West Ham 1-0 Saints - Match Thread

[hackedoff]

Here we go,here we go,here we go............

 

.

[Miltonaggro]

Fucks sake. Think we are cooked gentlemen. 

[Turkish]

18 minutes ago, JRM said:

This 1-0 defeat along with the Leeds and Nottm Forest 1-0 defeats highlight how well deserved our relegation is, opportunity against another side in the bottom 3 and we consistently fail to take it. 

The two wolves ones as well. Losing 2-1 when playing  a crap team with 10 men for an hour and being a goal up is unforgivable. Adams cocking up an open goal from a foot out in the away game sums the club up. If we’d even got draws in those 4 games wolves would be bottom and we’d be 15th. 

[Turkish]

25 minutes ago, JRM said:

I've not gone back and read it but I'm sure I said at the time the 8/10 window was the biggest nonsense I'd heard for ages, mostly untested youngsters who we had no idea if they could step up to mens football let alone Premier league,  a lot of people allowed themselves to fall into the trap of equating signings from Man City as top players when the likes of Bazunu, Edozie and Larios were complete unknowns at this level. Lavia was as well to be fair, but overall return on investment for transfers has been abysmal , Joe Shields probably did well out of it though. 

Something not right about it. 4 Man City academy players costing £40 odd million and the guy responsible clears off after 6 months. Very odd.

[Mixedkebab]

This lot make the 2005 helmets look dedicated and brave. 

With the exception of Lavia, who consistently does his job, and KWP and JWP who have enough credit in the bank,  I can’t stand the sight of any of them any more.

Having said that I thought JWP had a very bad day today with slow sideways/backwards play which he frustratingly does too often against these lower ranked sides. Whether it’s his fault or the manager’s/ team mates I just don’t know any more.

 

[Convict Colony]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Something not right about it. 4 Man City academy players costing £40 odd million and the guy responsible clears off after 6 months. Very odd.

Bought potential which doesn't equate to instant performance - with potential you have to see how it develops, we will reap the benefits over the coming years.

Guy left cos he was offered a promotion, a lot more cash (assumed) and is also from London to work with a champs league club.

Dont look for narratives where logic can apply.

[JCBSaint]

I love my team and will defend them when people joke and take the p***slag us off, all that crap .. I just can’t see us getting enough points and feel we are just slipping beneath the waves without a fight, that’s what hurts the most, we seem to be so negative, it’s as if the players think we have so much time to get out of this.. I watched today,, the amount of passing backwards and sideways .. I just don’t get it .. why does every team seem to do it?? Possession football??? Just score goals!

[alehouseboys]

5 minutes ago, Mixedkebab said:

This lot make the 2005 helmets look dedicated and brave. 

I don't know about that having been inside the shithole on portsea island that year, that was the most frail bunch of pussies I've ever had to watch. And we didn't get in until nearly half time!

[Tanlee]

Our lack of urgency was only beaten by our lack of ideas, only one thing around the corner for this clueless bunch 

[CylonKing]

Didn't think we looked bad today, pretty good until the final 3rd. Some decent football, no pace or cutting edge though, same old, same old. Was that the first decent cross to Tall Paul we've put in since he joined...and he nearly scored from it? Think we're done for now, cannot see us getting enough points from what we have remaining.

[JRM]

2 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

Plus the majority of the away games are up north 

Are they? Not sure especially when you look at 2 going up and 3 going down 

Tickets not necessarily more expensive, a mate of mine follows Reading and they offer £20 with any team who will reciprocate, they are not a fashionable team but seem to get fair prices at most aways. 

[Mixedkebab]

21 minutes ago, alehouseboys said:

I don't know about that having been inside the shithole on portsea island that year, that was the most frail bunch of pussies I've ever had to watch. And we didn't get in until nearly half time!

I was going to say at least we didn’t have to play the mockney bellends this season as I’m sure this lot would’ve buckled like Quashie and co 

[Saint Billy]

1 hour ago, Dark Munster said:

I thought he had a good game today.

Stu Armstrong on the other hand ...

What constitutes a good game with this lot, completing one successful pass maybe? 

[skintsaint]

Well I am now at the acceptance part of the five stages of grief at least.

[Mr X]

Probably the game that would make or break us and we simply didn't look up for it today... Despite a two week break their was zero urgency or cutting edge....the players are equally to blame but that was never an attack minded starting 11 in a month of Sundays 

[Kenilworthy]

31 minutes ago, JRM said:

Are they? Not sure especially when you look at 2 going up and 3 going down 

Tickets not necessarily more expensive, a mate of mine follows Reading and they offer £20 with any team who will reciprocate, they are not a fashionable team but seem to get fair prices at most aways. 

On average I guess away tickets will work out about the same over the season even without the price cap we benefit from now. But there are going to be four more away games, so with travel it is going to be quite a bit more expensive. And I bet season tickets will cost the same on the basis of the extra games.

[Saint Billy]

11 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Probably the game that would make or break us and we simply didn't look up for it today... Despite a two week break their was zero urgency or cutting edge....the players are equally to blame but that was never an attack minded starting 11 in a month of Sundays 

We are normally shit after a break. Actually we are shit with or without a break. To be honest, we are shit. 

[S-Clarke]

44 minutes ago, CylonKing said:

Didn't think we looked bad today, pretty good until the final 3rd. Some decent football, no pace or cutting edge though, same old, same old. Was that the first decent cross to Tall Paul we've put in since he joined...and he nearly scored from it? Think we're done for now, cannot see us getting enough points from what we have remaining.

This is where meaningless passing of the ball in 'safe' areas of the pitch dilutes the 'true' performance, and can make it feel and look like we played better than we did.

West Ham were happy to drop back and let us have the ball in front of them, and we're fantastic at passing the ball to team mates when we have no pressure on us.

In terms of trying to win a game of football we were a disgrace. 

[LaptopSaint]

Meanwhile Nathan Redmond's had another stormer for Besiktas - 1 goal and three assists after they went down to ten men. 

But we've still got Adam Armstrong on the bench. 

 

[Galway saint]

10 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is where meaningless passing of the ball in 'safe' areas of the pitch dilutes the 'true' performance, and can make it feel and look like we played better than we did.

West Ham were happy to drop back and let us have the ball in front of them, and we're fantastic at passing the ball to team mates when we have no pressure on us.

In terms of trying to win a game of football we were a disgrace. 

I agree - you could see WH were very tentative in that first twenty minutes but instead of going for it we were happy to play passive crap football and be happy at 0-0. We seem incapable of setting the tempo and taking the game to opponents unless we are behind and by then it’s generally too late as we rarely score from open play.

on a positive note bazanu seems to be improving and less of a liability than a couple of months ago

[OttawaSaint]

Like fucking groundhog day watching these losers.

Whatever manager doesn't pick our best players then they start negatively with a tepid intensity and spent however long it takes for the other team to score just passing it around until we go up the park, pass it to the oppo, rinse and repeat. 

After the goal we don't change our mentality at all and wait for subs. After the subs we invariably have about 5 good minutes of play then we slowly start to begin our warm down, clock watching until shower time.

Then it gets trotted out. "We were unlucky". Were we fuck, we were passive, sloppy and toothless. Just like 95% of our games. 

[Chez]

we can pass the ball under no pressure all day long. When the space disappears, the lack of quality, first touch, dribbling skill, creativity and talent starts to show.  The slow build up means everyone is back. We then struggle to break teams down. The alternative is to sit deep rely on our defence to hold firm (don't make me laugh) and play on the break, but we are shit at that too.

[Micky]

36 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

We are normally shit after a break. Actually we are shit with or without a break. To be honest, we are shit. 

You could've made that post much, much shorter, only 3 words required...!

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Look at the way Palace went at it under Hodgson and compare it with the approach endorsed today by our clueless goon. Adkins in now or we'll struggle in the Championship.

[warsash saint]

The game today (& TBH most of the season) summed in in one brief moment ...... 5 mins to go, we are losing 1 nil, our season is ebbing away & JWP has the ball at his feet - what does he do?  Hit a penetrating ball though the WHU defence?? spray a ball out wide for a wide man to get in a cross??  NO, he just stands there, WALKS with the ball across the centre centre & passes another 10 yd pass side ways.

No urgency, no balls, no passion .... 2022 / 2023 season in a nutshell!!

Edited 2 April, 2023 by warsash saint

[Nordic Saint]

2 minutes ago, Kingsbridge Saint said:

Look at the way Palace went at it under Hodgson and compare it with the approach endorsed today by our clueless goon. Adkins in now or we'll struggle in the Championship.

We need an inspirational young manager, like Kompany, to win the Championship. Fonte would be our best bet, working alongside Selles, who isn't going to be sacked, whether we want it or not. As for Potter, he'll get better offers.

[CheshireSaint]

Anyone that picks Moi is a dick. Those people will point to the fact that successive Managers have done the same, should also reflect on those Managers have all been sacked, largely because they've been dicks. Selles could have been a breath of fresh air but nothing has really changed. it is madness that someone in authority cant see and have the wherewithal to insist anyone new actually try something new. Despairing.    

[verlaine1979]

2 hours ago, CylonKing said:

Didn't think we looked bad today, pretty good until the final 3rd. Some decent football, no pace or cutting edge though, same old, same old. Was that the first decent cross to Tall Paul we've put in since he joined...and he nearly scored from it? Think we're done for now, cannot see us getting enough points from what we have remaining.

Unfortunately, there's no such thing as "pretty good until the final 3rd".

[OttawaSaint]

7 minutes ago, CheshireSaint said:

Anyone that picks Moi is a dick. Those people will point to the fact that successive Managers have done the same, should also reflect on those Managers have all been sacked, largely because they've been dicks. Selles could have been a breath of fresh air but nothing has really changed. it is madness that someone in authority cant see and have the wherewithal to insist anyone new actually try something new. Despairing.    

Saints are like a kitchen that's fired successive chefs but then the new chef comes in doesn't sharpen the knives, use fresh ingredients or bother cleaning the oven and then wonders why the food is shit.

Get Ramsey in to "shut it down you clueless donkeys!".

[Badger]

23 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Saints are like a kitchen that's fired successive chefs but then the new chef comes in doesn't sharpen the knives, use fresh ingredients or bother cleaning the oven and then wonders why the food is shit.

Get Ramsey in to "shut it down you clueless donkeys!".

Might not be any worse than what we've experienced for the last four months, even though he died about 24 years ago.

[Tamesaint]

2 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Well I am now at the acceptance part of the five stages of grief at least.

I am at the anger stage. 

[Badger]

45 minutes ago, CheshireSaint said:

Anyone that picks Moi is a dick. Those people will point to the fact that successive Managers have done the same, should also reflect on those Managers have all been sacked, largely because they've been dicks. Selles could have been a breath of fresh air but nothing has really changed. it is madness that someone in authority cant see and have the wherewithal to insist anyone new actually try something new. Despairing.    

Mara was a questionable choice today, and the non-selection of Alcares who has looked one of more threatening players was ridiculous.

[Dellman]

29 minutes ago, Badger said:

Mara was a questionable choice today, and the non-selection of Alcares who has looked one of more threatening players was ridiculous.

Alcares is the only creative player we have. We are passive/negative. We lack any creativity---so Alcares is on the bench. Is this Alice inn Wonderland? 

[austsaint]

1 hour ago, CheshireSaint said:

Anyone that picks Moi is a dick. Those people will point to the fact that successive Managers have done the same, should also reflect on those Managers have all been sacked, largely because they've been dicks. Selles could have been a breath of fresh air but nothing has really changed. it is madness that someone in authority cant see and have the wherewithal to insist anyone new actually try something new. Despairing.    

That's my main reflection on the game.  Why did Selles start with Elyounoussi (again).    It set the tone for a cautious, mostly inept display with little threat to the West Ham goal in a game we had to win.   It left us with only Walker-Peters and Lavia to show/initiate any form of creativity, progressive run or passing.    Why didn't he start with the likes of Sulemana and Alcaraz to try and take the game to WH?   It looked like we were aiming for a 0-0.     Not good enough Mr Selles - you lacked the courage and insight to start a team capable of taking it to their opponent in such a crucial game.

 

 

[Fabrice29]

Continues to amaze me people still hope/expect anything different in games like this. These are not the games we are going to get points in and certainly not ones that will give performances to be hopeful about.

We are a team which until January was specifically recruited for a manager who prioritised off the ball qualities for 4 years. January also didn’t address that issue, instead focusing on physicality over creativity (Maybe Alcarez aside at a push).

We have been incapable of breaking down teams who set up to defend first all season (apart from set pieces) so just hope to god the majority of fixtures we have left will be up against teams who have to be proactive against us and offer us chances to play our best form of game. 

[Fabrice29]

13 minutes ago, austsaint said:

That's my main reflection on the game.  Why did Selles start with Elyounoussi (again).    It set the tone for a cautious, mostly inept display with little threat to the West Ham goal in a game we had to win.   It left us with only Walker-Peters and Lavia to show/initiate any form of creativity, progressive run or passing.    Why didn't he start with the likes of Sulemana and Alcaraz to try and take the game to WH?   It looked like we were aiming for a 0-0.     Not good enough Mr Selles - you lacked the courage and insight to start a team capable of taking it to their opponent in such a crucial game.

 

 

The reason for this is fairly obvious isn’t it? They’re new to the league and have shown themselves to tire very quickly when starting games (Wolves a massive example of this) so they have to be managed and their output has to be maximised in smaller sections of the game. Starting with them and not leading after an hour would leave us with needing to find goals at the end of the game with less productive players on the pitch. Think Selles has made the calculation he’d rather stay in the game and attack it at the end than be in a position of being incapable of attacking it when needing to. 
 

The starting 11 chat/importance is massively over done with fans. Especially when the squad really is much of a muchness in terms of actual output. Almost every single combination has played at some stage this season and guess what? They’ve all looked pretty clueless for most of it. There’s no magic formula so I’ve no issue with Selles trying to maximise our chances by breaking the game up into sections and targeting the parts of the game he thinks is best. 

[benjii]

7 hours ago, Mixedkebab said:

This lot make the 2005 helmets look dedicated and brave. 

With the exception of Lavia, who consistently does his job, and KWP and JWP who have enough credit in the bank,  I can’t stand the sight of any of them any more.

Having said that I thought JWP had a very bad day today with slow sideways/backwards play which he frustratingly does too often against these lower ranked sides. Whether it’s his fault or the manager’s/ team mates I just don’t know any more.

 

Yep.

The one time he played a ball into the box with Tall Paul on the pitch was the one time we looked like we might score a goal.

Edited 3 April, 2023 by benjii

[Roo1976]

10 hours ago, LaptopSaint said:

Meanwhile Nathan Redmond's had another stormer for Besiktas - 1 goal and three assists after they went down to ten men. 

But we've still got Adam Armstrong on the bench. 

 

like he was ever the answer........................................

[Saint Fan CaM]

I’ve waited to post my thoughts - needed some time to rake over this latest of disappointments. The first realisation is that actually I’m not surprised - these sorts of performances have become the norm at Saints for some years. The quality of the team and the standard of coaching has decreased so significantly and two games into Selles tenure, it was clear there would be no change to our fortunes. Yes we’ve improved a little since he took over, but I think that’s been more to do with fresh blood rather than new ideas.

I’m sorry to say I agree with those saying that JWP is not all that. He had the latest in a string of awful games where he capitulated midfield by passing backwards and sideways to attempt to maintain possession, falling into the trap of allowing West Ham to re-group and defend…something they do well. Our mode of attack is VERY slow and predictable most of the time, which inevitably leads to losing the ball with players committed high up the pitch. Sullemana is not the answer as he doesn’t know how to pass at the right time and ends up losing the ball. Alcarez is a good player, but given too little time to effect the game. Despite his lack of goals, Che is good at holding and laying off the ball - we missed his presence yesterday.

I think the most disturbing thing is that we were worse than a not very good West Ham. We’re worse than most other teams in the league and the primary reason is our inept midfield and attack. It’s why we’re going to be relegated and rightly so - there is not enough there to keep us up. The persistence of starting players that cannot deliver goals is a massive fail. I’m not sure if I can stomach watching this shambles of a team for the remainder of the season…there’s so little enjoyment now.

[Saint Billy]

Reflecting on the game (unfortunately), so we bring on a CF as tall as Albion Towers but continue to play it on the ground. He receives just one decent cross and hits the bar. 

We leave Alcaraz on the bench and start with a player who has failed all the time he has been at saints. Alcaraz is raw atm but with bags of potential and would of scored more than two in his brief spells given the opportunity. 

Yes the players have played a big part in our downfall but Ralph, nutter and Selles have all gone down this road of picking players with no ability, no form and of no help, and added to this, a reliance on a player who can hit a dead ball really well but offers little else. 

 

[saintoaks]

Let's face it, whoever is in charge we are crap, total clear out required, Get Potter (Not Harry) in the summer and have a good crack at getting back up next season.

[AlexLaw76]

5 minutes ago, saintoaks said:

Let's face it, whoever is in charge we are crap, total clear out required, Get Potter (Not Harry) in the summer and have a good crack at getting back up next season.

what planet are you on?

[saintoaks]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

what planet are you on?

Same one as you. Just my opinion.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, saintoaks said:

Same one as you. Just my opinion.

Potter aint coming here or any other championship club.  Neither is Brendan Rogers.

Given the 2 appointments made by Sports Republic, the idea of going out and getting Potter is mental, even if we stayed up

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

8 hours ago, Fabrice29 said:

The reason for this is fairly obvious isn’t it? They’re new to the league and have shown themselves to tire very quickly when starting games (Wolves a massive example of this) so they have to be managed and their output has to be maximised in smaller sections of the game. Starting with them and not leading after an hour would leave us with needing to find goals at the end of the game with less productive players on the pitch. Think Selles has made the calculation he’d rather stay in the game and attack it at the end than be in a position of being incapable of attacking it when needing to. 
 

The starting 11 chat/importance is massively over done with fans. Especially when the squad really is much of a muchness in terms of actual output. Almost every single combination has played at some stage this season and guess what? They’ve all looked pretty clueless for most of it. There’s no magic formula so I’ve no issue with Selles trying to maximise our chances by breaking the game up into sections and targeting the parts of the game he thinks is best. 

Understand the idea of managing the game in sections, but like having a flutter on the horses, the one that starts last never seems to get to the finishing post first. Surely you go at a team from the start and hope for an early goal. Also the mindset is different is you start closing down and forcing errors from the beginning. It all becomes much more positive. Look at how we played against Man U. And when players tire, you bring on others and hope you hold out. Setting up for a draw and hoping to sneak a goal does not work.

[James]

I went to the game with a mate yesterday in the home end - he is a WHU season ticket holder - he said we were the most negative team he's seen there this season and was surprised by the lack of intensity. The way we play is really strange to watch. My thoughts, in no particular order:

• There's no pace (until Kamaldeen came on) and barely any attacking intent. Continuing to pick players like Moi is killing us going forward.
• Teams can just sit off us as they are under no threat - no wonder our passing and possession stats look great, we are given all the time in the world to knock it round in non-threatening areas. We actually defend OK 90% of the time but make some criminal errors/lapses in concentration basically every game and when you can't score that's why you lose 1-0 8 times in a season. 
• Not really his fault but Bazunu was nowhere near the header - he looks like a child playing in goal when a shot is on target.
• Lavia had some nice touches but again nothing that got us going once we crossed half way. Conversely thought JWP was poor, lost the ball in some poor areas - looked off the pace. Armstrong was woeful.
• Our play looks very clumsy and haphazard, compared to West Ham who I thought were extremely poor, even when we come away with the ball its usually off the back of almost giving it away.
• Not the greatest footballer in the world but I'd start with Paul until the rest of the season and try and swing a few more crosses into him. We need goals and we won't score them with Walcott as a number 9 or even with Adams once he comes back. At the very least, the next 9 games might tell us if Onuachu can do a job for us in the Championship.

Tough day all round really - hard to see how we will survive from here - on current evidence I don't think Selles is the man to get us back up next year. We need a fresh start in almost all areas.

[Saint Fan CaM]

16 minutes ago, saintoaks said:

Let's face it, whoever is in charge we are crap, total clear out required, Get Potter (Not Harry) in the summer and have a good crack at getting back up next season.

The stats would tell Rasmus that Selles is doing a better job than Nutjob Jones and Ralph.  I think Selles has every chance of maintaining the role post summer.  And to be honest that wouldn't bother me - the most pressing job in the summer will be to shift the cause of our demise in the underperforming players, starting with JWP who has persistently provided little in midfield or leadership.

My list of exiting players this summer...

Caballero, DCC, Lyanco, JWP, Diallo, Ely-no-usey, Djenepo, S Armstrong, A Armstrong, Orsic.

Key players to keep hold of if possible...(the remainder I'm not too bothered about).

KWP, Perraud, ABK, Salisu, Lavia, Alcarez, Che

Replacements to be found in the B/youth team.

[Dellman]

11 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

The stats would tell Rasmus that Selles is doing a better job than Nutjob Jones and Ralph.  I think Selles has every chance of maintaining the role post summer.  And to be honest that wouldn't bother me - the most pressing job in the summer will be to shift the cause of our demise in the underperforming players, starting with JWP who has persistently provided little in midfield or leadership.

My list of exiting players this summer...

Caballero, DCC, Lyanco, JWP, Diallo, Ely-no-usey, Djenepo, S Armstrong, A Armstrong, Orsic.

Key players to keep hold of if possible. are the ones who wil..(the remainder I'm not too bothered about).

KWP, Perraud, ABK, Salisu, Lavia, Alcarez, Che

Replacements to be found in the B/youth team.

The ones you list as key players to hold are the ones other Clubs will want and the ones you list as 'to exit' are the ones who will stay until contract expires becos no other Club will top the wages we pay. That's the problem relegation brings. The power lies with the players

[Mr Nimbus]

21 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

The stats would tell Rasmus that Selles is doing a better job than Nutjob Jones and Ralph.  I think Selles has every chance of maintaining the role post summer.  And to be honest that wouldn't bother me - the most pressing job in the summer will be to shift the cause of our demise in the underperforming players, starting with JWP who has persistently provided little in midfield or leadership.

My list of exiting players this summer...

Caballero, DCC, Lyanco, JWP, Diallo, Ely-no-usey, Djenepo, S Armstrong, A Armstrong, Orsic.

Key players to keep hold of if possible...(the remainder I'm not too bothered about).

KWP, Perraud, ABK, Salisu, Lavia, Alcarez, Che

Replacements to be found in the B/youth team.

I would be staggered if Lavia was here next season. Regardless of which division we play.

[DT]

What a dismal, chicken shit, lily-livered performance from a bunch of mercenaries who care only about avoiding injury and their next contract. Lavia and perhaps Perraud aside, they were united in a lack of gumption, ability, desire, guts, determination and application. Hey, KWP, so you're gutted, yes? How about actually going forward with pace and desire? JWP, nice tippy tappies. Well done. Good luck at Spurs with your best fwend, or Newcastle, or wherever. Stu - used to love your drive and ability, but where's it gone? What the fuck was that loopy cross? Mara - how about you at least run around a bit? Walcott, face it, mate, it's over. You looked like a Dad who'd won a competition to play with the stars. I could go on. But added to that we have a manager who is seen by some as the new messiah as he wears a black rollneck but selects such negative, defensive dross when we have a must win. Ely? What does he have on you? Why not pick the pace we have and use it, rather than this tedious 'keep it tight and see where we are' tactic which is so clearly a Ralph legacy. Yet to see that you have anything like what it takes to be a decent manager. Should have listened to some of us and got Dyche in (who will beat Spurs tonight)

I'm so angry about yesterday, and so many other abject, no-guts performances from this bunch of unlikeable cretins. If we need a reset, it's to go and get experienced bruisers to get us out of the Championship, or we are in danger of facing another desperate struggle to stay up again next year.

PS anyone want my Palace tickets? (joking)