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Arsenal 3-3 Saints - Match Thread

Pilchards

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Appy

Appy

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, spyinthesky said:

I am amazed that we have sold our allocation for a Friday night game with the team playing shit.

Has the club taken the full allocation for Newcastle and Nottm Forest?

Forest they have, not Newcastle 

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JRM

JRM

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Posted
1 hour ago, Dellman said:

I dont believe the problem is lack of effort from the players. They've lost confidence (so have i) and they are clearly depressed (who isn't?) but a goal--even one--could begin to change all that. We just don't get a goal to raise the spirit of the crowd or the players. The problem isn't lack of effort it is lack of direction, they all run around like headless chickens but it is wasted effort. And that is down to the management more than the players.

Do you genuinely believe the players were giving 100% effort to win that game on Saturday? It didn't look like it to me to be honest. Appreciate there is a lack of talent and belief as well but teams that lack those in the past have still shown more fight than our sorry bunch of wasters. 

I was baffled by a few people clapping the team off at the end but I guess some thought the players effort level was worthy of applause, interested to hear your perspective on that might help me see things differently. 

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JRM

JRM

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, spyinthesky said:

I am amazed that we have sold our allocation for a Friday night game with the team playing shit.

Has the club taken the full allocation for Newcastle and Nottm Forest?

Forest - full allocation 2955, still plenty left unsurprisingly,  would be amazed if we take all of that up on a Monday night 

Newcastle - 3 blocks, about 1700, about 250 left, not sure how many Geordies have bought in our end since they went on general sale but looks like great numbers for Sunday lunchtime game when we've already taken loads up there midweek in the carabao this season 

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eurosaint

eurosaint

Posted
Posted

What a lot of you guys don't seem to realise is that the game is all about : Process, personality, principles, systemic movement, competing for space etc..etc..

All this nonsense about moving forward, being direct, using wingers, shooting on sight etc.. etc.. will get us nowhere !

We didn't get where we are today without being 'stats obsessed' so get a grip you lot, you know it makes sense !

Grrrr....

😢😢 

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SW11_Saint

SW11_Saint

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, eurosaint said:

What a lot of you guys don't seem to realise is that the game is all about : Process, personality, principles, systemic movement, competing for space etc..etc..

All this nonsense about moving forward, being direct, using wingers, shooting on sight etc.. etc.. will get us nowhere !

We didn't get where we are today without being 'stats obsessed' so get a grip you lot, you know it makes sense !

Grrrr....

😢😢 

Yes, also remember “playing a striker doesn’t make any difference”. Wonder if Kane, Haaland and Salah have been told this too? 

6-0. 

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
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12 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

I wish we could actually get into a 2 goal lead in the first place.

When was the last time we were 2 goals up? Other than in the cup games, must be last season. Another pathetic stat.

We had that little spell last season when we beat Everton 2-0, Norwich 2-0, Brentford 4-1 etc. But since then the only game we've had a 2 goal advantage in was against Cambridge. 

I wouldn't even class that as an advantage though, as we'd probably piss our pants and still lose 2-3.

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beatlesaint

beatlesaint

Posted
Posted

I dread to think what starting eleven Selles will put out. I bet Moi is back in !

Play Tall Paul and get the ball into him as much as possible with someone (Charly) running onto any knockdowns.

I have wondered, whenever Selles has bought Tall Paul on for the odd 20 mins why our pinpoint dead ball specialist JWP is totally unable to find a 6ft 7in guy loitering in the penalty box ?  

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I have wondered, whenever Selles has bought Tall Paul on for the odd 20 mins why our pinpoint dead ball specialist JWP is totally unable to find a 6ft 7in guy loitering in the penalty box ?  

like he did at West Ham do you mean?

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, beatlesaint said:

Once, my sincere apologies 

Did the same at Brentford away. Picked Onuachu out, keeper challenged him and palmed the ball straight to Walcott who should have scored from the rebound. First half of the Chelsea game, JWP crossed to Onuachu and his header from about 6 yards went just past the post. Possibly should have done better, although Chilwell fouled him. So that's three occasions when JWP has delivered good balls to Onuachu off the top of my head. 

To be fair to JWP, it's not really a central midfielders job to get crosses into the box from open play. We have wingers and fullbacks that ought be doing that. Sadly none of them can cross a ball, maybe Bree apart. Perhaps he should find him more from set pieces, but if you take Saturday as an example, after Onuachu came on, we didn't really have many set pieces in the last twenty minutes, as we struggled to get up the pitch to earn any free kicks or corners.

I've commented on this on another thread, that when Onuachu comes on near the end of a game, the team needs to adjust and play a bit longer and little measured. Get the ball up to him and play off him. I certainly don't want to see our side play long ball football, and I wouldn't pick Onuachu partly for that reason, but if he does come on, it generally means we are behind and the short passing game has not worked. Sadly, on Saturday we just continued to try and work the chance. That is admiral, to a degree, and we did manufacture two chances for Alcaraz, but if we are going to do that (pass it short), then there is little point in bringing Onuachu on at all.  

Edited by Chez
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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

We’re going to win; the season we go down with our record low points total will also be the season we win at Arsenal and Everton.

in such a horrible season, it would be nice to stuff Arsenal and ruin their title hopes. Won't happen though.

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derry

derry

Posted
Posted

I am sick and tired of watching the turgid rubbish we are serving up. Two centrebacks and JWP passing it aimlessly around until Bazunu is left with no options but to hit it into a midfield stifled by a consolidated defence.

What's worse and the major cause of our demise are smartarse overqualified coaches masquerading as managers. For decades it's been obvious that playing players in positions they aren't comfortable in destroys the balance. Buying a big centre forward then playing two wide men cutting in means no crosses, it's elementary and the height of stupidity. No wonder we can't score goals and feeding on scraps.

Every team has a natural shape, change it and it will be the clusterfuck we experience week in week out. We have a team with a natural shape that could beat the pants off the teams our sophisticated theorists mess about with. Keep it simple stupid is the plan. KWP at right back Bednarek and ABK Perrault at left back. JWP and Lavia, Sulemana on the right, Djenepo on the left with Onuachu and Alcarez (Mara) right up as far as they can go in amongst the centre backs. No passing out short, no passing back unless no other choice. get the ball out to the wide men quickly. One full back only attacks at a time the other joins the Centre backs. One midfielder holds the other gets up in support. The wide player away from the ball gets to the back post. Just elementary high tempo football.

Last week we left out the nothing player, replaced by another nothing player, wide men on the wrong side, a right back on the left and a journeyman on the right and no striker. We got what we deserved, nothing. We don't pick Onuachu, so why do we bring him on two goals down to try and save the game? Sheer stupidity. JWP needs to get his head out of his arse and play forward. 

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saintant

saintant

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Posted

Agree entirely. The slow shuffling of the ball at the back in an effort to show that we are a cultured football side is a joke. If you are going to play that way you must have full backs and centre backs who are switched on, ready to move into space and receive the ball, control it with one touch and move it on quickly. As well as that, the midfield must come short to receive the ball. We do none of this so it only plays into our opponents hands. Either learn to play the system properly (Man City are the masters but we don't need to be their level) or go down a different route because our plodders just look embarrassing.

Let's get some wide players hugging the touch line and get some service to Tall Paul as well as stretching the opposition. One holding midfielder should be enough and probably Lavia is the best fit which leaves JWP without a role unless we play him further up the pitch. At the moment he is offering nothing because his lack of pace means he resorts to negative passes back and sideways - he's currently a problem rather than a solution.  Start the game fast because we are always better when we do that instead of pointless possession just to keep things tight - take some risks for a change.

Not sure what we do about the goalkeeper but those in charge should have realised very early in the season that Bazunu is not even close to being ready to play at this level - not convinced he ever will be.

It's a mess and we know a reset is coming during the summer - the question is, have the clowns running the club got the nous to  make the right calls or maybe Jason Wilcocks can work a miracle. We've fallen a long way and those in charge need to hold their hands up and take responsibility.  

 

 

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bpsaint

bpsaint

Posted
Posted

Fortunate enough to be sat in the corporates for this alongside another saints fan, an Arsenal fan, and a skate. I have zero expectations other than large amounts of free beer, and at least a 4-0 home win.

I’d resigned myself to relegation already, but the going down without a fight is what I find most unforgivable.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, derry said:

We don't pick Onuachu, so why do we bring him on two goals down to try and save the game? Sheer stupidity. 

Is it? Selles doesn't rate Onuachu - and I don't blame him. That's why he picks others and has him on the bench. If you are two nil down, it's desperate times, so in desperation he brings him on to try something different. That makes perfect sense to me. The only thing wrong with that, is that when he does come on, we don't adjust our style accordingly. 

If you rate Onuachu and/or think he's the best choice, that's fine. You might be right, but it's not stupidity to pick others ahead of him and then use him to try and rescue games. 

That's not to say I advocate not playing any striker at all, but when the choice is Onuachu, Adams, Mara and Armstrong, who have all let him down in games since he became manager, it's little wonder he's still searching for a solution.

I have a feeling Onuachu will get his chance on Friday. Lets hope he can play like he did against Chelsea and not like he did on Saturday.

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derry

derry

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Onuachu has a goalscoring record, most of his goals entail crosses and getting across defenders. All our other players are hopeless finishers. So play to his strengths and put the ball into the box and hope he gets on the end of it. Put somebody with him to occupy defenders and maybe give him an opportunity. Forget about all the possession in our own half and move the ball quickly. We paid a lot of money for him and the management haven't the wit to use his strengths. He isn't a midfield presser.

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gammon cheeks

gammon cheeks

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, derry said:

Onuachu has a goalscoring record, most of his goals entail crosses and getting across defenders. All our other players are hopeless finishers. So play to his strengths and put the ball into the box and hope he gets on the end of it. Put somebody with him to occupy defenders and maybe give him an opportunity. Forget about all the possession in our own half and move the ball quickly. We paid a lot of money for him and the management haven't the wit to use his strengths. He isn't a midfield presser.

Most fans can see what we need to do ......Our lap top ,stats ,red zone , no striker, play station manager cannot !

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Pamplemousse

Pamplemousse

Posted
Posted

You'd like to think all the teams around us losing would give some optimism to our players for this one that if we can get something we can get some momentum and get out of this.

Unfortunately, we can't score and we can't defend, so that plan is significantly flawed.

We lost what 6-1 there in our first season back? We'll go full circle I reckon against an Arsenal team pundits are beginning to write off and will have a point to prove.

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Osvaldorama

Osvaldorama

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, farawaysaint said:

Imagine if we win and Arsenal miss out on the title. At least we would have done something this season.

I mean sure we would be perpetuating Man City’s dominance but we would be a historical footnote and Arsenal fans would never forgive us.

 


Would be proper Saintsy tbh. 
 

Imagine if Theo scores the winner 

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captainchris

captainchris

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, derry said:

I am sick and tired of watching the turgid rubbish we are serving up. Two centrebacks and JWP passing it aimlessly around until Bazunu is left with no options but to hit it into a midfield stifled by a consolidated defence.

What's worse and the major cause of our demise are smartarse overqualified coaches masquerading as managers. For decades it's been obvious that playing players in positions they aren't comfortable in destroys the balance. Buying a big centre forward then playing two wide men cutting in means no crosses, it's elementary and the height of stupidity. No wonder we can't score goals and feeding on scraps.

Every team has a natural shape, change it and it will be the clusterfuck we experience week in week out. We have a team with a natural shape that could beat the pants off the teams our sophisticated theorists mess about with. Keep it simple stupid is the plan. KWP at right back Bednarek and ABK Perrault at left back. JWP and Lavia, Sulemana on the right, Djenepo on the left with Onuachu and Alcarez (Mara) right up as far as they can go in amongst the centre backs. No passing out short, no passing back unless no other choice. get the ball out to the wide men quickly. One full back only attacks at a time the other joins the Centre backs. One midfielder holds the other gets up in support. The wide player away from the ball gets to the back post. Just elementary high tempo football.

Last week we left out the nothing player, replaced by another nothing player, wide men on the wrong side, a right back on the left and a journeyman on the right and no striker. We got what we deserved, nothing. We don't pick Onuachu, so why do we bring him on two goals down to try and save the game? Sheer stupidity. JWP needs to get his head out of his arse and play forward. 

Excellent spot on summary Derry.

Elyounoussi will play at Arsenal and it will be Groundhog Day yet again. Selles has been hugely disappointing in my view and is over coaching or indeed micro managing us out of this league.

There are so many reasons that Selles has been poor but you have nailed the summary perfectly….

 

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captainchris

captainchris

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Chez said:

Is it? Selles doesn't rate Onuachu - and I don't blame him. That's why he picks others and has him on the bench. If you are two nil down, it's desperate times, so in desperation he brings him on to try something different. That makes perfect sense to me. The only thing wrong with that, is that when he does come on, we don't adjust our style accordingly. 

If you rate Onuachu and/or think he's the best choice, that's fine. You might be right, but it's not stupidity to pick others ahead of him and then use him to try and rescue games. 

That's not to say I advocate not playing any striker at all, but when the choice is Onuachu, Adams, Mara and Armstrong, who have all let him down in games since he became manager, it's little wonder he's still searching for a solution.

I have a feeling Onuachu will get his chance on Friday. Lets hope he can play like he did against Chelsea and not like he did on Saturday.

Selles has a dreadful habit of putting his best team on after 60minutes when the game is gone. Surely it would be prudent to play your potential scoring team from the start and not near the end.

Also what is the obsession with bring subs on after 60 minutes. There can be no reason for this. It is illogical that you always need subs after 60minutes.

Is it some kind of super game strategy? If it is it is clearly a poor unfounded plan with no basis of clarity in terms of a winning strategy, it is in fact clearly desperation which from a Premier League manager is foggy thinking and in fact a losers mentality.

Against Arsenal we cannot play Groundhog Day tactics, we have to surprise them, be dynamic and progressive from the start, flood the midfield, one striker up top, 4222 does not work, Christ we should know that by now! You cannot get service to the striker or strikers without winning the midfield and we are continually outnumbered there, hence we cannot transition the ball and make progress up the field and continually pass backwards. Selles is playing a theory game and not a practical game, his theories are not working. This ‘Playbook’ thing is a bloody joke.

Can you imagine Cortese tolerating the jokers we have had running the team, the gulf in professionalism is profound.

Just goes to show that success comes from the top…

 

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, captainchris said:

Selles has a dreadful habit of putting his best team on after 60minutes when the game is gone.

I'm not entirely sure what are best team is to be honest, everyone has had starts and no one has really impressed. Some players are perhaps more suited to cameo roles as opponents tire and there's more space to work in. Djenepo and Edozie might fall into that category. 

When it comes to timing of subs. For me they should be made when it's clear players are tiring or things are not working, which could be after 25 minutes, if a change in formation/tactic is not possible with the current players. Five subs is a lot and gives you plenty of scope to make an very early change.  

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
22 hours ago, Chez said:

Did the same at Brentford away. Picked Onuachu out, keeper challenged him and palmed the ball straight to Walcott who should have scored from the rebound. First half of the Chelsea game, JWP crossed to Onuachu and his header from about 6 yards went just past the post. Possibly should have done better, although Chilwell fouled him. So that's three occasions when JWP has delivered good balls to Onuachu off the top of my head. 

To be fair to JWP, it's not really a central midfielders job to get crosses into the box from open play. We have wingers and fullbacks that ought be doing that. Sadly none of them can cross a ball, maybe Bree apart. Perhaps he should find him more from set pieces, but if you take Saturday as an example, after Onuachu came on, we didn't really have many set pieces in the last twenty minutes, as we struggled to get up the pitch to earn any free kicks or corners.

I've commented on this on another thread, that when Onuachu comes on near the end of a game, the team needs to adjust and play a bit longer and little measured. Get the ball up to him and play off him. I certainly don't want to see our side play long ball football, and I wouldn't pick Onuachu partly for that reason, but if he does come on, it generally means we are behind and the short passing game has not worked. Sadly, on Saturday we just continued to try and work the chance. That is admiral, to a degree, and we did manufacture two chances for Alcaraz, but if we are going to do that (pass it short), then there is little point in bringing Onuachu on at all.  

Did you watch Theos post match inerview? He said something along the lines, I dont know why we kept to our principles and didnt change things. I wonder if he meant , go a bit long rather than tippy tap

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James

James

Posted
Posted (edited)

All I want is to stop with this overengineered false 9 crap - we are not good enough to play like that. The opposition doesn't have to think about us in possession as we are always so deep.

Honestly, I'd go 4-4-1-1 and play Charly just behind Big Paul (he might at least give Arsenal defenders something to think about). The few times we've actually put in a cross for Paul we've almost scored so let's focus on doing that more often.

At least AMN can't play on Friday so we are "forced" to play KWP in his best position. I sort of understood him playing LB last year as Tino was so good but continually playing on his weaker side to accommodate a player as crap as AMN has been madness.

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Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, James said:

All I want is to stop with this overengineered false 9 crap - we are not good enough to play like that. The opposition doesn't have to think about us in possession as we are always so deep.

Honestly, I'd go 4-4-1-1 and play Charly just behind Big Paul (he might at least give Arsenal defenders something to think about). The few times we've actually put in a cross for Paul we've almost scored so let's focus on doing that more often.

At least AMN can't play on Friday so we are "forced" to play KWP in his best position. I sort of understood him playing LB last year as Tino was so good but continually playing on his weaker side to accommodate a player as crap as AMN has been madness.

Agree

Think a lot of these coaches have become tactically dependent on how they play their football rather than using tactics as the springboard for an identity.

They watch the opposition game and go "ok we need to play like this to beat them" so become tinkermen who have secret pep fantasy's about how clever they are tactically.

Someone needs to just go fuck it, lets ossie ardiles it for the last few games and fuck off defending as our main focus point and instead focus on attacking and try and score more than them.

 

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OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

Posted
Posted

Arsenal starting to implode, they play attacking football leaving gaps for us to exploit, our players wanting to put on a show against a top team for their next contract (and it's live on TV) - it won't be 5/6 - 0. It wouldn't even surprise me if we won this game and still bugger up staying in the premiership.

What's annoying is there's so much crap at the bottom of the League; just a pity we're the crappiest 😕

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