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Summer Transfer Window 2023

FarehamSaintJames

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John B

John B

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Shot stopping is shot stopping at any level, he could barely save anything that was on target last season. 

No it is not

 

In most cases you have a fraction of second more in the Championship to react to everything

 

The best sportsmen are the ones who seem to have time to spare to react to the ball .

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Dman said:

Would be a big fan of this. Downes is a fantastic player. Good enough for the PL imo. 

Likewise. Wanted us to sign him last summer, but I just find it hard to believe they will not give him a second season to try and step up. He finished the season pretty well and most West Ham fans seem to rate him. I guess Moyes is the only one that matters.

Another option for us might be Lewis Cook. I think he's an underrated holding midfielder. He lost his place in the Bournemouth side towards the back end of last season after an injury. Not sure they would allow him to leave, as he played quite a lot of games, but he'd be ideal alongside Downes should we lose our CM pairing. 

If we miss out on Manning, I still think Vinegre would be ideal for us at left back and Omar Richards from Forrest might be an option having missed all of last season due to injury.

All of these feel a bit of a stretch if I am honest. One that wouldn't be a stretch is Aaron Collins. He impressed me greatly when I saw him against the Skates. Lovely left foot, some nice skills on the ball and he can finish too.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Believable but swap deals barely ever happen

"Too many moving parts" is what they (agents etc.) say about that kind of deal. You never know though. 

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Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, HarvSFC said:

Fuck sake.

Although, Napoli are chucking in £35m bids for Max Kilman, so...

you'd imagine that Napoli is a bit of a iconic place for most Argies given how Diego is an icon there

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Appy

Appy

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Believable but swap deals barely ever happen

They happen but usually go down as separate deals for financial reasons. 
 

Like Maddison and Winks

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notnowcato

notnowcato

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Don't get your point. 

Bazunu isn't suddenly going to be able to save shots that he couldn't save last season just because we're in a league below. Sure he might be tested less often because of the standard of opposition, but we won't keep enough clean sheets with him in goal to mount a promotion challenge. 

If you're trying to make some point about how Armstrong and Adams should have been banging them in at Prem level because they did at Championship if we follow my logic, it's not in any way comparable. In the championship strikers faced a much worse standard of defender (and keeper). It was me that posted the infamous "Adams seemed to scuff most of his finishes" line when we signed him, for which I was ridiculed for ages. But go back and watch his highlights - most of his goals he had the time and space that he never got in the Prem, and the finishes he made would have been saved by a half decent keeper. 

Bazunu failed to stop shots in the Prem that were right next to him or on some occasions straight at him. He'll still face those kinds of shots in the championship. 

Put it this way - Bazunu will be conceding the type of goals that Adams was banging in in the championship which he never got the time or space to score in the Prem. 

If shot stopping is shot stopping no matter the league, you have to wonder why on earth he was on City's books, how he progressed since a youngster, why he had a stellar league 1 season when so inexperienced. 

The reasons for Bazunu's performances last season is clearly more colourful than the black and white observation you make.  On many points he wasn't ready for the EPL, simple as, I don't think that's entirely his fault.   

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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, wild-saint said:

This @exwestham guy is one of the only ITK at west Ham. He comes out with all sorts of info that is on the money. 

He might know that West Ham are interested and that Downes is available. But lets be fair, that isn't really saying much - the whole world knows west ham want central midfielders right now, and equally JWP is a very saleable asset. Reality is that no one knows our stance on JWP or indeed JWP's stance (other than slapping a large price tag on him and putting him front and centre of media campaigns) - and tellingly that rumour doesn't give any info on that which is fair enough.

As others have also said, we need to rebalance our squad costs via saving money on wages and through player trading. Within that we have assets that are clearly higher value potential sales - JWP is one. But if we manage to shift the bloat / dead weight elsewhere in the squad, i think it is unlikely we'll then need to shift both JWP and Lavia. We've already shift Orsic, Ely, and theo - and we currently have 6 CB's of which we are likely to shift 4. Its also very unlikely that we end the window with KWP and Adams imo. Tall Paul as well seems like someone destined to leave our wage bill this summer.

Also, selling both JWP and Lavia in no way sorts out our issues in defence and in attack, and therefore i think its unlikely to be a priority for us. Given all that, i remain firmly of the view that its unlikely JWP is leaving.

Also on Downes, it worries me slightly that he is consistently linked with a move away from West Ham as he should be targeting a lot of minutes there this season. They're a bottom half club with a need for good central mids. If West Ham don't think he's a development target, should we be considering losing our captain and best player to land him?

Edited by Saint86
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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Saint86 said:

Also on Downes, it worries me slightly that he is consistently linked with a move away from West Ham as he should be targeting a lot of minutes there this season. They're a bottom half club with a need for good central mids. If West Ham don't think he's a development target, should we?

He wouldn't be a development prospect for us, he'd be a `first choice good enough to get us promoted' player.

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, Chez said:

I still think Vinegre would be ideal for us at left back and Omar Richards from Forrest might be an option having missed all of last season due to injury.

 

Just seen that Vinegre is linked to Hull. Would be a good signing for them. I think City will be decent this year. 

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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Chez said:

He wouldn't be a development prospect for us, he'd be a `first choice good enough to get us promoted' player.

And to sign him we'd presumably lose lavia and JWP, whilst still needing to shift 4 expensive wage CB's and 2 attackers. So the point is, would you sell our best player (who will likely play every minute this season and score plenty of goals) for a reduced amount to west ham, to then sign a player they consider to have a lower ceiling, and which will ultimately weaken our midfield significantly over the course of a season - given that we will almost certainly sell lavia and likely don't need to sell them both? Its a bad trade. Think its more likely we shift players to reduce the wage bill / raise funds, then use some city style loans and players like smallbone / tella (and to a lesser extent the likes of Doyle/ballard) to fill out the squad. For example the links to the city kid as a lavia replacement. 

More than plausible we have a midfield 5 of JWP, Smallbone, Carlos, Sulemana, and Tella this year 🤷‍♂️. You'd still have the likes of Diallo, Edozie, Doyle around that. Would be a very tidy midfield for a possession focussed championship team - Without any signings.

Mara, AA and Ballard up top to lead the line and run off the ball, find space etc. Tino/Bree/Larios and Perraud/Manning? as the full/wing backs. Baz in goal. And then you sort out 2 starting CB's from Lyanco, Janny B, ABK, Salisu (leaving), DCC, and Stephens. Isn't Macca now into his last year? Che, Tall Paul etc out the door with Lavia and 4CB's🤷‍♂️. The add some loanees.
 

Edited by Saint86
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DT

DT

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, wild-saint said:

This @exwestham guy is one of the only ITK at west Ham. He comes out with all sorts of info that is on the money. 

On the face of it, sensible. Unless it goes down to something ludicrous like £10m plus Downes. Guess that would be a downes payment... 😉 

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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

And to sign him we'd presumably lose lavia and JWP, whilst still needing to shift 4 expensive CB's and 2 attackers. So the point is, would you sell our best player (who will likely play every minute this season and score plenty of goals) for a reduced amount to west ham, to then sign a player they consider to have a lower ceiling, and which will ultimately weaken our midfield significantly over the course of a season - given that we will almost certainly sell lavia and likely don't need to sell them both? Its a bad trade.

If West Ham pay what we want for JWP, then we will also gain £30m-40m out of the `trade'. 

 

Edited by Chez
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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Chez said:

If West Ham pay what we want for JWP, then we will also gain £30m-40m out of the `trade'. 

 

Okay sure, if West Ham shove silly money and a player at us then fine, but we're pushing for £50M for JWP and i can't see them offering anything like £40M plus a player - sorry didn't realise we're operating in a world where we get exactly what we want for our players 😄. Reality is we're shoving high prices on them and hoping someone meets one of them so we can keep the rest - and my point is that will be Lavia before its JWP. If we do get £40M plus a good and young champ level CM to replace him then its probably worth it - Although still the debate to be had about continuity and consistency.

If we're doing what SR said, and aiming to win the league - we're going to try and keep hold of as many of our best players as we can. Which means as few high value sales as possible, and rebalancing the defence and attack.

Edited by Saint86
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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Saint86 said:

Okay sure, if West Ham shove silly money and a player at us then fine - sorry didn't realise we're operating in a world where we get what we want for our players 😄. Reality is we're shoving high prices on them and hoping someone meets one of them so we can keep the rest - and my point is that will be Lavia before its JWP.

Sure. Lavia is the real gem. I wouldn't have any qualms about selling both CMs if the price offered is good. Every player has a price. Reinvested wisely, say Downes and Cook, our midfield could look pretty decent still at this level. 

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Rebel

Rebel

Posted
Posted

I think people are  severely underestimating how many players are going to leave this summer.  I think its pretty much a forgone conclusion both Lavia and Ward-Prowse are leaving.

A lot of players will want to leave and we will need the money sales bring in to sign new players, pay any debts off (transfers and loans) and fund the club for the next 3 years.

We also need to cut our bloated squad and our wage bill (even with the salary cuts) 

(as an aside JWP was in Winchester Sainsbury's last week and someone asked him where was he was going - and he didn't say nowhere - he said he didn't know yet - which I read as he is going to leave Saints for a premier league club)

If we took Downes on loan for a season with an option to buy as part of a deal for JWP I'd be OK with that.

But I can see JWP ending up a Fulham for about £30M - means he can still live in Shawford/Compton and commute down the M3. I don't think he will be the first choice of any of the bigger clubs - not helped by his form last season and confusion over whether he's an 8 or a 6..  He needs to go somewhere where he will play as an 8 and not a 6 - back to his original and best position. 

We need at least 2 defensive midfielders or 6s - we only really have Lavia and he is off. JWP is really and 8 and he will be off as well.  Alcaraz and Smallbone are 8s really as well  (maybe 10s) as is Stuart Armstrong.

I was hoping for Grimes at a minimum - Downes as well would be great.  

Ampadu as a 6 who can drop back in the CB position - or as a right CB that can move up in to midfield would be a good addition.

 

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goodymatt

goodymatt

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Rebel said:

(as an aside JWP was in Winchester Sainsbury's last week and someone asked him where was he was going - and he didn't say nowhere - he said he didn't know yet - which I read as he is going to leave Saints for a premier league club)

JWP has no reason to speak about his future to strangers but playing devils advocate, not knowing where he is playing next season could also mean that we are still an option? I’m hoping he wouldn’t leave us for a club like Fulham but sadly it looks the most likely option at the moment.

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Wurzel

Wurzel

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Flynn Downes agent has been at Staplewood this week apparently. 
 

So link could be real 

If that's for real and not just speculation he's with the same agency as Livramento and Bree among many many others incl Dewsbury Hall ,  Curtis Jones, Harvey Barnes, Joe Gomez, Tyrone Mings....we could sort out a whole squad with one agent visit 🤣

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SNSUN

SNSUN

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, goodymatt said:

 

IMO his long term injury will put clubs off looking at him as a first choice RB - most will want him as a squad option/future prospect. I look at the Premier League table and struggle to see a club where he will be first choice - Chelsea have James, Newcastle have Tripper - he's either going to have to be content sitting on the bench and playing cup games and the odd league game or staying with us, the team that nurtured him through his injury, and being outright first choice. The fact that we are financially better off following this relegation than the last does make me think we can hold on to some of our better players, as long as, like Carlos, they are happy to stay.

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The Cat

The Cat

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, John B said:

No it is not

 

In most cases you have a fraction of second more in the Championship to react to everything

 

The best sportsmen are the ones who seem to have time to spare to react to the ball .

Exactly. It's like saying batting against County bowlers is the same as batting against Test Match bowlers.

The shots won't be as good in the Championship, strikers will take longer to react in certain situations.

Obviously some of them can kick a football just as hard as Premier League players but it won't be with the same accuracy.

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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, goodymatt said:

JWP has no reason to speak about his future to strangers 

Yeah exactly, whenever you read stuff like that you flat out know its nonsense 😄. Club captain walks into local supermarket, starts declaring to random customers that he's leaving the club... but won't let them know where... just a sly wink wink nudge nudge and a "tata for now". All the while he and his agent keep quiet in the media and he leads the club's preseason media campaign 🙄😄.

And playing devils advocate on that whole theoretical interchange, it would be more likely that he'd say that if he was staying... for the simple reason that if he was off, he wouldn't say anything 🧐.

Edited by Saint86
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Chez

Chez

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Wurzel said:

If that's for real and not just speculation he's with the same agency as Livramento and Bree among many many others incl Dewsbury Hall ,  Curtis Jones, Harvey Barnes, Joe Gomez, Tyrone Mings....we could sort out a whole squad with one agent visit 🤣

the agency also manage Ryan Manning, Leander Dendoncker, Luke Thomas, Ryan Fraser, Choudhury, Ross Barkley, Zian Flemming, Ben Pearson, Phil Jones, Peacock-Farrell, Jack Cork, Jack Colback...

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Verbal

Verbal

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, John B said:

No it is not

 

In most cases you have a fraction of second more in the Championship to react to everything

 

The best sportsmen are the ones who seem to have time to spare to react to the ball .

Because the air is thicker in championship grounds?

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St. Ciervo

St. Ciervo

Posted
Posted

It is too easy to bag on the goalie. I saw ZERO improvements when we switched back to McCarthy. In fact, I saw goals from shit angles far more often. 

Baz will be fine. He will get better. Should we have started him last season? No. Should we make a second mistake and panic sell him or spend a horde of cash on something better? Probably not.

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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, St. Ciervo said:

It is too easy to bag on the goalie. I saw ZERO improvements when we switched back to McCarthy. In fact, I saw goals from shit angles far more often. 

Baz will be fine. He will get better. Should we have started him last season? No. Should we make a second mistake and panic sell him or spend a horde of cash on something better? Probably not.

Agreed. Baz is better than Macca, the decision to drop him once we were all but relegated was farcical as well. I would expect him to be more than fine at this level.

Our defending was horrendous last year.

 

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St. Ciervo

St. Ciervo

Posted
Posted

The only benefit of McCarthy stepping in to hoover it up was that it showed Baz wasn't the problem. Adding on to you, bad defending just makes keepers look indecisive and foolish. 

I am actually excited to see what he can do. His confident ball movement will also be key for this new system. 

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revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, St. Ciervo said:

It is too easy to bag on the goalie. I saw ZERO improvements when we switched back to McCarthy. In fact, I saw goals from shit angles far more often. 

Baz will be fine. He will get better. Should we have started him last season? No. Should we make a second mistake and panic sell him or spend a horde of cash on something better? Probably not.

Using your logic, if I find a worse player than Elynoussi then that would mean Elynoussi is fine.

The fact that McCarthy is probably worse than Bazunu means fuck all.

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pimpin4rizeal

pimpin4rizeal

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Agreed. Baz is better than Macca, the decision to drop him once we were all but relegated was farcical as well. I would expect him to be more than fine at this level.

Our defending was horrendous last year.

 

Based on what ? Bazunu hardly had a good game and is usually like having a hologram in goal everything seems to go streight through him ..

mccarthy at least had one season where he was player of the season or close to (long time ago now ) but I can’t see why anyone would think bazunu is better on last seasons showing ..

I really don’t get our obsession with these young keepers it’s not a expensive position to recruit and would be a lot better off just digging out some experienced keeper like boruc was then to keep messing around with these bazunu and Gunn types .. the last young keeper we had that was any good was probably tim flowers lol 

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, St. Ciervo said:

It is too easy to bag on the goalie. I saw ZERO improvements when we switched back to McCarthy. In fact, I saw goals from shit angles far more often. 

Baz will be fine. He will get better. Should we have started him last season? No. Should we make a second mistake and panic sell him or spend a horde of cash on something better? Probably not.

He is garbage.  Can’t save shit.

He will be a liability again next season.

 

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Based on what ? Bazunu hardly had a good game and is usually like having a hologram in goal everything seems to go streight through him ..

mccarthy at least had one season where he was player of the season or close to (long time ago now ) but I can’t see why anyone would think bazunu is better on last seasons showing ..

I really don’t get our obsession with these young keepers it’s not a expensive position to recruit and would be a lot better off just digging out some experienced keeper like boruc was then to keep messing around with these bazunu and Gunn types .. the last young keeper we had that was any good was probably tim flowers lol 

Even flowers didn’t go straight in as automatic number one. His first few seasons he was behind Shilton and then John Burridge he didn’t establish himself as number one until he’d been with us for 4 years by then he was 23 or 24 IIRC. We could have got Sam Johnstone on a free who would be head and shoulders above anything we’ve got right now. The obsession with young players and thinking about future resale value rather than what they can do now cost us our premier league status. Let’s hope they learn from it

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