Summer Transfer Window 2023

[RedWillie]

3 hours ago, manji said:

They are just totting up the loose change in the buckets

Do we get a friendly at their shed as part of the fee?

Edited 2 August, 2023 by RedWillie

[Osvaldorama]

Salisu has had to disable comments on his “thank you saints” post on Instagram 😂

 

Truth hurts does it fella? 

[Badger]

12 minutes ago, Matty's Caddy said:

These lads don’t seem too unhappy….

Hard life isn't it. Do you think they're paid well enough for what they have to go through ?

[Miltonaggro]

46 minutes ago, qwertyell said:

But that's about how much we'll pocket after Chelsea have taken their enormous cut.

Thought that with TL and Chelsea it was a buy-back clause (£37m?), rather than a sell-on fee.

[egg]

Just now, Miltonaggro said:

Thought that with TL and Chelsea it was a buy-back clause (£37m?), rather than a sell-on fee.

Both. Buy back, and a sell on. 

[Miltonaggro]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Both. Buy back, and a sell on. 

Saints are going to want to see £25m clear in that case.  It may mean he stays for this season.  Fingers crossed.

[egg]

Just now, Miltonaggro said:

Saints are going to want to see £25m clear in that case.  It may mean he stays for this season.  Fingers crossed.

Yep. I reckon we'd have sold KWP and kept TL if there were buyers for KWP. As it is, I can't see KWP getting sold giving as an overload of full backs. Something has to give you'd imagine. 

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

Thought i'd do a summary of our transfer dealings so far (sorry 😋) and consider it against the parachute payments and likely financial imapct vs the wage prem situation.

Sales so far (wages are assumed savings compared to prem levels)

Salisu = £15M and assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Orsic = £3M and assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Moi = Assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Theo = Assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Diallo = Assume a nominal £2M fee and £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Willy and Liz = assume £50k/w (2.6M/year) between them.

Assumed transfer subtotal =  £20M

Assumed wage saving per year =  £15.6M

We know Lavia is going to go for minimum £45M and assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Assumed transfer subtotal =  £65M

Assumed wage saving per year =  £18.2M

Likely we see sales of multiple players from the following bracket:

Bednarek - £10M?

DCC - £7M?

Lyanco - _£7M?

ABK - £20M?

Aribo - £5M?

Onuachu - Nominal load fee and wages (assume £50k/w or 2.6M/year)

Adams - 10M?

Djenpo - £7M

Lets assume we bank about another £35M from that lot - Say Adams, Bednarek, DCC, Lyanco, and about £15M in wage savings - including Onuachu).

Assumed transfer subtotal =  £100M

Assumed wage saving per year =  £33.2M

We'll also bank circa £50M in parachute payments in the first year, plus there is the new championship TV deal for which we seem to be quite popular.

So in total, yearly savings of around £185M, spend to date of £12M, which totals out as CIRCA £170M for the year currently. Obviously this ignores balancing the wage bill longer term vs the reducing parachute payments.

Note, this also excludes a relegation wage clause being in most of our players' contracts, whereas i guess(?) i could probably knock off another 20% of remaining wages and still be conservative on that front? Although against this we will have outstanding transfer payments on previous buys i guess.

I can't remember what the predicted shortfall was in predicted as part of relegation? But i would imagine that with the Lavia sale (and assuming medium success in shifting some of the bloat as above) that we should be in a fairly solid spot?

The two other possible sales are JWP  for at least £35M and £100K per week (5.2M/year), and Tino, for whom i guess we'd bank £15M-20M plus wages. But i think the above highlights that we probably do only need to make one major sale from a financial perspective?
 

Decent summary. Basically, selling Lavia and Jwp solves a lot of our financial ills.You never know, maybe we can start paying off that £70m bank loan. We won't get all the £45m for lavia of course as City take a chunk, perhaps of the profit. DCC price seems to be €5m, so a little less in pounds sterling. The parachute is closer to £45m I think than £50m. The new players will also want paying.

[Rebel]

2 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Thought i'd do a summary of our transfer dealings so far (sorry 😋) and consider it against the parachute payments and likely financial imapct vs the wage prem situation.

Sales so far (wages are assumed savings compared to prem levels)

Salisu = £15M and assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Orsic = £3M and assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Moi = Assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Theo = Assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Diallo = Assume a nominal £2M fee and £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Willy and Liz = assume £50k/w (2.6M/year) between them.

Assumed transfer subtotal =  £20M

Assumed wage saving per year =  £15.6M

We know Lavia is going to go for minimum £45M and assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Assumed transfer subtotal =  £65M

Assumed wage saving per year =  £18.2M

Likely we see sales of multiple players from the following bracket:

Bednarek - £10M?

DCC - £7M?

Lyanco - _£7M?

ABK - £20M?

Aribo - £5M?

Onuachu - Nominal load fee and wages (assume £50k/w or 2.6M/year)

Adams - 10M?

Djenpo - £7M

Lets assume we bank about another £35M from that lot - Say Adams, Bednarek, DCC, Lyanco, and about £15M in wage savings - including Onuachu).

Assumed transfer subtotal =  £100M

Assumed wage saving per year =  £33.2M

We'll also bank circa £50M in parachute payments in the first year, plus there is the new championship TV deal for which we seem to be quite popular.

So in total, yearly savings of around £185M, spend to date of £12M, which totals out as CIRCA £170M for the year currently. Obviously this ignores balancing the wage bill longer term vs the reducing parachute payments.

Note, this also excludes a relegation wage clause being in most of our players' contracts, whereas i guess(?) i could probably knock off another 20% of remaining wages and still be conservative on that front? Although against this we will have outstanding transfer payments on previous buys i guess.

I can't remember what the predicted shortfall was in predicted as part of relegation? But i would imagine that with the Lavia sale (and assuming medium success in shifting some of the bloat as above) that we should be in a fairly solid spot?

The two other possible sales are JWP  for at least £35M and £100K per week (5.2M/year), and Tino, for whom i guess we'd bank £15M-20M plus wages. But i think the above highlights that we probably do only need to make one major sale from a financial perspective?
 

Its a good summary but you missed out the money paid to players to leave - or in other words pay-off their contracts.

I'd expect any money made from selling Diallo was used to pay-off the final year of his contract - so I doubt we made much from his sale in anything.  And I 'd say that was probably more true of the Orsic deal as well.

Hopefully we made a bit of money on selling Salisu but the balance is probably closer to £10M than £20M once you figure in the contract pay-offs.

I imagine salary was the reason DCC has gone out on loan rather than a permanent  - but hopefully it means we don't have to pay a % of his salary.

[Nolan]

2 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Thought i'd do a summary of our transfer dealings so far (sorry 😋) and consider it against the parachute payments and likely financial imapct vs the wage prem situation.

Sales so far (wages are assumed savings compared to prem levels)

Salisu = £15M and assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Orsic = £3M and assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Moi = Assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Theo = Assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Diallo = Assume a nominal £2M fee and £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Willy and Liz = assume £50k/w (2.6M/year) between them.

Assumed transfer subtotal =  £20M

Assumed wage saving per year =  £15.6M

We know Lavia is going to go for minimum £45M and assume £50k/w (2.6M/year)

Assumed transfer subtotal =  £65M

Assumed wage saving per year =  £18.2M

Likely we see sales of multiple players from the following bracket:

Bednarek - £10M?

DCC - £7M?

Lyanco - _£7M?

ABK - £20M?

Aribo - £5M?

Onuachu - Nominal load fee and wages (assume £50k/w or 2.6M/year)

Adams - 10M?

Djenpo - £7M

Lets assume we bank about another £35M from that lot - Say Adams, Bednarek, DCC, Lyanco, and about £15M in wage savings - including Onuachu).

Assumed transfer subtotal =  £100M

Assumed wage saving per year =  £33.2M

We'll also bank circa £50M in parachute payments in the first year, plus there is the new championship TV deal for which we seem to be quite popular.

So in total, yearly savings of around £185M, spend to date of £12M, which totals out as CIRCA £170M for the year currently. Obviously this ignores balancing the wage bill longer term vs the reducing parachute payments.

Note, this also excludes a relegation wage clause being in most of our players' contracts, whereas i guess(?) i could probably knock off another 20% of remaining wages and still be conservative on that front? Although against this we will have outstanding transfer payments on previous buys i guess.

I can't remember what the predicted shortfall was in predicted as part of relegation? But i would imagine that with the Lavia sale (and assuming medium success in shifting some of the bloat as above) that we should be in a fairly solid spot?

The two other possible sales are JWP  for at least £35M and £100K per week (5.2M/year), and Tino, for whom i guess we'd bank £15M-20M plus wages. But i think the above highlights that we probably do only need to make one major sale from a financial perspective?
 

The players wage cut was reported as 40%

 

Edited 2 August, 2023 by Nolan

[Mr Brightside]

12 minutes ago, Rebel said:

Its a good summary but you missed out the money paid to players to leave - or in other words pay-off their contracts.

I'd expect any money made from selling Diallo was used to pay-off the final year of his contract - so I doubt we made much from his sale in anything.  And I 'd say that was probably more true of the Orsic deal as well.

Hopefully we made a bit of money on selling Salisu but the balance is probably closer to £10M than £20M once you figure in the contract pay-offs.

I imagine salary was the reason DCC has gone out on loan rather than a permanent  - but hopefully it means we don't have to pay a % of his salary.

Surely when we sell a player our contract with them is terminated, not paid off,  they then have a new one with their new club. Unless we’re forcing them to go I suppose. 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

2 hours ago, goodymatt said:

Think it’s safe to say DCC is gone given he’s pictured here wearing a Lyon tee

Not a great fee, I thought £8m was cheap when we bought him but we have somehow managed to only get half of that back.

It's a loan deal right?

[Master Bates]

2 hours ago, goodymatt said:

Think it’s safe to say DCC is gone given he’s pictured here wearing a Lyon tee

Not a great fee, I thought £8m was cheap when we bought him but we have somehow managed to only get half of that back.

Would have been better than a loan.

 

I was told €5m perm move was agreed but guess things change.

Edited 2 August, 2023 by Master Bates

[hypochondriac]

10 minutes ago, Master Bates said:

Would have been better than a loan.

 

I was told €5m perm move was agreed but guess things change.

Someone else said its an obligation to buy. 

[Master Bates]

Saints now apparently wanting £60m for Lavia

[InvictaSaint]

2 hours ago, goodymatt said:

Also looks like Marseille are due €500k of the fee.

Really shit grammar from a French Twitter (sorry - X) account. Shocking….

[egg]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Someone else said its an obligation to buy. 

Yep. Seems to be €1.5m loan fee with a €3.5m obligation to buy. 

[Master Bates]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Someone else said its an obligation to buy. 

I know that was the proposed deal with Trabzonspor, on loan with obligation to buy and we rejected as wanted to sell. Weird we've agreed the same with Lyon.

[egg]

1 minute ago, Master Bates said:

I know that was the proposed deal with Trabzonspor, on loan with obligation to buy and we rejected as wanted to sell. Weird we've agreed the same with Lyon.

Probably the best we could get. Martin wants his people so we're going to have to take hits here and there or be stuck with players we don't want. There'll be loans, contracts paid up, and cheap deals on quite a few players I'd imagine just to clear the decks. 

[skintsaint]

3 minutes ago, Master Bates said:

I know that was the proposed deal with Trabzonspor, on loan with obligation to buy and we rejected as wanted to sell. Weird we've agreed the same with Lyon.

Maybe they can cover more of his wages than Trabzonspor.

[trousers]

18 minutes ago, Master Bates said:

Saints now apparently wanting £60m for Lavia

Source? 

[FarehamSaintJames]

30 minutes ago, trousers said:

Source? 

Tbf I’d up it by £1m as punishment every time someone buds below asking price.

“Sorry Romeo, let’s see how much they really want you”

[Master Bates]

38 minutes ago, trousers said:

Source? 

Tomorrow's media

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, Master Bates said:

Saints now apparently wanting £60m for Lavia

It's probably the quickest way to get bids up to 50M

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Master Bates said:

Saints now apparently wanting £60m for Lavia

That would be funny. 

Liverpool - We want to sign Lavia, how does £30million sound? 

Saints - £50million. 

Liverpool - How about £30million plus £5million add ons?

Saints - £50million. 

Liverpool - OK fine, how about £35million all up front? 

Saints - £50million.

Liverpool - Oh come on, you haven't moved at all from your original valuation!

Saints - OK. £60million. 

[Hodgey]

1 hour ago, Mr Brightside said:

Surely when we sell a player our contract with them is terminated, not paid off,  they then have a new one with their new club. Unless we’re forcing them to go I suppose. 

Good question - anyone know the answer to this. I’ve read in player biographies that when they leave they get their contract paid off, unless they put in a transfer request - which is why nobody does it. But equally that seems mad ie do players really get effectively two salaries for a couple of years ?, would make it extremely unattractive to sign anyone on a long contract. Think the answer lies somewhere in between where they get a ‘loyalty bonus’ which is maybe a % of their remaining contract ?

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

1 hour ago, Master Bates said:

Saints now apparently wanting £60m for Lavia

Must have got a sniff that Chelsea have their cheque book out?

[Smirking_Saint]

48 minutes ago, Hodgey said:

Good question - anyone know the answer to this. I’ve read in player biographies that when they leave they get their contract paid off, unless they put in a transfer request - which is why nobody does it. But equally that seems mad ie do players really get effectively two salaries for a couple of years ?, would make it extremely unattractive to sign anyone on a long contract. Think the answer lies somewhere in between where they get a ‘loyalty bonus’ which is maybe a % of their remaining contract ?

I do.. and it can be complicated, but in theory no, the club will not have to pay off the remainder of the contract, unless it is specified to do so… for instance if we told Diallo to leave, and he could only find a club that offered him 50% part of the negotiation could be that he requests we pay his remaining term etc

Generally though, the club is only liable for signing on fees or loyalty fees negotiated at the beginning of the contracts as they tend to be spread over the contracted period and the players tend to get these UNLESS they hand in a transfer request.. lotalty fees tend to be paid after a certain amount of years, so, in Mbappes case if he got to the 2nd year of his 3 year term etc

But in answer to your question no, the selling club generally isn’t liable for the rest of a contract if the player is transferred early into the term of said contract

[John Boy Saint]

Happened to be driving home late Tuesday  night and listening to 5 Live - they had the 72 plus football show on and were talking to Adam Blackmore about Saints, he said the word from the upper floors of St Mary’s was that we are not going to bend to silly offers 

[hypochondriac]

Random thought but have all the professional footballers been on courses lately about how to write soppy and disingenuous goodbye messages on social media? I don't remember seeing so many but I'd rather they said nothing to be honest as couldn't care less once they've gone. The only one I ever cared about was Lambert because he was going to his boyhood club. 

[Chez]

2 hours ago, John Boy Saint said:

Happened to be driving home late Tuesday  night and listening to 5 Live - they had the 72 plus football show on and were talking to Adam Blackmore about Saints, he said the word from the upper floors of St Mary’s was that we are not going to bend to silly offers 

Must of taken all of Blackmore's journalistic talents to unearth that nugget.

[Sarisbury Saint]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

Must of taken all of Blackmore's journalistic talents to unearth that nugget.

He must be in the circle of trust.

[david in sweden]

8 hours ago, Master Bates said:

Saints now apparently wanting £60m for Lavia

only 60 million ?...I thought we weren't going to sell players on the cheap...

[dankiz15]

Ok, we haven't seen a lot of movement this window as yet, but if we can get off to a flyer with our best possible 11, inc Lavia , JWP etc, I will take it all day long! Feeling quietly enthused about the set up now, no word from RA which is a blessing, one man. JW, seemingly making the decisions and being transparent in a good way ( These are our prices, if you don't like it, look elsewhere approach) and a manager who at least believes in his method of football. Add to that, the players who will be staying  seem to be buying into that methodology, I feel more positive than I have done in years. Tomorrow will be a test of that positivity. We definitely need a poacher even if Arma does start finding the net, we will need a replacement for JWP, Lavia covered by WS and to a certain extent CA I would suggest. Martin will inevitably get replacements in who he feels he can work with so another positive. Long way to go and there will undoubtedly be curve balls before end of window, but can't remember looking forward to a season more. 

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, Master Bates said:

Tomorrow's media

The Independent claim Man U have joined the party....

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/romeo-lavia-liverpool-transfer-man-utd-b2386778.html

Quote

Manchester United are considering trying to trump Liverpool for Romeo Laviaas Jurgen Klopp's bid for the Southampton teenager falters, in a wider race that has become one of the main drivers of the inflated 2023 summer market.

 

[Charlie Wayman]

4 hours ago, Chez said:

Must of taken all of Blackmore's journalistic talents to unearth that nugget.

I have a different view of Adam Blackmore since his candid revelations of his lifelong mental health issues in a recent radio interview.

In this case it was probably only an off he cuff mark like the ones we all make in a generalised conversation. It didn't mean he just found out that day, just something that he had known about for a while as part of a general chat about SFC.

[le_tiss]

53 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The Independent claim Man U have joined the party....

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/romeo-lavia-liverpool-transfer-man-utd-b2386778.html

 

to Man Utd and their fans

[Chewy]

I guess I don’t really care that much so long as we get the most cash possible … but it would give me a warmer feeling if he went to United than Liverpool - not gonna lie.

[Dusic]

RM very clear when asked this morning: we need to move players out before we will bring any in due to the squad size.

Imagine no chance of a striker until either or both of Adams/Onuachu go and the same at CB, we have 4 senior CBs plus Charles on the books.

[Sunglasses Ron]

2 hours ago, dankiz15 said:

can't remember looking forward to a season more. 

That’s the spirit, let’s hope the positivity remains long after 20:01 tomorrow!

[Saint Fan CaM]

2 hours ago, dankiz15 said:

Ok, we haven't seen a lot of movement this window as yet, but if we can get off to a flyer with our best possible 11, inc Lavia , JWP etc, I will take it all day long! Feeling quietly enthused about the set up now, no word from RA which is a blessing, one man. JW, seemingly making the decisions and being transparent in a good way ( These are our prices, if you don't like it, look elsewhere approach) and a manager who at least believes in his method of football. Add to that, the players who will be staying  seem to be buying into that methodology, I feel more positive than I have done in years. Tomorrow will be a test of that positivity. We definitely need a poacher even if Arma does start finding the net, we will need a replacement for JWP, Lavia covered by WS and to a certain extent CA I would suggest. Martin will inevitably get replacements in who he feels he can work with so another positive. Long way to go and there will undoubtedly be curve balls before end of window, but can't remember looking forward to a season more. 

I agree with and applaud your positive outlook. Unfortunately mine is tempered by the fact that we’ve yet to see any improvement in our ability to score goals. Until that changes we’ll find it difficult to win games despite high possession stats and pretty passages of football. We’ve got players that can score - have we got the system and nouse to get them firing?

I predict that 3 games into the season without a win or draw will see fans support start to turn quickly away from Martin and his system - tolerance levels following a terrible last season and relegation will be at a very tangible low. Let’s hope we see a marked improvement tomorrow evening because a win and three points would be a significant morale boost and a sign that actually Martin has improved the squad since last seasons defeat to SW.

COYS!

[Give it to Ron]

20 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I agree with and applaud your positive outlook. Unfortunately mine is tempered by the fact that we’ve yet to see any improvement in our ability to score goals. Until that changes we’ll find it difficult to win games despite high possession stats and pretty passages of football. We’ve got players that can score - have we got the system and nouse to get them firing?

I predict that 3 games into the season without a win or draw will see fans support start to turn quickly away from Martin and his system - tolerance levels following a terrible last season and relegation will be at a very tangible low. Let’s hope we see a marked improvement tomorrow evening because a win and three points would be a significant morale boost and a sign that actually Martin has improved the squad since last seasons defeat to SW.

COYS!

Except we scored 4 v Reading and 2 v Bournemouth Prem team.

[revolution saint]

39 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

That’s the spirit, let’s hope the positivity remains long after 20:01 tomorrow!

 

3 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Except we scored 4 v Reading and 2 v Bournemouth Prem team.

I agree with the two Ronnies.

[Smirking_Saint]

30 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I agree with and applaud your positive outlook. Unfortunately mine is tempered by the fact that we’ve yet to see any improvement in our ability to score goals. Until that changes we’ll find it difficult to win games despite high possession stats and pretty passages of football. We’ve got players that can score - have we got the system and nouse to get them firing?

I predict that 3 games into the season without a win or draw will see fans support start to turn quickly away from Martin and his system - tolerance levels following a terrible last season and relegation will be at a very tangible low. Let’s hope we see a marked improvement tomorrow evening because a win and three points would be a significant morale boost and a sign that actually Martin has improved the squad since last seasons defeat to SW.

COYS!

I can see us beating SW tomorrow to be honest, by all accounts they are an absolute mess at the moment, and I think that early win gets us off the mark

I think it’ll be a bit scrappy but I think in the end Arma will get 1 or 2

[Crouchie's Lawyer]

 

Tino apparently not in the squad tomorrow night...

 

[Give it to Ron]

1 minute ago, Crouchie's Lawyer said:

 

Tino apparently not in the squad tomorrow night...

 

Probably injured there was an audible gasp when he got tackled and limped for a while.

Its why I think we should take the Saudis money soon it’s a risk keeping him.

[SuperSAINT]

2 minutes ago, Crouchie's Lawyer said:

 

Tino apparently not in the squad tomorrow night...

 

[The Curse of St Mary's]

5 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Martin said mara and Sulemana the only ones injured so we have to assume the worst with this if the report is true. 

[macca155]

Tino and Lavia are probably the most likely transfers. We knew they wouldn't be with us long when they were bought.

Clubs simply cannot hold on to that much talent in the Championship. I also think Tino looks fragile, probably sensible to cash in.

The club just need to rip the plaster off and get it done. Bring in some money and slim the squad down.

Was always going to hurt, no point in prolonging it.

[SuperSAINT]

10 minutes ago, The Curse of St Mary's said:

Martin said mara and Sulemana the only ones injured so we have to assume the worst with this if the report is true. 

Completely. I would LOVE him to stay but have fully expected Newcastle to land him. Eddie AND Ashworth both love him & they DO have to money despite what they say.