was reported because it suited us, and QPR. JWP has been a very good player for us, not to the level of others and given a bigger media role as he was the last player from a decent crop of academy players. Shame he has to go but that was inevitable once we were relegated. If the fee is £29m that’s decent for a player who is very good but not a player who is a game changer unless it’s for a free kick. 

[Miltonaggro]

16 hours ago, The Kraken said:

The madder one has got hold of the Charlie Wayman account again. Buckle in. 

Johnny Walker or Captain Morgan? 

[FarehamSaintJames]

6 hours ago, Smirking_Saint said:

The thing Im really concerned/confused at is our softening of our resolve around JWP

Was it enforced on the players end ?

Did we see more value in the sale rather than retaining him ?

Are we getting a player in return ?

Who knows 🤷‍♀️

I’m sure JWP will always give the answer of his love and admiration for the club but the “project at West Ham was sold to him”.

It’s the most standard answer players give nowadays.

He’s hardly going to have an interview:
”Prowsy, why are you going?”
”Have you not seen the shitshow the club has been in for the last year? Bollocks to the lot of ya”

[The Cat]

3 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

I’m sure JWP will always give the answer of his love and admiration for the club but the “project at West Ham was sold to him”.

It’s the most standard answer players give nowadays.

He’s hardly going to have an interview:
”Prowsy, why are you going?”
”Have you not seen the shitshow the club has been in for the last year? Bollocks to the lot of ya”

Surely he won't need to do that interview because you've been relentlessly banging on for the last few months about how he's staying?

[FarehamSaintJames]

2 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Surely he won't need to do that interview because you've been relentlessly banging on for the last few months about how he's staying?

Bore off. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I genuinely didn’t think he would. I was incorrect. 
Move on. 👍🏻

[qwertyell]

He had to go now or risk being stuck in the Championship for the rest of his career.

If he were to stay and we fail to get promoted at the first attempt (which is probably more likely than not), no-one's coming along next summer with a big cheque to sign a 30 year old from a mid table Championship club.

Good luck to him. I wasn't his biggest fan and think he's wildly overrated around these parts simply because he's a home grown player that has stuck around while his peers all left (because no-one wanted him), but in our current state we'll obviously miss him.

 

[Fan The Flames]

2 minutes ago, qwertyell said:

He had to go now or risk being stuck in the Championship for the rest of his career.

If he were to stay and we fail to get promoted at the first attempt (which is probably more likely than not), no-one's coming along next summer with a big cheque to sign a 30 year old from a mid table Championship club.

Good luck to him. I wasn't his biggest fan and think he's wildly overrated around these parts simply because he's a home grown player that has stuck around while his peers all left (because no-one wanted him), but in our current state we'll obviously miss him.

 

What he's shit but we're shittier.

I think he's better than that.

[Shance]

On 12/07/2023 at 13:47, manji said:

We don’t need to sell to spend at all. All debts cleared. Plenty of money in the bank. Clearly we need to offload some players but that’s not driving the purchases.

We are debt free? Where have you read that? As I thought we had a bit of debt. 

[Chewy]

22 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Bore off. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I genuinely didn’t think he would. I was incorrect. 
Move on. 👍🏻

As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

Almost every day, often multiple times a day. For about 4 months. 
And not once did you “bore off”.

[OldNick]

3 hours ago, Dellman said:

Ted was unique, his knowledge of players unequalled. I don't remember failed signings, there must have been some, but he made amazingly good ones -Ron Davies--at a time when we were nearly penniless. Players loved to play for him

Frank Saul?

[Disco Stu]

2 hours ago, Sussex_saint said:

regardless of his club he will always be saint. 

Once he's left he won't be a Saint, he'll be a Hammer, and in years to come he'll be referred to as the "ex Hammer".

[OldNick]

the myth that a player who has come up from the youth system is a die hard Saint is a nonsense. JWP has it seems pushed for a move, as all of a sudden we have dropped our demands. That's fine as JWP whilst a brilliant free kick taker has IMO broken up more of our attacks than the opposition defence as he too often passes the ball in a negative manner. If he does well at WHU where the fans dont have the 'he's one of our own' tag then I will be happy to say I was wrong. 

Replace him with a progressive forward thinking midfielder who breaks into the box often not now and again and we've had a great deal.

Thank you JWP but time is right for all parties

[Mosin]

37 minutes ago, OldNick said:

the myth that a player who has come up from the youth system is a die hard Saint is a nonsense. JWP has it seems pushed for a move, as all of a sudden we have dropped our demands. That's fine as JWP whilst a brilliant free kick taker has IMO broken up more of our attacks than the opposition defence as he too often passes the ball in a negative manner. If he does well at WHU where the fans dont have the 'he's one of our own' tag then I will be happy to say I was wrong. 

Replace him with a progressive forward thinking midfielder who breaks into the box often not now and again and we've had a great deal.

Thank you JWP but time is right for all parties

I'll be more than shocked if we ever get a forward thinking player who will end up top 8 for chances created in the epl for us when we eventually go back with consistency so high he manages to do that feat season, after season, after season. What he do? 74 last season 64 season before, 70 odd season before tht, another 70 odd season before that... scoring 10 goals a season....

 

 

Yeah I wont get my Hope's up to much on that.

[AlexLaw76]

should imagine his PR team have prepared a range of 'Goodbye pieces' for Instagram etc, ready for tomorrow

[gordonToo]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fuck me, I’d have hoped they knew we had a pile of shite before Tuesday. Surely the manager & Wilcox will have watched videos of last season, seen scouting reports & watched these clowns in training. If they came away from Tuesday surprised how god damn awful most of them are, then I would be worried. 

Not necessarily as they must have some talent to have been signed in the first place. Some do not suit RM's system, some are only want to play their own game and some think the Championship is too good for them. After Tuesday everyone should now know where they stand.

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

should imagine his PR team have prepared a range of 'Goodbye pieces' for Instagram etc, ready for tomorrow

I don't want to see any of it. He's gone. His choice. See you later. We March on. 

[the colonel]

1 hour ago, qwertyell said:

He had to go now or risk being stuck in the Championship for the rest of his career.

If he were to stay and we fail to get promoted at the first attempt (which is probably more likely than not), no-one's coming along next summer with a big cheque to sign a 30 year old from a mid table Championship club.

Good luck to him. I wasn't his biggest fan and think he's wildly overrated around these parts simply because he's a home grown player that has stuck around while his peers all left (because no-one wanted him), but in our current state we'll obviously miss him.

 

Agree with your comments and sentiment but a shame it is West Ham. Very much a side ways move.  I can't see WH doing that well, again, in the premier league. But obviously the big clubs weren't interested.