Saint86 Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, egg said: Edozie isn't Tella. Edozie failed last season. Yes? No... He joined aged 19 and showed a lot of promise for a player getting his first taste of first team top level football. Their ages / experience make a like for like comparison fairly irrelevant, but the facts are Edozie is younger than tella and got first team minutes in the prem last season.... Edited 7 July, 2023 by Saint86 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 2 minutes ago, Saint86 said: No... He joined aged 19 and showed a lot of promise for a player getting his first taste of first team top level football. Exactly. It depends what you mean by failure. I don't think he was ever signed last year to be a first team regular. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodymatt Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 I think Edozie will be a far more effective player in the championship. His dribbling is very impressive and he will have a bit more time to make the right decision in this league. Look how that extra bit of time and consistent playing time turned Tella into a £15-20m player. Far too soon to write him off IMO. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 8 minutes ago, Saint86 said: No... He joined aged 19 and showed a lot of promise for a player getting his first taste of first team top level football. Promise is not running around and failing to score or produce assists. His age is irrelevant - it's a results business. He failed to deliver, pure and simple. Sure, he may come good, but it's beyond belief that anyone could suggest that he was a success last season, and that's the only one we can judge him on. 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 2 minutes ago, egg said: Promise is not running around and failing to score or produce assists. His age is irrelevant - it's a results business. He failed to deliver, pure and simple. Sure, he may come good, but it's beyond belief that anyone could suggest that he was a success last season, and that's the only one we can judge him on. How many of our signings were a success? Lavia yes, Alvarez was, i'd say the rest were failures. A spend of £120 odd million produced one of the worst Saints teams i've ever seen. It's all very well and good having potential but you can only afford two or three of these, you cant have a team full of them especially in key positions. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Lion Tamer Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 Aribo and Sulemana were the failures. Edozie did what was expected of him 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Saint Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 8 minutes ago, egg said: Promise is not running around and failing to score or produce assists. His age is irrelevant - it's a results business. He failed to deliver, pure and simple. Sure, he may come good, but it's beyond belief that anyone could suggest that he was a success last season, and that's the only one we can judge him on. It depends if you're expecting him to be first team from the get-go. Otherwise age is the most relevant part for development of a player. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 2 hours ago, egg said: Nor did Larios or Edozie. Only 1 in 4 of our city recruits suceeded, and let's not overlook that if we had a decent keeper rather than Bazunu, we may have avoided relegation. It's madness that people are dressing up our signing kids from City policy as a success story because 1 player did well. As for Orsic, we wouldn't have had to take a punt in him if Edozie could actually do anything with the ball - Edozie was part of the problem which led to that problem!! I'm not dressing up our signings from City as a success. But it's a fact that they were more successful than are senior pro signings. None out of four of those worked out last year. That's a 0% success rate by my maths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 1 hour ago, Sarisbury Saint said: If Chez goes, then get a replacement in, but I think we are fine upfront with what we have. I'm going nowhere pal. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 7 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said: Aribo and Sulemana were the failures. Edozie did what was expected of him I'd say slightly exceeded my expectations, for the first half of the season he was the only one that looked dangerous going forward. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toussaint Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 26 minutes ago, The Cat said: Tella pretty much failed in the Premier League too though. Yes? My recollection of Tella was he looked quite promising, scored a goal, got a long term injury, came back into a struggling side and Ralph played him at centre forward where he didn't do verywell ( I was away for that game, so didn't witness it personally). That last appearance at CF after a LT injury seems to have tainted a lot of peoples views, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 Edozie is in the all fart no shit stage. Whether he can break the seal and start laying some cable remains to be seen. A lesser toilet might help encourage this. Fingers crossed for this year being the year of the Edozie dump. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toussaint Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 2 minutes ago, Chez said: I'm going nowhere pal. Its quite depressing when that realisation dawns on one! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 Chez is not for sale. In fact, he’s got to be testimonial worthy. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 17 minutes ago, egg said: Promise is not running around and failing to score or produce assists. His age is irrelevant - it's a results business. He failed to deliver, pure and simple. Sure, he may come good, but it's beyond belief that anyone could suggest that he was a success last season, and that's the only one we can judge him on. I agree, he was pretty poor. He at least tries to take players on, but he sees gaps that simply are not there. I'm not convinced he will `do it' this season either, although it will obviously be easier. He will need to improve if he is to be effective. Fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 6 minutes ago, Chez said: I'm going nowhere pal. You say that but you've got a 40% reduction in posts coming as a result of relegation. I reckon you'll sign for Forest and be replaced by some kid from the Man City Academy forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarisbury Saint Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 13 minutes ago, Chez said: I'm going nowhere pal. That’s half the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 50 minutes ago, egg said: Edozie isn't Tella. Edozie failed last season. Yes? For a 19 year old in his first year of professional football I thought he did okay. You’re right though, he’s not Tella who had made how many appearances in men’s football at 19? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 9 minutes ago, revolution saint said: You say that but you've got a 40% reduction in posts coming as a result of relegation. I reckon you'll sign for Forest and be replaced by some kid from the Man City Academy forum. I suspect the new kid will look exciting for a few games, before the forum realises there is no real substance to their posts. The forum will then welcome the return to previously unwanted posters to fill the void, but they will quickly display why they were discarded. We are all gradually working our way to the bottom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 31 minutes ago, Turkish said: How many of our signings were a success? Lavia yes, Alvarez was, i'd say the rest were failures. A spend of £120 odd million produced one of the worst Saints teams i've ever seen. It's all very well and good having potential but you can only afford two or three of these, you cant have a team full of them especially in key positions. Yep. Future potential is all well anf good, but results are based on a players ability to deliver at the time. Reading the stuff on here, and judging by the confused emoji's, it's almost like I'm the only one who can remember how shite most of our signings were! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 3 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: For a 19 year old in his first year of professional football I thought he did okay. You’re right though, he’s not Tella who had made how many appearances in men’s football at 19? What does the Tella question matter? Edozie played for us and failed to deliver. I couldn't care if he was 19 or 29 - he didn't deliver. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 Just now, egg said: What does the Tella question matter? Edozie played for us and failed to deliver. I couldn't care if he was 19 or 29 - he didn't deliver. Tella also played for us and failed to deliver, he still hasn’t incidentally, but his development and performances for Burnley show that judging 19 year olds as a failure seems a bit daft. I’m shocked it’s taken 3 posts of mine and others to realise that. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 11 hours ago, modern matron said: Looks decent and strong at youth level, so I'm a `yes', so long as the signing is accompanied by someone like Downes and perhaps some more talent and a bit of steel from Argentina. I think that is a market we should continue to explore. Adding an athlete with power in the middle to compliment these slightly lightweight young `ballers' like Edozie wouldn't go a miss too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: Tella also played for us and failed to deliver, he still hasn’t incidentally, but his development and performances for Burnley show that judging 19 year olds as a failure seems a bit daft. I’m shocked it’s taken 3 posts of mine and others to realise that. Comparing the progress of different players is daft for one simple reason. They are different players. I'm judging Edozie on what he did last season, not how he compares to another player! He did not get his head up, he did not see runs, he did not score, he did not assist. You and others may see that as a great contribution, but the one thing Selles got right was dropping him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 Great to see all these links coming in suddenly. Seems like we are getting to work now finally. I expect we will see a lot of movement next week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 https://theathletic.com/4673014/2023/07/07/shea-charles-manchester-city-southampton/ the Athletic says Shea Charles singing is close. £10.5m rising to £15m with the usual clauses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 2 minutes ago, Chez said: https://theathletic.com/4673014/2023/07/07/shea-charles-manchester-city-southampton/ the Athletic says Shea Charles singing is close. £10.5m rising to £15m with the usual clauses. Article also says we are interested in Carlos Borges. Possibility of Onuachu going back to Genk depending on whether monies can be agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabrice29 Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 12 minutes ago, egg said: Comparing the progress of different players is daft for one simple reason. They are different players. I'm judging Edozie on what he did last season, not how he compares to another player! He did not get his head up, he did not see runs, he did not score, he did not assist. You and others may see that as a great contribution, but the one thing Selles got right was dropping him. Different players have different development paths but this one specific 20 year old I’ve concluded is a failure and that’s final. You’re so close. Last season he did exactly what a kid should do. Try things, fail, try again and he got moved in and out of the team accordingly. Long term signings should be judged long term. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 Almost a team worth of links:Dragowski Abu Fonte Wood Manning Charles Choudhury Downes Grimes Borges Piroe 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 1 minute ago, Chez said: Article also says we are interested in Carlos Borges. Possibility of Onuachu going back to Genk depending on whether monies can be agreed. We've apparently been interested in Borges for quite a while and nearly signed him in January. He looks good in YouTube videos but another one that we'd have to hope could cope with the step up to mens football. I hope it doesn't mean Tella or Sulemana is off if we did sign him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 4 minutes ago, revolution saint said: We've apparently been interested in Borges for quite a while and nearly signed him in January. He looks good in YouTube videos but another one that we'd have to hope could cope with the step up to mens football. I hope it doesn't mean Tella or Sulemana is off if we did sign him. Is Borges more of a central striker or a winger/wide forward like Tella and Sulemana? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 Just now, Chez said: Is Borges more of a central striker or a winger/wide forward like Tella and Sulemana? Looked to be more of a left winger to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 8 minutes ago, Chez said: Almost a team worth of links:Dragowski Abu Fonte Wood Manning Charles Choudhury Downes Grimes Borges Piroe That line-up would likely beat last season's Premier League first 11 three times out of four. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 11 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said: Different players have different development paths but this one specific 20 year old I’ve concluded is a failure and that’s final. You’re so close. Last season he did exactly what a kid should do. Try things, fail, try again and he got moved in and out of the team accordingly. Long term signings should be judged long term. And that's the rub. He was signed, at cost, to improve the first team last season. However, you and others are judging him as if he was one of our promising kids breaking through and doing his best. Last season he didn't produce. Others see more promise than I do. I'll leave the discussion here. My view is that the policy of signing kids at great expense for the first team isn't the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disconnect Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 1 hour ago, egg said: Promise is not running around and failing to score or produce assists. His age is irrelevant - it's a results business. He failed to deliver, pure and simple. Sure, he may come good, but it's beyond belief that anyone could suggest that he was a success last season, and that's the only one we can judge him on. To be fair, he did run rings around people and then play it to others who did their very best to hit anything but the back of the net 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 3 hours ago, egg said: It may not have been enough, but nobody is convincing me that Bazunu didn't cost us points. As did many of the players and managers for that matter. We were appalling last season from keeper to striker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 16 minutes ago, egg said: And that's the rub. He was signed, at cost, to improve the first team last season. However, you and others are judging him as if he was one of our promising kids breaking through and doing his best. Last season he didn't produce. Others see more promise than I do. I'll leave the discussion here. My view is that the policy of signing kids at great expense for the first team isn't the way to go. It's not great expense though. Buying a more experienced version of some of these players would be an obscene cost that we couldn't afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northam soul Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 1 hour ago, The Cat said: I once saw Fonte driving like a prick on the M27 near Winchester so, because of that, I don't want him back. As the M27 doesn’t go anywhere near Winchester that’s absolutely bollocks 👍 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 22 minutes ago, egg said: My view is that the policy of signing kids at great expense for the first team isn't the way to go. That's fair enough. Winks was available for £10m. I suspect his wages are not cheap, but putting that to one side, would you have gone Winks instead of Charles, also about £10m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 As we are starting to see a few more links about incoming players, perhaps a few more player departures are imminent? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodymatt Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said: I think I’ve read somewhere that he would want to go back to Sunderland if it was another Championship loan. Wouldn’t be surprised if we are interested though, looks a talent and proved he can be a big player in the championship last season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 33 minutes ago, northam soul said: As the M27 doesn’t go anywhere near Winchester that’s absolutely bollocks 👍 to be fair, off road is pretty prickish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 15 minutes ago, goodymatt said: I think I’ve read somewhere that he would want to go back to Sunderland if it was another Championship loan. Wouldn’t be surprised if we are interested though, looks a talent and proved he can be a big player in the championship last season. Obsessed with Diallos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 Are people forgetting quite how bad Fonte was for West Ham? I doubt he’s got the physicality or pace to play for a top championship side at nearly 40. Head definitely needs to over rule heart with this one imo. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 27 minutes ago, Chez said: That's fair enough. Winks was available for £10m. I suspect his wages are not cheap, but putting that to one side, would you have gone Winks instead of Charles, also about £10m? Yes. If we want first team now, then Winks. If we had the cash for both and used Charles as and when, and let him develop without the need to deliver that was thrown onto Baz and Edozie, then great. I have a feeling that we'll get the balance right this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 5 minutes ago, egg said: Yes. If we want first team now, then Winks. If we had the cash for both and used Charles as and when, and let him develop without the need to deliver that was thrown onto Baz and Edozie, then great. I have a feeling that we'll get the balance right this year. So the issue wasn't with Edozie last year then, it was with the failure of our more experienced players to deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said: So the issue wasn't with Edozie last year then, it was with the failure of our more experienced players to deliver. we had no need to bring in Edozie (or Larios), if we were not going to spend on a proper keeper and/or striker, whilst letting a top pro like Romeu walk out easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said: we had no need to bring in Edozie (or Larios), if we were not going to spend on a proper keeper and/or striker, whilst letting a top pro like Romeu walk out easily Yes but it may not have been a binary choice between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexLaw76 Posted 7 July, 2023 Share Posted 7 July, 2023 Just now, hypochondriac said: Yes but it may not have been a binary choice between the two. It may not, but when we were not seemingly prepared to spend more on a striker, yet sign Edozie and Larios....you have to wonder. The Bazunu signing was just f-ing ridiculous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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