Summer Transfer Window 2023

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

20 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I was expecting him to be sold as he will suit a number of teams. He's a good player but we can replace him. 

But can we replace all the scuffed shots and missed open goals? Thats the question

[Chez]

18 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I was expecting him to be sold as he will suit a number of teams. He's a good player but we can replace him. 

Likewise. It felt like he wanted the move last summer and so if that was the case he'll certainly want it this. 

I know may want to keep him and we don't have a lot up front, but we sell now, we get a replacement for the next three years. Keep him and we get one one season to ge promoted and then we have £0m to replace him should we fail.  As always, its all about what we do with the money we get in for him. £15m is a decent amount in the Championship.

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

But can we replace all the scuffed shots and missed open goals? Thats the question

I'm pretty sure Onuachu could handle the scuffed shots bit. Not sure about the open goals.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

30 minutes ago, Chez said:

Likewise. It felt like he wanted the move last summer and so if that was the case he'll certainly want it this. 

I know may want to keep him and we don't have a lot up front, but we sell now, we get a replacement for the next three years. Keep him and we get one one season to ge promoted and then we have £0m to replace him should we fail.  As always, its all about what we do with the money we get in for him. £15m is a decent amount in the Championship.

Out of interest, what made you think he wanted the move last summer? In the interviews I've read, it seems like he has no knowledge of what's going on in his contract whatsoever

[Hodgey]

My understanding is that we wanted rid last summer - ironic really given he was (and still is) clearly our best striker. I think they thought our recruitment geniuses were going to find someone better, plus for some reason Ralf really didn’t fancy him pre-season (and indeed in the first few games)

I’d take him this year and lose him on a free next. I don’t see us spending the £12m or so on anyone better, and that £12m is utterly insignificant if it is the difference in us going up or not. 

[Chez]

14 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Out of interest, what made you think he wanted the move last summer? In the interviews I've read, it seems like he has no knowledge of what's going on in his contract whatsoever

He didn't sign a contract with Saints last summer. Either we didn't offer one, in which case he'd be looking elsewhere, or we didn't offer one to his liking, in which case he'd be looking elsewhere.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

3 minutes ago, Chez said:

He didn't sign a contract with Saints last summer. Either we didn't offer one, in which case he'd be looking elsewhere, or we didn't offer one to his liking, in which case he'd be looking elsewhere.

Well keeping his options open by not signing a new contract is different to wanting out immediately

[HarvSFC]

Our forward play was a lot worse without him at the end of last season, than it was with him. With him we were missing chances, without him, we weren't working those chances. 

He'll be a good player in the Premier League for a team that plays to his strengths. We haven't by making him the main man for a long time now. If he got a partner like Ings again, him and the team he goes to will be laughing for the fee we can demand in the final year on his contract.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

But can we replace all the scuffed shots and missed open goals? Thats the question

He's a support striker. I was told by someone who knows him that he never wanted to lead the line and knew he wasn't very good at it. 

[Lighthouse]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

He's a support striker. I was told by someone who knows him that he never wanted to lead the line and knew he wasn't very good at it. 

TBH, that's a bit of a cop out way of saying he's a bit crap to be a proper striker. Some people used to say the same about Long and Ormerod when they couldn't score in a brothel.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

TBH, that's a bit of a cop out way of saying he's a bit crap to be a proper striker. Some people used to say the same about Long and Ormerod when they couldn't score in a brothel.

He was great providing support for Ings. If we had a decent ings type striker last year I would have played Adams alongside them all day long. 

[Dan Johnson]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

He's a support striker. I was told by someone who knows him that he never wanted to lead the line and knew he wasn't very good at it. 

I rate Che and think he’s a decent player, however the weakest part of his game at prem level is his finishing.

I think the term “support striker” suits him perfectly, his hold up play is exactly what’s needed to take the pressure off the defence at times and he “puts himself about a bit” 

He also has great positional sense which is how he seems to score most of his goals however he’s not a natural finisher.

his game is more suited to the premier league in the late 90s/early 00s and is comparable to the likes of Duncan Ferguson, Heskey, I suspect they all have similar goal ratios, roughly 1 in 5. Good for 7-10 goals a season. 

id keep him personally, I think he’ll be a 20 goal a season striker in the championship where his physical attributes will suit the league better 

 

 

 

[Saint86]

4 hours ago, Hodgey said:

My understanding is that we wanted rid last summer - ironic really given he was (and still is) clearly our best striker. I think they thought our recruitment geniuses were going to find someone better, plus for some reason Ralf really didn’t fancy him pre-season (and indeed in the first few games)

I’d take him this year and lose him on a free next. I don’t see us spending the £12m or so on anyone better, and that £12m is utterly insignificant if it is the difference in us going up or not. 

In all blunt seriousness... His finishing is appalling, and "clearly being our best striker" is not saying much. I like him for his off the ball work and how he leads the line, but if he's not going to sign a new contract we'll likely be forced to sell him.

We got relegated because we had Che Adams, Adam Armstrong, Mara, Tall Paul, and Theo as strikers. The one thing we absolutely needed last summer was a striker and this was a huge failure by the club... It really shouldn't be a challenge to spend £120M+ in a season and have better strikers than that!!

Edited 3 July, 2023 by Saint86

[John B]

3 hours ago, Saint86 said:

In all blunt seriousness... His finishing is appalling, and "clearly being our best striker" is not saying much. I like him for his off the ball work and how he leads the line, but if he's not going to sign a new contract we'll likely be forced to sell him.

We got relegated because we had Che Adams, Adam Armstrong, Mara, Tall Paul, and Theo as strikers. The one thing we absolutely needed last summer was a striker and this was a huge failure by the club... It really shouldn't be a challenge to spend £120M+ in a season and have better strikers than that!!

Very true but I do not think it was easy to get a top striker to play for Southampton not sure we have recruited a decent one in the last ten years except when Koemann was here apart from Ings who was injured.

 

Why do you think that has happened

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, John B said:

Very true but I do not think it was easy to get a top striker to play for Southampton not sure we have recruited a decent one in the last ten years except when Koemann was here apart from Ings who was injured.

 

Why do you think that has happened

Because we won’t pay the money to get better than championship level. Because we gamble on young, hungry and guaranteed improve, the problem is none of them improved. 

[hypochondriac]

I have a feeling we will see a few ins and outs this week. I'm hoping we get Lavia out the door to get us some guaranteed money or I'm going to start getting concerned that we won't be bringing anyone in until the last minute. Hopefully we get Manning in which if we don't sell Tino we need just one cb and that's the defence sorted. 

[Dman]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I have a feeling we will see a few ins and outs this week. I'm hoping we get Lavia out the door to get us some guaranteed money or I'm going to start getting concerned that we won't be bringing anyone in until the last minute. Hopefully we get Manning in which if we don't sell Tino we need just one cb and that's the defence sorted. 

i have to say and maybe very naive on my behalf, but I was expecting us to be a little more in order than we are at the minute. Both ins and outs. Esepcially since we've had longer than anyone else (who'll realistically be a challenger) to prepare for it.

Its hard to plan a squad when you don't know who is going to be around come the start of the season. 

It feels like we need to start issuing a date to players / Agents. Say, if they're not gone by the end of July / first week of August, they're here for the season. I could see alot of these deals running on into late into the window and leaving us either missing targets or having to panic buy. 

[DT]

Liverpool's bid (for Lavia) of £30m is pretty insulting. He's a £50m player and will only get better. Bit like how Van Dyke (once they went more upfront and less Blackpool hotel room) buy is now viewed as a snip, given it totally transformed that club. They are showing little honour in both recognising their illegal approach back then (by a few more millions on the offer) and also evaluating his true worth and what it will do to their midfield. I hope other clubs come in an raise the price. So sad we only got to see him for a bit of one season.

Edited 3 July, 2023 by DT

[Nolan]

14 minutes ago, DT said:

Liverpool's bid (for Lavia) of £30m is pretty insulting. He's a £50m player and will only get better. Bit like how Van Dyke (once they went more upfront and less Blackpool hotel room) buy is now viewed as a snip, given it totally transformed that club. They are showing little honour in both recognising their illegal approach back then (by a few more millions on the offer) and also evaluating his true worth and what it will do to their midfield. I hope other clubs come in an raise the price. So sad we only got to see him for a bit of one season.

Liverpool haven't put in a bid for Lavia.

the reports of £30million are rubbish. Indykalia is a WUM

[hypochondriac]

28 minutes ago, Dman said:

i have to say and maybe very naive on my behalf, but I was expecting us to be a little more in order than we are at the minute. Both ins and outs. Esepcially since we've had longer than anyone else (who'll realistically be a challenger) to prepare for it.

Its hard to plan a squad when you don't know who is going to be around come the start of the season. 

It feels like we need to start issuing a date to players / Agents. Say, if they're not gone by the end of July / first week of August, they're here for the season. I could see alot of these deals running on into late into the window and leaving us either missing targets or having to panic buy. 

I hope that is what they do. I can't really blame the club if there haven't been rivals making sensible bids for our players then we can't be expected to sell them.

[Lighthouse]

10 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

He was great providing support for Ings. If we had a decent ings type striker last year I would have played Adams alongside them all day long. 

I never really bought into that arguement either, all your really saying is that Ings did all the goal scoring, much like Beattie used to. Adams has never really looked decent playing alongside anyone else. He's a hard worker with terrible finishing, at PL level. He's not specialised for some sort of supporting link up role, his weaknesses are just made glaringly obvious when he's relied on for goals.

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

I never really bought into that arguement either, all your really saying is that Ings did all the goal scoring, much like Beattie used to. Adams has never really looked decent playing alongside anyone else. He's a hard worker with terrible finishing, at PL level. He's not specialised for some sort of supporting link up role, his weaknesses are just made glaringly obvious when he's relied on for goals.

Very true.

He's one of those where if he stays I would be ok with it but if he left I would be fine with that as well. 

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I never really bought into that arguement either, all your really saying is that Ings did all the goal scoring, much like Beattie used to. Adams has never really looked decent playing alongside anyone else. He's a hard worker with terrible finishing, at PL level. He's not specialised for some sort of supporting link up role, his weaknesses are just made glaringly obvious when he's relied on for goals.

Will have to agree to disagree then. Personally I think he's worth his place in the team when he isn't the main striker being relied on for goals. Doubt it matters anyway as he is most likely off and will do a reasonable job for one of the teams lower down in the prem. 

[The Curse of St Mary's]

 

 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, The Curse of St Mary's said:

 

 

If true then IMO we shouldn't sell him even if Newcastle bid what we were asking. If we get Manning in we will have the best full backs in the league with Tino, Manning and Larios and Bree (and this new bloke) as backup. If we can persuade Jack Stephens to stay and bring in this bloke from Peterborough then that is the defence sorted early in the window which is a great base to build from. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

21 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I never really bought into that arguement either, all your really saying is that Ings did all the goal scoring, much like Beattie used to. Adams has never really looked decent playing alongside anyone else. He's a hard worker with terrible finishing, at PL level. He's not specialised for some sort of supporting link up role, his weaknesses are just made glaringly obvious when he's relied on for goals.

Spot on .. some people on here trying to make him out like he’s Dennis bergkamp or sth .. 

[mitch01]

Adams would be a fantastic asset for us this season. Worth the risk of losing him for nothing IMO. As someone said above, we were noticeably worse without him in the run-in. He also seems a great fella. Hope he stays.

[Dman]

13 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

If true then IMO we shouldn't sell him even if Newcastle bid what we were asking. If we get Manning in we will have the best full backs in the league with Tino, Manning and Larios and Bree (and this new bloke) as backup. If we can persuade Jack Stephens to stay and bring in this bloke from Peterborough then that is the defence sorted early in the window which is a great base to build from. 

Yep. Response to Newcastle needs to be, £50m (or whatever we value him at) or shut up. 

Their current offers have been insulting, to be honest. 

[Dman]

16 minutes ago, mitch01 said:

Adams would be a fantastic asset for us this season. Worth the risk of losing him for nothing IMO. As someone said above, we were noticeably worse without him in the run-in. He also seems a great fella. Hope he stays.

Not a huge Adams fan, in fact i think he played a big part in us dropping given how poor he is in front of goal. However, I agree I think he'd be fantastic in the championship, but we would need goals around him. If Tella can replicate his scoring record from last season, then we'd be fine with him up top. I think he'd suit Martin's style as well. 

In theory, a front 3 of; 

LW: Armstong

CF: Adams

RW: Tella

Is a front 3 who've proven they can score goals at this level. 

[mitch01]

21 minutes ago, Dman said:

Not a huge Adams fan, in fact i think he played a big part in us dropping given how poor he is in front of goal. However, I agree I think he'd be fantastic in the championship, but we would need goals around him. If Tella can replicate his scoring record from last season, then we'd be fine with him up top. I think he'd suit Martin's style as well. 

In theory, a front 3 of; 

LW: Armstong

CF: Adams

RW: Tella

Is a front 3 who've proven they can score goals at this level. 

Agree. Add to that some combination of Sulemana, Mara, Edozie and Ballard and we'd be well-set, but very hard to tell who will be with us by September at this stage.

[Mr Nimbus]

4 hours ago, Dman said:

Not a huge Adams fan, in fact i think he played a big part in us dropping given how poor he is in front of goal. However, I agree I think he'd be fantastic in the championship, but we would need goals around him. If Tella can replicate his scoring record from last season, then we'd be fine with him up top. I think he'd suit Martin's style as well. 

In theory, a front 3 of; 

LW: Armstong

CF: Adams

RW: Tella

Is a front 3 who've proven they can score goals at this level. 

I'd be happy with that. Maybe Edozie/Mara in for Armstrong.

Of course a lot of our business is determined by who leaves. 

I said in the thread earlier I can see some of our saleable assets actually starting the season with us (probably nor Lavia) and when the PL starts and a middling club starts poorly, a mad deadline day rush will happen and players like JWP, Adams and even Salisu will go then.

I really can't see us selling Tino for anything less than 40 million. Whilst he's not worth it right now, I think that sends out the right message that we won't roll over and have our tummy's tickled.

Edited 3 July, 2023 by Mr Nimbus

[Dman]

Leicester are apparently in talks to sign Callum Doyle 7-10m. Left footed CB, spent the last year on loan at Coventry (from City). Very, very good player at this level. One we should be all over. 

Leicester coming down with us was a disaster really. Pinched the manager we wanted, now going about building a really good championship side with players we should be all over. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

Leicester coming down with us was a disaster really. Pinched the manager we wanted, now going about building a really good championship side with players we should be all over. 

They've got to rebuild a team, and get them to gel. While we have the fighting spirit of the majority of our squad currently still...no...this point really isn't working at all... 🙂

[SNSUN]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I have a feeling we will see a few ins and outs this week. I'm hoping we get Lavia out the door to get us some guaranteed money or I'm going to start getting concerned that we won't be bringing anyone in until the last minute. Hopefully we get Manning in which if we don't sell Tino we need just one cb and that's the defence sorted. 

 Think we'll need more than one CB but it depends who stays. Very likely Salisu, ABK, Lyanco and DCC could all be off leaving us with Bednarek, Stephens and Simeu. Personally I would like one starter and one decent younger CB at the very least. I hope Tino stays though. Newcastle pulling a fast one there.

[SuperSAINT]

12 minutes ago, Dman said:

Leicester are apparently in talks to sign Callum Doyle 7-10m. Left footed CB, spent the last year on loan at Coventry (from City). Very, very good player at this level. One we should be all over. 

Leicester coming down with us was a disaster really. Pinched the manager we wanted, now going about building a really good championship side with players we should be all over. 

Doyle is the absolute kind of signing we should've been making.  

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

 Think we'll need more than one CB but it depends who stays. Very likely Salisu, ABK, Lyanco and DCC could all be off leaving us with Bednarek, Stephens and Simeu. Personally I would like one starter and one decent younger CB at the very least. I hope Tino stays though. Newcastle pulling a fast one there.

Yes but I was talking about the starting 11. I'm happy for Stephens and maybe this Peterborough cb to start the season but you're right we probably need another one as backup. 

[SaintNewForest]

I'm getting quite jealous of Leicester, ngl. 

[Smirking_Saint]

3 hours ago, Dman said:

i have to say and maybe very naive on my behalf, but I was expecting us to be a little more in order than we are at the minute. Both ins and outs. Esepcially since we've had longer than anyone else (who'll realistically be a challenger) to prepare for it.

Its hard to plan a squad when you don't know who is going to be around come the start of the season. 

It feels like we need to start issuing a date to players / Agents. Say, if they're not gone by the end of July / first week of August, they're here for the season. I could see alot of these deals running on into late into the window and leaving us either missing targets or having to panic buy. 

This isn’t how the transfer works though, especially for any lower ranked clubs and even more so for a recently relegated Championship outfit

It appears we are comfortable sticking to our guns, there or there abouts as far as our asking prices are concerned but if you think clubs, us included, just walk into negotiations and pay the first fee without any negotiating then you’re a fool

The window is open for another 2 months, there is absolutely no rush for the likes of Newcastle etc to conclude deals early unless there are competitors bidding, in fact we have far more pressure but realistically it doesn’t do us any favours accepting lower bids

It would be great if we can, like you say, tell them if he isn’t sold by X date then he won’t be sold but unfortunately we don’t hold the strongest hand here

Regardless though Id expect Lavia, JWP, Che, Onuachu and probably atleast 2 CBs to move so we know we need to bring in 2 x CMs, atleast a CB and a Striker and I’d fully expect us to be working on it

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Will have to agree to disagree then. Personally I think he's worth his place in the team when he isn't the main striker being relied on for goals. Doubt it matters anyway as he is most likely off and will do a reasonable job for one of the teams lower down in the prem. 

It’s okay, I’ve just realised I said ‘your’ instead of ‘you’re’, my argument is null and void.

[Smirking_Saint]

3 minutes ago, SaintNewForest said:

I'm getting quite jealous of Leicester, ngl. 

You’re quite jealous of a team that is losing its best players ? Including 1 on a free and most of the others are ageing entities on a high wage ?

If I was them I’d be more jealous of us to be honest

[saint lard]

I’m glad we are not Leicester. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[beatlesaint]

5 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

You’re quite jealous of a team that is losing its best players ? Including 1 on a free and most of the others are ageing entities on a high wage ?

If I was them I’d be more jealous of us to be honest

also their manager is totally unproven in the Championship, i doubt he knows much about it even, whilst we have gone for a proven mid-table manager with experience of barely two years in the league 👍  

[hypochondriac]

I think a new signing or two will do wonders for making us view this as a fresh start and a new challenge. Until we get that it's just the same old bunch of failures. The club need to give us something to be excited about. 

[SaintNewForest]

14 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

You’re quite jealous of a team that is losing its best players ? Including 1 on a free and most of the others are ageing entities on a high wage ?

If I was them I’d be more jealous of us to be honest

 

No, but I am jealous of who they're bringing in. 

 

Doyle, Coady & Winks would all improve us (especially knowing the likes of Salisu, Kotchap & Lavia will be off)

[Dman]

15 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

You’re quite jealous of a team that is losing its best players ? Including 1 on a free and most of the others are ageing entities on a high wage ?

If I was them I’d be more jealous of us to be honest

yeah, because we're absolutely not losing our best players. Are we...

[Smirking_Saint]

9 minutes ago, SaintNewForest said:

 

No, but I am jealous of who they're bringing in. 

 

Doyle, Coady & Winks would all improve us (especially knowing the likes of Salisu, Kotchap & Lavia will be off)

Winks doesnt even improve them massively… I like Coady but there is as much cons as there are pros to that transfer overall, likely high wages for a CB deemed not worthy for a relegation scrap in the prem and who can only reasonably operate in a five

Doyle looks an astute signing though agreed

[Smirking_Saint]

11 minutes ago, Dman said:

yeah, because we're absolutely not losing our best players. Are we...

So what do you suggest ? We roll over and accept low bids to get it out of the way ?

[tdmickey3]

1 minute ago, Smirking_Saint said:

So what do you suggest ? We roll over and accept low bids to get it out of the way ?

We have to play hard ball.

According to Dman almost everything we do is bad and almost everything other clubs do is better.... strange outlook........ think he follows wrong club

[Chez]

2 hours ago, Dman said:

Yep. Response to Newcastle needs to be, £50m (or whatever we value him at) or shut up. 

Their current offers have been insulting, to be honest. 

From the reports (The Athletic), that has been our exact response to Newcastle. Whether it's a brilliant bluff, or SR actually is willing to carry the debt (and add to it this season), we certainly don't seem to be looking to recoup the recent spend quickly to allow us to replace quickly.

Not sure Livramento is worth £50m, but £15m did seem to be taking the piss - hence pretty easy for the club to dismiss. It seems to have risen to £21m. If it gets to £30m, we will see the resolve of the club, all be it the income wouldn't be anywhere near that once Chelsea too their cut. 

[Dman]

4 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

So what do you suggest ? We roll over and accept low bids to get it out of the way ?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. You said you're not jealous of them because they're losing their best players. I'm pointing out that so are we. 

I think there needs to be a fine balance between 'not rolling over' and accepting a figure to speed up the squad overhaul and get an idea of what your squad will look like, so you can work with them pre-season and hit the ground running come the first game.