ant Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 4 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said: If a stats based approach means going into a game with no centre forward and a player who scored the week before doesn’t get a minute in next game then I’m not convinced it’s correct approach What a bizarre extrapolation of what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 17 minutes ago, ant said: What a bizarre extrapolation of what I said. Football is a simple easy game yet we seem to have been blinded by stats and seeking some blue sky thinking based on them. I am old school and know it’s outdated but pick best players put them in best natural positions not KWP playing left back. Have a focal point players like the very good Alcaraz can play off. Pick the team based on performance on the pitch Mara scores then dropped. Ely useless most weeks but plays. Aribo not on bench few weeks yet starts. I know that’s bizarre these days of XG etc but it’s a forum and my views of this season’s shit show. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 56 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said: Football is a simple easy game yet we seem to have been blinded by stats and seeking some blue sky thinking based on them. I am old school and know it’s outdated but pick best players put them in best natural positions not KWP playing left back. Have a focal point players like the very good Alcaraz can play off. Pick the team based on performance on the pitch Mara scores then dropped. Ely useless most weeks but plays. Aribo not on bench few weeks yet starts. I know that’s bizarre these days of XG etc but it’s a forum and my views of this season’s shit show. Our xG yesterday was very similar to that of Palace yet somehow we managed a comfortable 0-2 defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 16 hours ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said: Earlier in the season we were begging for Saints to replace Hasenhuttl as manager. While the vast majority of fans got to stage of pressing this view by the time he was sacked, some were less quick to call for him to be sacked and one phrase that was mentioned was 'Be careful what you wish for'. Now, I am not wishing to criticise anyone here - it was clear that we were no longer delivering what we all expected under Ralph this season and so we did need a change - but I do wonder whether our enthusiasm for change failed to account for the possibility that the club may not have a clue what to look for in a replacement. With the benefit of hindsight, I would suggest that it has become clear that in this area Sports Republic have been woefully lacking. It also leads to the question: Which of our managers has been the worst this season and which has been least bad? My suggestion is that Hasenhuttl has been the least bad of three below-average managers. I find myself wondering whether we might have been in a better position than we are now if we had kept him on - especially with the opportunity to vary things with new signings in January. Ralph should have gone in the summer and we should have appointed a competent replacement and signed a decent striker and goalkeeper. Instead Ankersen and SR allowed Ralph to bumble on until eventually he had to go. Ankersen then compounded the original error by appointing Jones which, in turn, led to Selles being promoted. If you then factor in the huge sums we have wasted on very poor signings it is no surprise we are the worst team in the Premier league. I'm afraid Ankersen and SR have been a complete disaster and I'm not sure where we go from here as the club is in free fall. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 15 hours ago, Greenridge said: Blackmore just tweeted that we had more points in the 14 games under Ralph than we have in the 17 games since. Non-arguable. #fanpower Totally irrelevant. We'd have been relegated with Ralph still in charge judging by his record over a long period. He'd lost the plot and probably the dressing room. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 3 minutes ago, saintant said: Ralph should have gone in the summer and we should have appointed a competent replacement and signed a decent striker and goalkeeper. Instead Ankersen and SR allowed Ralph to bumble on until eventually he had to go. Ankersen then compounded the original error by appointing Jones which, in turn, led to Selles being promoted. If you then factor in the huge sums we have wasted on very poor signings it is no surprise we are the worst team in the Premier league. I'm afraid Ankersen and SR have been a complete disaster and I'm not sure where we go from here as the club is in free fall. Where do we go? We find our own level, wherever that may be. That’s the whole point of a relegation and promotion system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 Just now, Whitey Grandad said: Where do we go? We find our own level, wherever that may be. That’s the whole point of a relegation and promotion system. I agree but what I'm unsure about is what that level will be under the clowns that are Ankersen, Semmens and SR in general. The thought of them trying to reset the club at a crucial period fills me with dread. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Give it to Ron said: Football is a simple easy game yet we seem to have been blinded by stats and seeking some blue sky thinking based on them. I am old school and know it’s outdated but pick best players put them in best natural positions not KWP playing left back. Have a focal point players like the very good Alcaraz can play off. Pick the team based on performance on the pitch Mara scores then dropped. Ely useless most weeks but plays. Aribo not on bench few weeks yet starts. I know that’s bizarre these days of XG etc but it’s a forum and my views of this season’s shit show. None of which is relevant to what I said, i.e. that Brighton are doing very nicely off the back of a stats-led approach. Let's call a spade a spade: the odd formations and tactics on the pitch are symptomatic of Sellés being clueless. Data doesn't come into it. Edited 16 April, 2023 by ant 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 2 minutes ago, ant said: None of which is relevant to what I said, i.e. that Brighton are doing very nicely off the back of a stats-led approach. Let's call a spade a spade: the odd formations and tactics on the pitch are symptomatic of Sellés being clueless. I think Brighton are everything we aren’t. Well run , good owner understands game, invests well, great transfer system and recruitment. Brighton replaced Potter with a better manager we get Jones and Selles. Agreed about Selles being clueless a poor man’s Ralph. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 2 hours ago, ant said: The Brighton point is interesting, as they take a hugely analytical, stats-based approach. That tact isn't necessarily wrong (despite what some on here will lead you to believe). The failure point comes on the human side. Picking the wrong metrics, analysing the data incorrectly, etc. etc. Ankersen et al are spectacular human failure points. Spot on. Lots of, if not all, successful clubs use analytics and statistics to inform their tactics and transfers. The reason they are successful is because they have the right people to implement them whereas at the moment we do not. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said: Where do we go? We find our own level, wherever that may be. That’s the whole point of a relegation and promotion system. Take the emotional element away from supporting a football team and, yep, relegation is ultimately inevitable for a club of our size at some point in time. Even if all 20 clubs were as good as the Man Citys and Arsenals of this world, 3 would still be relegated. As my pub landlord says on quiz nite: there's no shame in losing, someone has to lose. The trouble with this Saints team though is they can't even be arsed to answer all of the questions... and the team captain is asking the geography expert to answer the music questions... (Other analogies are available) Edited 16 April, 2023 by trousers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 4 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said: Letting Romeu leave when we did was insane. Idiotic fans like me said so at the time, and I am not an elite sports professional. I'm convinced the sale of Romeu was linked in with the purchases of Edozie/Larios in some weird way, i.e it enabled us to get them cheaper or something like that. (Girona are part of the City Football Group). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 21 hours ago, sydney_saint said: Those that were frothing at the mouth to get rid of him didn't have a plan. They just wanted him out. There were few reasonable available managers out there available. Replace him for sure if there was an Emery willing to take over. But there was hardly anyone. They seemed to think things couldn't worse. Well they damn well did. People can say 'sacking him wasnt wrong, it was the replacements that was the issues'. But how many good replacements were out there that would realistically have taken the job? We were always more likely to end up with a downgrade like Jones than we were to find Emery or Lopetegui. If Ralph was still here, we would have about 5 more points. We would still have a chance. But those that frothed will never possibly imagine that they made a mistake. As said, happy to get rid for a clear upgrade. But even at the time I scrolled throw the prospective maangers list, and it was underwhelming manager after underwhelming. I felt our best chance was to get Ralph a break with the world cup. Let him try to find his spark and mojo again. The summer was hard cos it was shortened and we had a huge changeover of players. He should have had the world cup period to rediscover that zip. Utter drivel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 21 hours ago, stknowle said: I wished for a new manager that was better than Hassnhuttl. I clearly wasn’t careful enough in so wishing. Next time a wish for a new manager enters my head I’ll be sure to add the words “who is definitely better than the currrent cunt” to the end of the wish. Think we need to set the bar higher than that 😀. Every season, Ralph seemed to get the team playing like Barcelona for half a dozen games before we'd revert back to our usual crap and this season it didn't happen. He seemed to change with the change of ownership at the club and from there it went downhill. I still remember him taking the plaudits from the fans at Leicester on his own after the players had turned to go back in and thought it was a bit odd. Like the poster who commented on Brighton and how they find their managers, that's what we need to do. Find another Ralph when he first came to the club and that should stop the rot. Don't go fishing in the usual pond merry-go-round managers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 Some people have very short memories and seem to have forgotten just how bad things had got under Ralph. We were on a run at the end of last season that was just as bad as anything we’ve seen this season. Anyone that thinks this season would have been different if he had stayed longer is kidding themselves. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 1 minute ago, RedArmy said: Some people have very short memories and seem to have forgotten just how bad things had got under Ralph. We were on a run at the end of last season that was just as bad as anything we’ve seen this season. Anyone that thinks this season would have been different if he had stayed longer is kidding themselves. Weren’t we 90th out of 92 in the country for results in 2022? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 1st out of 92 for 'Jazz Hands' though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archers Road Stand Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 9 minutes ago, RedArmy said: Some people have very short memories and seem to have forgotten just how bad things had got under Ralph. We were on a run at the end of last season that was just as bad as anything we’ve seen this season. Anyone that thinks this season would have been different if he had stayed longer is kidding themselves. It was largely shite from the second 9-0. We just had a little purple patch from December 2021 to the end of February 2022. It was stupid not to sack him after the 4-1 defeat against Leicester at the end of last season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 13 minutes ago, RedArmy said: Some people have very short memories and seem to have forgotten just how bad things had got under Ralph. We were on a run at the end of last season that was just as bad as anything we’ve seen this season. Anyone that thinks this season would have been different if he had stayed longer is kidding themselves. The difference with that season is that after 27 games we were 10th in the table partly due to Broja's goals. After the 4-0 defeat at Villa it was downhill, but we had enough points in the bag to survive. This season we were bottom after game 27 and that's probably where we'll end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Katalinic's 'tache Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 We replaced an experienced top flight manager with someone who had never managed in the top flight then with someone who had never managed. No surprise how it's turning out! Ralph did a decent job but his time to go should've been in the summer. Jones was horrendous both in terms of the way he managed the team and his own personal presentation. And while Ruben treated himself to a new suit and a roll neck jumper to celebrate being made manager, it's no more than simply polishing a turd. Whilst all 3 haven't been helped by our pathetic recruitment strategy and the players haven't covered themselves in glory, neither has there been a consistent plan to get the best from a bad bunch with all the chopping and changing. If the inevitable happens and we go down this season, it represents a chance for us to do a proper rebuild, get some experienced heads around the talented youngsters who remain but, most importantly, led by an experienced manager who knows what he's doing and can give us our best chance of returning to the Premier League. Over to you Rasmus, although your form to date doesn't bode well... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 11 hours ago, S-Clarke said: I'm convinced the sale of Romeu was linked in with the purchases of Edozie/Larios in some weird way, i.e it enabled us to get them cheaper or something like that. (Girona are part of the City Football Group). I think you are correct , definitely inter connected, Romeu played well and scored for Girona in their win today, I do think we miss him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 5 hours ago, ecuk268 said: The difference with that season is that after 27 games we were 10th in the table partly due to Broja's goals. After the 4-0 defeat at Villa it was downhill, but we had enough points in the bag to survive. This season we were bottom after game 27 and that's probably where we'll end up. Good point, go back and watch last seasons goals, what a player Broja was in some of the games, definitely added quite a few points to our tally and we never replaced him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorsaint Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 Would have liked Ralph to stay. Don’t believe we would be where we are with Ralph in charge. Would have given him the season. Moot point though. I disliked Jones from day 1. Total pie in sky appointment. He is who relegated us. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjosaint Posted 16 April, 2023 Share Posted 16 April, 2023 He was already given too long 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 17 April, 2023 Share Posted 17 April, 2023 14 hours ago, Turkish said: Utter drivel So you don't believe we would have about 5 points more if we left Ralph in charge, bearing in mind we got more points from his 14 games then the next 17, and the next 17 had far more winnable games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 17 April, 2023 Share Posted 17 April, 2023 22 minutes ago, sydney_saint said: So you don't believe we would have about 5 points more if we left Ralph in charge, bearing in mind we got more points from his 14 games then the next 17, and the next 17 had far more winnable games? it's impossible to say what might have happened but what we don know is that for the entire of the calendar year of 2022 where Ralph was in charge but for all of 3 league games we were bottom of that league too with 31 points. We were also the 90th worst out of 92 team in the country, so over an extended period under Ralph we were absolutely shit and down as well. As for your point about those that wanted Ralph out not having a plan, that's hilarious, why do you think it's the fans job to have a plan? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 17 April, 2023 Share Posted 17 April, 2023 Though most fans would have a better plan at this point. Too many stats, analysts and laptops involved, surely we just need some common sense - Set-up to have some attacking threat, perhaps with some urgency. Put players in their best roles. Practice defending set pieces. Players give 100% and try to look like they care. Instill the idea that if we do go down, we will go down fighting. It's not rocket science. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 17 April, 2023 Share Posted 17 April, 2023 17 hours ago, RedArmy said: Some people have very short memories and seem to have forgotten just how bad things had got under Ralph. We were on a run at the end of last season that was just as bad as anything we’ve seen this season. Anyone that thinks this season would have been different if he had stayed longer is kidding themselves. You have to put the end of last season into context though, Ralph already had us safe from relegation by the end of February and the team had nothing to play for. Plus Broja downed tools. He had previously had bad runs and turned it around. I don't think we would be any where near where we are had he stayed and had Lavia fit and the new signings to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent Saint Posted 17 April, 2023 Share Posted 17 April, 2023 Ralph was f*cked mentally at the end , he would have plodded on like Selles until he was booted out . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophenburg Posted 17 April, 2023 Share Posted 17 April, 2023 On 15/04/2023 at 20:02, Turkish said: Quite. Selles record of 2 wins, 2 draws, 5 losses plus a cup exit v league two Grimsby puts him well on track to be up there with the top 10 worst premier league managers of all time by the end of the season. Jones is already up there, possibly in first place. Steve Wigley already in there. So we could have 3 of the top 10 by the end of the season. Quite some achievement to have two in the same season though. https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/worst-10-premier-league-managers-22173739 their shiteness doesn’t make Ralph a genius I thought Paul Jewell was statistically the worst PL ever? In 07/08 Derby didn't win a single game and were relegated by March with just 5 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian the Red Posted 17 April, 2023 Share Posted 17 April, 2023 One point over looked by most is that if we had bought a striker that can score, last summer we would still have Ralph in charge and we would be mid table. Then Ralph would have gone after the season finished s he wanted to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 17 April, 2023 Share Posted 17 April, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Christophenburg said: I thought Paul Jewell was statistically the worst PL ever? In 07/08 Derby didn't win a single game and were relegated by March with just 5 points Probably is to be fair, but they won 1 game and were relegated with 11 points. Billy Davies was in charge at the start of the season and Jewell came in end of November. Saints weren't in the premier league that season as we all know if we were they'd have ended with 17 points and 3 wins. Edited 17 April, 2023 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SotonianWill Posted 17 April, 2023 Share Posted 17 April, 2023 7 minutes ago, Turkish said: Saints weren't in the premier league that season was that the season after derby knocked us out in the play off semis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 17 April, 2023 Share Posted 17 April, 2023 4 minutes ago, SotonianWill said: was that the season after derby knocked us out in the play off semis? It was indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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