Summer Transfer Window 2023

[CSA96]

MLG, is that your burner?

 

[hypochondriac]

23 minutes ago, Sussex_saint said:

Completely agree with what you are saying, especially about Edozie. He had moments of class and if we keep hold of him then by next year could make a decent profit. On a side note, I find It bizarre that we barely played him in the second half of the season. This guy was an absolute foul magnet, and considering we have/had the best free kick taker in the league, God knows why we didn't use this. 

I agree. He could end up being a failure here but that will at least in part be our fault and how we handled him last year. Even if he is, it doesn't make the strategy we are on bad. We only need one Lavia or Bazunu and it becomes well worth it and the strategy is even better in the championship where the players don't have to be as good so quickly. 

[skintsaint]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

only 1 in 4 of our city kids cut the mustard. 

so far.

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

I haven't said anything about McCarthy. I've said Bazunu cost us points, and possibly relegation. We needed a decent keeper, not Bazunu or McCarthy. 

Let's keep on topic - only 1 in 4 of our city kids cut the mustard. 

In the prem in their debut seasons I agree. We are now in the championship and some of them have had ajpther season of experience and are a year older. 

[Barsiem]

20 minutes ago, egg said:

Nor did Larios or Edozie. Only 1 in 4 of our city recruits suceeded, and let's not overlook that if we had a decent keeper rather than Bazunu, we may have avoided relegation.

It's madness that people are dressing up our signing kids from City policy as a success story because 1 player did well. As for Orsic, we wouldn't have had to take a punt in him if Edozie could actually do anything with the ball - Edozie was part of the problem which led to that problem!! 

To look at it another way, the success of one of those imports has meant we basically will get our money back for all 4 by selling that one.  Plus the others may still come good.  We do need a mix of experience and youth certainly, but I'm not against buying young players from other academy's.

I don't agree Bazunu was the reason we got relegated.  We finished on 25 points!  That's not all down to one position.  bazunu was part of the problem certainly, but arguably the biggest was the fact we didn't have a decent manager at any point during the season

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Barsiem said:

To look at it another way, the success of one of those imports has meant we basically will get our money back for all 4 by selling that one.  Plus the others may still come good.  We do need a mix of experience and youth certainly, but I'm not against buying young players from other academy's.

I don't agree Bazunu was the reason we got relegated.  We finished on 25 points!  That's not all down to one position.  bazunu was part of the problem certainly, but arguably the biggest was the fact we didn't have a decent manager at any point during the season

That is one way of looking at being successful as a football team 🤔

[egg]

4 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

so far.

 

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

In the prem in their debut seasons I agree. We are now in the championship and some of them have had ajpther season of experience and are a year older. 

Of course they may develop, but they may not. Thus far we can only judge them on what they've shown thus far. They haven't shown enough. 

[DT]

Loving the noises coming out of the club today. Fonte with a view to playing and presumably managing one day, Jonny Evans still absolute class, Shea looking like a profit on Lavia. Someone knows what they're doing and I hope it is the new Wilcox influence, and maybe even Martin too.

[egg]

3 minutes ago, Barsiem said:

To look at it another way, the success of one of those imports has meant we basically will get our money back for all 4 by selling that one.  Plus the others may still come good.  We do need a mix of experience and youth certainly, but I'm not against buying young players from other academy's.

I don't agree Bazunu was the reason we got relegated.  We finished on 25 points!  That's not all down to one position.  bazunu was part of the problem certainly, but arguably the biggest was the fact we didn't have a decent manager at any point during the season

Perverse perspective imo. 3 failures out of 4 does not make a success story on any assessment. 

As for Baz/relegation, I'm in no doubt that we had been in touch with safety the players would have had hope and we'd have done better. Baz was a massive factor in why we fell behind the pack, and there was no coming back from that imo. 

[Barsiem]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Perverse perspective imo. 3 failures out of 4 does not make a success story on any assessment. 

As for Baz/relegation, I'm in no doubt that we had been in touch with safety the players would have had hope and we'd have done better. Baz was a massive factor in why we fell behind the pack, and there was no coming back from that imo. 

I didn't say it was a success.... We got relegated so it clearly wasn't.  But in terms of outlay on players from big academy's they have paid for themselves.  Compare that to experienced players we bought like Orsic & Onuachu.

And I still disagree re Bazunu.  It's all cumulative.  If we had a better manager we'd have more points.  If we had a proper striker we'd have more points.  If we had better centre backs we'd have more points.  If we had decent wingers we'd have more points.  We failed all over the pitch and on the bench last season, and that's not down to one person alone.  For me, the single biggest failing was the person in charge. 

A better GK would certainly have helped, but a better manager would have helped even more.  And a better striker would have helped more than a better GK as well

[SNSUN]

1 hour ago, goodymatt said:

Surely there is not a scenario where we sell Prowsey for £20-25m?

£40 million sounds about right to me, probably could have got closer to £50-60 million last summer. He's a player in his prime that never misses a game, has a good engine, is a good passer of the ball and in the right team will get assists and goals. If other clubs think they can get him for £20-£25 million then they're dreaming - clearly they think relegation means we have to sell our players on the cheap when we actually have a good pot of money and can play hardball, as we are doing with Tino and Lavia. I can see JWP going for £35million, possibly even as low as £30 million with add ons but not £20-25 million.

[JRM]

15 minutes ago, DT said:

Loving the noises coming out of the club today. Fonte with a view to playing and presumably managing one day, Jonny Evans still absolute class, Shea looking like a profit on Lavia. Someone knows what they're doing and I hope it is the new Wilcox influence, and maybe even Martin too.

We're on course for another 8/10 Window 

[Osvaldorama]

59 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

 

I still to this day don’t understand why we let him go in the first place. 

The amount of money the club has wasted over the years on absolute fucking dross, and they weren’t willing to negotiate with a club legend & leader.
 

Sums up exactly why we got relegated. Club thinks they are too smart and don’t understand the game of football at all. His experience and leadership is irreplaceable. 

Edited 7 July, 2023 by Osvaldorama

[skintsaint]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

Perverse perspective imo. 3 failures out of 4 does not make a success story on any assessment. 

Well a lot of you are in for a shock if you want young guys to suddenly be world beaters after one season of top senior football. Some will take time.

[Chewy]

2 minutes ago, JRM said:

We're on course for another 8/10 Window 

With the 2 points knocked off for not signing a decent striker. The striker we’ve totally needed to prioritise for 5 transfer windows.

[beatlesaint]

6 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

I still to this day don’t understand why we let him go in the first place. 
 

Claude Puel.

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Barsiem said:

I didn't say it was a success.... We got relegated so it clearly wasn't.  But in terms of outlay on players from big academy's they have paid for themselves.  Compare that to experienced players we bought like Orsic & Onuachu.

And I still disagree re Bazunu.  It's all cumulative.  If we had a better manager we'd have more points.  If we had a proper striker we'd have more points.  If we had better centre backs we'd have more points.  If we had decent wingers we'd have more points.  We failed all over the pitch and on the bench last season, and that's not down to one person alone.  For me, the single biggest failing was the person in charge. 

A better GK would certainly have helped, but a better manager would have helped even more.  And a better striker would have helped more than a better GK as well

We'll agree to differ on all of that! We only needed Orsic because Edozie didn't deliver. Sure, he didn't work out either, but had Edozie been able to score or assist, we wouldn't have needed another left winger. I'm staggered there's a defence being made of Baz - he frightened the defence as much as they frightened him, but a decent keeper would have saved shots, thus points, and possibly helped save our season.

This argument that one success from the city signings made it work out financially is a really bad argument though. Each player has to be assessed on his merits and performances. Only 1 in 4 from that group was a success. That's indisputable. 

[niceandfriendly]

7 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Claude Puel.

Leave Euro’s winner Fonte out was a world class decision if ever I’ve seen one. 

[Lighthouse]

For all his faults, I can’t see it being Puel who chose to sell Fonte. That one was squarely on Reed and Fonte himself, who wanted to leave.

[Give it to Ron]

Emotions aside are we really saying Fonte at 39 is a realistic signing? Are wages not better spent on a striker or keeper?

Some on here were moaning about Coady lack of pace!

Its like an old girlfriend never go back never same second time.

Edited 7 July, 2023 by Give it to Ron
Wrong age

[goodymatt]

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

For all his faults, I can’t see it being Puel who chose to sell Fonte. That one was squarely on Reed and Fonte himself, who wanted to leave.

Fonte spoke out years later on a podcast, saying his request was to have the 2nd highest salary at the club. I’m guessing at the time that might have been £80k/week, maybe less? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but maybe we should have paid it and kept our leader. Guess we will never know.

[goodymatt]

Just now, Give it to Ron said:

Emotions aside are we really saying Fonte at 37 is a realistic signing? Are wages not better spent on a striker or keeper?

Some on here were moaning about Coady lack of pace!

Its like an old girlfriend never go back never same second time.

He’s actually 39, 40 in December!

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Nor did Larios or Edozie. Only 1 in 4 of our city recruits suceeded, and let's not overlook that if we had a decent keeper rather than Bazunu, we may have avoided relegation.

It's madness that people are dressing up our signing kids from City policy as a success story because 1 player did well. As for Orsic, we wouldn't have had to take a punt in him if Edozie could actually do anything with the ball - Edozie was part of the problem which led to that problem!! 

Just a reminder that Edozie is 4 years younger than Tella and you’re out here saying he’s a failure.

[Give it to Ron]

Just now, goodymatt said:

He’s actually 39, 40 in December!

Oops will amend that then!

[Saint Fan CaM]

Clearly Lavia is a talent and no mistake and the other City youngsters are good players too, but let’s not also forget that these players were part of a squad that couldn’t prevent relegation. I’m not saying Lavia was the cause, but he was the only youngster who had the quality to help prevent relegation…we needed more players (youngsters or otherwise) of that quality, which we failed to sign.

That’s the big learning point from the last three years and a downside to the model…it’s very easy to progressively dilute the squad to an extent that it fails spectacularly and last season was not the first time…Lowe did it too. We’ll probably be OK in the Championship, but unless the club IMPROVES on last seasons overall squad quality we will not match the promotion hopefuls this season.

Edited 7 July, 2023 by Saint Fan CaM

[beatlesaint]

7 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

For all his faults, I can’t see it being Puel who chose to sell Fonte. That one was squarely on Reed and Fonte himself, who wanted to leave.

Puel wouldnt play him, it was totally on him. Dont you remember he left him out of European games that season and it all came to a head, in public at least, with a very frank discussion on the pitch at Dean Court when he left him out against the Cherry pips. I'm not sure he played for us after that (but i may be remembering that bit wrongly)

[Rebel]

Shea Charles looks like a great signing.....

to add some depth to central midfield and provide some cover and competition at defensive midfield....

but we still need some experience and leadership in the middle of the pitch. I am taking it as done that Lavia and Ward-Prowse will be leaving but even if they were both staying we still need more experience on the pitch- and dare I say it some leadership.  If we add Grimes and Downes as well I would be very very happy.

if we are raiding city's academy again can we come back with Calum Doyle as well please - left footed centreback who excelled in the Championship at Coventry last season. 

If we can keep Stephens and Bednarek for their experience and add some youth and potential like Doyle and Nathan Woods at the back we should be more than OK at the back next season.

What I don't want to see is a back 4 with 3 or 4 players under 23 - or a team with 50% of more of the players under 23.  To get the best out of young players you need a solid frame or spine of the team to hang them on. 

Edited 7 July, 2023 by Rebel

[Miltonaggro]

47 minutes ago, JRM said:

We're on course for another 8/10 Window 

At least that. Perhaps an ‘insane’ signing or two. 

[VectisSaint]

9 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Puel wouldnt play him, it was totally on him. Dont you remember he left him out of European games that season and it all came to a head, in public at least, with a very frank discussion on the pitch at Dean Court when he left him out against the Cherry pips. I'm not sure he played for us after that (but i may be remembering that bit wrongly)

It was down to Les and his deal with VvD to make him skipper and build the team around him. VvD was made skipper for the European games to ease him in. Don't think Puel had much say, it was Uncle Les who fucked everything up because he believed that VvD would stay, rather naive really. To be honet i wasn't Fonte's biggest fan, there is some rose tinted spectacle wearing going on. He was prone to catastrophic errors (like most of our CBs), but hey maybe he can take over from Ollie Lancashire.

[Sarisbury Saint]

42 minutes ago, Chewy said:

With the 2 points knocked off for not signing a decent striker. The striker we’ve totally needed to prioritise for 5 transfer windows.

I’d like to see what Tella and Ballard can do. If Chez goes, then get a replacement in, but I think we are fine upfront with what we have.

[east-stand-nic]

2 hours ago, goodymatt said:

Surely there is not a scenario where we sell Prowsey for £20-25m?

I suspect it will be 25-30m or he stays. He is not worth more than that as shown by the offers and lack of serious interest from larger clubs than Fulham. I think ti would actually be good for him to stay as he will be a top notch player in the championship, and let's be honest, he isn't in Southgates plans so he has little to lose.

[revolution saint]

17 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Emotions aside are we really saying Fonte at 39 is a realistic signing? Are wages not better spent on a striker or keeper?

Some on here were moaning about Coady lack of pace!

Its like an old girlfriend never go back never same second time.

A lot of people want him back for emotional reasons rather than anything else.  Personally I'd rather we didn't.  Good player in his day and all that but there must be better options out there.  

[Turkish]

15 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Fonte spoke out years later on a podcast, saying his request was to have the 2nd highest salary at the club. I’m guessing at the time that might have been £80k/week, maybe less? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but maybe we should have paid it and kept our leader. Guess we will never know.

give we spunked the best part of £70m on Hoedt, Vestergaard, Bednarek, Salisu, Lyanco, Bella-Kotchap and Caleta-Carr since he left plus god knows how much in wages it would have been a bargain. It's lot of money a week, but given what we've wasted then it made sense. He was out captain, leader i would say he isn't in our top 3 centre backs since we came back in the premier league but what he gave us was the kind of experience and leadership you need. 

[Miltonaggro]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

give we spunked the best part of £70m on Hoedt, Vestergaard, Bednarek, Salisu, Lyanco, Bella-Kotchap and Caleta-Carr since he left plus god knows how much in wages it would have been a bargain. It's lot of money a week, but given what we've wasted then it made sense. He was out captain, leader i would say he isn't in our top 3 centre backs since we came back in the premier league but what he gave us was the kind of experience and leadership you need. 

Yep, think even now he’d be an asset in terms of the new look coaching set up, perhaps registered as a player if that would be feasible. A talisman for fans and young first team could be handy this season. 

[HarvSFC]

The narrative regarding Fonte has returned!

In August 2014, Fonte signed a new three year contract here. The following year, he left the agent who he been with his entire career for Jorge Mendes. An interesting move by someone who was one year into their new contract. All while we were under Koeman and flying by our own standards.

A year later, he won the Euros, we were managed by Puel and the media were flirting him and Manchester United for the first half of the season. Admittedly, leaving him out of the Europa League matches was a crap move, but again it was hinted that it was to not cup tie him at the time.

Mendes possibly thought he could get Fonte a big final day, which we weren't willing to accomodate, so he left us for a then sideways move to West Ham, not Manchester United which again, we know was down to money. Mendes succeeded.

This again was supported by his move to the money league, China.

Lille's been good for him and he's built his reputation back up, but we're probably his best offer now and now he's wanting to come back.

Fonte going to West Ham certainly dampened my opinion of him, it wasn't the same as Lambert to Liverpool and yeah maybe Reed and Puel weren't great in the final stages either, but a player doesn't switch to a "super agent" with a reputation for big money deals if they are content with their current position. 

I've also been severely burnt by Walcott's return. Walcott was a shadow of the Arsenal/Southampton player when he returned and was even crap last season, but looked a bit better in a sea of shite with Reading now being his best offer.

[LuckyNumber7]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Nor did Larios or Edozie. Only 1 in 4 of our city recruits suceeded, and let's not overlook that if we had a decent keeper rather than Bazunu, we may have avoided relegation.

It's madness that people are dressing up our signing kids from City policy as a success story because 1 player did well. As for Orsic, we wouldn't have had to take a punt in him if Edozie could actually do anything with the ball - Edozie was part of the problem which led to that problem!! 

Think you're being very harsh there. I believe when they signed they were 18 and 19 respectively?

Don't think Larios was half as bad as people made out, he just looked to lightweight which is hardly surprising at that age. He wasn't ready to be thrown in at the deep end like that. Edozie showed a lot of promise at times but lacks end product. That is something that can be worked on and hopefully will improve with experience. IMO he could shine in the Championship. To write them both off as failures already seems very premature.

Baz was the biggest disappointment. Had plenty of game time time and at no point looked good enough. Again he is still young so we have to hope he will improve.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said:

McCarthy was equally as terrible 

As bad as Baz was I stand by the fact that everyone infront of him was so bad it exaggerated his ‘issues’ ten fold, I don’t think he is anywhere near as bad a keeper as is so often made out on here

I accept he had a poor defence in front of him. However, this does not excuse the fact that he let in far too many shots that should have been routine saves for even a half decent keeper. On top of that he pulled off very few worldy saves which prevented almost certain goals. Those two things together are not a great combination for a goalkeeper although I accept that, given time, he may improve. Right now I don't have faith in him as our first choice and the jury is still out on Bazball.

Edited 7 July, 2023 by saintant

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

give we spunked the best part of £70m on Hoedt, Vestergaard, Bednarek, Salisu, Lyanco, Bella-Kotchap and Caleta-Carr since he left plus god knows how much in wages it would have been a bargain. It's lot of money a week, but given what we've wasted then it made sense. He was out captain, leader i would say he isn't in our top 3 centre backs since we came back in the premier league but what he gave us was the kind of experience and leadership you need. 

Everyone who's played along side him has improved - that's no coincidence. 

He's a proper leader and in tat respect we've not managed to replace him. The exact sort of player you need for a gruling championship season. 

I'd snap his hand off to have him back. I don't think he'd be a regular starter, but would be invaluable to have around the club. 

[Lighthouse]

22 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Puel wouldnt play him, it was totally on him. Dont you remember he left him out of European games that season and it all came to a head, in public at least, with a very frank discussion on the pitch at Dean Court when he left him out against the Cherry pips. I'm not sure he played for us after that (but i may be remembering that bit wrongly)

But Puel did play him, he pretty much started every league game, except for a couple over the congested Christmas period when you tend to get three games in a week. As far as I'm aware Fonte has never made any noises since about not being played enough. I might have missed something but I can't see anyone switching clubs over half a dozen Europa League games.

23 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

Fonte spoke out years later on a podcast, saying his request was to have the 2nd highest salary at the club. I’m guessing at the time that might have been £80k/week, maybe less? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but maybe we should have paid it and kept our leader. Guess we will never know.

No, with hindsight we shouldn't have bought in Wesley Hoedt as a replacement. For a club our size, giving a multiple year deal to a 33 year year old is not remotely sensible. We could have been relegated and stuck with a player nobody wanted to buy on enormous wages, like Leicester are with Vardy. Nobody ever says we shouldn't have sold Lovren, even though he was a better defender IMO, because we bought in Toby and then Virgil, that's the only hindsight here.

[hypochondriac]

17 minutes ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

I’d like to see what Tella and Ballard can do. If Chez goes, then get a replacement in, but I think we are fine upfront with what we have.

I couldn't disagree more. We badly need a striker. 

[Dman]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

I couldn't disagree more. We badly need a striker. 

Agree. Throwing Ballard in as our main striker would not only be reckless and stupid, but it would also be incredibly damaging for him as well. 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

Agree. Throwing Ballard in as our main striker would not only be reckless and stupid, but it would also be incredibly damaging for him as well. 

it's the sort of thing we're likely to do though.

[Dman]

5 minutes ago, Turkish said:

it's the sort of thing we're likely to do though.

bring back "we don't buy success, we breed it"

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

I still to this day don’t understand why we let him go in the first place. 

The amount of money the club has wasted over the years on absolute fucking dross, and they weren’t willing to negotiate with a club legend & leader.
 

Sums up exactly why we got relegated. Club thinks they are too smart and don’t understand the game of football at all. His experience and leadership is irreplaceable. 

My understanding was that, as with a few others, he fell out with Les Reed. Koeman was similar. Once they became too important (and perhaps realised it), they tended to get shoved out the door one way or another by Les and co. Usually with the SFC PR machine of that time doing a number of them as well.

[The Cat]

I once saw Fonte driving like a prick on the M27 near Winchester so, because of that, I don't want him back.

[The Cat]

Surprised someone hasn't pinned the blame on him leaving before on Ankersen or Sports Republic yet. 

[ErwinK1961]

32 minutes ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

I’d like to see what Tella and Ballard can do. If Chez goes, then get a replacement in, but I think we are fine upfront with what we have.

Hope not, they’re a decent poster on here.

[egg]

47 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Just a reminder that Edozie is 4 years younger than Tella and you’re out here saying he’s a failure.

Edozie isn't Tella. Edozie failed last season. Yes?

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, egg said:

We'll agree to differ on all of that! We only needed Orsic because Edozie didn't deliver. Sure, he didn't work out either, but had Edozie been able to score or assist, we wouldn't have needed another left winger. I'm staggered there's a defence being made of Baz - he frightened the defence as much as they frightened him, but a decent keeper would have saved shots, thus points, and possibly helped save our season.

This argument that one success from the city signings made it work out financially is a really bad argument though. Each player has to be assessed on his merits and performances. Only 1 in 4 from that group was a success. That's indisputable. 

The way i see it - Its very clear that Lavia is a wc central mid in the making, and the profit on him will at least pay for all the others. All of them were players for the future, and i've seen enough from Bazunu and Edozie to be confident they can do a good job for us this season in the champ, and if given that chance, they'll develop in ability, confidence, and stature. Players like Morgan, Lallana and co didn't walk into the first team at age 19/20 and become immediate stars - they grew into that. If we sign these kind of players over consecutive windows, then we will have a conveyor belt of talent developing and coming through - it takes time and doesn't deliver immediate results - but long term it should prove successful. If we pick up Tinos, Alcarazs and Lavias in amongst that and turn a profit / pay for the others then it pays for itself.

We didn't get relegated because of the youngsters. Our best players last season came from the u21 bracket -  with the exception of JWP. We got relegated because we failed spectacularly to buy good attackers until too late in the season - and even then we wasted a small fortune on fees and wages for players like Onuachu, orsic, and Aribo. Which left us with Theo and Ely getting too many minutes than is reasonable for a serious prem team.

Edited 7 July, 2023 by Saint86

[The Cat]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

Edozie isn't Tella. Edozie failed last season. Yes?

Tella pretty much failed in the Premier League too though. Yes?