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Financial results due 31st March

EBS1980

By EBS1980,
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EBS1980

EBS1980

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The latest set of accounts are due with companies house by tomorrow (for year ending 30june22) The first under SR.

It will be interesting to see if any cash injection was done as a loan or share capital. they won’t include the summer spending but still expecting them to show a loss, just depends how big a one.

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Chez

Chez

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1 hour ago, Turkish said:

that's actually a lot better than expected.

I'm not really qualified to read and summarise financial accounts, but they are available here if you'd like to take a closer look: https://www.southamptonfc.com/-/media/Files/Other/St Marys Football Group Ltd Financial Statements 2022

What I took from them:

It is difficult to compare 20/21 with 21/22 financial years, because 20/21 had 6 extra games in it, carried over from the previous season due to the pandemic. So comparing years offers little value.

It seem to be an actual loss of £13.2m after taxation.

Another £7m of the loan money left the bank account, I guess to cover costs. £21m remained in June 2022. 

We paid £0 of the loan off. £8m of interest was added to the loan.

Net debt £70.8m, up about £8m.

Turnover £150m. Wages to turnover ratio now 75%. Wage bill £112m (no change on 20/21).

Gave over £100k to charity. Spent a wedge on upgrading the Hero suite at SMS and the gym at the training ground.

The summer (Bazunu apart - as his transfer is part of these accounts) and winter transfer dealings will obviously change the financial position somewhat, with remaining money from the bank used, shareholder cash injection, increased debt, maybe.  

 

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Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

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14 hours ago, Archers Road Stand said:

Seems mental that Bournemouth were allowed to run up £56m of losses in the Championship. I wonder if they'll face any FFP punishment for that if they go down. 

Definitely shows the power of the parachute payments. 

I think they probably “gambled” on going up, similar to Villa in recent years. Bournemouths finances always intrigue me, given the size of the club and how much they spend on transfer fees. 

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Chez

Chez

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4 hours ago, skintsaint said:

This thread a lot quieter than I thought. Maybe because the financial results were better than expected for that year.

It's difficult to understand the actual state of the finances club because the figures show the position at June 2022, so 9 months ago. Since then we have had two transfer windows with a huge amount of spending and very little in the way of transfer monies back.  Next year's accounts will show all that, and I guess it will reveal significant losses. However, in turn, next year's accounts won't show the (potential) player sales this summer (maybe Lavia) that help balance the books (should that happen).

Right how we have about £70m of net debt, plus about £115m of transfer fees to add on top of that. So debt could rise to £185m. We have £20m in the bank, so let's say we are -£165m.

If we go down, our income will crash.  £115m of TV money will drop to about £40m (parachute payment). Match day £17m and commercial £16m revenue will suffer too, perhaps not to the same extent, but it will still be significant. Let's say we lose £10m across those. That's a combined £85m less income compared to being in the prem. 

We lost £13m last year with the Prem money. Without it? Even if we halved our £112m wage bill (which wont be easy to do), we'd still be about £45m short of breaking even.

Roughly -£165m and at least £45m losses next season in the Championship (realistically it could be higher), just shows the financial problems we potentially face. Lets hope for a win tomorrow.

 

 

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Turkish

Turkish

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On 01/04/2023 at 06:52, Saint Garrett said:

I think they probably “gambled” on going up, similar to Villa in recent years. Bournemouths finances always intrigue me, given the size of the club and how much they spend on transfer fees. 

I expect we will do the same next season. The problem is it’ll be Rasmus’s blue sky thinking along with Semmens power point marketing plans that are doing the gambling.

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Turkish

Turkish

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9 minutes ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

Has anyone seen what can only be assumed to be Martin Semmens’ salary? In the echo today 🤔

Whatever he’s paid it’s not enough. Remember the sacrifices he has to make of being away from his family a few times a year watching our games.

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Scottie

Scottie

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23 hours ago, Chez said:

It's difficult to understand the actual state of the finances club because the figures show the position at June 2022, so 9 months ago. Since then we have had two transfer windows with a huge amount of spending and very little in the way of transfer monies back.  Next year's accounts will show all that, and I guess it will reveal significant losses. However, in turn, next year's accounts won't show the (potential) player sales this summer (maybe Lavia) that help balance the books (should that happen).

Right how we have about £70m of net debt, plus about £115m of transfer fees to add on top of that. So debt could rise to £185m. We have £20m in the bank, so let's say we are -£165m.

If we go down, our income will crash.  £115m of TV money will drop to about £40m (parachute payment). Match day £17m and commercial £16m revenue will suffer too, perhaps not to the same extent, but it will still be significant. Let's say we lose £10m across those. That's a combined £85m less income compared to being in the prem. 

We lost £13m last year with the Prem money. Without it? Even if we halved our £112m wage bill (which wont be easy to do), we'd still be about £45m short of breaking even.

Roughly -£165m and at least £45m losses next season in the Championship (realistically it could be higher), just shows the financial problems we potentially face. Lets hope for a win tomorrow.

 

 

Undoubtedly we have relegation clauses in the players contracts. The papers quote standard in the league as 25% to 40%. Assume it’s the lower at 25% and that leaves us £28m short on wages based on your numbers. £5m of that covered by Maitland-Nile’s and Walcott. Presume Prowsey will want to go so another £5m off the wage bill and maybe £35m towards the losses
 

Sell Salisu given his contract situation for £20m and you have covered the losses (with £10m to spare). Okay £15m or so short on wages so offset that with the extra sales and more or less there.

Any other sales, use the money for replacements.

 

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Chez

Chez

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7 hours ago, Scottie said:

Undoubtedly we have relegation clauses in the players contracts. The papers quote standard in the league as 25% to 40%. Assume it’s the lower at 25% and that leaves us £28m short on wages based on your numbers. £5m of that covered by Maitland-Nile’s and Walcott. Presume Prowsey will want to go so another £5m off the wage bill and maybe £35m towards the losses
 

Sell Salisu given his contract situation for £20m and you have covered the losses (with £10m to spare). Okay £15m or so short on wages so offset that with the extra sales and more or less there.

Any other sales, use the money for replacements.

 

By my fag packet maths, we are £85m short and that's to make a £13m loss, so we are actually about £98m short to break even.

A 25% reduction in wages only saves £28m. 40% reduction saves £45m. Let's go with the higher figure. We still need to find £53m just to stop adding to the debt. Actually, £8m will be added in interest, so it's actually £61m to stop the debt rising, but hey, who's counting?

And that's just for year one. Every year we are in the Championship is a year of further loss making. Pretty much every senior player will be on wages too high for the Championship. They will all need to go, but only Ely, Theo and Willy are out of contract.

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Turkish

Turkish

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3 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

“There are six listed directors. Directors’ remuneration totalled to £1.89m with the highest-paid individual director receiving £831,000 (2021: £971,000).”

Jesus wept. That’s crazy. Isn’t that about 5% of turnover? 

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benjii

benjii

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I said at the time that Mediocre Martin should have had no part in selecting Gao's purchasers. He had a huge conflict of interest as anyone with serious clout would have got rid of him pronto.

The big task this summer is maximising the incoming from JWP, KWP, Salisu, ABK and Lavia. That ought to be comfortably 150m+ of sales if we play it right. Plus someone will probably punt 20m or so on Adams (although we should try to keep him). And if we let Tella  go to Burnley that should be at least 25m. Stephens - sale to Bournemouth if they stay up?

So 200m of sales is quite realistic. Not sure about DCC and Orsic. Guess they might go on loan somewhere. Walcott, Willy and AMN will be off the payroll. Stu Armstrong off to Scotland.

Keep hold of Sulemana, Tall Paul, Alcaraz. Current GKs will be fine for Champ. Keep Perraud, Livramento, Larios. Maybe Bednarek. Get Smallbone back. Keep Adam Armstrong. Not a fan, but probably keep Elyounoussi too as he seems like a stable character and should be more effective. Djenepo? 

Basically means we need a rebuild at centre back and centre mid and cover at right back in case Tino isn't fit.... oh, yeah, Bree!

 

Bazunu

Tino, Bednarek/New, New, Perraud

New, Smallbone, Alcaraz

New, Tall Paul/Armstrong, Sulemana

If we can get some experienced quality at CB and CM it shouldn't look too bad.

Earn your corn, Semmens.

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EBS1980

EBS1980

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9 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

“There are six listed directors. Directors’ remuneration totalled to £1.89m with the highest-paid individual director receiving £831,000 (2021: £971,000).”

That’s quite low in comparison to most PL clubs. Most are well over a million

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OldNick

OldNick

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6 hours ago, benjii said:

I said at the time that Mediocre Martin should have had no part in selecting Gao's purchasers. He had a huge conflict of interest as anyone with serious clout would have got rid of him pronto.

The big task this summer is maximising the incoming from JWP, KWP, Salisu, ABK and Lavia. That ought to be comfortably 150m+ of sales if we play it right. Plus someone will probably punt 20m or so on Adams (although we should try to keep him). And if we let Tella  go to Burnley that should be at least 25m. Stephens - sale to Bournemouth if they stay up?

So 200m of sales is quite realistic. Not sure about DCC and Orsic. Guess they might go on loan somewhere. Walcott, Willy and AMN will be off the payroll. Stu Armstrong off to Scotland.

Keep hold of Sulemana, Tall Paul, Alcaraz. Current GKs will be fine for Champ. Keep Perraud, Livramento, Larios. Maybe Bednarek. Get Smallbone back. Keep Adam Armstrong. Not a fan, but probably keep Elyounoussi too as he seems like a stable character and should be more effective. Djenepo? 

Basically means we need a rebuild at centre back and centre mid and cover at right back in case Tino isn't fit.... oh, yeah, Bree!

 

Bazunu

Tino, Bednarek/New, New, Perraud

New, Smallbone, Alcaraz

New, Tall Paul/Armstrong, Sulemana

If we can get some experienced quality at CB and CM it shouldn't look too bad.

Earn your corn, Semmens.

we will be left with the crate of tomato's that have been picked over in the supermarket by the shoppers and only the rotten ones are left on the bottom. 

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Chez

Chez

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8 hours ago, benjii said:

The big task this summer is maximising the incoming from JWP, KWP, Salisu, ABK and Lavia. That ought to be comfortably 150m+ of sales if we play it right. Plus someone will probably punt 20m or so on Adams (although we should try to keep him). And if we let Tella  go to Burnley that should be at least 25m. Stephens - sale to Bournemouth if they stay up?

So 200m of sales is quite realistic. Not sure about DCC and Orsic. Guess they might go on loan somewhere. Walcott, Willy and AMN will be off the payroll. Stu Armstrong off to Scotland.

Burnley's sales after relegation might give some insight into the likely incomes. Collins was sold for £20m. Cornet for £17m, McNeil (one year on contract) went for £15m, Pope for £10m. 

 

 

 

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

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1 hour ago, Chez said:

Burnley's sales after relegation might give some insight into the likely incomes. Collins was sold for £20m. Cornet for £17m, McNeil (one year on contract) went for £15m, Pope for £10m. 

 

 

 

I think Pope had a crazy relegation clause in his contract which had that low fee, if that wasn't in his contract you'd have been looking at £25m at least imo. Cornet's was a release clause as well.

I can see us generating at least £90m from just two sales, JWP and Lavia. We'll lose Salisu, ABK, KWP, Adams and the like as well - so we'll certainly be well into the £100m's of funds generated in my opinion. Add the £60m parachute payments and financially we have no excuse and we will be able to compete for the first two years, but using that finance correctly is what concerns me. Get it wrong in year 1 and let those mistakes spill over to year 2 and that's pretty much game over for us in terms of a top flight club in many of our life times imo. The gap will just become to big to bridge eventually.

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Turkish

Turkish

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On 02/04/2023 at 22:21, ErwinK1961 said:

“There are six listed directors. Directors’ remuneration totalled to £1.89m with the highest-paid individual director receiving £831,000 (2021: £971,000).”

Apparently the back office staff have been given advance warning of job losses when we go down. Meanwhile the person responsible for failings is pocketing nearly £1m 

Hope he is happy looking at himself in the mirror the night they told them 

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Crab Lungs

Crab Lungs

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1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Apparently the back office staff have been given advance warning of job losses when we go down. Meanwhile the person responsible for failings is pocketing nearly £1m 

Hope he is happy looking at himself in the mirror the night they told them 

Shiseters run right through the club in the footballing positions. From club directors to our recruitment team to our players. Every single one of them a Moi in their respective fields.

anyway, when he did tell them I’m pretty sure the message was delivered in a calm and relaxed tone.

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Turkish

Turkish

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41 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

Shiseters run right through the club in the footballing positions. From club directors to our recruitment team to our players. Every single one of them a Moi in their respective fields.

anyway, when he did tell them I’m pretty sure the message was delivered in a calm and relaxed tone.

Smug, self congratulatory bellends. I’m no fan of the fan on the board thing but I reckon you could have taken a group of fans off here and they could have done a better job. I can’t imagine a single one would have appointed Jones for starters

It’s going to be interesting hearing their spin at the end of the season and how they deflect or excuse the blame. 

Edited by Turkish
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Crab Lungs

Crab Lungs

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Just now, Turkish said:

Smug, self congratulatory bellends. I’m no fan of the fan on the board thing but I reckon you could have taken a group of fans off here and they could have done a better job. I can’t imagine a single one would have appointed Jones for starters

I have always been someone of the opinion that wouldn’t want a fan on the board… but someone made a good point to me the other day.

As long as it’s right person, it’s worth taking into account a fan has probably watched the team home and way for seasons, has a fairly good level of the club and it’s history, traditions so is in touch with those and with that in mind, surely with that decent base-level knowledge, they’d be in a far more informed position than many to have a say at what happens at their football club, surely?

Made me think. And then I thought…

 

2C9D3018-88E8-4D83-A8B1-9A894011EB64.jpeg

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Turkish

Turkish

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4 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

I have always been someone of the opinion that wouldn’t want a fan on the board… but someone made a good point to me the other day.

As long as it’s right person, it’s worth taking into account a fan has probably watched the team home and way for seasons, has a fairly good level of the club and it’s history, traditions so is in touch with those and with that in mind, surely with that decent base-level knowledge, they’d be in a far more informed position than many to have a say at what happens at their football club, surely?

Made me think. And then I thought…

 

2C9D3018-88E8-4D83-A8B1-9A894011EB64.jpeg

You’d get my vote. 🙋🏾

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It’s going to be interesting hearing their spin at the end of the season and how they deflect or excuse the blame. 

Probably something along the lines that we plebs can't see the "reference points" behind the scenes, and that they are completely relaxed and financially prepared for the 6th biggest league in the world.

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Crab Lungs

Crab Lungs

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1 hour ago, Turkish said:

You’d get my vote. 🙋🏾

Thank you. An astute vote! Will you come and watch the new transitioning team? It will be the focus of my tenure. M to F, F to M pathways for both teams. Might just swap the teams around completely next year. Bud light on the concourses. 😉

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